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Abortion

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twistedxfaith
Posts: 915 - Karma: 20
what are your feelings on abortion and why?
Oct 7 2006 4:08PM
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Mr_Bojangles
Posts: 2585 - Karma: 16
I'll just say this, I believe the exact opposite of absolutely everything you've said in this thread. However, this doesn't make me or anyone else in this thread who disagrees with you a bad person. Don't take the moral highground and think you're better than everyone else.
Oct 8 2006 9:53PM
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canuck
Posts: 1124 - Karma: 137
HA,,, if he takes the moral high ground then that does make him better than those who are not, if thats how you want to call it.
Oct 8 2006 10:07PM
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Sashac
Posts: 3197 - Karma: 88
I'm not trying to sway your fucking opinion. I'm pointing out how idiotic it is for you, and all the other morons here, who are comparing abortion to death penalty, cancer, living people, etc.
Oct 8 2006 11:05PM
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coofoo
Posts: 319 - Karma: 18
i love abortion as if it were one of my children
Oct 8 2006 11:09PM
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Jessbuff
Posts: 2685 - Karma: 17
I'm down with abortion. I mean honestly, every time a dude jerks off, uses a condom, sticks it in her ass etc. he kills on average 300 million sperm - potential offspring. and the vast majority of months the womans egg is expelled from her vagina to die.
Oct 8 2006 11:16PM
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JayDope
Posts: 6842 - Karma: 408
i do not think the death penalty is wrong, i agree with it 100%, they get what the deserve, and abortion and the death penalty r wayyyy diff topics
Oct 8 2006 11:34PM
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Mat.
Posts: 7167 - Karma: 94
im down with abortion as well.

and whoever threw out that selfcentered bullshit isnt evaluating their words very well.
what kind of baby wants to come into a world of poverty and instability.
having two parents that work some bullshit job like mcdonalds
living in a trailerpark
or with their mom and dad still
not getting properly looked after/taken care of
as well as not having any kind of future set out for them

I know I sure wouldnt..
Oct 8 2006 11:36PM
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Capt.Flannel
Posts: 10928 - Karma: 36
The biggest issue right now is not whether abortion is right or wrong, it's that there aren't enough (or sufficiently run) Planned Parenthood clinics or other clinics that are similarly run to help people prevent pregnancies that aren't wanted, plan futures WITH kids, and give people who are about to get abortions a chance to think about adoption (a chance, being one that is INFORMED).
Oct 8 2006 11:40PM
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Love_Wins.
Posts: 5536 - Karma: -1
Again, please don't say shit you know nothing about, I know a guy right now who dropped out in 9th grade to surf, and then a little later had a kid, and he didn't work at fuckin McDonalds, he went into the Air Force, went back to school and now is a Jetpilot Instructor/Doctor....and if you can't support the child, give it up for adoption, as it's been said in here multiple times, there are couples out there who are finacially fit and stable to care for a child, but can't have one of their own, think about how much joy you could bring to their lives, and how much guilt you could leave out of yours by not aborting. So many girls do into depressed and suicidal ways after they've had an abortion, it's sad. I don't even know why I'm arguing with you people...think what you want, it's wrong.
Oct 8 2006 11:58PM
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cmeriptahoe
Posts: 1785 - Karma: 12
i would definnitely have to say its your decisison. if you think you can handle a baby then thats cool but if you think you cant then you shouldnt. people should have to deal with the consequences of their actions but a life is far too high a price just to teach someone a lesson. most likely if they parents are young the baby will grow up disadvantaged and not have a good life because the parents will have a tough time providing. it completely changes your life when you have a kid and you should be able to decide when you want that change to happen. wear a condom... and ladies get your birth control. hah.
Oct 9 2006 12:02AM
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grubix2
Posts: 2628 - Karma: 25
See I think that is something that needs to be taken up between the two parents then. The situation needs to be looked at. But when it comes down to it, can you really force someone to have a surgical procedure???

If the girl was smart, she would go through with it. Because ultimately who is affected more by the decision?

As the father you have every right to explain the situation to her. And I'm sure she'll understand what the outcome will be of her decision:

Abortion: Clean slate for both parents. But most likely a sense of loss of moral dignity from the mother (and possibly the father). She will also have to go through the abortion procedure.

No Abortion: Mother will endure the burden of an entire gestation period, and both parent will feel the reprocussions for the rest of their lives. Both financially and responsibility.

Dude I agree with you. I mean if two people aren't capable of having a child, should we really fuck up the child's life as well as theirs by forcing them to have it??? The birth is going to affect the lives of 3 people until those people die. It's just not worth it. But a man really has no right in choosing for her. Ultimately it affects the mother more.


Oct 9 2006 12:36AM
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Mr_Bojangles
Posts: 2585 - Karma: 16
I don't like the way that people in this thread are presenting adoption as an easier option to abortion, it's not. Although an adopted child can potentially be supported and have a fantastic life, that's a minority result. I don't know what happens to kids that aren't adopted, but I reckon I'd feel better if I knew my child wasn't suffering, and the only way you can guarantee that for an unwanted child is to have an abortion.
Oct 9 2006 3:21AM
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almostaskier
Posts: 13809 - Karma: 93
Well, yah, except for the fact that these cells are only sex cells: they have 23 chromosomes, and if left alone in an ideal envirnoment, would not produce anything. They are hardly equivalent to a fertilized ovum. What of the millions of sperm that die in the uterus when the egg is actually fertilized?  A singular sperm cell and a singular egg cell is nowhere close to being a potential human being on par with a fertlized egg.
Oct 9 2006 4:30AM
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canuck
Posts: 1124 - Karma: 137
Its not about whats easier, its about what's right for the baby.
Oct 9 2006 9:38AM
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Mod
Posts: 3179 - Karma: 11
I agree with this guy
Oct 9 2006 9:42AM
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Love_Wins.
Posts: 5536 - Karma: -1
Thank you. End of story.
Oct 9 2006 11:18AM
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skicraze123
Posts: 1393 - Karma: 12
don't bring a kid into this world if you can't take care of it and give it a good life
Oct 9 2006 11:32AM
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Jernt
Posts: 838 - Karma: 96
I find life to be very important, whether a fetus or an offender.

I once heard an opiion that I don't necessarily agree with but I found it interesting/funny. "abortion should be allowed but after that the people should be made sterile"

I know I may get crap for that but something to think about.

As far as those few situations, rape, possibility of death to mother, where it may necessary, I don;t know what I think. I would be freaked to ever have to be involved in the decision between the posibility of my wife and child dying or just the child. like I say life is so important to me.
Oct 9 2006 11:57AM
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almostaskier
Posts: 13809 - Karma: 93
You seem to ignore a certain question, which is this: how can you know that the potential kid would not have rather lived, albeit not in the most desirable situation, that to have never lived at all?

You can't really make that distinction.
Oct 9 2006 12:22PM
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almostaskier
Posts: 13809 - Karma: 93
*How can you know that the child would have rather not lived at all than live in his current condition.
Oct 9 2006 12:24PM
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Jessbuff
Posts: 2685 - Karma: 17
pwned

To be honest man, I haven't really put a whole lot of thought into the issue (obviously). It's just been a gut reflex to suport abortion. I just feel like I would like to have a choice as to whether or not I have a kid. But then again, it's more or less a non-issue for me because I practise safe sex. But if the fucking condom breaks or there's aproblem with the birth control pill through no fault of my own, I would like to have a way out. you know. I don't want to be stuck taking care of a baby that I don't want. I mean that's no way for the kid to grow up. And I mean, fuck, I've seen a close friend's dreams shattered by an unwated pregnancy. The poor guy had to sell his truck, drop out of school and now he's changing oil instead of going to college to learn how to manage his own garage and build hot rods from the ground up which was his dream since he was 6 years old.
Oct 9 2006 12:53PM
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almostaskier
Posts: 13809 - Karma: 93
That's the reason why i pose this question:

Why is it that, even if we all know that having sex can lead to having a kid, even if you take precautions, people still insist on being sexually active before they are in a situation to take care of any unforseen events. Im not necessarily talking about marriage, but why not wait until one is in a situation, both financially and emotionally, to take care of any "accidents", if you wish to use that terminology for potential human life.

Seriously, it seems like only in this area, do people so carelessly assume they have a God given right to enjoy the pleasure and never even have to worry about what happens if it goes wrong.

We all love to ski, and if you apply the same mentality, it's as if in your training years as a skier you should be allowed full reign on the expert park, to enjoy it as much as you want, without ever having to deal with the consequences of not being ready for the task. If you don't get hurt, great! But if you do... well, you can't take a pill to mend a broken head.

Why is it in all other aspects of life it seems you cannot wish the accidents away, yet here, dealing with a potential someone, it is just that easy?
Oct 9 2006 1:24PM
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srwinnsuco
Posts: 2943 - Karma: 1,472
you are all so silly
Oct 9 2006 1:29PM
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Capt.Flannel
Posts: 10928 - Karma: 36
PLEASE, Do NOT say that you support abortion; it just sounds awful. Say that you are pro-choice. pro-abortion seems so morbid.
Oct 9 2006 1:41PM
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fillup
Posts: 4904 - Karma: 568
Oct 9 2006 2:00PM
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grubix2
Posts: 2628 - Karma: 25
You tried to refute a genreralization with a case specific scenario. Tell me something... who took care of the child while he went of on his little military/college adventure. I'm sure he didn't have the crib next to his bunk in the barracks.

I'm going to assume that the mother took care of the child. Most likely with the aid of her family (and perhaps his family). Do you know how many times this actually happens? The numbers are very small. The majority of cases are as previously mentioned. You have to remember, most teenage pregnacies occur in lower income households. A lot of these teenagers have parents that are split up already. They live in a world full of negativity already.

I go to the University of Pittsburgh, and I live in a urban area. 5 blocks from my apartment there is a clinic where a lot of poverty stricken, black, mothers bring in their children. Is there a "father"? No. Do you have any idea how hard it is on these mothers? And now we're allowing the chain to continue. These children are going to be raised in a world surrounded in what their parents were raised in. Now, yes I realize that they have made a terrible decision. But, should we allow them to curse themselves as well as the child to the life that has plagued so many??? Would you want to grow up in a world, centered around violence, drugs, etc??? Just to save this potential "life" that you speak of.

I think it's so ironic that very conservative people hate biology for things like evolution, but resort to using it to support their view on abortion.

"It has a metabolic rate and stuff so therefore it's alive. And if you kill something that's alive it's murder. And thus abortion = murder."

Perhaps we can search some biblical texts for what the meaning of life really is.


Oct 9 2006 5:04PM
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n-o
Posts: 3457 - Karma: 41
i certainly agree, although just because it is a mistake doesnt mean they wont be great parents and it will be all bad, my cousin got his gf pregnant when they were 18 and at they stuck it through, had the kid, saved up money moved together, got married and just ahd another kid last year, his first kid is now in sr. kindergarten and he is 26. but i def think that it should be an option, cause if the parent doesnt want the kid, then the kid is gonn have a terrble childhood, even though it is wrong to kill humans and all
Oct 9 2006 5:24PM
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youRsmellA
Posts: 349 - Karma: 236
you just scramble it's brains and i'll queef it out:)
Oct 9 2006 5:48PM
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RKF
Posts: 1527 - Karma: 342
DAMN! I wish I got in on this debate a little earlier.

But yeah, I have read this whole thread and some good points on the Pro-choice side, and some good points on the pro-life side, But the best point I saw on the pro-life side was that it is a hard decision for the woman and to make it easier she shouldnt have a choice. all the other arguaments about it being murder are from people who i doubt have taken anything more than grade 10 biology, most countries as far as I know have a deadline as to when a baby can be aborted, now if you have studied the development of a human fetus, the nervous system and the reproductive system are the last two things to form, and the reproductive system develops in the last 8-6 weeks, and the nervous system develops in the last 10-6 weeks on average. so if the fetus still has 10 or even 12 weeks left, then it doesnt have any feeling or nerves or anything at all really, so there is no reason why anytime before that, a woman cant decide she is un-prepared to have a child and make the decision to abort. and if you look at even earlier abortions (when most happen) after only a couple months, most of the cells are still stem cells and have not been specialized... cancer is unspecialized cells and many tumors are bigger then the clump that is being aborted, so is removing a tumor murdering a bunch of cells, NO it is considered saving the life of that person, and if not saving then enhancing the quality. and many womens (and mens) lives will not be nearly the quality they could be if they have a baby when they are not ready

think of the sperm wasted if a guy has a wet dream, or the egg that is wasted when a girl has her period. these could all potentially be a baby, and we as a society have created the technology to provide this option, same as we have created the technology to travel quickly, and live in one area instead living nomadically. abortion is a step in technology our society has taken. and women do have a tough choice to make, and i am sure for many who have had abortions if they had been able to provide a good life for thier baby they wouldnt have chosen abortion. the point is, the fetus doesnt have a conscience yet, it doesnt have much of a nervous system, if it was born then it would not survive. therefore it is not yet alive. so yes it is sad that a potential life was not taken advantage of, but it is by no means murder.

as for assisted suicide, I agree that with certain rtegulations it is okay, like people above a certain age who are 100% going to spend thier days in a hospital bed and are in immense pain. because these people have a fully developed brain and can make decisions for themselves, an unborn fetus doesnt have that ability.

and death penalty's... that stuff isnt fly, because these people do have a conscience and usually dont want to die, and make a mistake and should have a second chance after a certain time in a correctional facility. and it doesnt cost alot of money to keep them in prison because they dont have a high quality of living in prison.
Oct 9 2006 6:10PM
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WeeLilMen
Posts: 318 - Karma: 10
first off, im easily pro choice, i was in the pro choice march in DC a couple years ago where i believe over a million people marched alongside me
i myself have two female aquaintances who both have had abortions, both say it was a painful experience but would probably be a lot less painful then actually giving birth.
abortion is an experience but its not life changing like birth, both of these females continue to have sex and are comforted by the fact that the option of abortion is open.
on the topic of giving birth to this baby.... there are a lot worse things in life than death, all the pro life people in this debate keep referencing adoption, yet there are thousands if not millions of children, babies included, waiting to be adopted, many of them are not and have to go through the harsh times of the foster care system.
if you dont believe in abortion, how about the day after pill, same thing as abortion, just way sooner.
the prison thing is bullshit, because death is the easy way out, why do u think there are so many murder-suicides, because the murderer doesnt want to go to prison, easy way out, bullet to the head, whereas 3 consecutive life sentences in a maximum security prison is the earthly equivilant to hell. i completely argree with sashac. also i dont believe u can get an abortion after 3 months of pregnancy, before then they "baby" resembles the same form of any mammal b4 birth and is therefore, not human


thats my 2 cents
Oct 9 2006 6:32PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Lots of people in this world have kids that arent financially prepared - take like... Africa. I dont think money plays into it as equally as emotion. But that may just be a matter of opinion. Still...

Using you analogy, we all go skiing. We all push ourselves to do better, do bigger and better tricks, ski crazier lines, drop bigger cliffs... and for what? The adrenaline rush. Because skiing is fun. But skiing is like sex (in yet another way) because when you're say, dropping a cliff, the main thing going through your mind isnt "What could be the disasterous ramifications should the snow not be as soft as I predict upon my landing?" For me, the only thing running through my mind in the air is "HOOOOOOOOLY SHIIIIII-" (I usually grunt out the 't' on my landing). The point is, you're never thinking of the consequences while you're doing something fun. Yes, you can plan and prepare, and make appropriate precautions, like checking the snow underneath for rocks and stuff, but honestly, for anyone thats had sex, what are you thinking about most while doing it?

And how much fun would life be if we thought about possible consequences every time we did something? Would skiing be fun anymore if we were paranoid about falling down? Would sex be fun anymore? You take an acceptable risk for your pursuit of happiness, whether that be training on water ramps for your tricks during the summer or just using a condom.

So what then, we shouldnt ski untill we have enough money to pay for our possible medical bills and untill we are all emotionally ready to never be able to walk again? Not one of us can do that, yet we all still take the risk and go skiing every year. Yes, if we abstained, we wouldnt even get into any of this, but then again, we would never ski, and miss out on all the fun. I think that the majority of us know that as long as we are responsible and make good decisions, we'll never have to worry about the possible disasters that can occur when we're skiing. Sex is like that too. As long as you take precautions, it can be really fun and enjoyable.


And having an abortion is far from just wiping clean an accident. Abortions can emotionally scar girls for life, and I myself would have a hard time getting over it too. Its definently not an easy process emotionally for the parents. However, when a child is born to unprepared parents, that pain and unhappiness now effects three people and lasts a lifetime.

Oct 9 2006 6:58PM
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feezy
Posts: 2022 - Karma: 23
abortion is murder.
people shouldnt have sex unless they are married.

but since that is completely unreasonable i think that abortion should be legal because our country is fucked up enough and i dont want any more fucking jackasses raised by the system and a fucking 16 year old mom running around.
Oct 9 2006 8:06PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Yeah, I think thats one of the stupidest ideas as well. What the hell are you supposed to do if you get married, then find out that you and your new wife dont click at all in bed? Sex is part of the attraction to a person, and if I'm going to marry them and stay with them for the rest of my life, I definently want to know that she'll be amazing sexually. Just assuming that you'll work sexually is dumb, its like blindly betting... sometimes it works, but what happens if it doesnt? Not worth it...
Oct 9 2006 8:22PM
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Forum*
Posts: 3455 - Karma: 10
Wasn't there a crazy ass abortion thread a long time ago?
Oct 9 2006 8:37PM
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Myke
Posts: 937 - Karma: 11
I support this answer.
Oct 9 2006 9:40PM
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Mat.
Posts: 7167 - Karma: 94
yeah same, the jackass know-it-all who keeps ranting on everyones opinion is going nowhere with this thread.

except adding pages to it.
its quite humourus though.
Oct 9 2006 9:50PM
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Mr_Bojangles
Posts: 2585 - Karma: 16
No we can't make a distinction, but we can make a decision, and that decision is up to the mother.
Oct 10 2006 2:53AM
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Mr_Bojangles
Posts: 2585 - Karma: 16
And that's hit the nail on the head as to what fundamentally separates pro-life and pro-choice.
Oct 10 2006 2:55AM
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SteezePatrol
Posts: 10281 - Karma: 36
i think it should be a law that all black women have to get an abortion so we can could down there dirty population
Oct 10 2006 3:08AM
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SiverMike
Posts: 2367 - Karma: 13
Stop trying to sound intelligent. This world would be a much better place if your mommy had gone the route of the rusty coathanger.
Oct 10 2006 6:33AM
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Capt.Flannel
Posts: 10928 - Karma: 36
Why don't you do something about it then and run for something in politics? Or even vote for females to be in the senate/HOR?
Oct 10 2006 10:58AM
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NGA
Posts: 1458 - Karma: 186
bitch pleaaaaz

ther would be no world if sasha wasnt here
Oct 10 2006 11:32AM
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Lé.Skiing
Posts: 10035 - Karma: 8,128
i completely agree.. shit happens.. and most of the time shit cant be helped.. you cant stop every sperm, i mean theres a bajillion of them... and the number keeps growing... its like trying to stop all of china invading some country...
Oct 10 2006 11:49AM
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anitaskis
Posts: 767 - Karma: 10
it's a woman's choice.
Dec 8 2006 9:21PM
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ECGove
Posts: 1947 - Karma: 75
perfect answer
Dec 8 2006 10:06PM
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zepscratch
Posts: 3517 - Karma: 36
i think thats kind of ignorant, if you truly love a person sex shouldnt be super important, its like a perk. but people tend to think that if the sex is really good then your in love and should get married, that might also explain a high divorce rate. idk but thats just what i think.
Dec 8 2006 10:11PM
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Forum*
Posts: 3455 - Karma: 10
Woo here goes a nother contrivercial thread.

Well I'm not saying abortion is good nor bad. People tend to abuse it, and that's bad. But if the mother is in any danger then an abortion would be accptible.
Dec 8 2006 10:15PM
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derbski
Posts: 3173 - Karma: 62
you know what, i havent read all of the posts, cause there are too many, but im gunna say something. I am pro choice, and i fully agree that everybody has the right to hold their own opinion on the issue. I am a catholic, and if they say abortion is a sin. thats their choice, and their right to it. But think about it, should your standards be forced on somebody else? I hate abortions, i wish they would never have to happen, and i would be happier to see an unplanned pregnancy result in adoption than abortion anyday. but, if somebody else thinks that it is nessesary, and they cant handle it, its their choice, do you think they feel happy about killing a fetus?

Another thing, if you think that abortion should be illegal, stand up for what you believe, vote against abortion, whatever. BUT certain organizations such as missionaries to the preborn piss me off. They recently came to my town with their families, rented out my old schools gym under a different name, and they slept in the gym for 3 days, with a bus parked in the parking lot with 20 foot pictures of bloody fetuses. They drove this us in populated areas, where any child could see this. My friend almost threw up when he saw it, and he was 16, and kids of all ages could see this, and the freaks in this group brought their kids to go up to people going into the clinic screaming mommy dont kill me dont kill me. They were started in the early nineties, and their founder brought around a fetus in a tupperware container, that was later determined to be a stillborn, not an abortion. so if these fuckers ever come to your town, please do as i did and blow an airhorn into the gym that they are sleeping in at midnight
Dec 8 2006 10:28PM
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truckerhucker
Posts: 656 - Karma: 32
dude At eight to nine weeks the eyelids have begun forming and hair appears. By the ninth and tenth weeks the preborn child sucks his/her thumb, turns somersaults, jumps, can squint to close out light, frown, swallow, and move his/her tongue.
At this early stage of development, suction abortions are performed.

your killing a child u have to be blind to not realize this
Dec 9 2006 12:21AM
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St.Steezy
Posts: 4228 - Karma: 20
I think abortion should remain available. Its not always fair to bring a child into a world where the mother is suffering even more.

And on another note a good song that deals with this issue is called

Flipsyde - Happy Birthday
Dec 9 2006 3:25AM
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