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So this kid in my english class

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skithedirt
Posts: 1759 - Karma: 382

we were supposed to wirte a paper on patriotism and today we read them all in class and im in honors english so we have a lot of nerdy kids so he says that after 9/11 we had "Too much patriotism" and thats why we went to war with iraq and we should get out of there now.

SO me being the extremely conservative person that i am stands up and questions this kid about how dumb and opinionated his paper was and why he thought of these facts and my friend sitting next to me who is also conservative just starts tearing this kid apart it was hilarious

What are your thoughts ns are you liberal or conservative and what are your thoughts on the war??

DEBATE

Nov 14 2007 9:15PM
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IcePointa
Posts: 1879 - Karma: 19
Lol yea, we needed to "check on Iraq".

Why didn't "Horney Clinton" (lol)  go to war in Iraq? Cause he's not a moron that twists intel to fit his agenda.

"There was a fucking terrorist attack."

Lol, you have just exposed yourself as one of the 65% of Americans that believed there was a link between 911 and Iraq. I feel sorry for you.

"My dad showed me a video last night of an A-10 pilot taking down 4 terrorists two miles above, and to tell you the truth it was very disturbing. Whoever doesn't appreciate what the troops are doing for you need to rot in hell."

So our soldiers had to kill some people from 2 miles away? Doesn't exactly sound heroic.

I feel bad for the troops. I'd say most were duped into joining or were poor enough that he monetary incentive was all they could hope for.
Nov 15 2007 6:29PM
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IcePointa
Posts: 1879 - Karma: 19
Lol, that about sums it up.
Nov 15 2007 6:30PM
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Lax_Bro40
Posts: 5166 - Karma: 18
wow you truely are a fucking douchebag.  just because we kill two terrorists from 2 miles away doesnt mean thats how everything is fought.  We have kids on hte ground running from street to street trying to dogdge bullets. i dont see your pussy ass over there so why dont you shut the fuck up.  those guys over there are the reason you can say what u just said and criticize our government.  And big deal we shoot them from far away.. its so OUR children, father, son, uncle what have you can come home safe and un harmed.  you truely are a fucking heartless fuck.  I hope you get hit by a car saying what our troops arent doing is heroic.  You dont know shit as of what they go through day to day.  You wouldnt last 5 min doing what they do without pissing your pants and i bet in those 5 mins over there you would change ur mind about ur previous statement.  You dont realize how much i hate you right now
Nov 15 2007 6:36PM
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IcePointa
Posts: 1879 - Karma: 19
"just because we kill two terrorists from 2 miles away doesnt mean thats how everything is fought."

I was merely stating that her statement didn't make any sense. Why would you use the example of american troops in a plane killing Iraqis with handguns on the ground as an example of troop heroism?

"We have kids on hte ground running from street to street trying to dogdge bullets."

Yea there are kids out there that our government is exploiting. Sucks. You honestly see a good reason for them to be over there doing that?

"i dont see your pussy ass over there so why dont you shut the fuck up."

Why am I a pussy for not fighting in a war that I hate everything about? That would be fucking STUPID. Think before you type, it helps you not look like a retard.

"those guys over there are the reason you can say what u just said and criticize our government."

Are you suggesting that the troops in Iraq are protecting my freedom of speech? Like Iraq was going to invade the US and ensalve us all? Lol, WTF. Everything you have said is retarded or makes no point at all.

"You dont realize how much i hate you right now"

Lol, I'm sorry that you have an issue with cause-effect relationships and reasoning.
Nov 15 2007 6:46PM
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Lax_Bro40
Posts: 5166 - Karma: 18
ur just an ungrateful fuck. get on my level bitch!
Nov 15 2007 7:10PM
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comeatmebro
Posts: 10720 - Karma: 66
George bush is the most manipulative, lying, piece of shit there is. I'm sorry, but he is a waste of life as far as I'm concerned. He completely twisted all of the intel we got about WMD's. He knew there were none over there, but he went to Iraq and Afghanistan for oil. The WMD's were just an excuse, now guess what the business his whole family is involved in is prospering so greatly? Coincidence, I think not. And to whoever said he is doing what Clinton was too afraid to do, are you kidding me? Maybe Clinton wasn't quite as mentally challenged, and knew there were no WMD's and had no intentions of going over there for totally unrelated reasons. He knew that there would be no way he would find them, GW knew this too, but he still wanted the oil prices to skyrocket etc. Fuck George Bust, I could go on forever about that fucking assclown.
Nov 15 2007 7:32PM
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Shpadoinkle
Posts: 10437 - Karma: 84
What should we have done? Kick it oldskool? HIROSHIMA! WHOOT WHOOT!

Bush didn't "twist" intel. Where do you come up with this?

9/11 was not linked with Iraq? You think I'm like every other American? I believe Al Qaeda has a major role in that. I could be wrong.

You try killing someone some time. You have to be nuts. I have seen 3 of my friends lives change. Thank you.

You know they didn't have to go over, right? You can do any kind of job in the Armed Forces to get paid and get free college. Going into the Armed Forces is a poor mans job? Last time I heard we weren't having a draft.
Nov 15 2007 7:35PM
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*monsterskier*
Posts: 2671 - Karma: 61
wat's conservative and liberal mean?
Nov 15 2007 7:37PM
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user098123
Posts: 6072 - Karma: 18
Aside from the huge arguments about who is right and wrong about the war in Iraq...

Do you not find any value in the fact the one of the worlds most prominent Dictators was stripped from power? I realize the situation in Iraq now isn't great, I'm just curious if you guys have the ability to find anything good about the war, or if you just hate it to jump on the bandwagon.
Nov 15 2007 7:42PM
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Static
Posts: 8553 - Karma: 4,089
don't worry, get stoned.
Nov 15 2007 7:43PM
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solitaryman
Posts: 3578 - Karma: 123
i am suprised that coke head hasn't been assasinated yet.
Nov 15 2007 8:11PM
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IcePointa
Posts: 1879 - Karma: 19

"What should we have done? Kick it oldskool? HIROSHIMA! WHOOT WHOOT!"

Oh my god I love it. The only option you can see other than invading Iraq is to have nuked it.
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"Bush didn't 'twist' intel. Where do you come up with this?"

....really? REALLLY?  You can cry all you want, there was no good evidence that Iraq had a WMD program, and George Bush decided to label it "the most imminent threat to our nation", and decided to start a war about it. Good job ignoring weapons inspectors. What a great threat it turned out to be....

Despite evidence of Saddam’s continued ambition to acquire nuclear weapons, to date we have not uncovered evidence that Iraq undertook significant post-1998 steps to actually build nuclear weapons or produce fissile material. [Iraq Survey Group Interim Progress Report, 10/2/03]

“My summary view, based on what I’ve seen, is we’re very unlikely to find large stockpiles of weapons. … I don’t think they exist.” [Former U.N. inspector David Kay, 1/26/04]

“The ISG has not found evidence that Saddam possessed WMD stocks in 2003.” [Iraq Survey Group Report, 10/7/04]

Then, BUSH ADMITS THAT IRAQ HAD NO WMD

BUSH: "The chief weapons inspector, Charles Duelfer, has now issued a comprehensive report that confirms the earlier conclusion of David Kay that Iraq did not have the weapons that our intelligence believed were there."

Lol, there was NEVER any descent evidence that they had a weapons program. LIES. FALSE MOTIVES.

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"9/11 was not linked with Iraq? You think I'm like every other American? I believe Al Qaeda has a major role in that. I could be wrong."

Was Al Qaeda involved in Iraq in any way? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

-----------------------------------------

"You try killing someone some time. You have to be nuts. I have seen 3 of my friends lives change. Thank you."

I'd rather not. Reason #1 to not join the military = The desire to not be a government hitman. What were they thinking when they signed up? Oh yea, prob blind patriotism and $$.

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"You know they didn't have to go over, right? You can do any kind of job in the Armed Forces to get paid and get free college. Going into the Armed Forces is a poor mans job? Last time I heard we weren't having a draft."

Yea, if you're actually intelligent you might find a nice desk job, but most recruits get shipped off to do the dirty work. The fact that it is a poor man's job is the REASON we aren't having a draft. There are people poor and undereducated enough (or misled) to actually sign up for the military. Works for me.

Nov 15 2007 8:31PM
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GUZ
Posts: 1371 - Karma: 255
except doritos
Nov 15 2007 8:37PM
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Shpadoinkle
Posts: 10437 - Karma: 84

You can't be serious that you thought I was. Sarcasm is a bitch, aint it?
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No good evidence? They were fucking right there! But it is possible to get rid of them, and they did just that because they knew there was a problem.

Every country has a weapons program.
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The reason why we went into Iraq is because of WMD's and Saddam. Found no WMD'S, but killed Saddam. So what if we went in to browse? But hey! We did find the main man with the main trigger finger, and by that I mean ruler.
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You don't have the kajones to sign up so don't give me that blind patriotism and $$ bull.
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You are a joke, and not very American. Period.



Nov 15 2007 8:53PM
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IcePointa
Posts: 1879 - Karma: 19

DING DING! Guess that means America is just going to have to take over the world, right?

You're saying the same shit over and over. Why don't you go ahead and sign up for the military and get ready for our Iranian invasion?

"Like omg, you must not have testicles cause you don't murder people on governement orders." Hopeless.

Nov 15 2007 9:19PM
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Yauch
Posts: 1685 - Karma: 62
what the fuck is your problem you asshole

icepointa knows what hes talking about, your just being an emotional bitch

ive met two parents who lost their 20 year old daughter in iraq and i felt terrible for them, they were destroyed like you cant believe

but that doesnt mean im gonna bullshit myself and say she died for a worthy cause

your calling everybody a pussy who doesnt want to go to war? get a fucking life man.
Nov 15 2007 9:42PM
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newschooler7
Posts: 2253 - Karma: 21
Yea I'm in the same spot as you. anything extreme on either side in that sense is guaranteed to piss a lot of people off.
Nov 15 2007 9:54PM
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GreekAR6
Posts: 527 - Karma: 11
Thank you for making an excellent point that everyone else seems to ignore, you have no idea how relieving it was to discover that someone else on this website remembers that.

Apparently the trend right now is to hate America and people aren't hesitating to jump on the band wagon.  And for whoever said that the soldiers aren't in Iraq fighting for our right to freedom of speech, congratulations, you're right.  But did you ever stop to think that perhaps they're fighting for the Iraq's rights to free speech?  No, America should not shove its beliefs down other country's throats, but do you honestly believe that anyone, anywhere wants to be oppressed?

What do you people believe is worth fighting for?  What will it take for people to move to action, as opposed to just arguing about it and saying that something must surely be done.  How many of you bush-haters think that something should be done about the conflict in Darfur?  It's not that different than Iraq.  If America gets involved in that the same thing will happen.  Americans will support it until they realize that they might actually have to commit to something.  It's time to man up, and stop blaming the government.  After all, it is a democracy and Bush was elected.  Twice.
Nov 15 2007 10:08PM
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potatofarmer
Posts: 2020 - Karma: 13
What grade are you in?  War Powers Act of 1973. Learn it.
Nov 15 2007 10:28PM
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D_Mezz
Posts: 1382 - Karma: 16
conservative.

about the war----real men dont pull out until they finish.
Nov 15 2007 10:34PM
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IcePointa
Posts: 1879 - Karma: 19
This is debateable....

And comparing Iraq to Darfur is rediculous. Darfur is the site of an active genocide with tribal warfare among and against civilians.

Iraq was one of about 70 dictatorships in the world, and no where near the worst. So we should use military force to remove each of those? Have fun with that, I however don't think its a good solution.
Nov 15 2007 10:38PM
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IcePointa
Posts: 1879 - Karma: 19
I'm sorry, but what is your point?
Nov 15 2007 10:40PM
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user098123
Posts: 6072 - Karma: 18
You're right, it was not one of the worst. However, it is up there, and it was one of the few threatening the world with WMDs. Sure there weren't any there, but we were tricked by some scientists from Iraq. Yes, it was our fault for falling to their trickery, but we were looking for an excuse to go into Iraq. Whoever says that it is a war over oil is stupid. It's a war over stopping a threatening dictator and eliminating their potential for WMDs. We've accomplished some of our goals, the war isn't a total waste.
Nov 15 2007 10:42PM
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IcePointa
Posts: 1879 - Karma: 19

I don't think you understand the extent of our hydrocarbon delima. I refer you to www.peakoil.com .

Also, every government in the world has the potential for a WMD program....You can't destroy the information these days, and thats all you need to get started.

Nov 15 2007 10:47PM
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Yauch
Posts: 1685 - Karma: 62

you dont understand how much influence the big buisnesses in america can have over the govornments decisions

or is corruption a thing of the past?

Nov 15 2007 10:52PM
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user098123
Posts: 6072 - Karma: 18
First of all, while oil prices are rising. I still firmly believe that it is not a war over oil. Prices are rising for many reasons. We have realized for a very long time that oil is running out and we need to find alternative fuel sources. Starting a war on another country for their oil reserves is a ridiculous motion, there is more to it than just that.

Also, every government in the world DOESNT have the potential for WMD's. I suggest you research more about them before you start talking like that. I have researched this topic extensively as well as completed multiple research papers on the topic. Firstly, the designs are incredibly hard to come by. Governments that can produce their own WMDs aren't readily passing the documents around. In fact, a majority of the documents that Iraq had that were about constructing WMDs were flawed documents, these documents were designed for them to build the WMDs, using their plutonium or Uranium-238 supplies to make them, and the bombs would be duds due to flaws in the plans. Do you know where Iraq received these blueprints? From the United States, we purposefully gave them faulty documents in the off chance that they do get Radioactive materials with the potential of obtaining critical mass that they would waste their supplies. Secondly, getting said radioactive materials is much more difficult than getting the plans for creating WMDs. Very few countries have the capabilities of producing their own radioactive materials with the ability to obtain critical mass.
Nov 15 2007 10:52PM
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MadSteezin
Posts: 4572 - Karma: 936
You come on NS expecting to get a lot of conservatives? Most of us on here are liberals.
Nov 15 2007 10:56PM
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IcePointa
Posts: 1879 - Karma: 19
Oil = $$

Throughout the history of mankind that is the most popular reason to go to war ever. Prove me wrong. You might find a few sparse examples, but even if it wasn't the primary motive, those had economic incentives I'm sure. Don't say WWII. Think of any war after that (and most before).

And this is an interesting allegation that Iraq had faulty US nuclear documents. Is there any proof of this or at least anywhere I could read more about this theory?

Finally I stand by the allegation that ultimately any sovereign government has the potential to develop a nuclear weapon. The physics are not under wraps any more. Uranium is available in almost any country. Does that mean they'll get it all right on the first try? No, but ultimately there is a good chance that every first world country will have acess to nuclear power and hence the potential, with a little effort, to make a bomb.
Nov 15 2007 11:05PM
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user098123
Posts: 6072 - Karma: 18
You could be right about the oil, regardless, I do not believe this was the main reason to go to war.

As for the proofs of the documents, I'll try and find it. About any sovereign country being able to build a bomb, that is completely incorrect I'm sorry. Yes, any country can get Uranium easily enough, but not every country can get Uranium-238, the isotope required to create a nuclear bomb. 238 is the Uranium isotope that can achieve critical mass, which is necessary for an atomic bomb, and that is just for some of the materials, nowadays the Deuterium is easier to come by, so I don't believe that is nearly as much as a problem anymore. The blueprints aren't nearly as easy to get as you think they are either. While they may know the physics behind a chain reaction at critical mass, that doesn't mean they know how to build one.
Nov 15 2007 11:08PM
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IcePointa
Posts: 1879 - Karma: 19
Look, the issue isn't which countries are capable of having a nuclear program. There are many, many nations capable unless you assert that scientists in other countries are somehow less intelligent than those in the USSR, USA, UK, France, China, India, Pakistan, North Korea, India, or Israel. The reason more countries do not have them is solely because of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, not because the technology is lacking. Namely, we threaten to destroy any other nations that want to join the nuclear club. That is all.
Nov 15 2007 11:34PM
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Shpadoinkle
Posts: 10437 - Karma: 84
O RLY?


Nov 15 2007 11:36PM
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2+2=5
Posts: 3676 - Karma: 18
your the stupid one. americans are too patriotic, that's the image they've created around the world and it'll stay like that forever.
Nov 15 2007 11:40PM
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JaphyRyder
Posts: 1766 - Karma: 113
word
Nov 16 2007 12:07AM
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BusyJohnSohn
Posts: 3483 - Karma: 29
AMEN brutha, I cant stand when people just jump on a bandwagon.  Living here in Canada, the thing that pisses me off is when people say, "I hate Stephen Harper, he makes us fight in all those American wars and kill all our soldiers Iraq"  Read the news you stupid bitch, we are in Afghanistan
Nov 16 2007 12:18AM
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Rippy087
Posts: 666 - Karma: 12
I took a college class on conservatism, and I still can't tell you the difference between a democrat a republican and a conservative.  I am the most politically inept person alive
Nov 16 2007 12:25AM
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doritos
Posts: 7368 - Karma: 53
Half? 90% of the Fuck Bush people have no idea why they even hate him, they just spit bullshit because it's the cool thing to do. That being said, if you don't think Bush used the massive surge of patriotism to get America to play along with his war, then you are an idiot.
Nov 16 2007 12:28AM
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-Kieran-
Posts: 1009 - Karma: 12
conservatie as well. thats a awesome way to put it. this is the exact thing that made us loose vietnam, the media started taking control of everyones minds until everyone was pissed off at the war. and would every liberal here rather have them bring the war to us, cause i know i woulnt and we have only lost like 5000 or less conpared to the 200,000 people we lost during WWII so i dont get y everyone is flipping out. 

thats what i got to say
Nov 16 2007 2:05AM
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IcePointa
Posts: 1879 - Karma: 19

Yea, blame the media for the shitfest that was Vietnam... ... ...

And I love the arguement that if we didn't go to war in Iraq we would have WWII style combat in the US.

pure genius

Nov 16 2007 2:11AM
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Yauch
Posts: 1685 - Karma: 62
hahahaha!
Nov 17 2007 1:19AM
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GreekAR6
Posts: 527 - Karma: 11
No, but maybe one of Americas cities would be destroyed with a WMD?
Nov 17 2007 12:25PM
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IcePointa
Posts: 1879 - Karma: 19
Yes, this is likely considering all the nuclear weapons and terrorist training camps we found in Iraq. If we didn't go to Iraq we wouldn't have ever caught Bin Laden either. You are right. Thank you for your enlightenment. It casts light onto the world.
Nov 17 2007 1:34PM
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deezy.
Posts: 2538 - Karma: 26
uhhhhhh
Nov 17 2007 5:33PM
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t-roy
Posts: 4041 - Karma: 52
when a bad/crazy president is in office, all the crazies out there like him, and the normal people don't, but the normal people aren't crazy enought to assassinate the president.


and to the creator of this thread, you lose.
Nov 17 2007 5:37PM
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potatofarmer
Posts: 2020 - Karma: 13
Learn what the War Powers Act of 1973 is, and stop blaming the President for everythingggggg that has gone wrong in Iraq.
Nov 17 2007 5:44PM
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zylstra
Posts: 3613 - Karma: 125
shut the fuck up.
Nov 17 2007 6:04PM
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GreekAR6
Posts: 527 - Karma: 11
Yeah, it's not difficult to hide that stuff at all.
Nov 17 2007 11:27PM
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jason...
Posts: 9006 - Karma: 780
im canadian eh so this doesnt concern me eh
Nov 18 2007 2:05AM
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wh@t
Posts: 6204 - Karma: 51

thank you. it needed to be said.

Nov 18 2007 2:12AM
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switchskier206604
Posts: 497 - Karma: 36
that sounds much like the paper this asian kid wrote in our english class in college. the basis for the paper was a situation in laramie wyoming where a kid named matthew shepard got beaten and murdered by two homophobic cowboys... supposedly they knew him. but yeah, anyone from that area probably remembers the actual event. but we read about it in class and wrote a paper making connections between that and this other story focusing on the medias influence. and so im reading this idiot kids paper, and its just all about how we need to eliminate gay people, or take away the title "gay" from them so they cannot associate with one another. but the main point of his paper was that we need to KILLLLL gay people...this dumbass kid rambled on for 5 pages reiterating the  same awful, racist, and homophobic shit to say the least thAT ive ever read in a paper. i was completely enthused to read this kids paper after i read the reveealing thesis, to say the least. because id be very inclined to read a paper like that which legitimately makes an argument for something so radical, a stretch for an english paper i'd imagine...to give you some examples of what other people wrote about to explain how far off point this idiot was. my papers thesis addressed primarily the fact that the media takes advantage of small town tradegies and blows them up into a widespread national event. turning the genuine importance of the event into something so minuscule..... and on and on and on. so yeah this kid was way off with his paper, which was the reason why i ripped the shit up and told him to start over... dont worry, it was just draft day im not that big of an asshole. however he surely woulda failed and made himself look like an asshole to the teacher. i really cant believe how many stupid kids there are in colleges everywhere. im sure someone can make some similar claim. cheers
Nov 18 2007 1:25PM
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skithedirt
Posts: 1759 - Karma: 382
classic

mine was rough draft day too
Nov 19 2007 9:57PM
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