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Thoughts on evolution of riding POW

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jacobski
Posts: 834 - Karma: 10
With all the rockered and reverse sidecut skis coming out next year (EP Pro/Hellbents/ARG's) what is pow riding going to look like on film?

2 vids in bio w Pollard on EP Pros-helmet cam:
http://www.filmtheidea.com/pollardpage.html

Pep rode Pontoons in Ski Porn and it looked pretty cool

Other than that I just thought the older McConkey MSP clips on Spatula's(chrome bananas) looked lame to me the way he just kind of slides instead of carves. This kid is on Spatulas as well, watch him slide:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2dJB3f6zSE

Pow riding is the ecstacy of skiing in my opinion, I've searched previous threds on this, and I want more opinions.

The Armada site says that the ARG is changing everything this year for their atheletes.

What do you think about the way pow skis, tricks, and filming will evolve in the future?
-How wide is too wide?
-Will everyone be skiing rockered skis in pow?
-How will tricks/filming change?
Click for larger image
-Thanx for your input-PEACE
May 10 2007 6:36PM
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eheath
Posts: 61604 - Karma: 123,113
I skied pow 3 seasons ago on ar5s. I thought that was awesome. I then rode vicous and now jps, and wide skis are the fucking shit in powder, you think it wouldn't be that much, but its amazing. I also rock quite a long ski for pow too (188) and it makes it soo much better. Less work = stanima = more shrelping.
May 10 2007 6:39PM
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STACKS
Posts: 1938 - Karma: 42
i think the wideness of the skis is leveling out and turning more toward technology in how the skis are designed
May 10 2007 6:45PM
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-NY-STeeZE-
Posts: 2114 - Karma: 23
i cant wait to ski some pow next season how would the ants be for pow and bc jumps?
im 6'1"
May 10 2007 6:53PM
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jacobski
Posts: 834 - Karma: 10
I've skied the Ants and they are like a beefed up version of the JP vs Juliens. They are light but pretty stiff, they like to go fast and straight, at 191' they are pretty bomber. Many Armada riders use it as an AK ski.
May 10 2007 6:57PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
I think eventually there will be two sorta sects for pow skis - long stiff chargers built for speed and steep (Think ANTS) or soft buttery stocky skis that will be both maneuverable as hell and perfect for messing around in deep snow (Pollard Pro's). There will be some crossover of course, and rockered and reverse sidecut on both sides, but I see those being the main division.

As for riding, I think theres a lot to be explored in Pollards style. With huge wide soft and rockered skis, I think we'll soon start seeing "flex" nose and tail grabs, where you grab and bend the ski in midair. Theres a lot to go in every respect, as we still need some way of attacking the sort of shit Jeremy Jones can do.
May 10 2007 7:03PM
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CrazedSkier1080
Posts: 3357 - Karma: 66
You have to think though. When the spatulas first came out there were totally revolutionary. Noone had skid something like that before so the ideas were all new. Now rockered skis are being carved on. Its just natural progression
May 10 2007 7:05PM
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ScratchFS91
Posts: 678 - Karma: 27
yeah i think the soft buttery pow skis will probably become more and more popular over the years as more and more people ski them. my buddy has lizzys and theyre sick
May 10 2007 7:09PM
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CMF
Posts: 1918 - Karma: 16
aye, a wonderful ski.
May 10 2007 7:10PM
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bigwhite.steeze
Posts: 8227 - Karma: 1,030
most people now that are just starting out to ride pow that use these big fat 110mm plus skis just dont get the same experience as riding narrower skis. its just not even close to the same feeling. you will never get a faceshot on a pair of uber wide reverse camber ski, with the way they ride it just wont happen. ive ridden some super fats in pow and i have to say it just wasnt as much fun. i much prefered riding in deep pow in my PE's. you have to work a bit harder with narrower skis but it just feels so much cooler when your knees are under the snow and your getting faceshots rather then sliding ontop of the pow with your skis barely penetrating. people should learn to ski pow with narrower skis to develop there pow skills first then move to bigger skis. cause the fact of the matter is that its just not the same experience.
May 10 2007 7:22PM
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casimiro
Posts: 1350 - Karma: 15
I come from oldschool skinny skis. I fought the idea of wide shaped skis for awhile, then i tried them and have enjoyed my experience on them very much so. I ride 03-04 scratch bc's. they are not too big, but compared to older skis they are giants. this year i am looking at getting some larger skis, possibly with the "rocker". I don't think all people will slide like McConkey does on some of the steeper stuff. I think it should be easier on the legs. Although I agree with the guy ^ up there. everyone should learn how to ride pow on skinnier skis. Everyone should learn the basics of skiing before getting technology to do it for them, this will give you a better skill set for skiing. As for the pros i can't wait to see what sort of options this will open up.
May 10 2007 7:36PM
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FUUUCK
Posts: 18426 - Karma: 4,888
i know what you mean, i think the prohets are as fat as skis should ever go.

but id never be on a ski skinnier than my scratch BCs in pow if i could help it. its just not the same.
May 10 2007 7:40PM
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jhackbeez
Posts: 2136 - Karma: 258
i like using narrower skis, its harder yes, but more challenging and rewarding. look at what people rode in pow like 20 years ago. they used skis that were three feet taller than them and were as wide as my wrist
May 10 2007 7:41PM
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Mahre
Posts: 2507 - Karma: 490
never say never when you dont know....
May 10 2007 7:53PM
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hollygrove
Posts: 7845 - Karma: 93
More challenging, mabye. But personally, I don't really care. Just th experience, and the feel of skiing powder is what I  like. And riding a pair of 110 waist skis in the pow, there is nothing better. I would'nt want to go fatter due to loosing manueverability, but still, fat skis are ten times more fun in teh soft stuff then narrow skis. The was you float, the way you spray,.... god damn i wish i had more time ski this past winter. But yeah, fat skis make powder THAT much better. so much more fun.
May 10 2007 7:58PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Haha, so true. But I think the days of rediculous submarining might be gone... I had this clip a while back of some guys shredding champagne pow that was consistently above their shoulders, and when their skis broke through (rarely), you could see they were old, narrow, straight skis. Wider does give you more flotation and surface area, so it would take incredibly light snow to get that same effect with Prophet 130's.

Still, I'm not at all disputing that huge ski's arent fun.
May 10 2007 8:04PM
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jhackbeez
Posts: 2136 - Karma: 258
yea, a good 100 to 110 waist is purrrfect
May 10 2007 8:05PM
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jacobski
Posts: 834 - Karma: 10
Wider skis allow the rider to apply the same basic groomer/crud turning techniques to pow riding with fewer adjustments. Back in the day I had to lean way back and jump/hop on skinny skis. I don't think you should learn how to ride pow on narrow skis, it will mess w your form. Just learn good basic turning form, then get wide skis, it's different in pow, but the transition is a lot easier, that's the beauty of technology.

I skied some Prophet 130's on a supa-deep day at Snowbird last year and I was still getting some face

Check out the best pow riding segs from last year, these guys are all getting straight-blown with fairly wide new school skis:
http://powdermag.com/events/powpoll07/video/bestpowder
Based on the ski graphics in the clips shown and other films from last year this is what they were riding:
Mark Abma/Cody Townsend-1080Guns 135-101-126'
Hugo Harrison/Dan Treadway on B squads 130-104-117'
JP Auclair-JPvsJuliens 126-103-116'
Jon Larsson-Legend Pros 124-97-116'
May 10 2007 9:35PM
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grams.
Posts: 7406 - Karma: 186
all i know if that my solly guns are probably outdated compared to all the other widths of skis now.. i do think getting past the 130's is kinda crazy, but ive never skied anything that wide
May 10 2007 9:36PM
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rugbydave
Posts: 770 - Karma: 9
The dude saying ski narrow skis, blah blah blah is full of shit. My buddy made that same argument in the old part of powder, Duelling Banjos more than 10 years ago. McConkey shut him down pretty good, comparing him to Bob Dole...

I must ski with magic skis on magic snow cause I had fuckloads of faceshots this winter with my 189 Squads (104 underfoot) and 185 Kingswood Fats (116 underfoot), shit, how'd that happen?

Learning on narrow skis, sure, not a bad concept, I know that's how I learned, but why would some young dude now by narrow skis for pow when there are so many better options?
May 10 2007 9:48PM
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keystoner1
Posts: 2143 - Karma: 11
pow is fun
May 10 2007 11:09PM
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Dakoulas
Posts: 2894 - Karma: 40
Butters off cliffs and a whole lot more switch riding...
May 10 2007 11:12PM
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tjski
Posts: 5859 - Karma: 44
i like where show and prove took pow skiing, in trees and still huckin tricks off pillows and cliffs.
May 10 2007 11:13PM
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steezerampage
Posts: 2171 - Karma: 214
Ya dam right. You can't say anything about the spatulas and Shane being not good compared to the new skis because if it wasn't Shane making the spatula none of these new skis would exist. The whole sect of new pow pow skis should all be credited to his thinking.
May 11 2007 12:21AM
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punkrock32
Posts: 1183 - Karma: 21
exactly, plus no poles, its just more fun on smaller cliffs, smaller stuff
May 11 2007 3:01AM
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Silence
Posts: 16030 - Karma: 150
i really think JPs are a perfect ski for the pow..still have to be very skillful but wide enough to get some flotation and you can definitely get some faceshots
May 11 2007 3:09AM
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Worst.NS.Member
Posts: 703 - Karma: 11
Surface powder ski looks nice~
May 11 2007 3:21AM
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Breeze-J
Posts: 95 - Karma: 80
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2dJB3f6zSE

I dunno. In the video the guy seemed to get quite a lot of face shot on his Spat, 125mm underfoot. If the snow if light enough, you get faceshots no matter how wide skis you have.

Reverse camber/sidecut adds the "slide/schmear" effect in the pow skiing which is really cool. BUT you can (and will) still ski a lot of stuff pretty traditionally.

And yes, butters / presses on natural terrain and soft snow will be bigger for sure in the near future (that's my guess at least).

May 11 2007 3:33AM
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jacobski
Posts: 834 - Karma: 10
Word, props to Shane. He also helped pioneered the first fat pow skis back in the day. Under the specs and description of the ARG Armada said this abou McConkey:

..."with that said, the entire Armada Team thanks visionary Shane McConkey for thinking outside the box and waking up an entire sport and industry."

I still don't like the look on film of the way the Spatulas slide around instead of carve, some ski resorts have considered banning the use of them due to the danger of using them on groomers.

I think Shane probably made some improvements with the Pontoons, and hopefully rockered skis are even better in varied conditions for a pow ski.
May 11 2007 4:23AM
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snowbird4life
Posts: 2265 - Karma: 26
what dangers?
May 11 2007 5:13AM
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jacobski
Posts: 834 - Karma: 10
Kids coming into the lift line too hot on em and taking people out due to the poor stopping ability.
May 11 2007 5:17AM
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jacobski
Posts: 834 - Karma: 10
^^ This is is from a spatula article on backcountry.com:

..."while a handful of people in Utah or Alaska might be able to ski these in the right conditions, most of us don’t have a prayer at find the kind of snow the Scoops need. The Spatulas were even banned at few resorts where people would skid into turnstiles or lift lines when they couldn’t lay an edge."
May 11 2007 5:20AM
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zesty_buddy
Posts: 880 - Karma: 28
pow is the best thing ever
May 11 2007 5:39AM
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almostaskier
Posts: 13809 - Karma: 93
I dunno why, but seeing still shots of huge skis in pow takes some getting used to, like the line update on the front page, they just seem sooooo huge.

but hey it's progression, and i love it.
May 11 2007 5:51AM
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DFA79
Posts: 276 - Karma: 10
http://powdermag.com/events/powpoll07/video/bestpowder
Dooope pow segments, Jon Larsson was schralping soo deep.

I think rockered skis are the future rather than full reverse camber. I also think 130' waist should be the upper limit of fatness, any bigger is verging on rediculous, like these boards:http://www.skipass.com/guide-matos/ski/2007/duret/legende-series.html
May 11 2007 4:49PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Flex grabs for rockered soft skis!

Click for larger image
May 11 2007 6:35PM
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GrippinGs
Posts: 4960 - Karma: 196
the hellbent and ep's are the future of pow riding no doubt about that. iv had the hellbents for a lil over a month and iv never been able to do so much with so much control in pow. even on groomers and everything inbetween. rocker is opening up new doors for skiers and jibbers alike.
May 11 2007 6:46PM
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aidansheahan
Posts: 933 - Karma: 5,358
TREVOR HYATT!
May 11 2007 7:27PM
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rockymountainmilitia
Posts: 2706 - Karma: 12
if you look closely in ski porn. pep and andy and even seth in some shots are riding a rockered ak enemy. heance why the first hellbents were just the hellbent topsheet on a rockered ak enemy.

in terms of where its going to go. pollard likes to push the limits of what a ski can and will do. his EP is 127 under foot. Im guessing most rockered pow skis will have a 115-125mm waist and will measure out anywhere between the 180-195 lengths. any shorter and you wouldnt have enough running surface when riding hardpack snow.
May 11 2007 7:29PM
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scientist
Posts: 6920 - Karma: 348
nice!
May 11 2007 7:51PM
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freeskier1316
Posts: 1771 - Karma: 27
thats sick
May 11 2007 9:03PM
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rudager
Posts: 11335 - Karma: 4,624
there's pow jibbing and there's big mountian
for my opinion, fat freestyleskis shouldnt go past 120 in the waist and should have a reasonable flex on them so they dont go "fwap fwap" or just lose total control on them.

for big mountain skis, they shouldnt go past 110 in the waist and should have a good stiffness so you can just send it off shit(seths are good examples)

for rockered skis, i think its going to open up a whole new window for jibbing BC.
May 12 2007 1:53AM
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ikellen
Posts: 247 - Karma: 10
I think pillow zones are where pow skiing is going to progress. Whether it's buttering around them or just spins and grabs between pillows, they are the park jumps of the powder realm, and I think with newer, fatter park skis, this kind of skiing will get really popular.

I understand where the people skiing pow on skinnier skis are coming from when it comes to being deeper in the snow. I would counter by saying that especially when it comes to freestyle skiing and lines with obstacles (cliffs, rocks, trees, etc.), fatter skis make life much easier. Sure, I love faceshots, but I like being able to turn wherever and whenever I want to, and a good fat powder ski allows me to do this.

My one addition to that last bit is that I think the ski industry will reach a point where getting any fatter will not be the answer. As freestyle skiers, I think a lot of us realize that while fat skis are fun, there is a point where there is just too much ski to be nimble and light enough for tricks. I think this is why you are seeing skis like the hellbent, pontoon, spatula, etc., as the design used in these is more than just more width, but going beyond into the camber, sidecut and flex of these skis to get more performance without extra weight.

I think a sick ski would be a JPvJulien with a rockered tip and a tail thats closer to the width of the tip. The rockered tip allows more float and lets you ski the ski more centered and even forward on the tips. The wider tail makes switch pow skiing easier, and keeping the regular underfoot camber allows to leave the pow and get back to the lift. Armada, are you listening?
May 12 2007 2:22AM
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ride-rider
Posts: 1761 - Karma: 20
dang i want right now i want!
May 12 2007 2:30AM
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SteezePatrol
Posts: 10281 - Karma: 36
lol
May 12 2007 2:39AM
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DopeSauce
Posts: 1677 - Karma: 26
I just love the looks of the wide as rockered skis. So trick
May 12 2007 3:28AM
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