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This has got to be the dumbest shit ever...

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Ryno
Posts: 31125 - Karma: 336
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/S/SUPERVISED_INJECTIONS?SITE=CASRP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

HAHAHA
Oct 20 2007 10:21PM
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Alex_G
Posts: 11902 - Karma: 1,019
And also, do you really think something like dying on the streets is going to deter a heroin addict? Nothing can change their minds...and I don't think that people would want to randomly start doing heroin just because there is a nice place to do it now.
Oct 21 2007 10:49PM
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j-d-s
Posts: 119 - Karma: 11
mmm not a bad idea
so can i now buy a house and make it into a smoke house??
Oct 21 2007 11:42PM
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Alex_G
Posts: 11902 - Karma: 1,019
medical marijuana clubs...SF has them too...
Oct 21 2007 11:49PM
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hippie_cat
Posts: 1569 - Karma: 13

man its amazing how few people have heard of harm minimisation. having things like injecting rooms (and for that matter, pill testing) greatly reduces the burden on society caused by drug addicts. by validating their problems, instead of letting them rot on the street, youre helping them on the road to recovery. and dont go on with your amateur eugenics and natrual selection bullshit. being addicted to heroin doesnt automatically make you deservant to die of aids, hepatits or an overdose.

Oct 22 2007 7:45AM
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leckett1
Posts: 6476 - Karma: 294
I have a better idea. Lets not support heroine use. Lets give them help in quitting rather than promote them to keep doing it.
Oct 22 2007 7:52AM
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Ryno
Posts: 31125 - Karma: 336
By helping them you support their habit.

By making it safer to shoot up, you're minimizing the risks, making hard drugs like heroin look safer.
Oct 22 2007 8:28AM
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Alexander_Keith
Posts: 3204 - Karma: 25
And how would you propose to help them quit?

This is one of the few and effective ways for the addicts to be able to understand in medical terms what they're going through and what can help them. This shouldn't even be about eugenics. Its not just about giving them a safe environment to inject, its about them getting the understanding they need about what they're going through. An addict for the most part wants to quit, noone wants to be a slave to a substance, having the nurses there starts them on their road.
Oct 22 2007 9:40AM
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leckett1
Posts: 6476 - Karma: 294
That is, assuming the addicts have that mindset. Maybe they think "Hey that was a hard day holding my arm out panhandling, I think I'm going to go shoot up." Maybe they shoot up like we have a brew after a long day.




Sup man long time no talk!
Oct 22 2007 10:46AM
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ECFS-Attitash
Posts: 2573 - Karma: 13
you guys apparently don't understand addiction.

do you think it's easy for a homeless person to quit heroin?  with nothing else to live for?

so why not make it safer for them and get them into contact with nurses who probably discourage it and offer them other help.  it improves the health of the population too, with reduced HIV and hep transmission rates and freeing up emergency services to help others, if it keeps one kid from sticking himself with a dirty needle by accident it would be worth it.
Oct 22 2007 11:26AM
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skiRay
Posts: 7558 - Karma: 926
ok same. what the fuck is going on? that is truly the stupidest shit ever. there is no other way to say it
Oct 22 2007 4:20PM
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rightcoastskier
Posts: 2440 - Karma: 10
sup brohans?
Oct 22 2007 5:05PM
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CTripper
Posts: 6520 - Karma: 20
you all who say this is stupid are idiots.  none of you know a drug addict, go back to being 15
Oct 22 2007 5:31PM
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TheQuailman
Posts: 7382 - Karma: 147
This is a great idea.  Allow people to do illegal drugs for free.  Condone a market for illegal drugs that causes tons of deaths of U.S. law and drug enforcement.  Allow criminals in other countries to make a living off other people's addiction.  Set an example that its ok to try drugs and be addicted to them, becuase you can always just go to one of these local places and get high.  I think that if someone wants to get high and do drugs, than they have to face the consequences.  My tax dollars shouldn't go to support drug addicts.  Honestly this pisses me off so much. 
Oct 22 2007 6:31PM
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Tom.
Posts: 1954 - Karma: 12
trying heroin isn't a disease you stupid motherfucker. Its a horrible judgment call that will fuck up your life. There isn't anything you can compare it to, because when you shoot up heroin you know exactly what your doing.
Oct 22 2007 7:25PM
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ECFS-Attitash
Posts: 2573 - Karma: 13
hahaha.

honestly, grow up.  do you think people do this because they think it's fun, in the end they have no control over it really.  and you can call them weak or whatever, but it is really a biological predilection for addiction that condemns these people to a life on the street.  this program can't cost that much and improves the public health...i guess i dont see what's wrong with that.
Oct 22 2007 9:45PM
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Swan_Solo
Posts: 2374 - Karma: 14
have you ever been addicted to heroin?
Oct 22 2007 10:46PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Are you for real? You think this is going to encourage people to start doing heroin because it looks safer as a result? Please, tell me you don't actually believe there are people out there who are going to go, "Well I wasn't going to start doing heroin, but now that I see the cushy lives those guys lining up to head into that clinic on East Hastings are living, how can I say no!"

By helping them you don't "support their habit", you just help them. They're not going to quit because there are no safe injection sites. No one is thinking "I was gonna give this shit up, but now that I have a sterile room and a new needle, I feel this is exactly the right lifestyle choice for me." No. People are going to do hard drugs or they won't, regardless of whether these facilities exist. The question is whether they die of overdose and spread disease in the process. They will not quit because no medical facility exists... but they might get on a road to quitting because there is a supportive environment which allows them to manage their addiction safely and with dignity. You clearly have a very inaccurate mental portrait of the addict... stop thinking 20something burnout on a stained mattress, start thinking Joe Everyman in his 30s, trying desperately to kick a habit that feeds on the stress it creates, in between a 9-to-5 office job and going home to the wife and kids. The real world is out there dude, have a look sometime.
Oct 22 2007 11:54PM
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.jon
Posts: 2121 - Karma: 345
MOD FIGHT!

jk
Oct 22 2007 11:57PM
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anna*
Posts: 1701 - Karma: 10
theres a couple of them that i know of in melbourne.
mostly run by  church groups or local councils.

have been successful so far in dealing with overdoses on the streets, and violent incidents relating to people coming down off trips or just starting up on them being aggressive towards other people just wandering around the city.
Oct 23 2007 3:56AM
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Alexander_Keith
Posts: 3204 - Karma: 25

lol not too much man, my rents booked me a chalet for me Ted Ethan and Charles at Tremblant for 4 days starting new years eve as a christmas present, its beautifu,l Im stoked. For whatever reason my enter button isnt working so I cant drop a line., but addicts are addicts for a reason, its not a mindset its a mental and physical dependance. A beer after a long day is a good thing but tis not as if we dont have it then our entire world is out of kilter and you cant even think much less function without taking it in, which is how addiction works.

Oct 23 2007 8:33AM
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hippie_cat
Posts: 1569 - Karma: 13

thaaaank you.
this threead is yet another reason why the war on drugs will never be won, as soon as an initiave is started that genuinel helps the wider community every retard out there goes "oh no!!! theyre making heroin look good!!  now people are gonna start shootin gup all the time cos theonly thing stopping them was an abscence of injecting rooms.

the lesson: people, in general, are fucking retarded.

Oct 23 2007 8:47AM
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Alexander_Keith
Posts: 3204 - Karma: 25
Solid solid solid
Oct 23 2007 8:48AM
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miroz
Posts: 10333 - Karma: 3,945
yeah, but doing that costs a lot of money and time, and there is a pretty damn good chance that the addicts will go right back on heroin after they're done.  Its easier to prevent usage, but this isnt about preventing. Its about the way the city spends their  money...
Oct 23 2007 11:38AM
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mski
Posts: 4791 - Karma: 3,803
dirty hippies
Oct 23 2007 1:21PM
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anti-mogal
Posts: 526 - Karma: 53
Exactly
Oct 23 2007 1:31PM
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KRASHED
Posts: 7803 - Karma: 466
I know this is going to sound repetitive but I can honestly see the  hundreds of thousands of dollars that go into these shelters going towards prevention programs that keep people off the streets being a lot more effective than giving them a nice clean spot to shoot up and continue their habit.

It's sort of like the community involvement in getting after school programs to keep Toronto youths away from getting bored, frustrated  and involved in gang violence, believe it or not these programs actually work. I'm the kind of guy that believes the problem can be stopped before it starts and that's where the money should be.




Oct 23 2007 3:24PM
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ECFS-Attitash
Posts: 2573 - Karma: 13
Well when you consider that the street exposure to intravenous drugs will be reduced, because people are going to these places to shoot up, it seems unlikely that the use of the drug would increase.  I see it as killing two birds with one stone, rather than trapping one bird and letting it escape later....

er...

yeah.
Oct 23 2007 4:01PM
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jimmychung
Posts: 6857 - Karma: 25
how about instead of wasting tax money to help drug addicts shoot up more safely, we spend tax money on building more and better rehab clinics?
fucking california
Oct 23 2007 4:05PM
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ECFS-Attitash
Posts: 2573 - Karma: 13
just look at celeb rehab clinics.

there really isnt a way to make them better or more effective.  those places have all the money in the world and don't have anything near a 100% success rate.  time to try something new after a decade.
Oct 23 2007 4:09PM
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mizzike
Posts: 1386 - Karma: 251
You make some really good points here but I still dont think this is a great idea. Doing drugs is a choice someone has to make knowing the risks and consequences that come with them. Its not fair to the public to have to pay to support the illegal habits of adicts that they themselves brought down on them selves.
Oct 23 2007 4:18PM
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KRASHED
Posts: 7803 - Karma: 466
bingo bango
Oct 23 2007 5:33PM
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KRASHED
Posts: 7803 - Karma: 466
It's like opening a center for wife beaters, where you can safely beat up your wife in a clean, safe and supervised environment, hell it'll keep your kids from seeing that violence, and hell it may even prevent them from beating their wifes. It still doesn't defeat the fact that people are still doing it.
 
Oct 23 2007 5:34PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
This comment, I think, sums up the absolute ignorance associated with this issue. What an incredibly stupid, offensive thing to say. Drug addicts are not comparable to wife beaters. In many cases their supposed "choice knowing the risks" as someone up there pointed out, was not an informed one, but the product of pressures that they couldn't deal with. There but for the grace of God go all of us, to say "I'm different" is naive, and I speak as someone who has never tried ANY illegal drug, or even so much as smoked a cigarette, in my life.

Now there are two separate arguments here. Firstly, whether or not it's helpful. Given that you all seem to have abandoned this line for the second argument I'll just assume we've provided strong enough argument on which to conclude that it is helpful?

The second line, which everyone is taking up now, is that the money could be better spent on education programs, rehab clinics, etc. I will not deny that these things are equally if not more helpful to the problem. However, it would be naive to think that any of these programs can eliminate the problem of drug abuse altogether. As a result, having SIS facilities as one option or one means by which to ameliorate the problem that currently exists and will continue to exist no matter how much money we put into prevention, we are spending money in an effective way to improve the situation. I look at the existence of SIS as a step on the road to rehabilitation, but rehabilitation isn't something that happens overnight. It takes a long time. And there's no reason not to allow addicts some dignity and safety while they cope with their addiction, and, with some encouragement and a bit of help from the right social attitude, maybe they will recover... of course, not treating them like abusive spouses would be a good start.
Oct 23 2007 5:45PM
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KRASHED
Posts: 7803 - Karma: 466
Ok I wasn't trying to go as far as comparing the mentally of heroin addicts to the mindset of wife beaters, but hell when you say that I have it must be doing that. What I was trying to explain was that putting people with a problem in an area where the problem still exists without outside risks still doesn't come across to me as a way to rehabilitate. I think you said something about putting them into some sort of social grouping, ya great idea, nothing influences you more like seeing other people doing the exact same thing you are, maybe they can be friends and shoot up on Friday nights and see a movie too. Maybe i'm blind, ignorant or stupid but I don't believe a problem can be solved by having the existing problem present in the so called "rehabilitation process." (complete farce)
Oct 23 2007 6:00PM
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TheQuailman
Posts: 7382 - Karma: 147
I worked hard in highschool, got good grades, stayed away from drugs, got into a good college worked hard and got a good job and work hard and make money.

Now why the fuck should I give me hard-earned money to some guy who didn't do shit in highschool and instead slacked off, partied, and did Heroin. 

Now he has no job, no education, and no money because he didn't work for it.  And he shoots up heroin.  He has no money to buy his smack so he steals, deals, and commits other crimes to get the drug.

So back to the point; why the fuck should I give my hard earned money to build a place where this fuck-up can continue to his awful life and supposedly cure the addiction.

And lets say he does cure the addiction and lives a life after that.  What example is that going to give to young kids in the future.  Their gunna see two options: A. I work my ass off, stay straight, and make money that just gets taken away from me in the future. B. I party, have fun, and do drugs while I'm young and eventually I'll go to a clinic and get cured.

So you might think that these clinics will help people and save lives for a seemingly small price tag(which is their purpose), but if you look at this situation from an overall viewpoint, you'll realize that these clinics will do more harm then good, and that they actually mess up the way society works. 

Oct 23 2007 8:03PM
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dr_phil
Posts: 1698 - Karma: 95
^ How would the world be great if everybody thought like that.








Sarcasm Level: 10








Oct 23 2007 8:17PM
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Swan_Solo
Posts: 2374 - Karma: 14
that's pretty ignorant, not all drug addicts just fucked around in high school

some people have genuine problems, does that mean they shouldn't be helped?
Oct 23 2007 8:20PM
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Craigskis
Posts: 6650 - Karma: 1,645


Click for larger image

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2007/01/19/crack.html
Ottawa police stepping on city's crack pipe program: medical chief ....................................................................................................................


^  Crack is such a dirty drug.  If your thinking of trying it,  don't destroy your life.

Safe Injection sites are a good idea.  The problem will never go away on it's own,  Harm reduction.

Oct 23 2007 8:36PM
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KRASHED
Posts: 7803 - Karma: 466
I really can't agree with your ideology behind not building these heroin houses even though I don't agree with them. You were probably brought up in a well off family, that doesn't mean you were rich but you had some sort of sustainable income. Now put yourself in the position of a kid who grew up with no dad and an alcoholic mother, you probably wouldn't turn out so well if those people were you influences. These kids grow up, can't afford to buy much, get picked on in school and they may start to find ways out of their miserable lives, this is how people get addicted to drugs like heroine, cocaine, PSP etc.....it's a way out. In theory they could have made better choices, but with an upbringing like that I wouldn't put money on them making a life.


That is just one scenario of someone who didn't just fuck off in their lives, they didn't have much basis to persevere in the first place.
Oct 23 2007 8:45PM
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ECFS-Attitash
Posts: 2573 - Karma: 13
Define good college.

because you're not demonstrating it at the moment.
Oct 23 2007 8:48PM
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mizzike
Posts: 1386 - Karma: 251
But they did make the bad choice of trying it in the first place...
These people put them selves into their shitty situation by breaking the law. I mean there is a reason heroin is illegal and i cant see why we should promote the use of it at all. Other than the health of bums that contribute nothing to society this program will help nothing.
Oct 23 2007 9:48PM
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Swan_Solo
Posts: 2374 - Karma: 14
i love how you can tell which people have never been affected by nasty drugs
Oct 23 2007 9:57PM
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CTripper
Posts: 6520 - Karma: 20
your tax money goes to a lot of other things you use every single day of your life, not just clinics you twat.
Oct 23 2007 10:39PM
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holyDINOSAURS
Posts: 7038 - Karma: 639
agree
Oct 23 2007 10:44PM
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ECFS-Attitash
Posts: 2573 - Karma: 13
Yeah, but now that they are there, in the depths of addiction, they are HURTING society...so this is really going toward fewer dirty needles and fewer people to give you the HIV, etc, etc.  I really don't care as much about the addicts as I do the everyday people who sometimes get fucked by the fact that addicts are tossing needles on the street or get raped by someone with HIV.  I think you need to look at the bigger picture a bit.
Oct 24 2007 10:39AM
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Tinga
Posts: 11349 - Karma: 2,333
well an addict gets aids then spreads it to someone who isnt an addict by sex or other means they get screwed over too.
Oct 24 2007 12:23PM
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freezed
Posts: 12973 - Karma: 500
Aren't you like 15? Maybe you'll have a better grasp on the serious pressures of life in a few years. Because as it stands snow, I don't even think you're old enough to pay taxes.
Oct 24 2007 12:27PM
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hippie_cat
Posts: 1569 - Karma: 13
Yep exactly. what some people fail to realise is that people are going to do drugs no matter what, so why not try and make the general health of the community better in spite of this fact?
Oct 25 2007 3:48AM
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