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9-11/NSA hypothetical

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will987654321
Posts: 2092 - Karma: 15
Would you support the NSA program if it was able to stop what happened on 9-11, or is it too much a breach of the constitution that preventing 9-11 would not be worth it? Post your thoughts.
Jun 11 2006 4:54PM
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720laxskier
Posts: 2428 - Karma: 5
if it stops anything equal to 9-11 then hands down we gotta do it
Jun 11 2006 4:59PM
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Lord_Piot
Posts: 3727 - Karma: 13
ummm how is the government spying on citizens going to stop the government from crashing some planes into the WTC in order to start a war to save the dollar?
Jun 11 2006 5:43PM
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shagalabagala
Posts: 2101 - Karma: 10
yeah, saving tons of lives vs. listining in on a phone conversation.....i think even lloyd christmas would pick the latter
Jun 11 2006 5:58PM
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Holte
Posts: 10743 - Karma: 7,829
oh dear, we've got a conspiracy theorist on our hands.
Jun 11 2006 6:07PM
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Lord_Piot
Posts: 3727 - Karma: 13
which part do you have a problem with?
Jun 11 2006 7:39PM
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Jake...
Posts: 11976 - Karma: 296
9-11 is my favourite day of the year.
Jun 11 2006 7:51PM
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Lord_Piot
Posts: 3727 - Karma: 13
hahaha ya

watching those planes hit is almost as good as porn
Jun 11 2006 7:58PM
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akerbacker
Posts: 2827 - Karma: 8
haha
Jun 11 2006 7:58PM
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Jake...
Posts: 11976 - Karma: 296
cuz its my birthday
Jun 11 2006 8:04PM
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akerbacker
Posts: 2827 - Karma: 8
whoa
Jun 11 2006 8:05PM
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Jake...
Posts: 11976 - Karma: 296
true story
Jun 11 2006 8:08PM
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slimbruddah
Posts: 2611 - Karma: 25
im with you on that one.
Jun 11 2006 8:50PM
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MitchPee
Posts: 8871 - Karma: 1,509
No, we already jettison too many of our freedoms daily. We do not need freedoms breached just so we can listen in on suspected phone calls. I have my freedoms, and I don't want anymore taken away.
Jun 11 2006 9:20PM
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FUUUCK
Posts: 18426 - Karma: 4,889
im siding with the government theory on this one
Jun 11 2006 9:38PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,145
Here are three different ways of making what is essentially one point.

1. You can't justify illegal and immoral acts based on what they MIGHT accomplish.

2. You can't apply ethics retroactively because they're meant to be a guide. If you can only tell what actions were right by looking back on them and seeing what happened, then we're kind of screwed as to knowing what we should do, aren't we? It's one reason consequentialism doesn't work.

3. This is kind of like saying, "If I try to kill a random 7 year old girl by shooting her in the face, and I miss and end up hitting Osama Bin Laden with the bullet instead, is it morally right to try to kill that little girl?"
Jun 11 2006 10:32PM
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CooksCorner
Posts: 3939 - Karma: 22
Uncertainty is a bitch isnt it?
Jun 11 2006 10:49PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,145
The point is of course that there is near-absolute certainty that this way of looking at how we should act, what is moral... is wrong. Yay for logic!
Jun 12 2006 12:13AM
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Itsbackfliptime
Posts: 18901 - Karma: 75
If the NSA wants to listen to me talking to my girlfriend on the phone thats fine with me. As long as they don't tease me about it.
Jun 12 2006 12:22AM
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kristie
Posts: 1667 - Karma: 214
i like you
Jun 12 2006 2:02AM
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will987654321
Posts: 2092 - Karma: 15
I think it's more like "If you think Osama Bin Laden is hiding behind a seven year old girl, but you can't see him, is it right to shoot the seven year old girl with the possibility of killing Bin Laden as well?"
Jun 13 2006 1:18PM
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chrismoJBEATS
Posts: 5898 - Karma: 44
jea
Jun 13 2006 1:20PM
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JAYTRON
Posts: 2373 - Karma: 16
we have been doing this kind of stuff forever. It's a fact that civil liberties go down in times of war. During the civil war we suspended Hepus corpus(sp) in Maryland, WWII we had intenment camps for all japs on the west coast, so whats the differance now? sure we need it.
Jun 13 2006 2:33PM
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Jake...
Posts: 11976 - Karma: 296
this is off topic kinda but i think that if you are a terrorist.. and even if you unsuccessful, if your caught, you should be killed. like.. no exceptions..
Jun 13 2006 3:19PM
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Mat.
Posts: 7167 - Karma: 94
or if your fat
Jun 13 2006 3:20PM
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Jake...
Posts: 11976 - Karma: 296
some poeple try to be serious about serious things buddy..
Jun 13 2006 3:22PM
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RKF
Posts: 1527 - Karma: 342
dude putting the japanese in internment camps did nothing, none of them had anything to do with the war, all they put them in camps for was to make the majority of the population feel safer even though they took human rights from alot of people. i dont think they should take anymore civil rights from people because it has only provided a false sence of security for those who arent affected.
Jun 13 2006 3:25PM
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will987654321
Posts: 2092 - Karma: 15
So doing immoral, irrational, and ineffective things is justified when at war? Those things were wrong, this is wrong. You honestly believe it was worth putting Japanese people in camps?
Jun 13 2006 6:16PM
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sniper_6
Posts: 1919 - Karma: 1,573
i think i agree with like 95% of everything you post in a thread. usually when im reading through a thread i think of what im going to post, then i read something thats almost verbatim what i had in my head and its always xxxscratchxxx
Jun 13 2006 6:29PM
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JAYTRON
Posts: 2373 - Karma: 16
I mean that it's necessary to have the phone tapping now. I didn't mean it to sound that internment camps were justifyable, I was just using that as an example.
I actaually wrote a paper this year comparing US actions to Japs in WW2 to the holocaust.
Jun 13 2006 6:38PM
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denver11
Posts: 805 - Karma: 10
this guy knows whats up
Jun 13 2006 7:07PM
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MitchPee
Posts: 8871 - Karma: 1,509
haha thanks I speak the truth!
Jun 13 2006 7:14PM
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newschooler7
Posts: 2253 - Karma: 21
i am 95% sure that the constitution DOES NOT give you all of your rights in a case of public saftey. someone tell me if thats wrong because it might be.
Jun 13 2006 7:53PM
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will987654321
Posts: 2092 - Karma: 15
I think that's more for the shouting fire in a crowded room scenario. It's not an enabling act.
Jun 13 2006 8:18PM
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JAYTRON
Posts: 2373 - Karma: 16
yea your right... If its a "clear and present danger" you can be denied basic rights.
Jun 13 2006 8:38PM
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will987654321
Posts: 2092 - Karma: 15
Where does it say that? I want to read it.
Jun 13 2006 8:41PM
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