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Shane's pontoons - crazy binding mount

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waynewong
Posts: 1359 - Karma: 23
So I was "kicked down" a pair of shane's pontoons, 179cm...all white, blue sidewall...the bindings he had mounted (marker comp 18s) where set on angles ....picture a duck foot stance...

or a big "V"....looks painful to ski, but just shows how much he is willing to think outside the box and try shit we may not think of...

I may try them tommorrow at alpine as they are...but will remount them asap to a NORMAL mount...

Mar 25 2006 2:05PM
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jayamait
Posts: 2567 - Karma: 1,347
thats pretty wack.
Mar 25 2006 2:06PM
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waynewong
Posts: 1359 - Karma: 23
anyone have a clue to why he would do that? I really can't think of any benefit...at first I thought he was fucking with me
Mar 25 2006 2:08PM
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johanblaze
Posts: 4987 - Karma: 345
no idea, but worth a try. there had to be some reason he thought they would work well that way. make sure you ski them like that before remounting to let us know how they are.
Mar 25 2006 2:45PM
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Cheeseninja
Posts: 386 - Karma: 12
It's because with a traditional mount the tips like to smash into each other. If you do the duck-foot thing it keeps them apart a bit.

Seth was talking about this on the K2 forums.
Mar 25 2006 2:59PM
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iggyskier
Posts: 10447 - Karma: 10,018
yeah - what was said above.

Seth has his pontoons mounted the same way.

it just prevents the tips from knocking together.
Mar 25 2006 3:16PM
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waynewong
Posts: 1359 - Karma: 23
at first I thought it was a joke, like a permament snowplow and was his wierd sense of humor


i will try em tommorrow, and see, we have a good bit of fresh, and will be doing snowmobile laps back in blackwood canyon (lake tahoe)after some early turns at alpine
Mar 25 2006 3:34PM
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n-o
Posts: 3457 - Karma: 41
weird... post pics
Mar 25 2006 3:42PM
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Desjardins
Posts: 1772 - Karma: 11
definatley post pics of those
Mar 25 2006 4:03PM
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wazzucrewskier
Posts: 2269 - Karma: 151
haha, thats how my elizabeths were mounted, but it wasnt intentional.
Mar 25 2006 4:17PM
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kozy
Posts: 872 - Karma: 10
how would that work
Mar 25 2006 4:59PM
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Vicious
Posts: 3862 - Karma: 140
This isn't unusual. Sanouks have measuring guides on them for mounting 'duck stance.'

Also, blue sidewalls?? Pontoons are capped...
Mar 25 2006 5:05PM
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Jib_This
Posts: 8272 - Karma: 9
Sit on something high up. Let your feet/legs dangle for a while.

After a minute or two, look down at your feet. You'll probably notice that they don't point straight out, but rather point out in a V-shape where the open ends of the V are your toes, and the bottom point is your heels.

My guess is that he mounted in a V-stance to compensate for your lower body's natural alignment. It's much the same as Fischer or Tecnica boots being built on a V-stance (only 2-3 degrees in the case of Tecnica, don't know how much for Fischer).

Just my guess, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if that was the thinking. Seems like a little bit of a radical solution, and impractical for people who don't have access to top-level techs, but it's cool. I'd bet it's fun to ski if you get it right.
Mar 25 2006 5:09PM
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wrenegade
Posts: 6631 - Karma: 41
Yeah I've heard that some of the pontoons the atheletes have been getting are sidewall. Sure wasn't that way at SIA. Wonder if they've changed their minds for the production run? probably not though :(
Mar 25 2006 5:21PM
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Vicious
Posts: 3862 - Karma: 140
Nope. I've seen a few pairs...all capped.
Mar 25 2006 5:24PM
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nothanks
Posts: 13551 - Karma: 31
Why did the cap the Pontoon in the first place?
Mar 25 2006 5:31PM
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HiTz
Posts: 1467 - Karma: 11
sounds ill..keep em that way, seth has his that way too
Mar 25 2006 5:48PM
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LDuggan420
Posts: 1611 - Karma: 13
i want to see some pics
Mar 25 2006 6:01PM
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Vicious
Posts: 3862 - Karma: 140
weight
Mar 25 2006 6:23PM
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iggyskier
Posts: 10447 - Karma: 10,018
Luke...

I've seen sidewall pontoons here in WA.

They were a K2 employees.

asked him about it - he said that most of the employees and riders (meaning probably all) were riding sidewall pontoons.

stock version remains shitty cap, though.
Mar 25 2006 8:11PM
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wrenegade
Posts: 6631 - Karma: 41
That's frustrating though. It's such a low volume, specific, and expensive ski, why wouldn't they make it sidewall for everyone? I mean, it' obviously better if employees and pros are using sidewall versions.
Mar 25 2006 8:24PM
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Jib_This
Posts: 8272 - Karma: 9
Not necessarily true.

From what I know, using a cap to make prototype skis is expensive and more difficult than using a sidewall. So, if the athletes and employees are riding test versions of the Pontoon, sidewalls make sense.

Is cap cheaper to produce? In mass quantities, yes. But it's also lighter and arguably stiffer torsionally, which, if true, is important on such a wide ski.
Mar 25 2006 8:49PM
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Vicious
Posts: 3862 - Karma: 140
Well, we'll just have to see if we can get our hands on some then, huh?
Mar 25 2006 9:01PM
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iggyskier
Posts: 10447 - Karma: 10,018
cap is much cheaper and easier to produce. makes the ski lighter too...which is whatever.

i think sidewall pairs will be a bit difficult to track down...but Im sure it is possible.

honesstly, though.....fuck the toons.

Lotus 138 represent!!
Mar 25 2006 9:20PM
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stylishskier
Posts: 658 - Karma: 11
exactly, athletic stance, dropping cliffs you dont want toes pointed straight, might take a bit getting used to riding but overall is prolly more comfortable
Mar 25 2006 10:45PM
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skimasterflex
Posts: 2064 - Karma: 16
No capped skis aren't torsionally stiffer. And if any ski skied better capped the first ones to be on the capped version would be the employees.

K2 handmakes skis for their athletes that are different from what they sell retail. Then when they figure out the final dimensions they build a mold and have the chinese factory pump them out cheaper and capped.
Mar 26 2006 1:26AM
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Jib_This
Posts: 8272 - Karma: 9
So, essentially, I was right. Except for that part about torsional stiffness. Which may or may not be debatable.
Mar 26 2006 1:41AM
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wazzucrewskier
Posts: 2269 - Karma: 151
i dont know, so correct me if im wrong, but wouldnt race skis be cap if they were torsionally stiffer. all race skis i have seen are sidewall, so i would believe they are stiffer when they are sidewall. i dont know for sure though, just a guess.
Mar 26 2006 4:41AM
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Vicious
Posts: 3862 - Karma: 140
YEAY!
Mar 26 2006 11:41AM
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Paul-o-Rama
Posts: 3301 - Karma: 13
thats so weird, it would really suck once you got out of the powder cuz your skis would have to stay straight while your feet would have to be pointed inward
Mar 26 2006 11:48AM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,686
same I have seen them at Crystal, I think you might be able to get them from a rep. All the ones I have seen are white topsheet and blue side walls. Personaly I dont mind cap. but I am lighter so I dont need the durability of sidewalls.
Mar 26 2006 1:51PM
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Ryanvdonk
Posts: 12811 - Karma: 1,971
atomics are all capped, as are salomons. capped skis are quicker edge to edge and are lighter. sidewall are stiffer. it is debatable which is more durable though it completely depends on the ski, how it's skied, and what types of abuseit takes, both have their upside.
Mar 26 2006 6:11PM
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Vicious
Posts: 3862 - Karma: 140
How can capping have any effect on edge to edge performance??

Also, beginning with the new line coming out, Atomics are no longer all capped.
Mar 26 2006 7:02PM
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Kev
Posts: 7411 - Karma: 35
i wanna see shane rips with these skis!

the mounting sounds wack, im trying to imagine myself skiing with pontoon's mounted like that.....
Mar 26 2006 7:05PM
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Edward.
Posts: 9366 - Karma: 445
im guessing its because its more comfortable for him
think about it, maybe because our skis are v shaped wen were sitting on a lift, maybe
Mar 26 2006 7:19PM
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AKFREERIDE
Posts: 1718 - Karma: 11
jesus crist, this mans a thinker. and as said above in the posts, its to keep the tips from catching. its scary when rippin down something and your tips catch. my god damn seth pistols did that this weekend. i was transitioning from a right tele turn to a left tele turn, and those god damn rivits/studs caught causing me to eat my tip.
Mar 27 2006 12:05AM
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Vicious
Posts: 3862 - Karma: 140
I agree with jibthis' explanation in that the V is to compensate for natural lower body alignment.

However, I don't agree with the fact that it is to prevent tips from overlapping/catching.

If you think about it, if your feet are mounted in a 'duck' stance (or V shape), if you tried to point your toes directly forward, the tips would overlap more.
Mar 27 2006 12:27AM
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Ryanvdonk
Posts: 12811 - Karma: 1,971
capping has effect because it lightens the ski, and because of where it lightens the ski (directly over the edge) it is easier to transfer your wieght, it is a minor difference that you probably woouldn't notice unless you had two of the exat same skis one capped and one sidewalled. as for the atomics, i am aware of it, though i was just pointing it out, and they are still keeping it on all their racing skis as well as the PIMPs, the Deviants, and the pipe triplets.
Mar 27 2006 12:46AM
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bdskier
Posts: 932 - Karma: 14
^very, true, i was thinking the same thing. But the potential improvements of being in a more anatomical position are huge, significant strength gains can be had with slight tweaks to biomechanics. Could be a potentially huge advancement in skiing, why we are stuck thinking our toes must be going straight forward for us to be is weird.

I slalom waterski and my back binding can be pivoted for comfort. Skiing with it slightly out provides a lot more strenght in my on side turns, it does diminish my offside however, so i've found myself going to a strait stance.

But snow skiing doesn't have an onside and an offside, both are onsides, could be an added leverage point.
Mar 27 2006 12:52AM
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
It is to compensate for your natural stance of toes pointing outwars, as some people have said already, not to keep tips from knocking together. Fischer had a ski with this recommended angles mounting three or four years ago, and some boots are offset like this too - it's nothing new. Mounting them accuratly like that would be tricky though - shims/coins between the ski and jig?
Mar 27 2006 1:57AM
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wazzucrewskier
Posts: 2269 - Karma: 151
thanks for correcting that. i just remembered after i typed that that atomics are capped. but yeah, i can see where each would have advantages.
Mar 27 2006 2:24AM
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Jib_This
Posts: 8272 - Karma: 9
My guess is free-mount, but how you'd do it so that your forward pressure would stay correct is beyond me.

Maybe a jig without feet that you can simply clamp on?
Mar 27 2006 2:46AM
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prophet
Posts: 4734 - Karma: 1,007
i just want to say that after a whole bunch of years racing and learning to keep my knees parallel, for the purpose of running parallel edges... V-stance sounds pretty voraciously vaudevillian and venomously villainous. but pain is mcschlonkey
Mar 27 2006 3:23AM
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Dan.
Posts: 7201 - Karma: 1,126
thats the first time i've ever heard 4 multi-syllabled words starting with V in one sentence.
Mar 27 2006 3:43AM
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strode
Posts: 7549 - Karma: 14
^someone hasn't been boning up on his current big name blockbuster viewing then.
Mar 27 2006 3:46AM
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Dan.
Posts: 7201 - Karma: 1,126
what film have i been missing?
Mar 27 2006 3:50AM
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Jib_This
Posts: 8272 - Karma: 9
V is for Vendetta. Natalie Portmann is in it, and she's hot. Maybe not in the movie, but she's hot for real.
Mar 27 2006 3:52AM
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chrismoJBEATS
Posts: 5898 - Karma: 44
yo so whats a better pow tool the seth viciuos ior the pontoon?
Mar 27 2006 11:09AM
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schmies
Posts: 2032 - Karma: 511
The sidewall Pontoons are all the ones with different flexes and shapes built by hand here on Vashon Island. That much sidewall also increases the overall weight of the ski, thus they are cap construction for production.

We try out different skis with athletes throughout the year, but do not build specialty skis for everyone. Some people post that Seth's skis are custom made race stock, but in fact are just what you buy at the store. He'll tell you that too.
Mar 27 2006 1:52PM
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.[sanhedrin].
Posts: 1652 - Karma: 932
I am curious to see what they look like, so take a picture and post it, please.
Mar 29 2006 10:38PM
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iggyskier
Posts: 10447 - Karma: 10,018
the sidewall ones?

the exact same shape...white blank topsheet and blue sidewalls.

thats it
Mar 29 2006 10:45PM
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