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Israel

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newschooler8924
Posts: 747 - Karma: 9

why does this country support them? they are the most violent country in the world. do you know how many laws they have broken? it openly promotes zionism as if its not the most hideous thing since nazi facism. they go into palestine and kill innocent people just because they can. and why do you not know about this? because of all the zionists in the us government. proof? type aipac into google. terrorism is bullshit, israel and the us created terrorism in 1948. iraqis and palestinians fight for the lives and are called terrorists. two of the most powerful militaries in the world have huge presences in the middle east. hammas and hezbollah and all the iraqis are no worse then us. what should they do? lay down all there weapons and let people walk all over them? wtf would you do if this country was invaded? you would rebel and become insurgents. and the enemy would label you a terrorist on its propoganda news 3 thousand miles away. if there was no zionism the world be such a peaceful place. do not percieve this as anti semitism. this has nothing to do with jews, this is about the political movement of zionism. im sure the american public thinks anna nicole smith is more important then one of our allies doing this-http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=worldNews&storyid=2007-03-08T180800Z_01_L08683927_RTRUKOC_0_US-PALESTINIANS-GIRL.xml&src=rss.

Apr 6 2007 5:38AM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Ok, so imagine for a minute that a few years from now, a bunch of countries get together and decide to make your state of New Hampshire a new country. This country will be called home for a bunch of refugees scattered around the world, so they have a place to finally call home. They just want your home to be their home. So they come in, take over the state, and run the government, where you and your family and friends are now suddenly an underrepresented and oppressed minority. Are you going to be happy about that?

The creation of the state of Israel was, and still is controversial. I think its too late to argue whether or not it should exist, as thats all in the past, and getting pissed about that will solve nothing here in the present. However, now in the present, Israel has become a lot of things I myself dislike. I'm highly opposed to the mass amounts of money our government gifts them every year, which they spend on their military and only ramp up the violence over there. There need to be successful peace talks, and our involvement in both the Arab world and Israel isnt bringing the two sides closer together. We need to take our hands off the problem so these countries realize that they do have to learn to get along and start making peace.
Apr 6 2007 9:05PM
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Luckyscs
Posts: 518 - Karma: 11
There are radicals on each side. The problem is, that the Isreali nation which is a secular country is seen as a jewish country. There  are many jews there but there are many christians and muslims. The problem is the radicals who refuse to accept each other's right to be in the land formally known as palestine. At this point, the fighting is between the civilians, not the army's. Isreal's army is pretty much a police force.
Apr 6 2007 9:07PM
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skibum1854
Posts: 1066 - Karma: 564
well first it was never a county b4, it was a british territory but that doesnt really matter because it essentially was. but its not like the jews just marched in and kicked them all out. SO many still live happily in israel today. and ofcourse the $$ our country gives them is going to the militay... they are surrounded by FAR bigger countries that all want to see them destroyed... i think israel doesnt have much of a choice then to do what tyhey are doing... but unfortunatly things arnt going to be pretty one way or the other.
Apr 6 2007 9:13PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Did I say anyone was kicked out in the scenario? No. Palestinians were expected to live alongside Israelis when the state was created, which was a bullshit assumption.
Apr 6 2007 9:19PM
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Elijah.
Posts: 9322 - Karma: 76
Look at it from BOTH points of perspective, then maybe I'll read your post.
Apr 6 2007 9:21PM
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skibum1854
Posts: 1066 - Karma: 564
there actually are alot that do and for them it works out great... abviously most people cant which is sad... but yeah... i guess this post want too relivent
Apr 6 2007 9:34PM
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Red_Shirt
Posts: 292 - Karma: 8
I'm jewish and I've written a very long paper on the subject of Israeli religious zionism post Six Day War, and I feel that religious zionism to retake the West Bank and Gaza is wrong. However, most jews in Israel are not intent on the complete and total destruction of the Arab way of life and culture like some of them are for Jews. That said, there are radicals on both sides, but they are way more prevalent on the Arab side, mainly because there are more of them. Israel's military exists because of the large threat posed by its immediate Arab neighbors and their expressed desires to have Israel wiped from the face of the earth. Thats just my two cents.
Apr 6 2007 11:51PM
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skibum1854
Posts: 1066 - Karma: 564
very well said
Apr 6 2007 11:54PM
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freestyler540
Posts: 13084 - Karma: 18,731
I think there are 2 possible reasons:
1.divide and conquer, the US whants a little control over the holy land because of this religion thing.

2.Politians are religiously inclided to help the Jews because Jewdaism is a base of christianity. By nature, judio-christians hate muslims because of the contant fighting in the middle age

Apr 6 2007 11:56PM
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Capt.Flannel
Posts: 10928 - Karma: 36
so... how many of you guys (who are preaching about the great dangers or incredible safety of Israel) have actually been to Israel?
Apr 6 2007 11:57PM
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Red_Shirt
Posts: 292 - Karma: 8
Thanks man, I just think we need to stop dwelling on the past. If we do, we'll never solve anything, it'll just be a back and forth. There must be level-headed people on both sides of the conflict who can come to a peaceful solution.
Apr 6 2007 11:58PM
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Red_Shirt
Posts: 292 - Karma: 8
I've been. When I went through Jerusalem I got stones thrown at my car. Throughout my stay I was always kind of looking over my shoulder, just more aware I guess. Maybe I'm just paranoid.
Apr 7 2007 12:01AM
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Capt.Flannel
Posts: 10928 - Karma: 36
Good good, I'm curious to find out from somebody who's been there; did you get stones thrown at you for being American or Canadian (or whatever country you're from) or because it's generally a violent area? I'm sick of kids saying "Oh it's so dangerous because that's what the news said" or "Oh it's the safest place in the world, although I've never been there."
Apr 7 2007 12:03AM
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skibum1854
Posts: 1066 - Karma: 564
i have been 4 times and im speding 9 weeks there this summer
Apr 7 2007 12:05AM
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Red_Shirt
Posts: 292 - Karma: 8
It was because I was American. I don't hold it against those people though, I mean I understand how they feel and I guess throwing stones is the only real way for them to communicate their dissatisfaction with the situation.
Apr 7 2007 12:06AM
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Capt.Flannel
Posts: 10928 - Karma: 36
did you feel like you were actually in harms way being there? Or was it just intimidation?
Apr 7 2007 12:07AM
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Red_Shirt
Posts: 292 - Karma: 8
I got a little scared, but there were soldiers around so I didn't fear for my life.
Apr 7 2007 12:08AM
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skibum1854
Posts: 1066 - Karma: 564
it is pretty safe, we only really hear abou the bad things from that area and not too much good. just when you in certain areas if you take the wrong turn your dead...and thats not just a figure of speech...your dead...but if you know where not to go its a fun and beautiful area
Apr 7 2007 12:09AM
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Capt.Flannel
Posts: 10928 - Karma: 36
thanks for the replies - it's nice getting to hear different experiences.
Apr 7 2007 12:09AM
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keasbynights
Posts: 1114 - Karma: 11
i've been to israel and i have
a. heard many gunshots
b. seen a bombing

you don't know what the fuck you are talking about
Apr 7 2007 12:18PM
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keasbynights
Posts: 1114 - Karma: 11
the creator of this thread-- comparing israel to nazis is unacceptable. seriously, shut the fuck up. you are not only offending the jewish people in this thread through your comments, but you are also leading misguided views. i will make a thread to have you banned if you don't shut the fuck up
Apr 7 2007 6:41PM
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*monsterskier*
Posts: 2671 - Karma: 61
ohh. thank you for the info
Apr 7 2007 7:53PM
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Mod
Posts: 3179 - Karma: 11
Don't thank me, I'm just the messenger.
Apr 7 2007 7:56PM
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Armanzoid
Posts: 2453 - Karma: 26
How can you say that Zionism wont overthrow Arabic culture? In Judaism to make a true holy land and complete the Jewish covenant with YHWH(God), the Jews must make their own land, the land of israel, and cleanse it of all gentiles(Non-Jewish people) Muslim or any other. Without that, the covenant with YHWH cannot be fulfilled. Its in your own Old Testament. Call me crazy, but the banishing of gentiles sure sounds a little like what happened in the '30s.
Apr 7 2007 8:09PM
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*monsterskier*
Posts: 2671 - Karma: 61
^ wat happened in da 30's? i feel so dumb not knowin any of this.. lol
Apr 7 2007 8:24PM
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KRASHED
Posts: 7803 - Karma: 466
The only country that spends less on the military than Canada does is Jamaica.
Apr 7 2007 8:57PM
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Armanzoid
Posts: 2453 - Karma: 26
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany
Apr 7 2007 9:00PM
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newschooler8924
Posts: 747 - Karma: 9
ohhh im unsulting jews? i guess jews shouldnt know what israel is doing? take your anti semteic bullshit and stick it up your ass, israel is doing what nazis did. you have no idea what is happening in palestine, im more worried about life and death then offending jews. killing thousands of innocents in the name of of religion,with no justification is fucking wrong, you are a fucking racist piece of shit you have no fucking right to censor me because you cant handle what im saying, if you think all the dead in palestine is because of the minor attack on isael which is only what hammas and hezbollah can do, minor attacks. if that justifies slaughtering innocents then i need to live a fucking country that supports that. you are so blind/
Apr 7 2007 9:15PM
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Capt.Flannel
Posts: 10928 - Karma: 36
Using such offensive language does not help prove a point, especially because I can't help but chuckle when reading your post and then glancing at your avatar.
Apr 7 2007 9:42PM
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keasbynights
Posts: 1114 - Karma: 11
Israel was subjected to unprovoked, unjustified attacks from terrorists on both the north and southern borders. Remember, it was Israel that pulled out of Lebanon. Remember, it was Israel that pulled out of Gaza, that brought her people out, that dismantled the synagogues, that moved out thousands of people from Gaza. And the result on both the north and the south have been rocket attacks. Rocket attacks from Lebanon, and rocket attacks from Gaza. Members of Hamas, that we, our country, designated a terrorist organization, penetrated a sovereign Israeli border, killed two Israeli soldiers, kidnapped another. Hezbollah, another designated terrorist organization, crossed Israel's border with Lebanon, killed eight Israeli soldiers, and took two others hostage. Both of these actions are clear acts of war. Hezbollah has possessed over 14,000 Iranian and Syrian rockets before the conflict began, has launched over 1,500 rockets into Israel, including 800 that have hit Israeli towns and communities. Since Israel withdrew from Gaza, Hamas has fired over 1,000 rockets against Israel. And Israel has responded, as any nation would, to violations of her sovereign border and to unprovoked attacks against its cities and her people.

I cannot help but ask, why do these sponsors of terrorism, why do not the governments that harbor them step up and stop this crisis? Iran and Syria provide $100 million a year it is estimated to Hezbollah. In addition to shipments of rockets, small arms, cruise missiles and other munitions. And let us be clear about the intentions of Hezbollah. Just last year, Hassan Nasrallah stated this, and I quote: "Israel is our enemy. This is an aggressive, illegal and illegitimate entity which has no future in our land. Its destiny is manifested in our motto: Death to Israel." And Hamas, through its charter, pledges this: "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam obliterates it. Just as it has obliterated others before. " Now these intentions make one thing abundantly clear: Israel is not fighting just to protect its citizens. It is fighting to secure its borders, it is fighting for its very existence. Because if Hezbollah and Hamas are able to attack and attack and attack, one day, those borders will not be sovereign anymore. They will deteriorate, they will disintegrate, and that's what we must prevent from happening.

But I also believe we must think of Israel's long-term survival. Yes, we would all like a ceasefire, a cessation of the violence. But that must also come hand in hand with measures that will lead to the disarmament of Hezbollah. The moderate Arab nations and the world's leaders must stand up and denounce these attacks.
Apr 7 2007 11:28PM
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keasbynights
Posts: 1114 - Karma: 11
that's just another side of the past war in lebanon you fascist bitch. go jerk of to mario you dumb fuck.
Apr 7 2007 11:29PM
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newschooler8924
Posts: 747 - Karma: 9

unprovoked? unjustified? yea you know nothing. people like you disgust me.

Apr 7 2007 11:35PM
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keasbynights
Posts: 1114 - Karma: 11
and people like you disgust me. where did you get all of your information? before passing judgment, you've got to hear both sides of an argument. now i do not completely support israel. i was merely providing some counter argument because, to be honest, you sound like a dumb, uninformed human being.
Apr 7 2007 11:40PM
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newschooler8924
Posts: 747 - Karma: 9
israel is illegaly in palestine killing thousands of innocents then when people rebel against there occupation they are called terrorists yet israel is the victim here.
Apr 7 2007 11:46PM
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keasbynights
Posts: 1114 - Karma: 11
do you how israel got gaza
Apr 7 2007 11:49PM
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Gigantaface
Posts: 582 - Karma: 10
The following accuratley sums up the attitude of Israel: My firends uncle used to live in palestine. He lived in a place where Isreal decided they wanted to build a jewish settlement. My friends uncle did not want to leave his home se he stayed in his house. The Israeli army walked into the house and shot his 2 year old dughter in the head, and bulldozed the house. If you even try to defend Isreal on this, then you are a sick bastard.
Apr 7 2007 11:56PM
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skibum1854
Posts: 1066 - Karma: 564
obviously that is some of the most fucked up shit i have ever head, but how can you "accuratley sum up the attitude of israel" based on that one occurance?
Apr 8 2007 6:32PM
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skogenjake
Posts: 6685 - Karma: 511
A: how old are you?
B: if you think any of what you heard about israel is bad, try taking a look at africa. it'll put some stuff in perspective for you. if you want to read some good books, PM me
Apr 8 2007 7:26PM
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newschooler8924
Posts: 747 - Karma: 9
there is a difference because the united states does not support the groups in africa who slaughter all those people
Apr 8 2007 7:37PM
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skibum1854
Posts: 1066 - Karma: 564
what are you talking about?
Apr 8 2007 7:38PM
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Capt.Flannel
Posts: 10928 - Karma: 36
How does that matter in the general sense of what is right or wrong? Just because the US supports something doesn't make it OK or right. Unless I'm misunderstanding your comment.
Apr 8 2007 7:39PM
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newschooler8924
Posts: 747 - Karma: 9
no you are misunderstanding me, it doesnt make anything right or wrong but im saying there is at least a difference, because what israel is doing while not as bad as the genocide in africa are country is supporting it
Apr 8 2007 7:47PM
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newschooler8924
Posts: 747 - Karma: 9
actually scratch that, the us supporting israel makes it worse because we are supposed to be the model for a succesful democracy
Apr 8 2007 7:49PM
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Capt.Flannel
Posts: 10928 - Karma: 36
Misunderstood what you said, I apologize. Still not totally clear on your point though, as the magnitude of a bad situation shouldn't be ranked in accordance to who supports which action.
Apr 8 2007 7:49PM
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keasbynights
Posts: 1114 - Karma: 11
you are unintelligent
Apr 9 2007 10:41AM
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skogenjake
Posts: 6685 - Karma: 511
yeah im talking about the hundreds of thousands that are dying and the millions already gone
Apr 9 2007 7:57PM
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newschooler8924
Posts: 747 - Karma: 9
does nobody see that there is a difference because israel is one of our biggest allies????
Apr 9 2007 8:19PM
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Vibe12
Posts: 50 - Karma: 11
Israel does not target innocent civilians, there are is calatorial damagge in all war the problem is they will literally use there kids as human shields. With that being said they hide munitions in schools and hospitals where it is politically in correct to target. These are truly evil ppl not the Zionist state that is just trying to hold its ground thru the shelling and rockets being fired every day. -Nate IDF
Nov 29 2012 6:45AM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24725 - Karma: 29,944
StartFragment

Oh jeez this thread is full of ridiculousness. Guys you need to understand the history here.

Basically, this is what shit's like over there... during the early 20th century, and during/right after WW2, there was a zionist led Jewish migration to the area... in 48 when the British mandate was to expire, there was a decent sized minority in a land that had been mostly controlled by the Turks for ages and ages, and had been controlled by the British for almost 30 years. The Palestinians had never really had their own state in the area, because they were always controlled by large empires in the region and abroad.

So when they FINALLY had their chance to run their own state, and own all the land in the area, they were shot down by this idea that JEWS who hadn't even REALLY been there for that long (for most, >30 years) were getting huge areas of land they considered THEIRS? Oh HEEELLLL NO...

So... the Jews quickly agreed to the 2 state idea, that would divide the palestinian lands as it was... The Palestinians were like WTF?! and said NO WAY DUDE... THAT'S OUR KOOL AID...

So then all the other arab states in the area started going all psycho over it and started throwing stones... and we had the shitshow in 48 that lead to Israel getting their country, and even more land when they somehow pulled off a victory...

so then nearly 20 years later, a pre-emptive airstrike that straight up ruined the air forces of Syria and Egypt, and they rolled in an they won even MORE land in 1967... Controlling the Sinai and Golan heights... this totally made all the arab countries even more ripshit pissed off.

6 years later, on Yom Kippur, Syria and Egypt suckerpunched israel, and had enough SAM sites from the USSR to hold off Israel's air support (their strength). Eventually a cease fire ended the war, and within 10 years, Israel and Egypt had mended their issues (for the most part) and Egypt even recognized Israel as a country and not an occupation like everyone else did...



So now that the Palestinians had lost some outside support, they had to do their own thing... and Arafat started these 'infitada' things.. which incited tons of bombings and suicide bombers to blow up buses and transportation lines in Tel Aviv and other Israeli cities... the 2nd one caused some 4000 casualties from both sides, and made Israel so freaked that they did a reverse Berlin and built a wall around the West Bank and Gaza... not to keep their people in, but to keep the Palestinians out...

...but they did it all screwed-up like and built the wall around certain areas of the west bank that they seemed to like more.. and put up Israeli settlements... kicking out the Palestinians from where they were living, and building a wall to keep them out. Super fucked up, even thought the Palestinians were starting to go pretty apeshit and had a bit of a blood-feud going that they just wouldn't give up, even if it meant that they got their own state - they wanted all of the land in Palestine/Israel, not just a 25x7 mile strip of desert on the sea, and a highland area that cut off most entry points to Jerusalem to them.

Basically the Palestinians are all or nothing, and Israel was sick of their shit… And especially the shit that the Palestinian leaders had pulled for years on end.

So now we have a civil war in Syria, A revolution in Egypt, Tunisia, and Libya, A really goofy ‘government’ in Iraq, a really psychotic government in Iran, Rocket armed Hezbollah in Lebanon to the north, Rocket armed Hamas in Gaza to the south, a West Bank that’s getting eaten up by a 8m tall wall, and cut off from Jerusalem even more, (and with a government who is very cain and abel with Gaza’s Hamas… so they don’t even freaking agree), and the only one of Israel’s neighbors who isn’t going through mad bullshit is Jordan who is too busy fapping off to pictures of their hot queen to give a shit about Israel.. and even they had some uprisings…

So ultimately, the region is a shitshow, and it’s not all just the Palestinians… or the Israelis… it’s everyones fault.

So why is the USA involved? It’s a perfect place to test their weapons on the world stage. Military Industrial Complex… same shit the Nazis and Commies did in Spain in the 30’s…

And Israel buys a lot of this shit anyways, so whatever eh?

EndFragment


Nov 29 2012 8:02AM
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Vibe12
Posts: 50 - Karma: 11
Very well put basically it's a shitshow
Nov 29 2012 8:17AM
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