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A response to the gasoline email and other fossil fuels consumption. Consider...

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Triple_Strum
Posts: 6384 - Karma: 953
As an Energy concentration major graduate, I think the gas emails and people complaining about price increase is absolutely absurd. First off, the average cost of a gallon of gas in the world is around $6, and we complain when it rises to half that. Secondly, let's compare how much gas costs per gallon compared to things that ARE RENEWABLE, unlike gas:

- A cup of coffee: $1.29 at Dunkin Donuts. Per gallon, that is over $10/gallon!

- Filtered/Bottled Water: $1.50 for a 20 ounce Evian. Per Gallon: over $10. if you buy it in a gallon, it is perhaps $5. This is WATER! the most abundant, renewable thing on earth!

- Milk, about $350-$4.00/gallon! we cry about gas that costs less than cow juice!

- Orange Juice: $5-6/gallon of good stuff

- Alcohol: even the cheapest beer is $5-6 a gallon. Renewable!

The point is, somehow we are upset that we are using a non-renewable resource that took hundreds of thousands of years to make for less than all our renewable resources, and we are upset about it!

Let's stop being so greedy and self-privileged and join with the rest of the world in being more environmentally conservation and cautious. I know it is hard to think about future generations, but guess what... according to the EIA (Energy Information Administration) we are at peak oil production. if we continue on our current rate, there won't be petroleum in 50 years...
Apr 25 2006 9:31AM
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soulskier
Posts: 17806 - Karma: 3,841
thank you, i completely agree
ever heard jim gaffigan talk about water?
Apr 25 2006 9:32AM
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CooksCorner
Posts: 3939 - Karma: 22
1- im not drinking gasoline. it goes in my car and makes things work.

2- the reason the price of gas is so high in the world (particularly Europe, which is pulling up your $6 a gallon average) is because of gas tax, plain and simple.

3- im all for renewable energy sources but its not our morality thats going to do it, the will to change will be based on one single thing. thats right you economists, you guessed it, COST. Until it costs less for that enviromentally safe car powered by hugs and fuzzy feelings the world will continue to operate on black gold.
Apr 25 2006 11:07AM
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-dva-
Posts: 1530 - Karma: 23
word, im an evniro major and couldnt agree more
Apr 25 2006 11:08AM
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d-loc
Posts: 7479 - Karma: 15
i dont buy coffee

i dont buy water... did buy a RO unit ($89) that give me bottle water quality and will last forever with filter replacement.

i buy 1 gal milk - lasts me a few weeks

I buy 1/2 gal of OJ - last me a few weeks

i do spend money on beer, but that gets you fucked up


point is that sure those number look good but actually apply them and ur numbers make no sense. ya gal OJ is more than gallon of gas, but i dont drink a gallon (or more) of OJ or milk in a day. thus most of ur cars probably get 15-25 MPG and you drive alot more than 15 miles in a day on average. so you spend roughly maybe $10/day in gas. try drinking that much milk in 1 day. sure i get 33MPG and others may get more and only use 1 gal/day and thats $3.

nice try buddy, but you have just been shot down by D-Loc. care to try again?
Apr 25 2006 11:14AM
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twix_182
Posts: 9248 - Karma: 27
"the americans are pretty stupid, but i dont think they're gonna BUY bottled water"

"o yes they are, we'll just tell them the water's from frace"
Apr 25 2006 11:16AM
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CooksCorner
Posts: 3939 - Karma: 22
Water is a RIGHT, not a product. nothing makes me sicker than watching some Paris Hilton wannabe drinking designer water because it 'tastes better'. Disgusting.
Apr 25 2006 11:20AM
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sherLocke
Posts: 4701 - Karma: 8
Who drinks gallons of coffee a day?
Who uses gallons of gas per day?

That's why we complain, and oil prices in other countries are irrelevant. People will never feel gratefull because they are paying less than other countries. People will be pissed off because oil prices are rising in THIS country, where we live, face that. It's all relative. Oil has become expensive in this country relative to past prices.

Anybody concerned with the environment should be happy that oil prices are skyrocketing. Because of this eventually people will start realizing that we are going to have to conserve oil for the time being, while we work on finding a renewable energy source that can replace oil. Either that or people will just riot when oil becomes 8 and 9 dollars a gallon.

4 dollars a gallon is already too expensive for the middle class in America to afford, so what's gonna happen? It's gonna be up to the people, all of us should keep in mind that our generation has the potential to be part of something huge, or we could just pussy out and take it in the ass from more fat rich white people. it's our choice.
Apr 25 2006 11:35AM
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-dva-
Posts: 1530 - Karma: 23
i agree with the whole bottled water thing, but you cant say that water in general is a right. its a privilege to have clean, drinkable water, because a lot of the world doesnt have that luxury. but yeah, water isnt really a fair comparison to gas just because tap water, which is actually safer than bottled water, costs almost nothing.
Apr 25 2006 11:36AM
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monkers
Posts: 145 - Karma: 10
i couldn't put it any better myself, the price of gasoline in the UK is rediculous but its all tax!!
Apr 25 2006 11:38AM
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soulskier
Posts: 17806 - Karma: 3,841
but in europe they have much more fuel efficient cars, so if gas costs more, they dont use as much of it, in america we need more gas efficient cars, i do enjoy my gas hog, but it hurts my wallet
Apr 25 2006 11:41AM
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d-loc
Posts: 7479 - Karma: 15
haha tap water is NOT "safer" then bottled water. bottled water is made from tap water. I would know because I have a RO (Reverse Osmosis) unit that can turn tap water into bottled water.

see tap water has some chemicals in it that people dont like to taste. such as lime, clorine, calcium deposits and a few others here and there.

the average city water is around 300-375 PPM, thats Parts Per Million. this was 325 PPM at my old apt. i dont mind the taste but my fish and plants sure do.

those extra chemicals in the water can harm a delicate fish or plant.

A RO unit goes through a 4-6 stage filtration and takes that 300PPM tap water to 0-5 PPM RO water. bottled water and distilled water are 0-5 PPM. distilled is usually more towards 0 PPM.

Their is the final stage on my RO unit that can be used or not used. it is the De-Ionizing stage. this stage is only used if you want 0 PPM. primarity for fish and plants. if you want it to drink you dont send the tap water through this stage and you get crisp clean 5-7 PPM water with a great taste

the RO unit cost $89, filters last 3 years and 5 years... that is pumping out maximum capacity of 100 gallons per day. but who drink that much, so the filters last you like 15 years. do the math, yeah it costs almost nothing to get bottled water with an RO unit. dumb idiots just buying bottles everywhere they go
Apr 25 2006 11:48AM
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soulskier
Posts: 17806 - Karma: 3,841
since we're talking about water
city water sucks! it tastes bad
and well water tastes so good
Apr 25 2006 12:02PM
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Triple_Strum
Posts: 6384 - Karma: 953
unfortunately, since you seem to be so "intelligent" you missed the entire point: those things are all renewable resources and petroleum isn't. We treat it like there is no end to it. You can complain about cost now, but all you are complaining about is that you don't live in obscene luxury. No one NEEDS to drive all over the place. We have been conditioned to believe that we deserve gas as a basic need - we are like Pavlov's dogs: we have the slightly inkling to go somewhere so we simply gas up and go rather than think about the consequences.

You can defend that you are ignorant of gas costs and consequences, but our kids and grand kids still won't have the means of transportation we do if things don't change drastically. I want you to think back about this thread when gas is $7 a gallon in 10 years because China's population matures into its industrial age and then suddenly we have 4 billion people who want gas instead of 2 billion. Oh yeah, and when they do all want cars, they won't be able to afford efficient vehicles, but rather the crap that the United States auto industry has pedaled for two decades. (don't get me wrong, this isn't an anti-America thread, my next vehicle will be a Escape hybrid).

Oh and taxes you complain about? Every other country is smart to tax petroleum! Does Germany or France have five trillion in debt? Do their teachers get paid nothing? Has their education system gone from 3rd to 17th in the world in the last 20 years? No, because we want things without taxes or detrimental effects. Ugh, I could go on forever. I am done. and D-loc: if you plan to even pretend to have a rational discussion/argument with me, write in complete words please?
Apr 25 2006 12:34PM
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Triple_Strum
Posts: 6384 - Karma: 953
PPM of what? you haven't stated any particular contaminant that you are measuring? are you saying there are 5-7 PPM of lime in water? of copper? of chlorine? macroinvertibrates? you didnt even state a fact in all that gibberish.

Yes, your point that the RO filters water of contaminants is true, but you didn't say what you were mainly concerned with in the water. Do you even know specially what hurts you fish or plants that is in the water?
Apr 25 2006 12:38PM
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-dva-
Posts: 1530 - Karma: 23
i wasnt talking about dasani and shit like that, thats just purified tap water. im talking about spring water, which is one of the most unregulated markets out there. but really that has nothing to do with this thread. i totally agree with whoever started this thread in that we need to stop bitching about gas prices because comparatively, theyre not that bad. and really, the only way were going to stop relying on oil is if the continue to go up to the point where the greener alternatives are cheaper. until that happens, theres not really anything we can do except deal with it.
Apr 25 2006 12:50PM
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Chris862
Posts: 541 - Karma: 10
y'know if people werent so lazy, theyd ride their bikes. i love my bike, i ride about 20 miles per day during the summer getting to jobs and back. yes i know some of you have longer commutes, but still bikes are dope and people simply need to learn to not be so damn dependant on cars.

also, really only in America do you see pretty much EVERYONE driving SUV's, alone. that pisses me off so much. public transportation is a great solution, along with simply carpooling. theres a reason when you go to europe you dont see wives driving alone in huge escalades/suburbans or whatever big car they may drive. THEY DONT FUCKING NEED THAT SHIT!

im not disagreeing i think you have some relevant, valid points. however, there are plenty of solutions, people simply need to start sacrificing some of their American luxuries.
Apr 25 2006 2:09PM
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d-loc
Posts: 7479 - Karma: 15
you can be certain on what it exactly in the water. Im stating that basic city water has the following elements in its tap water.

those are all facts because I had many problems with my crops since all of these excess nutrients are in the water. sure if you are shitty about your plants it wont matter but I was going for HighTimes budda.

first few tries did not work well becasue of my tap water. I was mearly stating that I got a RO filtration system to rid my shitty ass tap water of its 325PPM to 0PPM.

I am concerned with ANYTHING in the water what is so hard to understand about that?

any slight contaminant to my resivour will cause a problem. It will mess with the final outlook when I test my res.

The tap water was also an outrageous PH level of i believe 9.4. When I wanted a PH of around 7.2.

so with all that filth in the water, my PH was off the scale causing my plants roots to not function properly and feed on what they needed. the PH level strined the roots from gathering intake, thus resulting in a poor crop.

The final DI stage of the filtration drops PH level down to 6.3 in most cases. This was perfect to add to the res and let it balance out to a nice 7.1.

I have $100 PH & PPM meters, calibrated to a "T". I know what Im talking about so dont even try and tell me about water and its particles.

so basically I dont care exectly whats in the water, all i need to know if that 325 PPM is fucking up my solution causing it to be off. I wanted that out so i got a RO unit.

some people say they love to grow with tap water. I dont know their conditions but for me the PH was way to high to get too feed for my plants.

I learned from the best and now the best has to RIP (OG.com)
Apr 25 2006 2:11PM
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Chris862
Posts: 541 - Karma: 10
the fact that tap water is as clean as it is, being served to such a mass population, is quite an achievement in itself.

there can def be improvement though, you have a strong argument.
Apr 25 2006 2:23PM
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d-loc
Posts: 7479 - Karma: 15
uhhh gas wont be $7 in 10 years, if you follow the trend of population and when gas peaked in 02... you will see that in about 10-15 years there will be NO GAS. this has been shown multiple times.

and at the rate gas is increasing your numbers are way off buddy.

this time last year the average cost at the pump was $2.12 for premium.

currently it at around a $1 increase in 1 year.

the supply is running down and the inflation/tax is being raised significantly.

by these figures you can expect to see gas at $7 in ummm maybe 3 years.


and i guess this is why we havent made huge advancements in hydrogen based cars running on fuel cells.

yeah sure we might have waited a litle too long but we have SUV's that are hydrogen fueled that have the same HP as before.

I also recall posting a huge article here about the civic that runs off ONLY natural gas. yes it has been on the market since 1998, but why no mention of it?

go check it... http://automobiles.honda.com/models/model_overview.asp?ModelName=Civic+GX

i love how all these people say we need to find an alternate source of fuel.

uhh this technology has been around and in production for 8 years, how are we not striving for a new source of transportation?
Apr 25 2006 2:26PM
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-dva-
Posts: 1530 - Karma: 23
becasuse the upfront costs of switching over an entire plant to manufacture completely different cars is huge and industries arent concerned with long term investments at this point, because whatever gas prices may be, people are still buying their cars. they need to have the monetary incentive before theyre willing to make that kind of commitment.
Apr 25 2006 2:40PM
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R-Bertsch
Posts: 4719 - Karma: 20
hahaha i was hoping that someone wouldnt already have a response like this, but you beat me to it, good points. d-loc wins....again.
Apr 25 2006 2:43PM
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Ghst
Posts: 5820 - Karma: 10
Yeea well water, I moved so now I have city water so I buy bottles :(

I live in Canada where gas is sold by the litre so I don't have much to say, I think it's 1.00 a litre or something close to that now
Apr 25 2006 2:44PM
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Ahmets_Brother
Posts: 20283 - Karma: 5,931
well i dont see the government and gas stations putting out other sources do you? they want to keep gas because if another source comes into play than all the AMERICAN COMPANIES and opec are FUCKED!!. gas makes the world go round right now. also i complain about gas because i live in the countryside. the nearest town is 15 miles away. theres no such thing as a bus or train to go to other places so your dependent on gasoline
Apr 25 2006 4:25PM
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Badfish2
Posts: 3453 - Karma: 21
So i'm driving to work, I listen to the radio and hear people complaining about traffic and gas prices. I look in my mirror... i look to my right and then to my left. every car has only one person in it and is just sitting waiting for the light to turn on my 5k drive. After living in Europe for a few months (where fuel was 1.60cdn a litre), every car i drove in was diesel. Big, small, minivans and luxury cars. The size of my jetta would be considered a luxury for most people - oh wait there goes another suv with one person in it. I then get passed on the right by a group of bikers.

For me to get to work by bus would take me over an hour (the first leg ony passes once every 40 minutes though). Rail service would be waay better but at what cost to the city?

boycotting buying gas, really do it! Or just buy less of it! OR share it! call it boycotting if you want, enviros have been doing it for years.

oh yeah, back to the diesel thing. while you're in a boycotting mood, realize that refineries are refusing to modify production to lower the sulfer in their diesel at a large scale level. In fact, refineries in Canada have now gone back on their decision to comply with the stricter standard since the election of the new government. This keeps the availibility of the newer, higher efficiency engines low.
Apr 25 2006 4:47PM
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Ahmets_Brother
Posts: 20283 - Karma: 5,931
its not all us consumers that raises the price, its the fact that the standard of living in india and china are rising. more and more families can afford cars in these countries and they have massive populations. once their economy further increases (which it is at a fast rate due to industry and jobs moving from europe and the us to these 2 countries) then more cars will be bought. they predict that if each person in china had a car, gas would go up to 23$ a gallon in the us. its a global issue that should be solved by other resources than gas, but its so infused into the economy right now that letting it go would be disasterous
Apr 25 2006 5:11PM
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Chris862
Posts: 541 - Karma: 10
very good perspective.

i guess carpooling would work for people in situations like yourself, i dunno. either way the problem needs to find a solution instead of being complained about more.
Apr 25 2006 5:40PM
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PagesHouse
Posts: 6024 - Karma: 104
im just pissed off because theres no reason to raise the gas prices other than the fact that exxon feels like making more money.
Apr 25 2006 5:42PM
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sherLocke
Posts: 4701 - Karma: 8
/\ Exxon Mobil has little control over how much they charge for a gallon of gasoline if they want to stay in business.

OPEC is the main controller of gas prices because they decide how much a barrel of crude oil costs.
Apr 27 2006 6:14PM
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Logchucker
Posts: 1508 - Karma: 16
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f7/Simple_supply_and_demand.png[img]
Apr 27 2006 6:51PM
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Logchucker
Posts: 1508 - Karma: 16
Click for larger image

A copmany is going to try to make as much money as it can. Why doens't Armada sell its skis to just get by? we all know comapnies make money, our parents usually get paid because of it. its not eveil, its the world market.
Apr 27 2006 6:54PM
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3ski6guy0
Posts: 9201 - Karma: 132
lets all just commit suicide so we dont have to deal with gas prices
Apr 27 2006 6:57PM
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