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Ski related- ethical question.

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twintipteles
Posts: 2954 - Karma: 13

I've got a bit of a ethical dilemma here, and I figured ns was the place to go to sort it out. I had acl surgery last december. I fell off the stairs in late february right onto the bad knee and felt/maybe heard it pop. Lots of pain and swelling. My mom is a nurse practitioner and my uncle is a doctor. They both checked it out and diagnosed as a probable torn acl. Went to the surgeon right away and was told it'd be fine in  month or so. It wasn't. Most of the pain went away, but  it had this weird feeling when it extend when I walked. I got it checked out again, the surgeon still said it was fine, and I kinda just dismissed the extension issues as a post surgery thing. The knee started feeling pretty strong and I tried to ski in may ish, about 5.5 months afer the original surgery. The knee gave out on me immediately, and I thought it popped. Got it checked out again. The surgeon couldn't see me so I saw the physicians assistant, again she said the acl graft felt strong, it was probably a mcl strain and to come back if it didn't feel better in a month. It felt wonky and gave out on me a couple times but other than that instability was strong and painfree. I went back and saw the surgeon, and convinced him to get me an mri. He told me again that the acl was fine and that he was suspicious I could have some cartiledge damage. The mri came back. Blown fucking acl. Total tear. Time for a new doctor. My new surgeon took one look at the mri and said that the tear looked almost a year old, meaning it most likely happened back in fucking february. What should I do here? Angry letter to old surgeon? Angry letter to superior? I'm not at all sue-happy and understand that people fuck up, but I saw this guy soo many times, and I stressed to him that I planned to ski all summer in new zealand, and take a year off of school in order to ski this season in utah, and that skiing was the most important thing in my life, and he kept reassuring me it would be fine. I know I fucked up big time and will never again hesitate to get a second opinion, but this guy screwed me. I'd be pretty much done with the recovery had the original re-tear been diagnosed and had surgery. I'd be skiing this season. Instead, I'm here, pissed off, a week out of surgery, crutching around and cursing a fucking doctor that took a year of skiing from me that I'll never get back.

Sep 13 2007 7:49PM
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garrett.
Posts: 9304 - Karma: 3,670
kill him.
Sep 13 2007 7:52PM
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twintipteles
Posts: 2954 - Karma: 13
That ended a little more bitter than I intended. I know people fuck up and tend to be pretty forgiving, but I get really worked up every time I think about this. HE told me so many fucking times that I'd be fine. What really gets me now is that I'm realizing how quick my original surgeon's visits were, probably a third the length of my current visits, and he never even seemed totally focused. It's hard for me to see this as something other than negligence, but I don't understand how the physicians assistant missed it as well.
Sep 13 2007 7:52PM
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twintipteles
Posts: 2954 - Karma: 13

did I mention that I'm ready to cry any time i hear a rubber band snap and paranoid as hell that my knee feels weird at all times.

Sep 13 2007 7:58PM
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eljefe
Posts: 915 - Karma: 467
you my friend have a medical malpractice suit just waiting to get filed...Whats the right thing to do? Hard to say... The Right Thing in my opinion would have been for the surgeon to have gotten you an MRI the first time you went in and thought you re-tore it. Its not a car we're talking about here, its not like the mechanic fucked up your transmission rebuild and has to rebuild it again...we're talking about your knee that regardless of skiing, you gotta walk on for the rest of your life. He fucked up, and not only did he fuck up he allowed his arrogance to undermine your hunch of a re-tear. I definately would talk to a lawyer and your new doctor and get some ideas as to what your options are before it goes on too long...
Sep 13 2007 8:06PM
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bigwhite.steeze
Posts: 8227 - Karma: 1,030
mhmmmmm
Sep 13 2007 8:09PM
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wilkesyachtingco
Posts: 4425 - Karma: 41
malpractice yo. charge that sucker for any bills that have accumulated due to any medical procedures you have had to/will have to undergo as a result of the old untreated injury that you wouldnt have had to undergo if he had fixed it right the first time.

you shouldnt have to pay for extra surgery/painkillers/whatever other costs you incur because he blew it.

i dont know about punitive damages, since you werent really getting paid to ski or anything, and the whole pain/sufferning tip will be hard to prove since it was just a knee injury.

but really, if you have incured any extra expence due to his incompetance, then you should try and get them to cover it. it probably wouldnt be worth lawyering up over, but have a conversation with the old surgeon and tell him whats up.

a lot of medical people make you sign waivers that limits your ability to litigate anyways, so if you were really pissed off you would probably end up in some kind of mediation, not court. but that would probably be better for both parties.
Sep 13 2007 8:09PM
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thedutchmayn
Posts: 1653 - Karma: 45
file that shit. he probably has malpractice insurance so it probably wont be coming straight out of his pocket.
Sep 13 2007 8:12PM
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twintipteles
Posts: 2954 - Karma: 13
Yeah, but I don't know if theres any way at all to prove that the re-tear really is that old, and they know that I skiied on it before it was recommended, so I think that pretty much blows any kind of suit out of the water. But yeah, I just wanna send this guy a message to pay alot more attention so he doesn't fuck anyone else over like this. If it's worth anything he went to Columbia University for college and medical school, which is pretty prestigious.
Sep 13 2007 8:12PM
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doublexl
Posts: 8407 - Karma: 27
what a n00b?
Sep 13 2007 8:13PM
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wilkesyachtingco
Posts: 4425 - Karma: 41
definatly talk to the old surgeon. you cant be liable for any issues that stem from following what he told you to do. If you can get your current surgeon and maybe another to confirm that the tear is a year old, youll be sitting just fine.
Sep 13 2007 8:14PM
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TWoods
Posts: 10014 - Karma: 8,386
It's really GOOD that you are thinking hard before you take legal action. I can't stamd people who are into sueing everyone whenever anything goes wrong.

However, he's a fucktard, and took away a lot of your life because of it. That's malpractice, and a whole bunch of really expensive medical shit you should NOT have to pay for. so you need to figure out how you can break even with that shit. If he has to give up all that money that he "earned" while working on you, you won't be doing anything that's lame, but you will be sending a strong message. make sure to sue for enough so you can pay your lawyer back too, and break even. 

Then since it's so much money to begin with, you might as well throw in another 500 or so for some dank skis. 
Sep 13 2007 8:16PM
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twintipteles
Posts: 2954 - Karma: 13
Moneywise, it's not huge, I have pretty good health insurance, and my parents took care of the rest thank god. As I've said before I'm not at all sue-happy, primarily because I believe in some sort of universal health care system, or at least making health care affordable, and I understand that fucktards suing over nothing is a major factor in the cost of health care. One thing I hadn't thought about though is that his errors probably cost the insurance company another fifty grand due to the new surgery needed and all the included shit, a cost which is then passed onto the subscribers. So, in some ways taking no action is irresponsible of me. Fuck. Life is way too complicated.
Sep 13 2007 8:21PM
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Eric_D
Posts: 1562 - Karma: 79
when i cut my tendon on my finger and after the surgery my docter didnt stress enough how careful i needed to be so it snapped a week later, and had to have another surgery, and had to start over. after that i was so careful i was so worried that i was gonna here a pop in my finger, 6 weeks of watching tv.
Sep 13 2007 8:27PM
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a.quinn
Posts: 1778 - Karma: 14
agreed....
Sep 13 2007 8:29PM
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jacqui-la-fripui
Posts: 1119 - Karma: 12
i know a girl who BROKE HER FUCKING TIBIA at a track meet and the doctor said it was a deep muscle tear and refused to get an xray like 4 times, about a year later they finally got an xray and they saw it was broken but it resolidified so they had to do reconstructive surgery and break the bone again to fix it.
now that is worth a lawsuit.

blown acl I guess you could sue you might not get that much though, you should just go bitch out the doctor
Sep 13 2007 8:55PM
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dorikin
Posts: 1914 - Karma: 16
You should talk to a personal injury lawyer man. Seriously. The surgeon fucked up, and now you are paying for it, possibly with the future of your ability to ski. This sounds so much like what happened to Evan Raps back in the day it isn't even funny. There is a reason Surgeons and doctors get paid a shit load of money, they have a lot of liability. So must importantly get a better doctor or surgeon to check you out, and get that knee handled, but at the same time I would consider getting some legal advice, and hope you read all those documents before you signed on the dotted line...
Sep 13 2007 9:11PM
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t-roy
Posts: 4041 - Karma: 52
yeah dude, i hate lawsuits and all that business, but in your case it is pretty concrete that your doc was not doing his job. consult with parents and any family members first is what i'd do, then the next step would be to find a really good lawyer.

sorry to hear about all your troubles and hope it turns out for the best.
Sep 13 2007 9:19PM
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Krush
Posts: 1312 - Karma: 12
yea, its not like he fucked up once, but the three (or howevermany) times you went to see him. deff sue his ass
Sep 13 2007 9:35PM
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sconniestyle
Posts: 3945 - Karma: 26
you could have a great ski adventure with medical malpractice money

Sep 13 2007 9:37PM
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Bodeau.
Posts: 1637 - Karma: 48
hahha
Sep 13 2007 9:40PM
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SkiMN
Posts: 4005 - Karma: 38
He screwed you over big time. It's not like this is a minor fuck up, he was wrong multiple times and it cost you a lot of time that you will never get back, especially at that age. An angry letter is in order to say the least. Yeah people make mistakes but you kept complaining with an ongoing problem and he failed to check for anything, he just passed it off as nothing and essentially made the point that you didnt know what was going on in your own knee. A doc should at least humor you in a situation like that and actually check it out for you.
Sep 13 2007 10:12PM
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MadSteezin
Posts: 4572 - Karma: 936
Dude just sue them and that will pay for your year without skiing.
Sep 13 2007 10:52PM
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Armanzoid
Posts: 2453 - Karma: 26
Same sort of thing happened to me. I broke my tibia and fibia. I go to this little shit hospital by my hill in jersey, the orthopedic doctor looks at me and says "give him three codeine, and send him home." The motherfucker didnt even take time to look at my x ray. He leaves, they see my x ray, I have a spiral break going through my tibia and fibia. luckily my dad came by then since I was already in a morphine induced state and couldn't even think straight. My dad flipped a shit, and had them send them to be to New York Presbyterian hospital. Now I am a titanium rod in my tibia richer. Yay best orthopedic hospital in the east coast.
Sep 13 2007 11:02PM
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General_Shredgnar
Posts: 3024 - Karma: 34
Check if malpractice insurance covers that shit for the doctor, if it doesnt flip him off and sue his anus into the earth. He probably was impatient or some bullshit which led to your extreme shitty situation.
Sep 13 2007 11:13PM
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-justice-
Posts: 1808 - Karma: 37
You need to get some sort of compensation from him since his negligence cost you a lot of time and put you at unnecessary risk since your knee was so unstable. You're lucky that nothing worse happened but that doctor shouldn't get away with being that negligent.
Sep 13 2007 11:24PM
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phsk8
Posts: 85 - Karma: 9
Ya your doctor was just blanking everything you said out. I had the same experience where I thought I redid something and my surgeon said no. The thing is though that when they diagnos something just by looking at it, it is not very acurate and any good surgeon knows this. I always got the feeling that my surgeon didn't want to do a mri or exploratory surgery for some hidden reason but that is what had to be done. My advice is that, ya the doctor made a mistake but so did you. You took his word on faith and didn't go through with your own judgment. I mean the surgeon must have been bad at what he does and I think that you can't sue someone because of that but you can choose not to go to him.
Sep 14 2007 12:21AM
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titsLOL
Posts: 7485 - Karma: 396
Yo dude if you talk to some legal/doctor people and they think you have a legit case sue the doctor, and if you actually get crazy money from it just donate a big chunk of it to a charity that deserves it more than that Columbia quack.


Just make sure you save enough to go heli skiing with your friends.

btw cant wait till you're back on the slopes dude.
Sep 14 2007 12:38AM
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CKpolicy
Posts: 2587 - Karma: 2,463
know anyone with a pig farm? if so, you know what to do...
Sep 14 2007 12:44AM
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KSdesign
Posts: 687 - Karma: 175
Sue him. You may not be sue-happy, but from what your saying... with all the times visiting this guy, i dont know y he didnt tell u to get an MRI right away just to make sure, any doctor wouldve and should take extra precautionary measures to inssure a patients safety... so the verdict from me is to sue his ass.
Sep 14 2007 12:56AM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
You basically have to sue, ethically. Think about his future patients. This sort of incompetence must be deterred in order for people to be able to expect a high standard of medical treatment.
Sep 14 2007 2:30PM
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meggers
Posts: 2094 - Karma: 70
he was wrong and you should call him out on it. im not saying sue him, but you can always threaten to even if you never plan on going through with it. you owe it to his future patents. and like don't go in with an attitude but call him up or go in to meet iwth him and be like "so why didn't you believe me when i told you it was my acl. have yu ever felt a torn acl before? how could you not know? what took you so long to do an mri" ya know and not like be an ass but be inquisitive and curious and like i don't understand and i want to know then you will get answers and you will call him out, but you always have the sue card to play if need be even if you dont go through with it ya know?
Sep 14 2007 7:13PM
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currentwestman
Posts: 3292 - Karma: 330
might just be me but that was so long i didnt even read it...no offense, i might just be too lazy
Sep 14 2007 7:40PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
um maybe u should have before you posted



it sorta helps if you read it then u dont sound like a tard


to the knee guy you have to do something, and good luck with skiing again
Sep 14 2007 9:25PM
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Tinga
Posts: 11349 - Karma: 2,333
stand outside his office with a movie of this story playing and if he comes out all pissed just be like well you fucked up my life just returning the favor.
Sep 14 2007 9:42PM
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Bab.
Posts: 766 - Karma: 22
this sucks but theres not much to do other than to sue him
Sep 14 2007 10:13PM
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Sheltron3030
Posts: 1826 - Karma: 110
When i tore my acl for the first time i had no idea what happened... I just heard a pop and pain. So i went to the ER and this lady was checking me out and she had an intern with her....she was going through the motions of checking the ligaments (mcl, lcl..) and when she got to the acl check, "and this is how you check to see if there is an acl tear..." and BAM, blacked out completely.
My acl was only partially torn. She tore the rest of it in one fowl swoop, and then some...My dad (who was in the room) told me i kicked her in the gut and she was on the floor for a while breathing hard and the intern was freaking out...
anyway i was pissed. but i hate suers so i didnt, it was an accident i suppose...
Sep 15 2007 2:16AM
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KRAMPUSNTROLLZ
Posts: 2715 - Karma: 355
You could sue him if he is a jerk, but if he really didn't mean any harm, just kind of a dumb guy, then just get a new doctor and move on.
Sep 15 2007 3:15AM
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RedbAss
Posts: 352 - Karma: 10
if you skied on it within 5.5 months its your own damn fault!
Sep 15 2007 7:30AM
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SkierX
Posts: 16253 - Karma: 538
Honestly, I was going to say something about that.

Not only did you ski on it in a short time after the injury, and earlier than is generally recommended. Also, from your story, you skied on it when you weren't even confident it was healed to start with.

I ask you these things...

Did you follow the advice of the doctor in resuming physical activity? namely skiing?

Can it be PROVED that the injury is in fact 100% the original and was not repaired correctly to start with? I mean literally 100%, and have multiple other medical professionals who would be willing to state that and put their medical careers on the line, attest to the that fact.

If you can answer no to either of those questions whatsoever, then there is nothing you can do.
Sep 15 2007 9:25AM
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japie99
Posts: 2128 - Karma: 19
I agree with him! Im not a fan of destroying ppl life by sewing. But if he made you pay a lot of money extra than you should let him pay for that!
Sep 15 2007 9:51AM
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SkierX
Posts: 16253 - Karma: 538
Tell me about it!

A horrible stitch and lives are ruined. And my oh my the horror if a seam splits!!!! Makes me sick just thinking of it. Someone please think of the sweaters!
Sep 15 2007 9:55AM
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twintipteles
Posts: 2954 - Karma: 13
Shut the fuck up, you missed the point of the thread entirely.
I never started this with the intention of suing. Plus, my complaint was not that I re-tore, it was that the diagnosis was screwed up many times. Also, It was not the skiing that retore the ligament but the fall off the steps several months prior.
Further, my old surgeon told me multiple times that I would be  "pretty much 100%" at six months, even after the injury, so trying to ski cautiously at 5.5 months, was not out of the question.
Sep 15 2007 7:05PM
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