if they reinstated the draft

ok, war isnt as romantic as a lot of ppl think. And stayin alive is all about who's lucky enough not to get hit. All that shit u see, mowin down enemy troops, isnt real.
If i was asked, i would go to war, it kinda runs in my blood, but its also cuz i think that i owe something to society.











'Hey how could that fungus have fooled me?'
'because fungus is smarter then u dipshit'-Me and my locker partner discussing the stench that comes from a sealed tupperware container in our locker.
Proud member of the official NS Ogre team, and NS communist party

We'd have freedom if we didn't have a war. Bush basically manufactured this war himself. We've suspected Iraq of having weapons of mass destruction for a long time now, and we still have no evidence that they have any. It's not a question wether you'd fight for your country or not, but wether youd fight for bush's stupid games.



I was born on planet earth
a rotating ball where man comes first. it's been around, for a long long time
now it's time to watch it die.

man all you guys.... fuck i .... i... I WOULD EAT A COOKIE.



you can't touch me, nobody has that right.

NS Ogre Crew

guys, its easy to joke about this shit, understandable, but whatever opionion you have on the U.S. over there, nothing can be changed now, but keep in mind, there is troops over there, if u may know one or not, theyre there. have some respect and pray that this shit doesnt get too bad. my best friend is in the 3rd batallion traveling through iraq right now, theres marines getting killed, real shit. im scared to death if he's going to be ok or not, and i go to his parents house and comfort his mom while she crys everyday. im not ment to be a gung ho dick here, but realize how bad this shit could really get, and realize that no one is safe there, your friend, your family member your neighbor. THIS SHIT IS REAL!
sometimes when i cap landings, my nuts hurt, is that normal?

CASANOVA FREERIDE

You wanna take this outside Prins?

And despite your rather insulting assumtions (that I'm a religious American), I still think you're wrong. And what the fuck do mean 'all that we've gone through in the last two years'? What!What makes you so fucking sure that the terrorist attacks of September 11th affected me in some profound way? It's nothing but news. It's just a media circus for the bored to rally around. Look at us, we're all being sympathic together. Oh-koom-by-fucking-yah.

How's this? How about I examine what freedom really is? Eh? And then, how about I see my own entrapment and wage war on that? Not what some-one else says imprisons me, but what I feels imprisons me? Eh?

I won't even get into this. But if you want to debate about the definition of freedom, PM me.

----------------------------------------

TAK, the most perfected and self-satisfied poster on this whole sausage party of a site.

Don't be WACK
Vote TAK

I find myself, apprently thinking exactly the same as TAK on this one, why die for where you live, or what your countries done for you? coz if your dead, the whole country doing stuff for you thing, doesnt really mean FUCK!!!
Think smart, Stay true, and don't ever grow up!

wow 'we'd have freedom if there wasn't war'... that’s right because the revolutionary war didn't get us anything.... and WWII didn't free the majority of Europe from Hitler’s control... I think i might have missed something.

And for TAK, I'm not trying to piss you off, get under your skin a little, but not make you want to fight (which totally contradicts your saying about peace...). If you like it or not we are the top world super power here in the USA. I'm sorry sept 11 didn't effect you, my dad had an office on the 100th floor (AON, i think it was tower 1) that he'd use when he was in nyc on business, i went and saw the void, the people crying, the anguish it caused. (photo). To say it was some media circus is, at the least, ignorant. That day changed the world for America. If you're American, do you realize there are people who want to kill you just because you were born here? they don't care if you were mother Teresa or not, if you're American they want you dead.

As for me putting the religious spin on it, that wasn't even me... However religion is a huge part of my life, it's to bad it isn't of yours. I'm interested to hear what your freedom in and how you're so trapped. I'd encourage you to go out and fight for what you believe in instead of talking it up to someone on a message board you'll probably never meet (since with college next year I won't be skiing much). People who talk things up and don't do anything piss me off. Don't complain unless you're willing to try to fix it.

How are you so oppressed TAK I'm very interested to here this viewpoint.
God bless ~paul

I would have fought in the revolutionary war, because that would have been something worth fighting for, this isn't. And don't drag sept 11 into this because the two are not related.



I was born on planet earth
a rotating ball where man comes first. it's been around, for a long long time
now it's time to watch it die.

i do think tak has some strong points. However, believe it or not, 911 has something to do with the iraqi conflict, albeit a small thing. Iraq trained some of these 'terrorists', ('one mans terrorist is anothers freedom fighter') And its also has to do with israel. I dont wanna sound like a bigot or anything like that, but most ppl who control the media are jewish, and many jews sympathize with israel, and its 'civil' war. Bush wants good media coverage, so he has to get on the good side of the coverers. By invading iraq, he will take care of one of israels enemies, removin a threat.

However, if saddam has weapons of mass destruction, he's launching at israel, israel will retaliate, and because of so many alliances, egypt will invade israel with syria, the us will move in full force, and north korea may take advantage of that. So u see it may turn into world war. For those of u too ignorant, a world war is one fought on more then 1 continent.











'Hey how could that fungus have fooled me?'
'because fungus is smarter then u dipshit'-Me and my locker partner discussing the stench that comes from a sealed tupperware container in our locker.
Proud member of the official NS Ogre team, and NS communist party

you do sound like a bigot. 'most people who control the news are jewish' thats a load of crap. most people who control the news want to make munny, man. thats why we should do away with greedy and petty things and live in one big communist community! Koom-by-fucking-ya, koom-by-fucking-ya milord!
---------------
Official Leader of the Communist Party of Newschoolers
---------------
Official Benditto Hater
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Whoow! You know you can't bring that weak ass stuff up in this hompybompy! You kill the joe, you make some moe! You know that baby! Else you in for a long day, a looong day, 'cause Triple T's in this BIIITCH!

Iraq trained some of these 'terrorists'=false
I still fail to see how 911 has anything to do with Iraq



I was born on planet earth
a rotating ball where man comes first. it's been around, for a long long time
now it's time to watch it die.

anson, i respect some things u say, but sometimes it sounds like ure the most naive person on the planet. Just take a look at some of those names, that go by the screen during credits. Almost 1/2 of them are jewish names. I know thats totally oversimplifying, it, but if u do some research, instead of just goin on about what u think is right, then u'll find that there are a LOT of jewish ppl controling media.
Bigot-One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.
I didnt say anything like that, i am just stating a FACT not an opinion.












'Hey how could that fungus have fooled me?'
'because fungus is smarter then u dipshit'-Me and my locker partner discussing the stench that comes from a sealed tupperware container in our locker.
Proud member of the official NS Ogre team, and NS communist party

one connection of Iraq to 9/11/01, There is a fuselage located just outside of Baghdad (to the south east I believe) that has been in re-con sat imagery, they know some of the 'terrorists' trained there.

Also calling a terrorist a freedom fighter is somewhat dense. Since when has killing innocent people become something to praise or even acknowledge as admirable. You make me sick. Yes tactics of terror are used in all wars but to attack with intent to kill and scare the civilians is wrong.

Oh and you’re right, this isn’t our war in Iraq. I mean where would America be is France hadn’t helped us in our civil war against the British. I know they had different motives (wow we also do in iraq). I am thankful to the French for there support in that war, just as the Iraqi’s will be thankful for our support in theirs. When you are being as oppressed as they are you need all the help you can get.

yeah but do we really even know that they are being oppressed and that they don't like it there? sure the news says it, but we all know you can't believe everything you here, especially on tv. i really do think that if this did trun into a world war that i would really turn into a world war. meaning that all hell would break loose ie: nuclear weapons along with biological and all that other shit. i would deffinatly go to canada then, they don't really care about anything there haha


________________________________________
*Kevin Lee

prins thats a quote i heard somewhere, dont remember where, but just because i speak it, doesnt mean i believe in it.











'Hey how could that fungus have fooled me?'
'because fungus is smarter then u dipshit'-Me and my locker partner discussing the stench that comes from a sealed tupperware container in our locker.
Proud member of the official NS Ogre team, and NS communist party

thanks freezey and god be with you in the marine corps.

LovetoSki84, I'm gonna assume you were born in 1984 just like I was (may 20, 1984 for myself). which puts you on the cusp of becoming a full blown adult needing to have a job of your own and to support your family (if there is to be one). I know that it isn't my place to tell you want to believe in anything, that's for your own mind to decide. One of be beauties of freedom is that we have that choice, that you can come on here and vocalize your opinions against the gov't and there involvement in this war. The fact of the matter is that you can't say they are alright because you don't know.

I myself have read stories from Iraqi citizens about there daughters being taken from their families by the gov't and never heard from again. Stories of the rape rooms were solders and gov't officials get to do what they wish with the iraqi women. I wonder if you have a sister, and if you could picture someone taking her and defiling her very being and then tell me there is nothing oppressing about that. Or maybe you're right, the people of Iraqi LOVE saddam and this is all a giant mistake. Because people shouldn't have a voice in there gov't and should be spoon fed all of there information through gov't run media (two tv stations and two newspapers). Not be allowed to speak up against your leader in public. Because that sounds like one hell of a fun time to me….

I would be interested in hearing why you think they aren't being oppressed. To me it seems like you are stuck in a wonderland where bad things like this don't happen because they haven't happened to you. Maybe you try to push those thoughts from your mind so you can have a clear conscious about not going over there to help yourself. Please enlighten me.
~paul

something that is an interesting read, Tony Blair’s speech to the house of commons. His push for the british envolvement in the war, a long but very good read

Are you guys talking about the war in Iraq or every war that ever happened anywhere. because if your just talking about the war in Iraq why do you keep bringing so many other wars up?



I was born on planet earth
a rotating ball where man comes first. it's been around, for a long long time
now it's time to watch it die.

no, we are simply saying that the media is a jewish conspiracy to take over the world.
---------------
Official Leader of the Communist Party of Newschoolers
---------------
Official Benditto Hater
---------------
Whoow! You know you can't bring that weak ass stuff up in this hompybompy! You kill the joe, you make some moe! You know that baby! Else you in for a long day, a looong day, 'cause Triple T's in this BIIITCH!

funny anson, i'm not sure if your Semitic or not.

iliketoski, the reason i bring up other wars is because to live without the past is to be blind in the present. I read that in one of the philo books i've either read or skimmed over. You can not push to the future until you understand where you and your world have been in the past. That is the only way to learn from our mistakes or fortunes.
~paul

i never actually said that they weren't being oppressed, i simply said that MAYBE they aren't. and that maybe they are fine with their way of life. i for one wouldn't be, but why do we always have to police the world? why do we always have to force our views on the rest of the world? with great power comes great responsibility, right? that doesn't mean we can abuse our powers and force our way of life and beliefs on another culture, like we have been doing since the English landed on other contenents. i just think we should mind our own business a little bit more.

war is a necessary evil, but i really don't think it is necessary right now, i think bush and all the other people failed at the diplomatic stuff.

and don't get be wrong, i am in full support of our troops, but i am still against an oil war. i support the troops so much that i think we should bring them home.

bush is just mad that he can't drill in alaska, and he knows that if we 'free iraq' and reconstruct a new government for them we would have a better relationship with another oil rich country.

its partially our fault that saddam has biological weapons anyways. we gave him tons of weapons and inteligence back when they were fighting iran.


________________________________________
*Kevin Lee

Wow you make a lot of heavy assumptions their skilover. First off, drilling for oil in Alaska wont work. Do you know why? The octane levels aren’t what we use here in the states and the majority of that oil goes to japan.

Diplomacy is a great thing, I will give you that. Except for the fact that Saddam had no intention of ever complying. If he did he wouldn’t have been caught lying several times (the weapons declaration being the biggest one) and would have cooperated better with the inspectors that the UN sent in.

Now back to what you first said, Maybe they are fine with there way of life. I think we both know the answer to that question. Have you watched TV at all lately, seen the people rejoicing when the coalition forces have arrived to liberate them. People literally are dancing in the streets and hugging the troops. But your right maybe they enjoyed what they had before… Maybe they like Saddams son who has killed off his wife and children because he wasn’t sure if he could trust them. HE SHOT HIS OWN FAMILY. But you’re right, why should the most powerful country in the world not step in to help a people who are having a hard time helping themselves. What views are we forcing on them though, I’d really like to hear this. We aren’t forcing Christianity on them, we aren’t forcing our laws on them, we are just giving them the opportunity to live life in free air. Which is something everyone should have the opportunity to do.

So maybe we had a small roll in getting Saddam a couple weapons. Are you going to blame the parent of a 23 y/o guy who shoots someone to death just because when the kid was 14 he bought him a gun to go hunting with? He used his weapons on his own people. How horrific is that.

I’m sick of people undermining the president. How can you support the troops but then say something like, I hate your boss. What message do you think that sends to the troops you so adamantly support? 3/4th of Americans support the war because they see that their duty as an American requires them to. Or do you think you’re being patriotic by what you’re doing? I’m interested to hear that reply.

~paul

Here you go: Patriotism and supporting the war are NOT related. The most patriotic thing you can do, as a citizen, is to SPEAK YOUR MIND, whatever you may think is right/wrong. Patriotism does not = blindly following your 'leader', legislation, or the masses. Protesting might just be the MOST patriotic thing an American can do right now, and ask John McCain what he thought of anti-war protesters while he was a POW in Vietnam, his answer: something along the lines of 'that's(freedom of expression) what we were over there to protect'. Being an American who is against war does not mean you are an American who doesn't support his/her troops. Anyone who thinks that it is is missing the bigger picture, and is dangerously narrow-minded and blinded by skewed beliefs and perhaps the biased mass media(CNN, Fox News, etc)

And just to correct one thing: The US didn't have a small part in arming Saddam Hussein, it had a HUGE part in doing so. Same with Bin Laden and his crew of lunatics.

I wish people around the world, but particularly Americans, stopped equalling anti-war protesters with anti americanism and un-patriotic values, because those assumptions are BLATANTLY false and don't help the situation at hand. It's time for everyone, whether pro, anti, or undecided on war and other issues raised by the recent US(coalition? no, sorry, there are what, 3 countries fighting against iraq, and approx 99% of the soldiers in the gulf are American? nice 'coalition'...) actions to think a little harder, get informed, and maybe even talk about the issues at hand without getting into an emotional verbal boxing match over 'patriotism' and other misunderstood concepts.


Declared the biggest tool on NS.com by StepDad9000
'i'm not too bright sometimes, when i turn my mind off school'
Nolan, after I reminded him of what a verb in the past tense was.
What do I know...I'm Drunk

ok i get your point about John McCain, but isn't that also saying that we should be in Iraq to give those people the same freedoms that we have, is that accurate? Or should we use our freedoms to advocate inaction to helping others? I do like your points, jib_this actually had one of the bests posts of the thread.

I wouldn't say I'm blindly following my leader (although i know there are people who are, it's really to bad for them), I believe that everyone in the world should have the opportunity to live freely and getting rid of Saddam would improve that sentiment through out the middle east. While the US may have also had a huge part in arming Saddam the French have too, hmmm their air force consists of French aircraft (mostly the mirage if my memory serves me right) along with parts of their missiles (which they've launched at coalition forces in Kuwait).

yes it is patriotic to stand up for what you believe in. It's even more patriotic to do something about it. My point was that protesting does nothing to change opinions or get anything done. They don't sway any opinions on whats happening because if you're pro-peace you just say, 'good for them' where if you're for the war (not pro-war because I doubt anyone really wants war, but they feel it was the final and only viable solution left) you say, 'crazy people, that'll do nothing, we're already at war'.

Do i think things could have been done differently earlier on and maybe avoided the war, yes. Who do I place that blame on, solely onto the shoulders of the UN. They are quick to push for something but so weak when it comes to enforcement it is pathetic. I think that back in 1991 the UN should have done a rapid campaign and installed cameras and removed EVERYTHING that was against the first resolution. This problem never would have occurred, but the fact is that it has occurred and needs to be dealt with.

One final thought on protesters (I know there is another thread but I’m to lazy to post there since I just thought of it), I have a lot of respect for peaceful protesting which doesn’t get in the way of anything. I’ll honk at people standing on a bridge with signs to encourage them whenever I see them (just saw a couple yesterday with flags and signs). However the second you step over that line and start disrupting things is when it’s gotten out of hand. Like someone posted in the other thread (“bombing for peace is like screwing for virginity” althought I don't agree with it) Disruptive protests for peace don’t make the least bit of sense and just make the people there look immature and un-professional, so why should we listen to them at that point.

May God be with the troops and give them swift speed and judgment.
~paul

yes i was actually watching the news last night. i think it was dateline or something, but anyways they were talking about the media; the imbeds and the unilaterals. one of the first cities that the 'colalition' or whatever took over people were celebrating in the streets, but after a while the media people were talking to the iraqi sivilians. well they said that they were glad that america was coming to take sadam down, but they also said that they didn't really care that much. they wanted to know if the isrealis (sp) were coming next.
so pretty much, they didn't care that much. all that they seemed to care about is their lives being in danger. and even though we are trying to limit civilian deaths, it will still hapen. they are being shot at by both the iraqi soldiers and americans.

and later on they were talking about how even though the troops have 'concured' certain cities, that there is nobody to police them. it is unsafe for the people who live there and the media who pass through. then they showed this footage of some kids in a concured city. they were waving an iraqi flag. it just goes to show you that in a way, even the civilians are playing us. some of them are just showing us what we want to see. they are smart enough not to wave their flag when soldiers are around, but once they leave nothing has really changed in their minds.

so how is acedentally killing civilians and leaving the ones alive to live in deathly cities going to help them? its not. and now around the corner is the battle for bagdad (sp) i have a great fear that our troops will suffer way too many casualties durring this battle to make it worth it at all. and even Bush's plan to help the economy is failing. the stock market has gone back down and the price of oil has gone back up.


________________________________________
*Kevin Lee

support BLACKbox skis!!

oh yeah the protesting. i think its fine and everything, but once you start disrupting people's way of life and their rights, it is stupid and it doesn't get any point across, except that they are morons.


________________________________________
*Kevin Lee

support BLACKbox skis!!

draft kinda sucks
a professional army is 100% better they should do reservist with draft not an army

PAG