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Anti drug argument

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jibberkid69
Posts: 1539 - Karma: 90
i know that most everyone gets high or at least gets drunk, or if you dont, you probably dont give a fuck since you ski and see that shit all the time, but for all you sober cats out there that arent down, whats the issue? im just trying to understand your argument, why does it matter to you wether other people drink or do drugs as long as it doesnt affect you?

this probably isnt the place to do this cause almost everyone gets down here, but if there are any of you that dont, enlighten me to your side of the story, im not trying to get down on you at all, just curious
Mar 16 2006 1:16AM
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Tasche
Posts: 5422 - Karma: 99
one word or uh a collection of letters

D.A.R.E

It has told kids to hate drugs and drug users for their whole life.
Mar 16 2006 1:18AM
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freezed
Posts: 12973 - Karma: 500
Well, since you are asking,

I care about it because two of my close childhood friends were killed at the same time by a drunk driver. Their parents lost both of their children at once.
Mar 16 2006 1:18AM
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Arabian.
Posts: 9632 - Karma: 55
Its because they believe everything that is fed to them by the government or teensfact.org and look down on everyone else for doing something illegal. They think they're all high n mighty but their wrong. they are all wrong.
Mar 16 2006 1:22AM
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gmack24
Posts: 4636 - Karma: 31
abstinent people are usually excessively nervous about everything, it's just a mindsey
Mar 16 2006 1:23AM
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jibberkid69
Posts: 1539 - Karma: 90
but do you really think that was alcohol or just a person being extremly irrisponsible. i agree that drugs can make you make some really bad decisions, but that comes down to a person's own responsability. if someone drinks to much and get in a car its THEIR fault for being a dumb ass, and i think that they are just using the alcohol (or drug) as an excuse for their own poor decision making
Mar 16 2006 1:24AM
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Tasche
Posts: 5422 - Karma: 99
First of all I am really sorry to hear about your friends. That really sucks and drunk driving is a huge problem.

But it is not the liquor it is the irresponsible use of liquor. I think that if poeple are taught that they can drink if they want but just understand where and how to do it. Instead DARE says that you cant drink ever and it will make you feel like shit. So kids try it and they are like "fuck man I feel great and I can talk to anyone no more being embarrsed." So then they are like ok well then dare was full of shit so everything they said was wrong. Long story dare suck and a new responisble drug program and not a anit drug program is in order.
Mar 16 2006 1:25AM
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j.bird
Posts: 6680 - Karma: 15
That isn't the reason why most people dislike drugs.

Let's face it, drugs are not accepted as ok by society in america. So as long as people think it is bad, and see people doing them, they will continue to stereotype them. It gives skiiers a bad rap, thinking we all smoke in the trees, etc.

Also, as much as people like to say, it doesn't hurt anyone but me... but thats not true. Mothers who do drugs or drink when they are pregnant hurt the babies, and i once saw a pregnant bitch at a party I was at, and she was about to hit this pipe, and I almost slapped the shit out of her. it made me SO fucking mad that she would fucking ruin this kids life, because she wanted to blaze a little at some kids shitty ass party.

And when people get hurt as a result of drunk/impaired driving it bugs me also. Many people will say, I can drive fin while high. Some people can, and others can't, would you like to find out on a 2 lane highway one night? me neither.

And for the last of my random thoughts, where does your drug money go? it goes from a person who worked hard to get the money, to eventually some people who are heavily involved in crime. Whether it be just little crimes here and there, to full fledged organized crime, or even overseas crime and "terrorists" for a lack of better words. The money obviously isn't going anywhere good.

As much as I preach all this I don't expect anyone to change there ways, and I too smoke a bit here and there and drink a bit here and there. but you asked for counter arguments, so I made them. ok bye now.
Mar 16 2006 1:25AM
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j.bird
Posts: 6680 - Karma: 15
WOW. I have never seen such sterotyping in my life. Holy cow. Just because they think people are wrong for doing illegal thinks makes them wrong? You aren't backing your argument with anything other than huge accusations and shitty ass assumptions. Please grow up.
Mar 16 2006 1:27AM
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jibberkid69
Posts: 1539 - Karma: 90
i get high in the trees
Mar 16 2006 1:27AM
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j.bird
Posts: 6680 - Karma: 15
you want a prize or something?
Mar 16 2006 1:32AM
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jibberkid69
Posts: 1539 - Karma: 90
well skiinstead, your stories have done nothing but re-enforce my argument. when you tell a story about some dumb bitch burning while she was pregnent, how is that weeds fault? just because that girl is an irrisponsible idiot doesnt make it the drug's fault. thats like saying that a mother that leaves her baby in a car while she does her groceries was forced to do it by the car. NO, THATS FUCKING BULLSHIT, its just people that cant deal with their own responsabilities and are trying to find something else to blame because they cant deal with blaming themselves.
Mar 16 2006 1:34AM
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jibberkid69
Posts: 1539 - Karma: 90
and yes, i do want a prize
Mar 16 2006 1:34AM
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jibberkid69
Posts: 1539 - Karma: 90
and as far as supporting evil organizations, what do you have to say to a person that grows their own weed?
Mar 16 2006 1:36AM
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Arabian.
Posts: 9632 - Karma: 55
Its not that, let me explain. i was just kinda joking around but a will contribute to this conversation a bit. oKAY. Its not that they are wrong for thinking that doing something illegal is wrong, its that the information they base THEIR stereotypes and assumptions on is incorrect. Weed should not have been made criminal in the first place, and for proof of that, try watching reefer madness or the history channel special. Not only was weed made illegal through gov't propaganda and entrapment, but the government also based its reasons on the "facts" that: 1. Black people were fond of it, so supporting it would mean to were on the negros side. 2. If you smoked it you would kill your brother over a snack. and 3. it made you go insane. That wraps up the weed thing.

Alchohol is a different story. Like jibberkid said, its all about responsibility and knowing what your limits are, what not to do etc. But, in the same way the same for weed too. but weed is less dangerous.

Now, those people who look down on other people for doing these things, i have to say, you are buying into alot of bullshit. Think outside the box and don't knock it til you try it.
Mar 16 2006 1:40AM
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freezed
Posts: 12973 - Karma: 500
exactly.

that was very well put.
Mar 16 2006 1:41AM
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j.bird
Posts: 6680 - Karma: 15
The analogy you made was not even close dude. Cars don't alter your mind state.

And on a side note I am not saying that drugs should never be used, i totally agree that It is someone's own choice. However you asked why people thought it wasn't a good idea, and i told you why most people think drugs are bad. I too have burned one down in the trees, as have a BUNCH of skiiers.

I also never said that it was the weeds fault for the girl to smoke. She wasn't even impaired when she started smoking. I am saying that people make shitty decisions to use drugs, when it really does effect others. People use shitty as judgement when it comes to drugs, and I think it definitley gives them a bad name. And rightly so, they can alter amind state to where a person can't think for themselves or make good decisions. it also doesn't help when the people can't make them while still in a clear state of mind. This is what most people associate drugs with, is these type of people.
Mar 16 2006 1:42AM
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Arabian.
Posts: 9632 - Karma: 55
Weed does not alter your mind state. if you did it, then you would know that. Do NOT speak out of ignorance or what you were fed by your dare teacher, which, in essence, is the same thing.
Mar 16 2006 1:44AM
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jibberkid69
Posts: 1539 - Karma: 90
dude, wyatt (hoho420), your a dumbass, weed definatley alters your state of mind, IT GETS YOU HIGH. and skiinstead, im so stoked you actually had an intelligent response instead of just calling me gay or some shit.

your definatley right, that was a bad analagy, but other things can influence people to do bad things just like drugs, like what about $$$$$. i think it really just comes down to personal responsability
Mar 16 2006 1:47AM
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Arabian.
Posts: 9632 - Karma: 55
It never altered my state of mind. i guess thats why i quit. my bad. i thought that was for everyone. now mushrooms, thats some good shit.
Mar 16 2006 1:50AM
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j.bird
Posts: 6680 - Karma: 15
Exactly.

The problem is, most people think that others aren't capable of making there own decisions. (And some have proved that by doing stupid things while on drugs) But you can't stereotype the entire population into making it illegal. Society just doesn't trust people to make there own decisions.
Mar 16 2006 1:53AM
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j.bird
Posts: 6680 - Karma: 15
And like i said, If you actualyl read my post, it does alter the mind state. Thats why people do it. And yes I am an occasinal smoker, but i try not to more for the sake of being able to breathe when I play sports. I have terrible cardio stamina as it is, and i can tell after smoking a few bowls how shitty my breathing is when running.
Mar 16 2006 1:55AM
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dez22
Posts: 2959 - Karma: 65
Drugs are acceptable in society. Caffine in the morning to wake us the fuck up, tobacco during the day to help us through the work, and drinking at night to forget about the day. It's clockwork.

The fact is that these drugs have been in our/European society for a long time, and has come to be acceptable. When other drugs were being used such as weed, LSD, ect. it didn't 'fit in', so they tried to stop it.

The problem is that they have been lying, and are continuing (though it's a lot closer to the truth) to lie about drug information. Go watch the documentary 'the history of marijuana'. You'll see how the government lied their ass off throughout the years, including threats of death, insanity, and other fun filled lies.

However when it comes down to a person chosing to not do drugs, it's their own decision. Yes, people are misinformed and may have the wrong reasons for doing it. But in the end, it's there decision and if you don't really respect that then you're the one who's a fucking idiot, not them. Drugs are bad for you. Period. Just because they are lied about and extremely exadurated doesn't change that fact alone.
Mar 16 2006 7:13AM
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crooks
Posts: 14693 - Karma: 786
Drugs Are Rreally Expensive
Mar 16 2006 7:16AM
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P-JO
Posts: 6853 - Karma: 75
Drugs just have misconception written all over them. I think people who use drugs are typically impulsive, and are just trying to find a new outlet of pleasure or a different view on life. They're not necessarily bad people, just have made up their mind that drugs are the way to go for whatever reason.

http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_faq1.shtml

That webpage contains a lot of info, which I feel like is the closest to the truth you can get.
Mar 16 2006 7:30AM
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fucked_edges
Posts: 514 - Karma: 20
so fucking true.

im writing an essay for english 101 on how society has a warped view of drugs be it legal, illegal or behind the counter. all drugs are different but they do all change your brain chemistry. even sugar changes your brain chemistry. i mean, if we are talking about weed, if it is used responsably and in moderation there is only very slight side effects. my thesis right now is: Like all things, drugs should be used with discretion and moderation weather they are legal, illegal or behind the counter.
havent really started on the essay but i will post it when im done...it might be for a week or 2 just because im lazy. drugs can fuck with your head if you cronicly use them day after day or even less than that. every decition one makes can and will have side effects. how bad those side effects are direcly reflected by how stupid the decition was. thats where people have to use there own descretion. so if your not going to use drugs recreationally fine, thats your decition;no risk no reward. but if you do decide to recreationally use drugs, be it alcohol, weed, coke or crack, E, lsd, meth, dxm in cough syrup, even caffene or nicotene, remember that every action you make has side effects. USE YOUR FUCKING HEAD
Mar 16 2006 7:51AM
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Ghost82nd
Posts: 1240 - Karma: 10
i completely agree. wow well put.
Mar 16 2006 11:43AM
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fucked_edges
Posts: 514 - Karma: 20
thanks man, its good to hear that
Mar 16 2006 12:10PM
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ski@work
Posts: 419 - Karma: 6
In the end doesn't it all come down to personal responsability?? I mean I don't drink at work, so I drive home. I drink at bars.. I don't drive home. That makes sense, If you want to get drunk/high do it, just know what the effect on you is and be responsable for your actions afterward. It's the same when I blaze.. No different at all. That's why people who blame being drunk/high on why they did something stupid piss me off... Maybe the very first time you drink, after that it's your responsability to know how it effects you. Mind altered or not. If you do something stupid, the booze/smoke isn't to blame, it's up to you.
Too many people today are looking to blame someone else for thier own mistakes. Suck it up and take responsability for yourself.
Mar 16 2006 12:13PM
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-benedetto
Posts: 5238 - Karma: 1,359
yeah its THEIR fault for being a dumbass but why should innocent people die because it was SOMEONE else's fault? wreckless shit happens when you drunk, face it, its the truth. no matter where the party is at, drunk people cause drama and wrecklessness. i think smoking is the way to go. but for gods sake just don't drive high. i'm kind of being hypocritical cause i make a lot of bad choices but i know whats right. we all know whats right but we're stupid teenegers. but who doesn't like being able to talk to anybody or any girl just cause your drunk. a lot of kids need alcohol and weed to have friends and some kind of social life. think about when you started smoking, not true for all but didn't you make new friends? when your drunk or high don't you talk to people but never again in your life? some kids like that, gives them a place somewhere in the social chain. for others its to look cool. for some its just to go to a party and see who can drink the most fucking beer.

when i used to be sober after i got hit up with upm cause i was a fucking dumbass, i was sober for a while. basicall my anti-drug was F|a|m|i|l|y| and my d|a|d| cause they were so disappointed. then i started again then it was my girlfriend. but now we recently broke up and yeah
Mar 16 2006 12:15PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Illegal /= wrong.

I need to get my essay on SIS back...
Mar 16 2006 12:17PM
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asac
Posts: 12485 - Karma: 17
i
Mar 16 2006 12:19PM
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j.bird
Posts: 6680 - Karma: 15
I'm not disagreeing with you. He asked why people had negative thoughts on drug use. So i gave him many ideas on why most people think that it is wrong, because it is illegal. And there is truth in that. People will always assume that if something is illegal that it is wrong. Just the way it is, I'm not saying that anyone who uses drugs is right or wrong, I am simply stating the fact that the majority of people see illegal activity as wrong.

He threw out a HUGE stereotype by saying that anyone who doesn't use drugs is wrong. I was defending a point, and still stand by what I said, I think you misunderstood what I meant.
Mar 16 2006 12:33PM
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MitchPee
Posts: 8871 - Karma: 1,509
I hate the advertising campaign that drug money goes to terrorists. I saw a percentage on TV that like 75% goes to terrorists...YEAH my ass. First off I know where the weed I get comes from. I know someone that grows it and I grow it. The only terrorists that are getting money is the opium farmers (they barely get anything) and the coke dealers in South America. The people in South America don't give a shit about bombing us. Maybe in Nicaragua they do, but where the coke comes from they don't. Why would they want to kill people here, something like 80% of their business is done here.
Mar 16 2006 12:40PM
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MitchPee
Posts: 8871 - Karma: 1,509
Yes I know Nicaragua is in Central America...just clarifying that.
Mar 16 2006 12:42PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
I don't think he was trying to imply that it's wrong to not use drugs, only that they're wrong to feel morally superior simply because they don't use them. And he's right... they are wrong to think that. See: your 1st year political science textbook. Gooooooo Harm Principle!

"...the sole end for which mankind are warranted, individually or collectively, in interfering with the liberty of action of any of their number, is self-protection. That the only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilised community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not sufficient warrant. He cannot rightfully be compelled to do or forbear because it will be better for him to do so, because it will make him happier, because, in the opinion of others, to do so would be wise, or even right...The only part of the conduct of anyone, for which he is amenable to society, is that which concerns others. In the part which merely concerns himself, his independence is, of right, absolute. Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign." -J.S. Mill, "On Liberty"
Mar 16 2006 12:42PM
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MitchPee
Posts: 8871 - Karma: 1,509
The same thing with coke. Coke was said to be the cause of why black people raped white women (no lie). Government officials actually used this in reports.
Mar 16 2006 12:44PM
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Petey.
Posts: 5736 - Karma: 4,885
hey i dont do drugs or drink but i wont bother me if other people do cuz thats them not me
Mar 16 2006 12:49PM
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waynewong
Posts: 1359 - Karma: 23
The arguement over person choice is a mute point in regards to how drug use affects society.

You may argue that what you do in private has no affect on others. And to a certain degree you are correct. However, certain drugs have a HUGE impact on communties and society.

Example - Crystal Meth
The Following Impacts Are all Negative and Affect non-users of the drug

Destroys families
Increases local crime
Increases dependance on social welfare programs
Costs tax payers money
Causes gang violence

If you have ever been to a meth town, I highly suggest you go, it is amazing how destructive this drug is. Go to elko nevada and see for yourself how negative the social impact is of this drug.
Mar 16 2006 12:51PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Waynewong: You need to look at the direct action. Perhaps through a long chain linking back to gangs who ruin areas by committing crimes, etc, the act of doing meth hurts others, but with every "level removed" from the action itself you get, the justification for restricting that action weakens significantly. A "six degrees of separation" argument can usually connect just about ANY action to crime and social harm if you go back far enough along the chain, it's a matter of drawing a line, past which moral blameworthiness can't proceed. This kind of reasoning is why it might be justified to restrict the dealing or producing of meth (arguably more directly contributing to harm), but simultaneously not restrict its use (more indirect).

There are also big logical problems with your consequentialism and what it's based on but we won't get into that.
Mar 16 2006 12:57PM
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Davevinc1080
Posts: 723 - Karma: 10
tahts a good reason. you should be responsible if you do it
Mar 16 2006 1:01PM
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waynewong
Posts: 1359 - Karma: 23
As a tax-payer and homeowner my best interest now lies with larger scale concerns.

If use of a drug causes me to pay more money out of pocket due to indirect consequences of the drug use (social issues etc) then my best interest is to limit or eliminate use.

On a base level, informed and "proper" usuage of drugs has little effect on others...but when multiplied by millions of users, the little affects add up to HUGE numbers.

Car Insurance premiums would be one such consequence of increased drug use.

Medicare supplements by tax payers

Decreased property values

School district costs related to drug use (couseling, testing, treatment, insurance etc...)

you cannot seperate the user from use
Mar 16 2006 1:31PM
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BCKicker540
Posts: 1283 - Karma: 11
i definitely think responsibility is the biggest part. sure i drink and smoke, but not in excess and not all the time. anti drug commercials present an extremely skewed picture of people the smoke, these commercials basically claim that trying pot will ruin your life. sure if you smoke several times every day of your life youll get negative consequences, but few people go that direction. i think the most ignorant commercial i ever saw was where they connected weed to terrorism, implying that anyone who smokes hates america and supports terrorists. this one guy has a lecture with "facts" about how terrorists use drugs to finance their operations. then this other guy says, "so if I buy a bag of dope, maybe 5 cents go to terrorists. the other guy responds with "so its ok to support terrorism a little bit?''. this is about as far from the truth as you can get. pretty much all weed that kids buy is grown by U.S.(or canadian, or wherever you live) growers. it is true that some terrorists deal drugs to make money, this commercial neglects the fact that this really only applies to bigtime international hard drugs, like coke and heroin. i could go on much farther with this rant, but i don't want to. the moral of the story is: blaze responsibly and support your local growers.
Mar 16 2006 1:32PM
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Badfish2
Posts: 3453 - Karma: 21
the ferry driver from spain to morocco gets a cut
Mar 16 2006 1:36PM
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waynewong
Posts: 1359 - Karma: 23
unfortunately the weed to gand ties are stronger than I wanted to really believe.

In nortehrn california, a traditionally laid back do what you want, grow what you want area....has now become home to mexican controlled "farms" on public land. These geurilla pot farms are guarded by armed mexicans who work for the very same gangs that import Meth and guns into our country.

No, your buddy with a plant in his closet does not contribute to terrorism.

But there are direct ties between marijuana cultivation and gangs...

Areas in humbolt county that used to be safe to mtn bike or hike/camp in are now dangerous guarded area run by sketchy violent "farmers"

times have changed quite a bit...look at the British Columbia/US trade - police and border patrol have confisacetd guns/hard drugs/and millions in cash ...
Mar 16 2006 1:38PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
Anybody in here against the most widely used drug in the world?

Caffeine.
Mar 16 2006 2:38PM
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PimpDaddySkier
Posts: 4221 - Karma: 20
damn you have everything wrong man

Destroys families: what the fuck are you even talking about? how would crystal meth destroy families at all?

increases local crime: wtf? how?

dependence on social welfare: ? all of these are just extreme cases, which usually never happen

cost tax payers money: thats because the government makes it illegal and they have to spend money to try and fight it which is worthless anyway, so thats the governemetns fault

gang violence: i could see that
Mar 16 2006 2:42PM
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PimpDaddySkier
Posts: 4221 - Karma: 20
quinny my man! step up your game with one of your infamous rants in hurr
Mar 16 2006 2:42PM
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waynewong
Posts: 1359 - Karma: 23
I really hope you are joking -

You cannot be further from the truth - Cystal is a epidemic here in california and nevada. It is the worst drug and destroys you physically.

Destroys Families - Everytime, any idea how many addicted single mothers we have here in Reno?

Increases Local Crime - there are areas of Sacremento that have dozens of car thefts a day ALL by meth heads supporting their addiction (this is a fact)

Dependence of social welfare - All these people end up being arrested or treated at some point and hwo the hell do you think pays for it? WE DO
Mar 16 2006 2:55PM
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PimpDaddySkier
Posts: 4221 - Karma: 20
destroys families: did they start before or after becoming divorced? we have no idea

i agreed with you on local crime

dependance on socail welfare: i dont even give a shit anymore crystal meth is for idiots
Mar 16 2006 2:57PM
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*Four*Zero*Six*
Posts: 1479 - Karma: 10
well im not even gonna go into depth here but after the things and people ive seen dointhat crap all through out my life i just decide that it wasnt what i wanted in life.but i still party but i only drink at them now and i make sure i have a DD before i go.
Mar 16 2006 3:42PM
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