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Serious issue

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FuckThePolice
Posts: 2088 - Karma: 17
dont let any personal shit into this thread. you can hate me , despise me whatever but this is serious. a friend of mine sent this to me


In regards to HR 6166

Liberal opposition mainly centered around the morality – or, rather, immorality – of torture, but the debate largely ignored the ticking time-bomb at the heart of this legislation, scheduled to go off, perhaps, in tandem with some future crisis, e.g., another terrorist attack on American soil: the redefinition of the "unlawful combatant" concept that lays the foundations for this administration's reconstruction of the gulag. Here is the new, broadened definition, as enunciated in the legislation recently passed by the House:

"The term 'unlawful enemy combatant' means – (i) a person who has engaged in hostilities or who has purposefully and materially supported hostilities against the United States or its co-belligerents who is not a lawful enemy combatant (including a person who is part of the Taliban, al-Qaeda, or associated forces); or (ii) a person who, before, on, or after the date of the enactment of the Military Commissions Act of 2006, has been determined to be an unlawful enemy combatant by a Combatant Status Review Tribunal or another competent tribunal established under the authority of the president or the secretary of defense."

It doesn't say "alien" or "terrorist," although it specifically includes members of the Taliban and al-Qaeda. It says "person" – any person, including American citizens.



if you want the rest send me a message.
Oct 2 2006 10:31PM
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wAy2sTeEzY4u
Posts: 5449 - Karma: 20
yea id say terrorists deserve a fair trial, its not like they are an enemy combatant or anything. they should just get parol in the us right, they wont do anything rash in the meantime. we should just make them u.s citizens after we find them on the battlefield fighting u.s soldiers, its the only way to be fair. ya and no way we can torture them because they treat us so kindly when they capture our soldiers, ive never heard of anyone getting their head cut off or anything...
Oct 2 2006 10:35PM
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FuckThePolice
Posts: 2088 - Karma: 17
shut the fuck up! do you realize how fucking stupid you sound? FUCK FUCK FUCK. fuck you all. you just dont get it. the united states is not a country that tortures people! what the fuck we are turning into a police state. i suggest your read it in full.
Oct 2 2006 10:41PM
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StevenSegal
Posts: 1716 - Karma: 16
yea your excerpt says nothing, not a word about torture, just thought i'd let you know
Oct 2 2006 10:43PM
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fappy
Posts: 2960 - Karma: 15
hey dumbass, read up on the geneva convention. it's something about civil liberties and humanitarian treatment. some stupid shit like that, right? nothing the united states would stand for.

and when you say 'terrorists,' you're assuming that detainees are correctly identified as said terrorists, right? too bad it's not that simple.

read this guy's story:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/26/AR2006092601480.html

in the context of making this more interesting (your argument was a piece of shit), would you condone the mistreatment/tortue of all prisoners if all the evidence you had was that each were sympathetic towards Al-quadea and other terroist networks, but not necessarily involved?
Oct 2 2006 10:50PM
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FuckThePolice
Posts: 2088 - Karma: 17

in the eyes of the neocons dissent is a terrorist act. that is horrifying. americans citizens shouldnt have to be forced to leave because they have a certain belief.

Oct 2 2006 10:58PM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
The torture is pathetic. I say if the detainees are giving the guards lip, bust their lip, and beat the shit out of those idiots.
Oct 2 2006 11:03PM
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StevenSegal
Posts: 1716 - Karma: 16
i think what he was imlying is that america needs to grow a fucking dick and stop letting anti-war sentiment undermine the mission that the U.S. embarked on in the first place, just so democrats can get votes! Do you really think that hillary clinton gives two fucks about what you or i think, NO, democrats are merely using anti-war tactics and painting a false picture of the republican party as neo-nazi warmonger for their own POLITICAL advantage. they see an opportunity to get more of their own into seats in the house, and they are riding into the fucking ground. their were no complaints from the democrats when the war started after 9/11 becuase they were on board, also becuase there was no election right around the corner. now just because they want to put more lieral butts in house seats they claim to be againts anything and everything the GOP stands for.if dems do get the seats they want, and i pray they don't for my own sake( yes i'm a member of the U.S. armed forces) they will merely cut essential spending on the military and leave our troops in harms way without the equipment and means they need to succeed in the mission they have embarked on. whether you like it or not this war needs to be won, becuase when it comes down to it a man on a jihad against the west and what it stands for will cu your fucking throat without so much as batting an eyelash, even if you are "anti-bush"
Oct 2 2006 11:05PM
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dbag37
Posts: 457 - Karma: 11
^word
Oct 2 2006 11:09PM
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StevenSegal
Posts: 1716 - Karma: 16
thank you, good to see someone has a head on their shoulders
Oct 2 2006 11:10PM
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FuckThePolice
Posts: 2088 - Karma: 17
http://www.realrepublic.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=29332#29332
Oct 2 2006 11:40PM
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StevenSegal
Posts: 1716 - Karma: 16
kid, get it through your thick skull
i don't give a fuck about some kids blog on some liberal forum website.

stop
posting
uncredible
links
Oct 2 2006 11:58PM
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StevenSegal
Posts: 1716 - Karma: 16
A PLEA TO ALL WHO READ THIS THREAD!
while reading this interpretation of this bill, and this kid's subsequent opinion on it, i would like you all to note that the above posted link "realrebublic" is run by an uneducation radical who ended his extremely biased WEBLOG with the following quote...



"This bill is the pretext to a larger plan. They plan on staging anothe rterrorist attack in order to go to war with Iran. They are ready to arrest the US public if and when they rise up against the war. We are going to have to dig in. Anyone seen the second half of the movie Braveheart? That is what I reccomend as a strategy to fix this.
_________________
We weep for the bird's cry,
but not for the blood of a fish.
Blessed are those who have voice.
-Masamune Shirow
www.antineocons.com"

IF you want to be suckered in by this rhetoric than by all means go for, i feal sorry for you, but before you beleave a word of this kids rants against america, for god's sake check his sources, they are EXTREMELY radical and biased
Oct 3 2006 12:06AM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
You've got the story straight. FuckThePolice is the dumbest kid on all of newschoolers.com
Oct 3 2006 12:18AM
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Mat.
Posts: 7167 - Karma: 94
first and last reply to this thread should have been a simple


"shut up"

or

"fuck you"
Oct 3 2006 12:39AM
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MitchPee
Posts: 8871 - Karma: 1,509
FuckThePolice, you're still a fag.
Oct 3 2006 12:39AM
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Von
Posts: 4869 - Karma: 21
I've got to agree with you on this one man. Even though i am opposed to giving terrorists the rights in given to enemy combatents in the Genveva Conventions, i think the government needs to be more clear about what they are doing. Like with the phone tapping survalince, they made it clear that they were only tapping international conversations of suspected terrorists (a nessicary and useful thing), even though the general public is retarded and uninformed and they think that the government is going to listen into them talking to there grandmothers. In this case i think they need to better dfine Unlawful Combatant becuase from what you posted it was very vauge, and could easily be used to punish protesters or people doing things like that, not just terrorists.
Oct 3 2006 1:28AM
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Von
Posts: 4869 - Karma: 21
right there, thats what i was trying to say... Americans have every right to dissent, this country wouldnt be what it is without people dissenting.
Oct 3 2006 1:29AM
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Von
Posts: 4869 - Karma: 21

      Terrorists should not have the rights that we would give to normal prisoners of war, becuase they do not follow the basic rules of war and are not associated with a country. I think that going into Iraq was a huge blunder, becuase even if Saddam did have WMD's he still wasnt an eminent threat to america. The situation in Iraq has made a mess of America's forign policy, and was probably one of the larger mistakes in our governments history. Givin that though, we do have to stay in Iraq now, and fight terror at its roots, and attempt to bring together three groups of people that hate each other into a cooperative democracy. I believe that Iran is a major threat to the US and especialy to Israel and needs to be delt with, but right now becuase of the US's blunder in Iraq and the impotence of the UN there is no one to deal with the mad mullahs. But we cant treat captured terrorists with even an once decency or compasion or anything, becuase they are the lowest levels of humanity they are savages that take the lives of innocent people to advance there facist theocratic world view.

Oct 3 2006 1:38AM
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Jaskittin
Posts: 5606 - Karma: 195
It's not the actual act of torturing the terrorist, scratch that, it is.  But more than that, it is the idea that is being promoted by our government.  By condoning the torture of terrorists, our government just gained a little more power, a little more leverage to use whenever and where ever they see fit.  It is not up to any of us, the people to decide how this power gets to be used, or abused.  It is up to the millionares that had enough money to get their asses voted into the government.  Now that the government has gotten that to pass, what keeps them from making more similar laws, laws that will infringe on the rights of Americans even more?  This is just another step in the wrong direction for the American government.  
Oct 3 2006 1:39AM
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Von
Posts: 4869 - Karma: 21

True, i am always warry of giving the federal government more power and control.

Oct 3 2006 1:42AM
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k2yeags
Posts: 2320 - Karma: 27
to the person who posted this. If you go read the ACTUAL legistation is specificly says "ALIEN illigal ememy combatent" Trust me, my english teacher tried to tell me that they were taking american citizen's rights so i looked it up
Oct 3 2006 1:47AM
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skiierman
Posts: 28699 - Karma: -5,563
Sooooo... yeah, guys I heard the government was behind 9-11.
Oct 3 2006 8:44AM
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Lé.Skiing
Posts: 10035 - Karma: 8,128
if you didnt get what he was saying.. i'm assuming it was sarcasm... cause i doubt he would have described what happened like 3 years ago (i think) when the al-quida captured some US cavilians i think and cut off the head... come to think of it, i never did see that tape, not that i'd want to, but no one ever showed me.. oh well one thing i just dont have to worry about right now... haha
Oct 3 2006 8:53AM
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aja_kiki
Posts: 2354 - Karma: 51
jea
Oct 3 2006 10:30AM
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GnarBurger
Posts: 3215 - Karma: 43
hell yeah for liberty!
Oct 3 2006 10:34AM
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StevenSegal
Posts: 1716 - Karma: 16
if you read the entire thing, not an excerpt from some kids weblog you will notice some very important things...
1.(as above noted) it includes the word ALIEN, exempting U.S. citizens
2. This bill has done NOTHING to take away the rights of U.S. citizens, you still have the same EXACT rights to a fair civil trial you had before the bill, the war, and 9/11
3. The bill SPECIFICALLY bans torture, all it does is give us more specific details into what is ok and what isn't,
I.E> blindfolding someone for days, could be considered a form of torture by a few people, but by most it wouldn't... all the bill is doing is potecting OUR troops from being accused of war crimes by making sure that the tactics they use aren't accused of being torture tactics.
4. the main purpose of this bill WAS NOT to allow u.s. soldiers to torture people! it was enacted so that we can begin to process terrorists in military trbunals so that they can be brought to justice. before many were being held and not procecuted because there was no system in place to convict them, after all they weren't US citezens making a civil (US civilian) court impossible, also they swore allegiance to no nation therefore they weren't able to be tried as prisoners of war( they fought for no sovereign nations)
Oct 3 2006 3:53PM
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