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FKS ripping out thread.

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fakie_jibber
Posts: 341 - Karma: 10
Ok, here's the deal. I just ordred myself a pair of '07 fujatives with a pair of FKS 155 bindings. Now I was recently read that bending the brake will now longer be my biggest worry. Some of the guys on here who have already bought these and had them rip out, this thread is for you. The guys with them on them for a while can also answer, to comapre. I think this could help alot (not just me, but anybody for knowledge in the long run.) I was wondering if u guys could just asnwer these questions to see if the skis-binding is a rip-out prone setup:

Skis used:
Bindings (Rossi fks or Look P. model.. 12-15-15):
Did u use glue ? (wood, expoxy, other?)
Mounting point:
Cetified tech did the job?
Any heli coils?
Any more precautions to take?
How did they rip out ?

Now I know this is a bit long, but the more info could help me, and some other guys, see before mounting if that's the best possible match up or not. Thanks
Oct 19 2006 11:23AM
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ski_cartel
Posts: 6598 - Karma: 18
"Skis used:
Bindings (Rossi fks or Look P. model.. 12-15-15):
Did u use glue ? (wood, expoxy, other?)
Mounting point:
Cetified tech did the job?
Any heli coils?
Any more precautions to take?
How did they rip out ?"

to answer your qestions one at a time
-all techs worth their salt use glue, its ushually wood glue so that you can actually take the binding off at some point if you chose to do so
-mounting point will have little to do with the fact that the binder ripping out unless the skis core was compromised at some point
-always get a tech to do they job, if the mounting fucks up then you know who to blame, if its not their fault then they will tell you who to blame
-heli coils are unnessary and frankly too much work
-there is not alot more precautions you can take

-now the most important part, why they rip out. The rip out because most people(probably you included) do not need a binder that go's up to 15. Many people think they they do when they really dont. If your not 180+lbs and a ex-racer/super agressive skier you dont need the 155 or the 185. Because you dont have the weight/agression when skiing and you have the binder set on a high din when you crash the binding stay with you, when if it was set up properly the ski would have fallen off. After this happens a few times stress is created and your just asking for the binder to rip out. The best advice i can give you is to either get a binding that is actually for you or set the din properly for you, not how you think it should be set
Oct 19 2006 12:05PM
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Pipe_Munky
Posts: 10888 - Karma: 2,184
agreed. get yourself a px12 jib instead. you can get a wide brake for it and it'll be safer for your knees.




Oct 19 2006 12:12PM
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CTD
Posts: 6300 - Karma: 348
no. just get the FKS 12. people seem to think the 18 is all they make. thats just too strong for most people.
Oct 19 2006 1:15PM
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iggyskier
Posts: 10447 - Karma: 10,018
do remember that many people who ride race stocks do so at a reasonable din.

My s916s usually are right around 10.5, and when I used P18 I usually ran them at 10.

If you are running them higher than 12 or so for jibbing and such then you will be prone to ripping the bindings out or tearing your knee.
Oct 19 2006 1:37PM
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wrenegade
Posts: 6631 - Karma: 41
yeah I run my 916s at 10 early season, gradually up to around 12.
Oct 19 2006 1:47PM
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quebecfreestyler
Posts: 13040 - Karma: 1,419
i ripped my p16 out of triplets and they had helicoids.

i was riding at 14 tho wich explain a lot.
Oct 19 2006 1:53PM
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Love_Wins.
Posts: 5536 - Karma: -1
I've been wanting some FKS 155s, but after reading this thread, I'm thinking the FKS 120 might be enoguh for me, as I weight about 160, what do you guys think....or maybe some Pivot 12/14's? They are going on Prophet 130's and I'm either going to have to do some mad brake bending, or leash those bitches up....and I really don't want to leash them, cause I thinkif I eat it and I pop out, I have a severely large chance of cutting my own dick (or other important body part) off.
Oct 19 2006 2:43PM
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wrenegade
Posts: 6631 - Karma: 41
well the widest brake look makes period is 109mm, and thats still a lot of bending. You might want to find another binding to fit 130mm. Or you could just be hardcore, crank up the DIN, saw off the brakes and you're good to go. Not sure I'd recommned that though, your knees might get mad at you.
Oct 19 2006 2:53PM
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Love_Wins.
Posts: 5536 - Karma: -1
Yeah, I really want the pivoting heel though, I won't even look at Salomon bindings, they are way to much of a pain in the ass, with the wings and all that shit, plus I've hated every set I've ever ridden, save one, and they are a totally crappy set with a din up to like 9 that I have on my park skis and I ride them almost maxed out, not good for them, I know, but they only cost me $40 so I'm not all that worried about it. Anything else I might be open to, suggestions?
Oct 19 2006 3:04PM
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fakie_jibber
Posts: 341 - Karma: 10
Just to reply to ski cartel, I love how u are telling me to not get the binding cauz u think I don't need them. U know my weith, height, agressivness ? I'm 6'2, 190pnds, expert skier, Din at 11. The He heli coils WILL have an effect on the screw in, especially on a synthetique core. Now can somebody PLEASE answer this with a bit of intelligence. I'm just curious to know what setups were used to see if there is some sort of correlation between certain mounts and rip-outs. Why is it so god damn hard to get a decent reply on this site.

I called Rossignol this morning and they told me that they didn't know of any problems for the bindings to be mounted withouth the metal plate, to prevent rip-outs. So can someone plz answer this without telling me what I need, I've been skiing and selling skis long enough that i know what I need, I just want to prevent a useless breakage. Thank you
Oct 19 2006 4:37PM
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Ryanvdonk
Posts: 12811 - Karma: 1,971
i've heard of them ripping out of JPs, and also PRs and other foam cores.
Oct 19 2006 5:10PM
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Ryanvdonk
Posts: 12811 - Karma: 1,971
look into deadbolts, wide screw pattern, mostly metal, solid binding. also about salomon, the 914 labs and 916s are different from the rest of the 9 series and don't have the problems of say the 912tis and such.
Oct 19 2006 5:13PM
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ski_cartel
Posts: 6598 - Karma: 18
hey fuck you, you asked questions and i answered each one. Your just pissed that someone told you something you didnt want you to hear. Plain and simple the FKS line was ment to be mounted on the metal riser plate that comes in the 9s and 9x world cup ski. You want to put that on a twin tip with no riser, and mount it straight to the ski. A heli coil wont do shit, if you crash with a hard enough force to rip the binder off the ski it wont much matter if its heli coiled or not. You want some with some intelegenc to answe huh? Try having some intelegence your self first you stupid fucking kid
Oct 19 2006 5:21PM
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fakie_jibber
Posts: 341 - Karma: 10
I've been tech for the past 2 years, and salesman for the past 5. I don't know if u think u're god of skiing, but seriously man, we mounted a pair of 1260's last year with coils because of previous rip-outs (2 to be exact) and the coils stopped them. Now I know if I crash at 80mph into a wall with just the tips, chances are my bindings will rip, but so will my knees. I want a high DIN binding, I had old p14's before and I just wanted a better turntable. U're not teaching me anything on this, I'm not some newb to this industry man. I'll thank the other guys for replying with actual answers, u know the ones I was looking for when I asked the question to "owners of an actual fks rip-out binding".
Oct 19 2006 5:28PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Rossi bindings have historically been prone to ripping out because they're not well enough designed not to. Many other aspects of the binding are better than competitors', but in this case, no. The hole pattern of the old pivots was terrible for this sort of thing, and the new ones have made some marginal improvements. This is especially a problem on switch landings. The problem is, people in Europe who are in charge of all this shit absolutely do not care about anyone who might want to land switch. It's as simple as that.
Oct 19 2006 5:33PM
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Jib_This
Posts: 8272 - Karma: 9
^um, not quite JD, no need for Euro-hate...

The FKS heel has been around, more or less unchanged, for longer than any other heelpiece. It simply was not designed with switch landings and wide brakes in mind. The screw pattern is tight (I'd say tighter than anything else out there), thus making it somewhat more prone to ripping out. When you mount them on skis with either garbage cores (Pocket Rockets, Fujatives), or cores that no one knows what's in them, like the JPvsJulien, you run into more problems. Today, many of the FKS bindings are designed to be mounted on those Rossi race plates, and while you can mount on normal skis, you do, in fact, increase your "ripping out" risks.

Either way, there's basically no binding that's designed for freeskiing use (wide brakes do not make a freeski-binding), including the FKS. Look, Salomon, VIST, or Tyrolia (dear god not Marker) really need to get on that.
Oct 19 2006 6:08PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Isn't that what I just said, Simon? I mean, sure, I said "especially on switch landings", but they're simply not well designed when it comes to ripping out of skis. Okay, maybe I should've said "skis without mounting plates on them", but who rides skis with mounting plates here; I just took that as read.

And euro-hate is definitely allowed here. They really don't give a shit about us over there.
Oct 19 2006 6:19PM
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Jib_This
Posts: 8272 - Karma: 9
Yeah, but you can't hate the euros for the FKS rip out problems, it's been around for something like 20-30 years, if not more, without much change at all. We just adapted a piece of technology that was never intended to do what we do with it, and now we're bitching about it not working. Kinda like using a hammer to put in a screw, and then bitching about the screw not staying in...
Oct 19 2006 6:25PM
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Flynn
Posts: 1174 - Karma: 10
Americans can put screws in with hammers.

Europeans can't.


And that is an answer to the original post. Take it for what you will.
Oct 19 2006 6:42PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
I think my point wasn't that they didn't build it well enough for us, but rather that they don't care enough to fix it or to come up with something that DOES work. I just got new PX12s in the mail today, and the screw pattern isn't exactly encouraging any newfound faith in the binding. But we'll see, as long as you can convince those techs you work for to bend my brakes.
Oct 19 2006 9:48PM
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iggyskier
Posts: 10447 - Karma: 10,018
I think I've actually seen more P18/FKS bindings rip out than any other binding out there.

The hole pattern on the heal is just a bit too close together.  Most of the time it has been out of foam core skis, but Ive seen it happen on wood cores skis too.  I think the people using them has something to do with it too, as generally the ski pretty hard, but there is no denying that there is a slight design flaw regarding the mounting hole placement.

I am not saying there is anything wrong with the P18 as it has been one of the best binding designs ever, lasting several decades.  But, as with everything, nothing is perfect and it does have several flaws.

Regading bending the brakes, it seriously isnt that bad and Ive seen P18 mounted on Prophet 130s and Spatulas, so you can do it.

I used to love P18, used them a lot, but after skiing pretty much only s916s for 2 seasons I doubt I will go back. 




Oct 19 2006 9:55PM
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VTR1000
Posts: 28 - Karma: 10
In my eyes it is a race binding and is not designed for wider skis, as race skis are generally narrower compared to twin tip'big mountain whatever skis. Also race skis generally have a riser on them. For some reason i want to think rossignol widened the screw pattern on their axial series a few years ago when skid started to get wider and wider, because of a problem with bindings ripping out. Correct me if i'm wrong, i'd like to know for sure on the screw pattern.
Oct 19 2006 11:37PM
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ozee
Posts: 759 - Karma: 16
if Rossignol had only kept the turntable on the regular axial binding...maybe I would still be using them, but they havent. Why the hell did they change the Scratch series binding, what freeskier gives a fuck about forward pressure??? So the next best thing is the FKS. And i've gone with that.
Oct 20 2006 1:33AM
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Jib_This
Posts: 8272 - Karma: 9
Um, just about anyone who wants to stay in their bindings gives a shit about forward pressure...
Oct 20 2006 1:43AM
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Literature
Posts: 13673 - Karma: 3,085
I do. It is an important component in setting your bindings, and without it no binder on the market would work.
Oct 20 2006 1:45AM
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Spitzer
Posts: 534 - Karma: 10
Talked to a Rossi rep about this and he answered by saying that the Rossi engineers saw the benefits of a higher forward pressure to be more beneficial than a pivoting heel for the consumer line.

Besides, it's easier for them to make only 2 or 3 kinds of bindings, and put a different paint scheme on it for the Scratch line.
Oct 20 2006 1:47AM
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dorikin
Posts: 1914 - Karma: 16
If you don't want to worry about tear outs get salomons or 4frnts period. Wider mounting pattern, less of a chance. Set your din at a reasonable level and be done. If you must have a rossi/look binding so be it...but just know that you have a better chance of ripping out the heel piece. Only pair of bindings I have ever ripped out...It was a pair of Rossignol bindings on a pair of 4s mogul skis. I was like 10, weighed absolutely nothing and I tore out a binding. So...that is my experience.
Oct 20 2006 2:00AM
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johanblaze
Posts: 4987 - Karma: 345
ski_cartel, what a fucking cocksuck of a first post.

some people gave some dumbass replies in this thread. listen to iggy, j.d., and jib_this. i'll throw out some boneheaded basic answers to your origional questions to make it simple.

the skis used will make a difference. as has been said, foam cored skis usually tend to be more likely to rip out, especially with the narrow screws on the heel. if you're skiing on a foam cored ski, you should kill yourself anyways.

FKS' are a dope, solid binding. like iggy said, the basic design has survived for a few decades for good reason.

glue doesn't help a binding stay in place. it's just to prevent water from getting to the core.

mounting point does make a difference. on fujatives the binding mat is thickest when drilling between 0 and +7.5 on the mounting graph. mount further forward or behind that and you will be getting to where the ski is substantially thinner, making ripping the screws out obviously more likely. even if you do choose to mount at true center, the heels will still be on the thicker part of the mat.

a good tech can make a world of difference, and heli coils obviously make the binding much harder to rip out. if you're worried about it, go ahead and get the heli coils. they aren't going to hurt anything. if you were to rip your bindings out with heli coils... remount and give it another shot.

just put the fucking FKS' on the fujatives. that's a pretty sick steup.
Oct 20 2006 2:24AM
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ski_cartel
Posts: 6598 - Karma: 18
how was it a shitty response? I have a honest reply to every question he asked with the details he provided. Did he tell me he was set on those bindings and only wanted ways to keep them in? no, did he tell me his ability/weight/height? No. Befor you all go telling me I dont know what Im talking about consider what he told me and how I replied. If he had simply said "Im set on this set up and all I wanted to know was some ways to keep everything together I would have given him some info. Secondly If hes half as experienced as he says he is he would know what to do.
And thirdly I am someone who has ripped out a pair of both FKS 155 and 185. I also both know why it happened and that there was little I could do to prevent it, which i exactly what I told him
Oct 20 2006 11:51AM
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psychkub
Posts: 1788 - Karma: 16
Hmm, not to bring this thread back three days later, but it seems like you can avoid the ripping out problems by not cranking your DIN so high. For someone like me who's 6'2" 240lbs (actually more like 235lbs), and who loves to land switch, do you guys think I run the risk of ripping out my FKS185s out of my THA187s? Any tips on avoiding that tragedy?
Oct 23 2006 11:58AM
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