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December, 2024

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PROBLEM WITH JLEVS REBUDDLE

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smuggs
Posts: 6561 - Karma: 1,375
if you read over the discussion from last night about line, you will realize that jay lev is still a shady person. there were certain questions that he was very hesitant to answer. he would give open ended and passive answers to those questions.

last year lines skis were suposed to be the best quality around because nothing changed. they werent they were worse skis than before. and this year he says they will be better quality, yea because line is no longer in charge of putting them together.

he was also hesitant about answering the mini blade questions...... and weather or not the vt center is still going to exist. no its not becuase now its going to be in some huge office in california, that even if you could find it you probably wont be able to go in there and see whats going on.

you can let jay shit in your ear with all of these promises how he didnt sell out. and how its good for line, well it is good for line because they dont make their skis anymore. that just means in the end they really arent lines.

look at me im jlev, im so core i used to make skis in my garage. now look at me im still core as fuck but some china men make my skis in someone elses enormous factory, where there is no love involved. they used to put love into every aspect of the production process we used to make our skis by hand, in canada, by people who probably really loved to ski. now they are just some other huge ski company out there.

LINE HAD ITS PEAK the year of the 186 pollard pro, and the chronic, the skogen, and the mike nick. those were incredible skis, burly as fuck, made by hand with love. as soon as line went to china line isnt line anymore no matter what jay tried to push down your ear canal.

line should drop its name because they no longer stand for the same thing. i think they should be called Line2.

yea im still bitter as fuck that they wouldnt warranty my skis.
Jun 6 2006 1:08PM
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acc
Posts: 4122 - Karma: 222
deep breathe jon :)
Jun 6 2006 1:12PM
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smuggs
Posts: 6561 - Karma: 1,375
i know im gonna just be upset until their defected skis that i got get warrantyed, maybe for the rest of my life.
Jun 6 2006 1:13PM
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Holte
Posts: 10742 - Karma: 7,819
of course there were things he was hesitant to answer. he's a businessman. Some of the questions asked last night would have been business suicide for Jay had he answered them the way that the person asking had wanted. And you've got to take into account that there are just some things he doesn't know about Line's future. Sure, he said Line is in good hands now, but is he absolutely one hundred percent sure that something unexpected won't happen to Line? No. Cut the guy some slack.
Jun 6 2006 1:38PM
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kristie
Posts: 1667 - Karma: 214
jon, it's "rebuttal"
Jun 6 2006 1:40PM
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RastaSkier9
Posts: 1563 - Karma: 15
I feel for smuggs here though, when the skogens came out, i got a pair, and they delemed at the top, but i called up line, and sent them in no problem, and get next years skogens which rocked! They used to take credit for there work, and if the ski fucked up then, they would replace it no problem. Now it SEEMS like people have problems with getting there skis replaced. Its like they had love for the skiers that rode LINE before, but now they are just out to make the money, which is understandable, but they should still take credit for the quaility of the ski. Im not knocking LINE i just see where Smuggs is coming from.
Jun 6 2006 2:02PM
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schmies
Posts: 2032 - Karma: 511
Smuggs, you need to think before you have such an outburst. Moving production to a new facility, be it a new new town, new state, or new country, is difficult. If LINE ran into some issues last season, moving into our ESTABLISHED facility should help them with any problems. There is not going to be any huge office in California. LINE is moving into a room down the hall from us and will remain our competitor. That is the way it works. I'm sure you can stop in and see what's going on whenever you want.

You say LINEs won't be LINEs if they are pressed somewhere else? For someone who spends as much time on here as you do, you should know that is how "independents" usually work. They don't own factories. They pay people to make their skis to the specifications they created, get it? There isn't an Armada factory, or a 4FRNT factory.

People also can't grow a buisiness from a garage. There are times one needs to move on. K2 used to be in the small garage building here, but guess what? They got popular and grew and had to move into a bigger building to meet consumer demands in the growing ski market of the 1960's.
schmies
Jun 6 2006 2:30PM
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freezed
Posts: 12973 - Karma: 500
He did answer the questions about the VT center. He said that it will not exist anymore come next spring.

But I have to agree, the 186 Pollards were probably the best thing to come from Line ever.
Jun 6 2006 2:30PM
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J-squared
Posts: 177 - Karma: 10
Word Ryan.
Jun 6 2006 2:46PM
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Mahre
Posts: 2507 - Karma: 490
ya, like you know anything about whats happening at k2. ass
Jun 6 2006 3:43PM
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MattMcGinnis
Posts: 2396 - Karma: 73
he most deffinatly answered all of the questions without hesitation, he did them in chronological order. and why would you care if he hesitated about skiboards? seriously. are you going to buy a pair?
Jun 6 2006 3:59PM
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Poormansvault
Posts: 427 - Karma: 10
It doesn't really matter what you think of how a company does business, or what you think they should be. Just don't buy skis from them.

Example: If you don't like how McDonalds makes food that is bad for you, just don't eat there. There are other food options. You aren't going to put them out of business, but you won't be eating there so what do you care? It's not your job to "help" people who like McDOnalds food.
Jun 6 2006 4:05PM
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Malczyk
Posts: 1435 - Karma: 1,895
yeah, all those grey areas were covered, no more LINE burlington, they'll still sell ski blades b/c japanese people and little fat kids love them, last years LINEs werent the best quality b/c the factory changed, but not the eqipment and peeps making the skis, they moved across the ocean, everything was the best quality except for the f-up on the invaders. LINE/jay didnt sell out. man this is a dead topic, everythings been answered by the source. its great to hear that everyone is really charged about it and hopefully psyced. well maybe not everyone, then go ahead and buy dynastar and support the cowardess french.
Jun 6 2006 4:18PM
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tellafriendbiach
Posts: 165 - Karma: 296
978 Posts
Insane
Jun 6 2006
2:30:07
Quote Reply

Smuggs, you need to think before you have such an outburst. Moving production to a new facility, be it a new new town, new state, or new country, is difficult. If LINE ran into some issues last season, moving into our ESTABLISHED facility should help them with any problems. There is not going to be any huge office in California. LINE is moving into a room down the hall from us and will remain our competitor. That is the way it works. I'm sure you can stop in and see what's going on whenever you want.

You say LINEs won't be LINEs if they are pressed somewhere else? For someone who spends as much time on here as you do, you should know that is how "independents" usually work. They don't own factories. They pay people to make their skis to the specifications they created, get it? There isn't an Armada factory, or a 4FRNT factory.

People also can't grow a buisiness from a garage. There are times one needs to move on. K2 used to be in the small garage building here, but guess what? They got popular and grew and had to move into a bigger building to meet consumer demands in the growing ski market of the 1960's.
schmies

you graphic design niggas are crazy...you and levin should go talk about ski companies and maybe start one yourself if you know so much schmies...you little wanksta!

and don't forget to tellafriendbiach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jun 6 2006 4:58PM
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evtic
Posts: 1713 - Karma: 20
Jay Lev is stuck, he seems to be forced to say odd shit and put out shitty skis just to keep his head above water, Line2 is what we should call it because Line skis with K2 factory technology are essentially K2 skis, no matter what he says.
Jun 6 2006 5:15PM
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N.L.
Posts: 2420 - Karma: 2,747
i dont have any feelings about this anymore cuz its not Js fault. Running a business is crazy hard, and shit happens. one question i wanted to see answered was whether k2 approached line or vice versa.
Jun 6 2006 5:30PM
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Giv_Clothing
Posts: 312 - Karma: 13
I like to HATE...HATE HATE HATE...I LIKE TO HATE HAPPLES AND BAHATENAS!
Jun 6 2006 5:31PM
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DynastarriderGP
Posts: 8258 - Karma: 214
wow this thread is gay and Line is sick regardless
Jun 6 2006 5:47PM
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Jib_This
Posts: 8272 - Karma: 9
Uh...what?

Look, this is great news for K2. It's good news for Line. But stop pretending K2's purchase of Line is more than an attempt at reaching a different market, demographic, consumer, whatever you want to call it. Frankly, it's insulting everyone's intelligence.

K2 Skis and Line Skis aren't competitors. They're after different markets, all in pursuit of more profit for K2 Sports (www.k2sports.net). You operate for the same people, the money goes to the same place, the stock symbol is the same: KTO (coincidentally the symbol K2 Skis used for their "fraternity" campaign, if I'm not mistaken...)

It's capitalism. You don't get bought out by a competitor, move into their offices, and use their production facilities to remain their "competition". You do it to increase profits for the buyer and provide for an avenue into a market the buyer couldn't penetrate well enough previously. That is how it works.

I mean, really, c'mon. Line is great, K2 is great, or so I hear, but please please please STOP with the bullshit. It's starting to smell.
Jun 6 2006 6:29PM
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Jib_This
Posts: 8272 - Karma: 9
Edit: the link is actually www.k2inc.net
Jun 6 2006 6:30PM
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Mahre
Posts: 2507 - Karma: 490
youre kidding right? ignorant shit.
Jun 6 2006 6:41PM
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timoski
Posts: 3036 - Karma: 45
"last year lines skis were suposed to be the best quality around because nothing changed. they werent they were worse skis than before. and this year he says they will be better quality, yea because line is no longer in charge of putting them together."

-by nature a larger richer company should make better quality skis...how is he going to go on record saying that his skis, which he devoted the past 11 years to suck...he said the quality will improve so yes you can infer that teh LINE product right now is inferior to k2

----------------

"he was also hesitant about answering the mini blade questions......"
-yea right do you raelly care?

-----------

"and weather or not the vt center is still going to exist. no its not becuase now its going to be in some huge office in california, that even if you could find it you probably wont be able to go in there and see whats going on."

-VT is moving in the spring to out west. he was clear that its moving, yes, but said they would stil try to sponser EC events, i think he didn't mention the western location, most likely because the merger happened what a few days ago, and they don't have shti figured out yet

---------------

"look at me im jlev, im so core i used to make skis in my garage. now look at me im still core as fuck but some china men make my skis in someone elses enormous factory, where there is no love involved. they used to put love into every aspect of the production process we used to make our skis by hand, in canada, by people who probably really loved to ski. now they are just some other huge ski company out there."

-thats the capitalist system at work my friend, eventually everyone going to be doing it and if you'r enot, you beceom inefficent and don't amke profit and get eliminated


"LINE HAD ITS PEAK the year of the 186 pollard pro, and the chronic, the skogen, and the mike nick. those were incredible skis, burly as fuck, made by hand with love. as soon as line went to china line isnt line anymore no matter what jay tried to push down your ear canal."

-claim not proof
Jun 6 2006 6:43PM
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dirty_dreb
Posts: 2659 - Karma: 20
definitly proof. Those skis held up way better than the shit they got fro mchina this year
Jun 6 2006 8:14PM
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KeegLove
Posts: 10166 - Karma: 55
hahahah i actually laughed so hard i puked a litte. it was actually quite disturbing....
Jun 6 2006 8:21PM
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Ahmets_Brother
Posts: 20283 - Karma: 5,931
whats the sense in argueing? jay is a great guy. not some shady sell out.
Jun 6 2006 8:28PM
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schmies
Posts: 2032 - Karma: 511
"K2 Skis and Line Skis aren't competitors. They're after different markets, all in pursuit of more profit for K2 Sports (www.k2sports.net). You operate for the same people, the money goes to the same place.

It's capitalism. You don't get bought out by a competitor, move into their offices, and use their production facilities to remain their "competition". You do it to increase profits for the buyer and provide for an avenue into a market the buyer couldn't penetrate well enough previously. That is how it works."

Jib_This, it is always seems to be a "capitalism conspiracy" with you. We are a ski company, not ENRON or Halliburton. Nobody is trying to trick you. To begin, we ARE competitors, we will remain competitors. You show your lack of understanding on how such a system can and does work. At the end of the day, when there are a number of companies operating under one umbrella, you don't just have a pile of money that everyone digs into to start the next year's cycle of development, production and sales, reguardless of how each performed the previous year.

That being said, we WILL still try and out do one another and compete for market share. Does that make sense? Take Ride snowboards and K2 snowboards as a prime example. They are in the same building, yet remain in healthy competition. There are different engineers for each brand, different designers, different marketing teams with different ideas, different constructions and processes, different reps, and at the end of the day, different products for the consumer to choose from.

Your assumption that K2 purchased LINE to "avenue into a market the buyer couldn't penetrate well enough previously." Well, that made me laugh. A bit more research needs to be done on your part...say an SIA report. Now please excuse me, I've got some skis to draw so I can shred the glacier next week.

schmies
Jun 6 2006 9:38PM
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mattwalker
Posts: 5063 - Karma: 2,478
haha no indie ski company owns their own factory, in fact, almost none do... k2, elan, rossi and salomon? o dynastar too...? 9thward gets pressed in Elan's i think and armada will be there too next year, Line in K2 now, Liberty is in China too, and High Society and 4frnt are in snowboard presses, and i think 4frnt's is in mexico and HS is in Canada... but then again i probably wrong on some of that info...

u guys need to quit making such a big deal about this, j lev still runs LINE skis, its the same company, its just he gets his skis pressed and distributed by a new company that already makes skis called k2, they are still line skis made by Line with J Lev in charge its no different than any other ski company switchin presses, which atleast one does every year....

and the kid who said that the such and so year model of line was the best because it was made in canada by skiers with love, your a communist, the reason why those skis were so sick is because Line got it right that year and was able to make a solid ski in Canada, and that was a time when there really was no competition in the twin tip market, but now, there are 5 new ski companies every week, and they are all fighting to stay alive, and when k2 moves their factories to china and cut their production cost in half, everybody else needs to do something to keep up or die off... its called capitalism and its why we are cooler than the USSR was... this is jay's way of keeping up and making sure line stays alive and stays Line...
Jun 6 2006 9:47PM
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traer
Posts: 690 - Karma: 12
Thank you! Someone that knows something about business.
Jun 6 2006 9:50PM
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traer
Posts: 690 - Karma: 12
Would you rather just have line go under and not be able to buy their skis again? Because that seems like the direction they were headed in.
Jun 6 2006 9:52PM
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FUUUCK
Posts: 18426 - Karma: 4,889
STOP BITCHING ALL OF YOU! i cant take this anymore, jay lev puts his balls on the line (no pun intended) last night and tells us personally whats happening and personally answering our questions and all you guys do is make wild accusations of him selling out.

WHO DO YOU BUY SKIS FROM??? SALOMON? ROSSIGNOL? HEAD? do you see there CEOs coming on the site and personally answering your questions? no you dont! not even the other "core" companies have Q & A threads like the ones we've seen from jason.

Jason didnt need to do what he did monday night, but he did and i respect him for that, you guys need to see that if he really didnt care he wouldnt of bothered.
Jun 6 2006 10:22PM
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SkiLuigi1300
Posts: 607 - Karma: 10
you are a tool. learn how to spell.
Jun 6 2006 10:26PM
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NWFlow
Posts: 1557 - Karma: 61
I seriously have no problem with the whole LINE deal, but I think some of your arguments may be fundamentally flawed.

I'm not saying you guys are ENRON or anything, but I can't possibly see how K2 and LINE are still competitors. I'm sure there is one CEO or a committee that runs the whole of k2 sports. They are the people that have the pile of money that THEY dig from. So your "competition" with LINE is actually earning those people money no matter who "wins". Have fun and better draw some more "rebel" graphics to appeal to the "hip teenage market".
Jun 7 2006 12:16AM
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eheath
Posts: 61677 - Karma: 123,836
Typical bandwagon hopper. Shut the fuck yup. "sold out" is such a played word. Anyone who is smart "sells out" its called MAKING MONEY SHIT HEAD. And "core" is also a very played word. OMG IM SO CORE!! Who gives a flying fuck? Core=nothing. Who cares if its made by hand or made in china? If you don't like the skis don't fucking buy them, simple. The word "core" is so worthless, it makes no sense. The meaning of core would translate into being poor and doing everything for one thing, and not making money, and failing. Fuck that. Jason was a smart mother fucker for doing this. He now is making mad bank, instead of losing money on a dying company.

So for one, fuck you. You are a huge tool bag. You think you are cool by calling him "not core" or a "sell out" when you don't even know how real life is. Get the fuck over yourself, you are a represenitive of the standard "Ns person" aka a complete, udder, shit head. So fuck you, shut the fuck up, peace.
Jun 7 2006 12:26AM
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tcfns
Posts: 17 - Karma: 10
Typical bandwagon hopper. And its "utter", you moron.

What's up now, bitch?
Jun 7 2006 12:32AM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,682
Evan I wouldent store your anger up like that again, you need to let it out slowly, hey next time you might actualy e-kill them. but you are right core is such a shitty word, if I ran a business i wouldent want to be labeled as "core" by newschoolers, because that would mean I would be poor and be runing an unsucsesful business.
Jun 7 2006 12:35AM
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eheath
Posts: 61677 - Karma: 123,836
Cool, and thats my signature, moron.
Jun 7 2006 12:35AM
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tcfns
Posts: 17 - Karma: 10
That was the point of the joke, bitch.
Jun 7 2006 12:37AM
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traer
Posts: 690 - Karma: 12
Take some fundamental accounting classes and it will all be more clear (the big pile of cash theory that is).
Jun 7 2006 1:01AM
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NWFlow
Posts: 1557 - Karma: 61
I don't really want to get into an economical debate in ski Gabber, and I could very easily have been wrong. But I'd need you to explain before I believed you.

I'm not saying that there's a big pile of cash that each of the companies pull out of; I know there's not. But someone is collecting proceeds off both K2 skis and LINE, probably someone that doesn't even ski. If there isn't, there would be absolutely no point in k2 sports buying Line skis.
Jun 7 2006 1:10AM
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NWFlow
Posts: 1557 - Karma: 61
P.S. I'm not agree with anything about the "selling out" or the J.Lev bashing, I'm just discussing corporate policy (I'm a nerd) and how it relates to skiing.
Jun 7 2006 1:13AM
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traer
Posts: 690 - Karma: 12
I hear you.
Jun 7 2006 2:01AM
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KRASHED
Posts: 7803 - Karma: 466
My question to you is why do you think Line puts out shitty skis? You obviously have zero idea what a crappy ski is and your in a small group of line haters. A shitty ski is made by Elan and the people who buy twintips seem to realize that. You get off to being different and hating on a company you know nothing about.
Jun 7 2006 8:31AM
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skirbrt88
Posts: 1090 - Karma: 23
^you know elan builds armadas
Jun 7 2006 10:16AM
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fugative1800
Posts: 163 - Karma: 9
yea seriosly, that schmies character thinks he knows everything that goes on with k2. what a newb!

btw its not like jason could have answered every single question everybody asked.
Jun 7 2006 10:34AM
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smuggs
Posts: 6561 - Karma: 1,375
i have a bone to pick with line.... so my hatred will continue. so as much as you cock suckers say oh your gay think about what you wrote. think about what u just spent your time reading, then posting in to bring it back to the top of the forums so my posts can gather a greater and greater audience.

you the people who argue that im wrong truely keep the post alive because u keep people posting in this, thank you for your assistance.
Jun 7 2006 10:37AM
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Schoening
Posts: 14332 - Karma: 1,268
soo you really think jason could have answered every single question that was posted in that thread?
Jun 7 2006 10:39AM
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smuggs
Posts: 6561 - Karma: 1,375
jay also ignored the how did u feel about k2 until this... all he said was big corporate. i think that that isnt how he felt i think he had plans to take them over and change skiing right.

and i dont care about other companys skis. LINE DID MAKE THEIR SKIS BY HAND, IN NORTH AMERICA, THEY HAD THEIR HEADQUARTERS IN MY HOME STATE and thats the coolest thing probably ever in the ski industry thats all that matters. i dont care where ninthwards are made or 4frnts because i dont want those.
Jun 7 2006 10:41AM
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fugative1800
Posts: 163 - Karma: 9
you my friend. need to relax
Jun 7 2006 10:45AM
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WIfreeskier
Posts: 8125 - Karma: 65
oh fo sho
Jun 7 2006 10:54AM
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timoski
Posts: 3036 - Karma: 45
that is some of the worst logic i have ever witnessed...congrats
Jun 7 2006 11:12AM
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smuggs
Posts: 6561 - Karma: 1,375
back to the top thanks lax!
Jun 7 2006 11:32AM
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