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Are bindings getting worse?

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quattro179
Posts: 464 - Karma: 54
This is what it seems like to me. The old p series is gone, now the fks's are gone. We now have px's which are okay but so many people I know have broken them. Some of the old solly's were super burly but now we have stuff like the z12s and even the new sth's use the same toe piece I believe. Maybe the jesters will prove to be good but they are also hella expensive.

So why isn't stuff getting better. It makes no sense.

Anyone think that someone will try to restart an old style binding like full tilt did with boots.

I know good bindings still exist, but it should be alot harder to find bad quality bindings
Nov 18 2007 10:15PM
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*Koolaid*
Posts: 1242 - Karma: 16

something ive noticed as well...Px's are ok, but nothing spectacular...Im really disappointed with solly bindings...My buddy went thru the new ones in like two runs...The Z series that is

Nov 18 2007 10:19PM
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Rippy087
Posts: 666 - Karma: 12
yea i noticed the same thing, so i went with some fks 155's
Nov 18 2007 10:26PM
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CTD
Posts: 6300 - Karma: 348
i couldnt agree more. ive noticed this with alot of hardware. the only binding id feel comfortable riding currently are the new Jesters/dukes, and even those sit pretty tall on the ski. even the newer style FKSs have reverted to single pivot toes, which are pretty archaic compared to some of the other toes that theyve ran with that heel. i think a big part of the problem, is the disregard of ski feel. park/ freeride skis are really the only ones left without any kind of binding interface (and should remain that way), and the bindings that cater to these skis focus more on petty things like fat brakes and wide screw patterns. since we dont ask for things like improved energy transfer and ski flex (like customers used to desire), good riding bindings are being replaced with units that ski much more poorly, but cater to some of these reletively unimportant selling points. also, the new PX is worlds cheaper to produce than the pivot. this profit drive has eaten out classics in favor of lower performance money-makers

i havent purchased new bindings since 2004, when i bought my last set of pivots. from there on out, ive been hunting down and restoring/rebuilding various models of old turn table bindings. since i have been riding these oldschool clamps, every time i step into a pair of newer bindings, im blown away at how much they suck in comparison.
Nov 18 2007 10:35PM
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skiP.E.I.
Posts: 7821 - Karma: 21,850
my little brother's brakes on his z12s broke first run down my lawn on a TINY jump
Nov 18 2007 10:43PM
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BigJew
Posts: 6974 - Karma: 79
I completely agree. Salomons have sucked since they got rid of the 997, with exception to the 916. Look/Rossi had it all, with the p12/14 for weaker skiers, and the FKS/P18 for people who require higher dins. Now all they've got is the PX, which I've broken 3 pairs and the higher din PX which I still don't know if I could trust. Marker appears to be stepping their game up with the jester, but when was the last time maker made a decent binding?
Nov 18 2007 10:43PM
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=nick=
Posts: 10471 - Karma: 2,182
all i ski now are pivots and fks, but mostly fks
Nov 18 2007 10:47PM
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titsLOL
Posts: 7485 - Karma: 396
px's are not ok. they are so obnoxious. It's like they were trying to see how much plastic they could use without the pressure of the springs making them explode. the sth bindings and new markers look dope however. and word on da streetz is that fks are gonna come back, if they dont rossi/look deserve to go out of business.
Nov 18 2007 10:50PM
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*Koolaid*
Posts: 1242 - Karma: 16

well they are for me, but like i said, they are OK, nothing spectacular. meaning ive never broken a pair or encountered any problems with them, but have heard about alot of people that have....I would def use older style turntables if i could find some for a decent price...

Nov 18 2007 10:54PM
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MrPantyDropper
Posts: 5016 - Karma: 65
personally I like the new px heel better than the older pivot...the pivot would pre release on me..the px feels more solid and gives that solid locked in feel when you step in...pivots feel kind of mushy...

You still have the Mojo 15s, Jesters, and the Solly STH(steel toe and heel), so im guessing its a different toe piece than the z.
Nov 18 2007 10:55PM
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RussellK141
Posts: 810 - Karma: 63
i got some racestock p12's for this year which i hope will hold up pretty well... the new px just look big and bulky in an unnecessary sort of way. I dont understand the need for the bindings to sit so high off the ski.
Nov 18 2007 11:02PM
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yeahitsdave
Posts: 1315 - Karma: 10
the sth12 has the same toe piece as the z series, the sth16 has a 916 toe piece with some plastic thrown in. the piece that attaches the toe piece to the ski on the 16 is made of lead, its fucking bombproof
Nov 18 2007 11:03PM
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MrPantyDropper
Posts: 5016 - Karma: 65
i guess im wrong then...either way I will never ski on a solly binder.
Nov 18 2007 11:05PM
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bigwhite.steeze
Posts: 8227 - Karma: 1,030
but 4frnt deadbolts are consistantly amazing.
Nov 18 2007 11:09PM
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freezed
Posts: 12973 - Karma: 500
yeah there were pretty substantial rumors that the FKS system is coming back. I really hope that's true.
Nov 18 2007 11:15PM
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titsLOL
Posts: 7485 - Karma: 396
I just cant stand that forward pressure system. It is a pain in the ass to adjust and when they got old and have a lot of play they stop holding pressure well. it makes so much more sense to be able to adjust the pressure with the boot clicked in so you don't have to guess and check.
Nov 18 2007 11:22PM
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CTD
Posts: 6300 - Karma: 348
oh yea, that too. worst system ever. the old pivots were so much easier to do, and the wormscrew mech is way burlier.


oh, anf BTW, STH stands for Steel Track Heel, not toe and heel.
Nov 19 2007 12:51AM
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skinnylove
Posts: 6807 - Karma: 167
I just bought some P12 Racing Series (fks style) so I'm stoked. But I do agree, the PX's have so much uneeded plastic. And hopefully the rumors about fks making a come back are true :)
Nov 19 2007 12:57AM
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hollygrove
Posts: 7845 - Karma: 93
Not very many peopel recognize the bomb-proofness of the Mojo 15.
Nov 19 2007 1:09AM
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-Kieran-
Posts: 1009 - Karma: 12
how about the new maker jesters
Nov 19 2007 1:28AM
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Silence
Posts: 16030 - Karma: 150
assuming they are pretty durable, but not many people have given them a full workout yet, so time will tell.
Nov 19 2007 1:35AM
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BrownEyeIn
Posts: 878 - Karma: 457
man, they arent. theres more plastic on your binding than the px series. the only reason they havent broke on you is because your like 130 pounds
Nov 19 2007 1:36AM
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Baker
Posts: 1615 - Karma: 18
no, the sth16 has a 914 toe thats been beefed up. The race stock 916s have a way burlier toe piece, its just a solid chunk of metal.
Nov 19 2007 1:47AM
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zerospinskier
Posts: 4867 - Karma: 350
Fks are gone?
Nov 19 2007 2:58AM
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titsLOL
Posts: 7485 - Karma: 396
werd, i've got some of the fischer x17s pumped to try them out since all i've ridden really is look/rossi pivots.
Nov 19 2007 4:17AM
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buchanan.
Posts: 1911 - Karma: 156
nope, Steel Track Housing
Nov 19 2007 5:09AM
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Silence
Posts: 16030 - Karma: 150
^ thats on the money.

Seems a pretty bomber binding either way..will be interesting to hear some durability reports after a few months of people skiing with them..same with the new marker clamps
Nov 19 2007 5:15AM
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dave44
Posts: 11052 - Karma: 113
It seems that manufacturers are making lighter bindings because the average market who don't know much would probably much rather a light bindings than a durable one. It's easy to market a lighter binding, like, weren't the Z-series advertised to be 15% lighter than other bindings or something? Manufacturers sacrifice durability in order to have a lighter binding, and I think that's where the problem is arising. Because one binding is so light, other manufacturers may feel like they need to compete and make lighter ones.


Nov 19 2007 5:58AM
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emopoppins
Posts: 3996 - Karma: 269
the difference between the px series and the fks isn't that much. so if thats the argument for getting rid of it, along with money thats just stupid. i prefer durability over anything, and i still broke my fks' in one year at the end of the season last year.

(i hope they bring back the fks style bindings)
Nov 19 2007 10:09AM
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jhackbeez
Posts: 2136 - Karma: 258
im pretty sure the reason they stopped making the fks bindings is because there was no demand for them.  i doubt that rossignol knew that a ton of freestyle park skiers would like them.  they were made for racing, and racing isnt as popular as it used to be.  thats just my opinion
Nov 19 2007 12:00PM
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NoTeefa
Posts: 9566 - Karma: 129
they emphasize safety these days, which means you pop out easier, so then you crank the DIN way high, and then instead of popping out you just break the bindings
Nov 19 2007 12:04PM
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quattro179
Posts: 464 - Karma: 54
So what this thread tells me is that there is a market for tough bindings, and a bit of a lack of tough bindings on the market. The people that have been relying on old style bindings for years will eventually run out of bindings and have to get something newer. So why doesn't a company make or keep making something to cater to this market?
Nov 19 2007 12:08PM
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quattro179
Posts: 464 - Karma: 54
^That retails for less than $300
Nov 19 2007 12:10PM
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bigwhite.steeze
Posts: 8227 - Karma: 1,030
have you ever ridden a pair? no...than i woudlnt comment
Nov 19 2007 12:13PM
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quattro179
Posts: 464 - Karma: 54
I mean durability not DIN. I would be completely satisfied with 12 din bindings that were bombproof because im not that big.

You might have a higher chance of breaking bindings on a higher din but you will also probably break your knees. That is the riders fault for setting them, not the company for making high quality stuff for good skiers. The rider would be respnsible for creating an "unsafe" situation
Nov 19 2007 12:14PM
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
That's what they said this time last year too. If WC racers are still using PX style this year, then it's bullshit. Again.
Nov 19 2007 12:14PM
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Enzo
Posts: 758 - Karma: 14
There is a market for tough bindings, but there is not a lack of tough bindings on the market. Rossi and Look have the px18 and px15's. Salomon has the 916 and 920's. markers have a 30 din race bindings, although it is closer to a 15 din binding....

To continue making fks bindings is economically impractical. They would need an entire set of molds and machinery to make a binding that 2% of the market will buy. Also, the lack of an interchangeable brake is also a negative to it. By making a beefed up race stock px, which is just a hunk of metal (heavier than a 916), with a wormscrew adjustments, interchangeable brakes, it pretty much has all the benefits of both worlds. There is also a wider screw pattern which helps with rip outs.
Nov 19 2007 12:17PM
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Enzo
Posts: 758 - Karma: 14
Its also because the px is a better race binding
Nov 19 2007 12:18PM
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NoTeefa
Posts: 9566 - Karma: 129
bingo, the whole reason they stopped making the FKS series was because the molds wouldn't work anymore
Nov 19 2007 12:29PM
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lyndon
Posts: 7266 - Karma: 128
Exactly. Alot of people are freaking out because they are gone, but in all actuality, there are still TONNES of FKS out there, in new condition. Its the large shops that have sold out, the smaller race shops are most likely to have them in stock.
Nov 19 2007 3:36PM
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lyndon
Posts: 7266 - Karma: 128
But on the topic, I find less and less metal is being used. I would think that now, they are making bindigs less durrable so people will buy more of them. I still see people using the old S900's and Zr's from the 80's, just because they are so burly.
Nov 19 2007 3:41PM
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P-JO
Posts: 6853 - Karma: 75
I just got the Rossi Axial 2 150's.  Seem pretty sweet, all metal, good looking binding.  Downside is they're kinda heavy, and I haven't ridden them yet so we'll see.  I think this is the binding that replaced the FKS.  People should check them out.
Nov 19 2007 3:54PM
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rocktheLPs
Posts: 2095 - Karma: 14
some of the new px's have the same toe as fks155/180. and i thought STH stood for steel tech housing? i saw some of the sth's saturday and it looked like one had an old s800 series toe. burly? doesnt look it
Nov 19 2007 4:35PM
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wils.
Posts: 2012 - Karma: 48
THE REASON is

the more it cost less to make the more they make
Nov 19 2007 4:52PM
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*rkp*
Posts: 8198 - Karma: 257
yeah  i just proformed a pair. really stoked on it!
Nov 19 2007 4:58PM
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quattro179
Posts: 464 - Karma: 54
I didnt know a lot of that stuff which makes this all make a lot more sense. But still i think bindings in general are going the wrong way. Why would people want heavier bindings that take up more space on the ski. There has to be someone smart enough to make durable, moderate weight bindings that are affordable and feasible to produce. But maybe that is impossible.

Seemed like the p series covered it but maybe i am wrong.
Nov 19 2007 5:20PM
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Enzo
Posts: 758 - Karma: 14
Because for racing, binding weight really does not matter much. You also have take into account that the brakes on the fks could not be easily switched if you broke it. think of how many broken brakes you have gone through.

as for consumer bindings, plastics and polymers are getting stronger. The reason why they couldnt make bindings out of plastic in the 80's was because they simply did not have plastic strong enough. For most people, a px12 is prefectly fine. They function well and are light.

the p series had a weird release at awkward angles. Basically, if you fell wrong in a specific way, the binding would not release easily. The p series was also heavier than the px's. The p series also retailed for higher than the px's. Therefore, as to your reasoning, the px's were a better replacement for the p series.
Nov 19 2007 6:18PM
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buchanan.
Posts: 1911 - Karma: 156
yeah, is the jester toe piece completly plastic? or does it just look like it?
Nov 19 2007 6:52PM
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lyndon
Posts: 7266 - Karma: 128
Oh jeez, I can hardly remember. Im pretty sure there was a bit, but besides that, the Jesters were super burly.
Nov 19 2007 6:59PM
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