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Terrorism in Canada

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freestyler540
Posts: 13083 - Karma: 18,726
As we all know (if you didn't well listen up) 4 Muslim teenagers had the intention of blowing up the parlement, attacking and kidnapping parlement members and killing our prime minister.

I hear both sides: "they are kids with nothing else to do" and "We should lock them up for life without parol".

Then, when watching documenteries on CBC, all they talk about is fear. One reporter tried to rationalise with the failiure of multi-culturism and social suppression that leads to extremism. Then, I hear a bunch of other Muslims that say they are a minority and their religion forbids them for violent action. A man blows up behind them screaming the name of Allah.

And then we get the fucked up solutions: kill all muslims, created an anti-muslim partie in defend our culture, ban religion in all (except Christianism) ect...

Well I guess this did turn into a rant. But, my point is that the media is turning this story to a horror story, people are becoming paranoid and the media can't get enough of it.We all agree something must be done, but what? If we done something, it will aggravate the situation, but if we do nothing, the situation could get worse.
great, this has become a third world war.

Jun 7 2006 10:01AM
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MitchPee
Posts: 8871 - Karma: 1,509
I really hope you aren't implying I'm right-winged after you have heard maybe 2 of my opinions on open-ended matters.

On what proof would you even consider something like this? Did you not remember the barrels of chemical weapons they found just before we invaded Iraq? Well, I do.

You should read what you are saying. You sound almost as bad as the conspiracy theorists saying Bush blew up the towers and was involved in the Kennedy assassination.

I'm sorry, but you really sound dumb because, I am NOT right wing. I am actually a tiny tiny bit to the left, but otherwise dead center.

The "facts" you are claiming are loosely based on assumption by outsiders and Americans. It all sounds so stupid the way you are putting it. You are making it sound like America is the juggernaut that will lead to apocalyptic concerns. Please don't refer to any of your statements after your think tank as facts.
Jun 7 2006 8:30PM
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will987654321
Posts: 2092 - Karma: 15
Katrina: "Helluva job, Brownie"

Iraq: I have some doubts, considering that's what we said about Iraq, and that none have been found yet. I haven't heard any proof except that trucks were seen heading into Syria. Again, I'll believe you when we find them.
Jun 7 2006 8:32PM
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Nihiriju
Posts: 2061 - Karma: 27
we didn't let them into this country, they were BORN HERE. whihc means they obviously are fucked in the ehad, or really don't liek soemhting about the way our country works.....thats why i wnat to know more about them!
Jun 7 2006 8:32PM
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MitchPee
Posts: 8871 - Karma: 1,509
As you should, I don't expect you to believe anything I say...just take it into consideration.
Jun 7 2006 8:34PM
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[fisher]
Posts: 1325 - Karma: 11
they were holding a few of the guys at a police station by my house, it was competly surounded by swat people and shit,, pretty crazy stuff
Jun 7 2006 8:37PM
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RKF
Posts: 1527 - Karma: 342
Dude... you seem to be looking for a fight because everything i said was straight out of a lecture i went to by Dr.Gwynn Dyer. he was political advisor to clinton, tony blair, and many others, you can google his name if you want he has written many books you would find interesting,

If i wanted to imply you were right wing i would have quoted you on something, that post was directed at almost everyone other than you. though i am a little shady as to why someone who claims to be a little bit left would state that violence is neccesary. but i wil let it go for the sake of peace.

Do you know what a think tank is?
you can look uo the website im sure if you type "new american century" into google you will find it.

i am not making random conspiracies.. as i said all of this information was provided to me one on one by Dr.Gwynn Dyer in a chat with him for my schol news paper after his lecture at my school. so stop attacking me about everything i say with out actually looking at what it is i am saying.

and as i also said, i am a fairly left wing person and simply look at what is going on in conservative think tanks so that i can understand both sides to the story of the world. didnt you say a few posts back that there are two sides to everything? so read over all my posts again and i will read over all yours and hopefully we can come to some sort of understanding, becuase i dont really know what side you are debating for.. as i am sure you cant tell where i really stand considering i have provided arguaments for both sides.

cheers
Jun 7 2006 8:43PM
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holyDINOSAURS
Posts: 7038 - Karma: 639
however fox news also happens to be the most influential one other than CNN. i just find it interesting that the attacks only occur in Canada AFTER "we" decide to send the troops back etc.
Jun 7 2006 8:52PM
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MitchPee
Posts: 8871 - Karma: 1,509
I'm not looking for a fight. I'm just debating. You just have to not get worked up over such a thing. Then please direct everything I said to Dr. Gwynn Dyer, because I don't agree with him. I probably wouldn't read them because he sounds like a visionary who loosely bases reality on assumptions.

I didn't say it was neccesary, I said it was inevitable. It's human nature and I realize that. Not all lefts are pacifists. Look at Stalin.

Persoanlly I grabbed the right conception of what you explained as the "think tank" and I still stand on everything I said on it.

I didn't say you were making them, just suppourting them. I am also not attacking you. I am giving you the other end. I am doing the best I can to interperate what you are saying. I don't stand on one side or the other. I am looking at the situation from a whole. It seemed to me like you were declaring your statements from a one-sided perspective, but hey, it's the internet.
Jun 7 2006 8:52PM
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Leckett
Posts: 0 - Karma: 13
i love these political debates
Jun 7 2006 8:53PM
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MitchPee
Posts: 8871 - Karma: 1,509
me too
Jun 7 2006 8:58PM
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RKF
Posts: 1527 - Karma: 342
its good for procrastinating.
Jun 7 2006 9:10PM
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traer
Posts: 690 - Karma: 12
Thats not the ONLY reason although everyone on NS loves to dwell on it. Osama Bin Laden listen Canada on his list of countries that threaten Islam, along with others I'm trying to find it but have been unsuccessful.
Jun 7 2006 9:40PM
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traer
Posts: 690 - Karma: 12
listed*
Jun 7 2006 9:41PM
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Nihiriju
Posts: 2061 - Karma: 27
haha thats soo funny, whata foool, honestly we are not going to cause them harm, and if he's worried about us supressing them we have huge muslim communties in canada, so that is also false.... wierd guy he is...must just hate us all, we are all infedels!
Jun 7 2006 10:24PM
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RKF
Posts: 1527 - Karma: 342
well we cant say we have caused no harm.. part of our western culture is to abuse and ass-rape people less fortunate which in turn creates more poverty and makes us richer and richer while they get poorer and poorer, untill they get pissed off enough that they attack us ie:9/11
Jun 7 2006 10:27PM
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MitchPee
Posts: 8871 - Karma: 1,509
Not to mention that North America supplies a huge portion of the world with weapons to fight the wars.

Unfortunately, Western attitude and influence has led to the surpression. Suppourting Isreal has held a huge role in the factors of terrorism.
Jun 7 2006 10:30PM
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RKF
Posts: 1527 - Karma: 342
it only took 6 minutes from when isreal became a country to when president truman made an alliance with them.
Jun 7 2006 10:32PM
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MitchPee
Posts: 8871 - Karma: 1,509
and it took 6 days for them to completely relenquish all hope of ever forming peace in the middle east
Jun 7 2006 10:34PM
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CooksCorner
Posts: 3939 - Karma: 22
Oh my god dude...

This post not only undermined the governement of the United States, but the media watchdog as well.

Do we live in a pesudo-reality full of lies and deception making everything beyond first hand experience suspect?

I know you're a smart guy, ive been reading your posts for a long time now...but christ, cant anything ever be as it seems?
Jun 7 2006 10:39PM
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MitchPee
Posts: 8871 - Karma: 1,509
Who knows...maybe we should all try looking at something from both sides of the spectrum rather than look through the tinted glass window. The way I see it is we are looking in on something from the outside.
Jun 7 2006 10:44PM
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RKF
Posts: 1527 - Karma: 342
thanks man that makes me feel good inside..

but no i dont think anything will ever be as it seems, at least if you only look at things from one side.
Jun 7 2006 10:54PM
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CooksCorner
Posts: 3939 - Karma: 22
Fair.

Understand that I am a very busy person, and to be frank US forigen policy with all its history is not the highest on my list of priorites. While i pride myself on being fairly well versed in the happeings of the world i can only divert so much of my time and attention to discovering the 'real truth' behind the latest blue light special bombing in the hell-hole that is the middle east. As such, while i may be accused of being short-sighted and ignorent i make the (apparent) mistake of trusting companies that specialize in providing information, vis-a-vis the news.

I willingly concede that you know a great deal more than me about matters international policy; your superior fact fund is not the issue. The problem is that if you are as enlightened as you appear to be, why is the news disceminating fallacy under the guise of truth?

If you have an answer please make sure it passes the test of 'a resonable man', i have little patience with conspiracy theories.
Jun 7 2006 10:56PM
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RKF
Posts: 1527 - Karma: 342
because the news can only say what they have proof of, and if bush says this, they can only tell you what he says and depending on what outlet it is they will display it as a good thing or a bad thing. if you spend time going to political lectures or just browsing the internet, yes you will find alot of conspiracy theories that i usually just laugh at becuase they are so ridiculous. (someone earlier in this thread claimed that canada, germany, france, etc. didnt go into iraq because they were payed off to saddam)but you do come across things that after alot more research are all very realistic. the reson you dont hear about alot of it is because it takes a great deal of research to understand why, and most news outlets dont have the time to go over it because most people, like you, dont have the time, or the desire to hear it.
Jun 7 2006 11:02PM
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CooksCorner
Posts: 3939 - Karma: 22
I dont believe that news agencys just dont have time. Thats like saying that dentists dont actually have time to clean your teeth, they just pretend they're checking you out and do a reall shity job. Journalists are professionals, i would hope that they could take their job a little more seriously than you insinuated.
Jun 8 2006 8:08AM
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kris.....
Posts: 759 - Karma: 43
its not canadas falt everyone hate's the U.S
Jun 8 2006 9:32AM
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=Worf=
Posts: 2468 - Karma: 25
well i forgot about looking into my old college books when i got home i was to busy umm not really caring about this thread.

bias is to slanted as racist is to prejudice same thing a prejudice person is racist, a racist person is prejudice.

bush is not a good president nor is he a bad president, he is doing what he thinks is best for the country, though you may not agree. if you are not doing illegal things you should not care about your phones being tapped and if your are you are breaking the law any way.
Jun 8 2006 10:54AM
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will987654321
Posts: 2092 - Karma: 15
That's a very Orwellian argument. If that were reasonable then the fourth amendmend could be scrapped. I think almost everyone would agree that is not a good idea.

So are you going to document it for us or not? I want to see some studies.
Jun 8 2006 2:09PM
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RKF
Posts: 1527 - Karma: 342
it could be... but like you said yourself, you dont have the time to go into it, and news agencys again will report on what is said and done, they very rarely go into detail about why. do news agencies tell you why there are all sorts of suicide bombers in isreal, and how the country has been involved with some sort of war since it became a country... no they dont, they just tell you that there is a war. news agencies tell you what is happening, they very rarely tell you why.
Jun 8 2006 3:40PM
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=Worf=
Posts: 2468 - Karma: 25
maybe over the weekend i get some time,
Jun 8 2006 3:44PM
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skithebert
Posts: 2163 - Karma: 16
so lets see here, there have been successful or attempted attacks in the U.S., Spain, U.K., and Canada in the past 5 years. If there are others I forgot let me know. Anybody else still think the measures being taken for homeland security are too much?
Jun 8 2006 4:04PM
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will987654321
Posts: 2092 - Karma: 15
Can you imagine reading a completely history of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict every time there is a suicide bomber attack? That would be stupid. News agencies often have separate features to cover the reasons and history. For individual cases, they tell you what is happening, assuming you know why.
Jun 8 2006 4:06PM
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skithebert
Posts: 2163 - Karma: 16
by the way...where is anathema. what are his thoughts on this? we had an interesting little conversation on this sort of thing recently. bit of a wake up call?
Jun 8 2006 4:11PM
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RKF
Posts: 1527 - Karma: 342
well i simply used isreal as an example, the post i was responding to was a more generalized question, but another example such as bush's reasons to go into iraq, you are told by the news that it is because he said there were WMDs, they dont go into why, or look into it any deeper, they just tell you what he said and most people accept it as the truth, hence the reason bush is called stupid when they didnt find any, because he is actually smart and knows the news will just repeat what he said and not look into it deeper. but yes there are many specials on news stations and if you watch them you will gain a deeper understanding, but as we have seen examples of in this thread, many people just dont have the time and will take what they hear on the 6 0'clock news as the straight truth.
Jun 8 2006 4:19PM
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will987654321
Posts: 2092 - Karma: 15
There are places to find more in-depth reports on why they thought there were WMD, although even those are limited due to all the classified information. Sadly, people don't look for these things, or have the time for them, so they believe whatever they hear, regardless of in depth evidence.
Jun 8 2006 4:23PM
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RKF
Posts: 1527 - Karma: 342
exactcly, and it is unfortunate that people dont put the effort into learning other factors because not only is it good to know them but alot of the time it is just very interesting whether it effects you or not. but oh well, you cant force people to learn.
Jun 8 2006 4:25PM
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freestyler540
Posts: 13083 - Karma: 18,726
That is a good question, in fact, that is the question politians are debating about. Too much security=fear, too little security=waste of money. There is also a fine line between liberty and security.

The guy that suggested to close the Canadian Parlement to public is an idiot. The parlement is a key role in our democraty, it is the free right of all citizens to see their representives defend their point of view. Its a constitutional right!

I read earlier in the thread about the liberal media and I coundn't agree more, the media exagerates the subject just to have a rating. They may tell the truth, but in most cases they are wrong...that is why all documentaries should be peer reviewed before airing. People don't need to worry too much, that should be the politian's affairs. Moor pointed our that fear always lead to violence, and on that he is right (for once). People can become so paranoid about security that they go balistic, boobytrap their house, wear loaded guns and fire upon any suspicious person in the name of security. And that should be avoided at all costs.
Jun 8 2006 7:10PM
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will987654321
Posts: 2092 - Karma: 15
what? how can you believe that?
Jun 8 2006 7:35PM
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MitchPee
Posts: 8871 - Karma: 1,509
First, I would like to thank you for the compliments. Foreign policies in the Middle East is a big interest of mine.

With that said, I believe you asked my we the media was telling "elaborated" and loose stories. The American media does not get to see the Middle East eye to eye. We do not agree on anything and it is very hard to get reporters in the midst of the action.

My sources are indeed very credible. I have read books from eye witnesses to the decay of a good region. Jeremy Bowen was a British reporter who speant years studying and documenting the wars with Isreal and Palestine. All of the books I have read come from people who have spent a long time in the Middle East and know a thing or two about how it works.

I believe the American media puts a damper on the real stories. This is why I turn to outside media sources and outside witnesses. I'm not saying America is always wrong, it's just that they are always motivated by profit and not truth.
Jun 8 2006 7:59PM
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MitchPee
Posts: 8871 - Karma: 1,509
Good analogy. Good point.
Jun 8 2006 8:01PM
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skithebert
Posts: 2163 - Karma: 16
I am interested in seeing how all this turns out in regards to public sentiment. I find it somewhat funny how my feelings on this directly mirror the feelings of those outside of the U.S. right after 9/11. Hearing canadians and europeans say 9/11 was a "wake up call" and the U.S. deserved it for its arrogance actually pissed me off. I find many candians' views, that Canada is somehow better than the U.S. because it does not meddle in other countries affairs, to be true arrogance. I'm curious to see how canadians react to this, as I feel it will be quite similar to how americans reacted after 9/11 (although obviously to a much lesser degree).
Jun 8 2006 8:22PM
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MitchPee
Posts: 8871 - Karma: 1,509
The thing is, Canadians do. They aren't guilt by assumption. Canada has had a long term history of suppourting the US in military operations of the sort.
Jun 8 2006 9:19PM
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RKF
Posts: 1527 - Karma: 342
its not that we in canada dont meddle, its that we have a much smaller economy than the united states and therefore dont screw third world countries over to quite the same extent, hell the us is almost to the point of screwing over canadas economy with big corperations moving north to where there is a good market and it is cheaper to do business.

Now you are of course correct in alot of things aswell, because the us certainately did not deserve it, though there tends to be an american trend that says "fuck you" to the rest of the world, a good example was during a round table discussion on larry king when senator kay bailey hutchison said that global warming and the ever increasing oil shortage was not because the US uses 25% of the worlds oil, but because other countries like china and india are using increasingly larger amounts... this implies that many americans believe they have more rights to the worlds resources than anyone else, some call it manifest destiny, but most call it being a stupid american.

i dont actually judge people for being american nor do i think all americans are stupid i was simply stating that that type of ideal tends to be a trend in america,
the meddling in coutries is not so militartistic as you you would think, many saudis are angry with america because the entire royal family is basically on american payroll. most people outside the us are pissed because of the us's economical influence which shatters local economies all around the world just so that your coffee in the morning is $0.25 cheaper in the morning.
Jun 8 2006 9:31PM
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MitchPee
Posts: 8871 - Karma: 1,509
Unfortunately, these are the side effects of capitalism.

Random fact#1836295: Capitalism only works for people who have a stable economy and reasonably technologically sound. I guarentee you are going to see the shift of hate/jealousy sway to countries such as China and India.

Yes, we as Americans abuse the hell out of capitalism and our practically free economy. We also abuse international trade laws and foreign economic features. I just hate how people act as if greed is only existant in the US. Take a look at Hong Kong, Singapore, and Taiwan. There have been hundreds of corporate scandals and the world doesn't complain about them. This is where the jealousy factor comes in. I know Americans are greedy and all those other evil things, but are we soley generalized on our fortunes and not our principles?

All I'm saying is that I would like to see what happens when the world finds a new target for their endless critiquing rants.
Jun 8 2006 9:38PM
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RKF
Posts: 1527 - Karma: 342
that is very true.. i dont know numbers but i wouldnt be surprised if canada did more fucking over per capita than the us. lucky for us in canada we have such a small population that it is relatively unnoticed in the global economy.

it is the same as great britain all those years ago, they were fucking over the us while it was a colony unfortunately for them they forgot that everyone in the us was basically british and educated... hence the revolutionary war.
today it is basically the same only there is no legal connection between the countries attacking the usa and the usa,
only an economical connection which is why there are terrorist outlets which attack instead of the actual governments. because the governments are still profiting it is the people who suffer. but the governments to look good to thier people will allow these factions to operate whithin the country.

it is said that communism doesnt work because human nature wont allow it too... i think the same goes with capitalism because it allows such a growth of greed that eventually there will only be rich or poor.
Jun 8 2006 9:47PM
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CooksCorner
Posts: 3939 - Karma: 22
It's tough being the last remaining superpower.

If you dont mind me asking, are you in school?
Jun 8 2006 9:53PM
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MitchPee
Posts: 8871 - Karma: 1,509
Well the way I see it there is no "true" form of economy or government will work. These ideas in their pure can not work on a global scale. Communism is basically handing your life in someone else's hand.

What I want to see is instead of the US sending food, guns, and medication to the third world countries, is building roads, schools and other things that help an economy grow. We will all benefit from the future if this happens. This will mean more research goes into alternative fuels, medication, technology, etc. The only way I see fit is to build an entire global economy, not just a North American one. Granted it will be hard in the beginning, the positives WILL outweigh the negatives in the future.
Jun 8 2006 9:53PM
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RKF
Posts: 1527 - Karma: 342
i couldnt agree more.
Jun 8 2006 9:54PM
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