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Muslim/middleast debate thread
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I have said some very stupid things on NS after seeing the aftermath of the danish cartoon. in this thread i want to actually discuss the middle east and the muslim culture clashing with the rest of the world without any stupid comments.
the first thing I am going to say is that after wathing almost 8 hours of news today the reaction of muslims is fairly disturbing. a Danish person draws a cartoon of thier Prophet and they riot, yet they cut off are soilders heads, burn thier bodies, say death to america and insult us everyday. thier reasoning is a little off. in my point of view it is the middle east against the world with the exception of korea and iran. and i know a lot of people think its just muslim extremists but a lot of the tape the news shows is woman and children burning flags and shouting death to whoever. and i know a lot of the media shows slanted coverage but i cant belive that something that gets so much coeverage and is widely preached is only believed in by the minority.
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Shit i should of said Islam
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No your right. There is a much greater percentage of Muslim people that share faily disturbing views. And its Europes fault for having such lax immigration laws. Its a fiasco in Sweden where immigrants in the south have set up shanty towns where the cops are scared to go.
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Imagine what we would think if we found out that a prominent and respected Middle Eastern newspaper was printing the same kind of comics depicting Jesus in the same way.
Only imagine we had actually been bombed, invaded, and occupied dozens of times of times in the last 15 years?
How many Middle Easterners would already be dead?
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Dude its the Danes who printed this shit, not America. And even if it was us, im not sure if i see the logic behind beheading peaceful Danes.
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we should synthesize really expensive h3 helium from egypt to mecca, stopping by chechnya of course, and israel.
The only way to stop the killing is complete eradication. once we realize how stupid that is, we start to understand how the world is a complex place. It was looking good for a while, abbas promised peace, syria pulled out of lebanon, etc. Now, hamas was elected, but by far the biggest problem are a bunch of shabbab missiles literally with Israel's name on them and a lunatic who wants to acquire weapons grade uranium who believes in the apocalypse, thinking he is a prophet from god.
Now, sharon is dying, the UN is nothing, the US is spread to thin, britain cant go to war again, france and germany wont and the russians are willing to give Ahmadinejad uranium.
Better get some good skiing done.
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It was the danes who printed the article in the first place, but it has been reprinted multiple times since (most recently by Jordan, which only solidified their position in the Middle-East as America's whore). The backlash is genrally not against America, but rather against Scandinavian countries. North -America has a high concentration muslim immigrants, never would one of our newspapers dare publish something like that, it would be the death of them. Extremist muslims are just mad at America because they always have been
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what people don't realize is that it is extremists, but you don't see regular muslims denouncing what they do and trying to stop. They let it go on. The main job the gov. needs now is translators for muslim to english because it is one of the hardest languages to translate and learn. If they truely wanted to show that it is only extremists then they would do something about it to single them out or try and stop the extremists. When they don't do anything it is supporting what the extremists want
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However, the korhan is a little bit more advanced than we give it credit for. One of the biggest problems with religions is that the ideas are lost, because we are too focused with the person, be it the messiah or the prophet. We pray to the face of jesus, but do not follow his ideals. We humanize ideas to simplify them, and even can be used in exploitation like the red god.
The korhan had seen this happening. So it is in the korhan, to never show a likeliness of Mohammed and Allah. Allah is never even described in the korhan. Its not the satire that these people are pissed about, its the simple depiction of their prophet. There are few things more blasphemous than that.
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MANY people have made cartoons about god, jesus , mary...etc, but none of the modern countries have rioted and kill people! the fact is a neutral country(Denmark) has a citizen who drew a cartoon. last time i checked the cartoonist wasent a world leader or any person of importance . yet the middle eastern people went fucking CRAZY. the only explanation for them being so hostile of thier religion is that they are scared of death and are trying to impress " Allah" so he/she(hehe) can let them into wherever they get thier virgins. it honestly makes them look like drama queens. a single person slightly insults them and the world must see thier fury
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im honestly pretty scared. world war 3 will not be countries fighting countires, it will be a clash of cultures that do not understand and cannot understand eachouther. it will bassicly be the western world vs the muslim/middle east culture. and by the looks of things, this is the beginnings of it. a few cartoons is all the muslim fundamentalis needed to get the whole world pissed off. can you immagine what it would be like fighting a war where the enemy believes that if they die in battle they are automaticly given a ticket to heaven, it is the ultimate reward, no thinking involved, total sacrafice. and its scary to think how large the fundamentalist take on the muslim religion is aswell. its not just in the middle east, as we all clearly saw in the case of the london bombings. the religion is one of the fastest growing around the world. i fear that if it comes down to war, like the fundamentalist leaders are trying to innitate, many counrites will side with them rather than the western world (and by western world i dont just mean NA, this includes europe austraila ect) beacuse their cultures better reflect those of the middleast/muslim world, than that of the western world. the biggest and scariest i can think of would be china, with such a large population and the finanical resources, i dont think this is a war the western world could win...
i know alot of that didnt tie well togther, just some thoughts on the topic. and im sure some terms arent correct.
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Iran is doing a contest for the best holocaust cartoon, fucking muslims
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im not suprised. bassicly what the mohammed cartoons represent is comparable to say, muslims preaching in north america and europe that the hollocust never happend. ie, hate crimes.
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yea, lol 2 kids in my History class are from Iran and they talk about it everyday.
suporting Nuclear power etc. my teacher is like fuck that, the U.S. will bomb Iran soon enough. good laugh
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You guys missed my point.
First of all, not all Muslims want to hurt Westerners or anyone else. But we do see them on TV yelling at us, and swearing death to America. So yes, there are some like that. They are extremists, and for absolutely no reason hate the Western world.
But you also have to understand that the US has dropped hundreds of thousands of bombs on Iraq and Afghanistan alone, and have killed over a thousand more civilians than all the terrorist attacks against the Western countries combined.
So why is it such a big deal that they printed what they did in the Netherlands?
Ignore the insult and everything along those lines (which are bad enough), and look only at this: How do we look in the eyes of the normal, non-extremist's eyes?
What if only 10% of them think to themselves, "Oh Allah, are they really all against us?"
And what if they then remember the speech the Taliban recruiters gave the year before and wonder if they made the right choice in not joining a foolish war based on unfounded fears.
Not saying anything is the right or wrong thing to do here, but you have to look at it from their point of view as well.
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thats what they do, they get pissed off and burn some flags and shit
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thier point of view doesnt matter when it comes down to life and death, we are in a war, a fairly important war if you understand what we have started. the middle east is a fucking beehive, and like you said not ALL of them are extremeists but enough are that we should start treating the minority like the majority,and I dont know many people that take a CARTOON sooooo seriously, so after seeing a cartoon they say " oh allah why do the westerners hate us"?PLEEEASE!! and since when should we watch what we say about (im going to generalize here) the people who murdered 3k americans? I dont think we should be treating them with the respect we do know. they need to earn it. stop being so quick to exclaim "death to _______" the middle east Will not surive if they dont have a little tolerance for the rest of the world. they need to know that they dont have many allies, and that everytime they start riots over MINOR insults the WORLD get more annoyed
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im sory buddy, but thats where your wrong. its the western world that dosent have many allies. we are the minority here. most cultures would much rather side with anyone other than the western world.
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whaaaaaaaat! your kidding right? I will get back to you with some names in a couple minutes LOL
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North America
South America
Europe
south korea
japan
austailia
and you know thier are shitloads of small countries
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ok, im talking cultures here. real people, not governments and their treties. just because a government has somthing on paper with the good ol US of A dosent mean the people agree with it. If a war breaks out and the US starts bombing the shit out of innoicent people, people in other countries arent gonna be down.
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how bout china, they almost have the power to fuck us all over. china combined witht the middle east would fuck us all.
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how are north korea and iran innocent? if they are innocent they should not THREATEN to have Nuclear capability
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china and war torn iraq and iran. versus
USA
Britain
Germany
Russia
Japan
South Korea
Austrailia
Canada
Europe
South America
im not so good in foreign policy and relations so maybe im sounding like a moron but this is how i see it happening if it happens
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man, shit, just b/c the governments have and claim to have (in the case of n korea) nuke power dosent mean the people inside their countires deserve to die. there just like you and me. shit, if somone started bombing your home town b/c your government had nukes you would be pretty fucking pissed off, yet innocent at the same time.
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I'm not sure who has more irrational nationalism, the muslim community, or the United States of America. You're so much alike. How rational was it to run over wine bottles with a tank and change the name of a popular potato based side dish because the French pissed you off? Cancelling a new TV show in which Jesus talks to a guy named Daniel just because it makes conservatives nervous? The fact is, this whole situation is insane and stupid. In the end, they're just cartoons, and the crazy muslims looking for a reason to start screaming, form a mob, and throw rocks and flaming objects at embassies aren't worth much more than the rubble you guys left so many of them with to piss them off in the first place.
Bottom line? They're fucking nuts. So are you. Stop being crazy, everyone.
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Hey, leave us out of your bullshit, we're happy with curling and beaver pelts.
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ever heard of a little place called africa? or india, or the entire middle east (saudi arabia ect)
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exactly, im just scared either side wont stop being crazy and the entire world is going to pay...
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The usa if very patriotics right? we hate gays and abortion? we support bush RIGHT! will what makes you think 75% of North Korea Doesnt support Kim jong? from what i have seen he is like a god, and irans pres seems to have captivated his people, and 9/11 did piss me off I wanted to kill everyone related to the people who did it, BUT thier is a difference between bombing and a terrorist attack. and people in iraq iran and north korea are nothing like you and me. think about it. people who live in different gov types are obviously going th be different
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Thank you for proving that you have no idea what you're talking about. You're part of the problem here and you're every bit the raving lunatic these extremists are. For God's sake there are people in your country, and not a few, who bear that same irrational hate you're railing against in the middle east, for a fat guy from Michigan who made a few biased documentaries! You're no different from these people.
And government type doesn't change how everyone who lives in a society behaves. For christ's sakes, you don't even know anything about politics, and yet you manage to have an agenda and a set of political ideas. You're just plain wrong.
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dont forget the beer and the weed...
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Hey, don't start giving away our secrets or they'll add us to the "Middle East + Canada region".
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i am not a raving lunatic, and it is not irrational hate. i saw people that lived a couple minutes from me being murdered on national televison, i have seen thousands of american soilders die on tv, and now they are rioting over a cartoon and acting like they should be treated as if they have contributed to the world. please tell me that there are no differences between a north korean 17 year old and a american 17 year old. and if i know nothing about politics please educate me.
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I'm not here to educate you, I'm here to assert my own superiority to you.
... if that makes you angry, learn to take a joke, muslim.
The fact is, you saw people being murdered on TV byyyyyy... crazy people! Yes, crazy people did it. Crazy people are rioting on TV and doing a really shitty job of representing their religion. Just like all those crazy people did saying how much they'd enjoy torturing Michael Moore, bombing the French, and executing the anti-war crew because they're "traitors" (thank you, Ann Coulter!)
So much hate. It's not really very different. You're not very different. "They don't deserve our respect! They killed my friend! They they they!" Who the hell is they? Muslims? Because that's sort of like saying "The people with dark hair killed my friend! Death to people with dark hair!"
And if there's a difference between a korean 17 year old and an American 17 year old, it's cultural, not political. Give them a democracy tomorrow and see how the population doesn't change the way they think. The fact is, and here's a brief education, people under a dictatorship are just like people under a democracy. They're happy being ruled over until the regime stops being effective. Then they overthrow it in favour of something better. See: Suharto.
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porn links in your signature ehh ?
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You should visit sweden my friend.
Dont belive everything you see and read in your news... its not like that. I live in stockholm the capital of Sweden and here everyone is just acting veery mature about it. Ofcourse the skinheads and the islam fanatics are fighting, but hey. They allways fight over anything..
You cant allways be safe about nothing happen, but the cops arent scared to go into musslim territoty and the suburbs, and actually they are guarding the muslims so they dont get attacked by other organisations like the skinheads.
Allways think before ou act.
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This guy is right.
The dumbest thing you could do (unless you've been in Stockholm/Sweden and formed your own opinion) is to just read something like that and assume that's how it. Especially when you try to lecture others about it.
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The thing is, the West will win basically any non-nuclear conflict in the middle east. It all comes down to air superiority. I never agreed with the war in Iraq, but we sure as hell beat the fuck outta them in about 3 days. The military capabilites of these middle eastern countries are fairly low. Throw china in, and I dunno what would happen. But its not a given they would side with the east. The U.S. is a great trading partner to them, and really the middle east is no close to their culture than ours.
If nukes ever started flying, pretty much everyone would be fucked, so I dont think it matters. Although I would think Russia would join us against the middle east, and in this case we'd be fine. I dont think pakistan or india have any missles that can reach the U.S.
Basically I think the west would win in the event of WW3.
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You know what? FUCK RELIGION!
Thats right. Im Catholic, however I havent been to church in years. This makes me unreligious and I have really no care about it.
Live your fucking life people. A cartoon is a CAR*FUCKING*TOON! Welcome to freedom of motherfucking speach... holy shit...
I mean.. we have people in our own country making obscene cartoons like this all the time about our own leaders... We make Bush out to look like a monkey, Clinton to look like a clown.. whathaveyou... I mean... who. really. cares.
I just hate the way the media has hyped this thing up so much. Its really really lame.
I really just want to slap every hater on this planet... Everyone who has intolerance to another culture. A good portion of the people in the middle eastern countries have this intolerance. its similar to the intolerance whites had to blacks in america from... forever all the way up till the 60's and 70's.
Those people are uneducated and dont know jack squat about anything. They listen to whoever is willing to speak, and if that person has a biased opinion to hate america or denmark or france or britain or whoever they feel like.. They could cause hundreds of people who have very little knowledge about how life is like here in america, europe, china or wherever to have hatred against whatever country they feel like.
For example. If some crazy loonie from say... Jordan, wanted to start up alot of shit, he could go into a part of the country where there are pretty much no TVs or outside media sources of any type and gather those people up, hold an anti-whoever speach and give those people a biased hatred toward whoever. Now, this person from Jordan or Syria or wherever, could be totally informed about the world, and know perfectly damn well that the US is there primarily (or so we are told) to heal the wounds that Saddam gave Iraq. Yet, he can still incite a riot and parade of hatred upon any country from South Africa to Switzerland, he could literally make them all hate Antartica.
This is how a lot of this shit gets started. Its highly unfortunate. I wish crazy loonies like my made up man from Jordan didnt exist...
Now of course most people in the world arent like this, and Im sure im wrong SOMEWHERE in this reply, mainly because I am just on a neverending rant, but for the most part, im almost positive that I am correct here.
People need to wake up and smell the coffee... like really.
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how the hell could they win? the only way the west could win a war is on its own turf. take VIETNAM for example. the US did come in and take over, sure they had controll for a while, but they cannot stay forever, there just wsant the military support to controll the country and they were forced to pull out. as soon as they did, the North Vitenamese rolled in and killed it. now think of the war in iraq,the same thing is happening. the USA cannont support enough troops to win the war. sure they say they will train the iraqi people to defend themselves from the evil saddam regieme, but eventually the US has to pull out of iraq and as soon as they do, theyve lost and at the same time created hundreds of thousands of enemys in every iraqi that was effected by the war. sure Saddam was a horrible person, but atleast the iraqi people werent being bombed on a daily basis and forced to live in a war torn country, under his power. the US is just plain fucking things up, sure its great to gain power over the oil, (which can be the only reason there still in there) but in the end, they will only have created more enemys that they started with. and when the US finally does pull out of iraq they will have lost the war because they arent fighting a conventional war, there is no clear enemy. its the US vs whichever iraqi is fucking fed up with the US being there. and that my freind is not a war they cannot win.
the only posible way to win a war with the middle east would be, and i hate to say it, to wipe out the entire population.
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quote from kurt vonnegut:
"They invented algebra. Arabs also invented the numbers we use, including a symbol for nothing, which nobody else had ever had before. You think Arabs are dumb? Try doing long division with Roman numerals."
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those assholes, haha i know life would be diff with out it but those fuckers
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They really didnt invent Algebra completely, they just took alot of what the hindu's had done in india and rewrote it in a more complete way. I know this, I did a 5 page report a month ago on Al Kwarizmi, the guy who supposively created algebra.
This was also done when the middle east was run by the Islamic empire, which at the time was the most powerful nation on the planet. They were able to defend against the crusaders...
Either way, so what if they created algebra. Europeans invented the printing press.
Without the printing press, people would never even known what algebra is.
And being that most of the middle east is too poor to afford books even to this day, they still dont know what the fuck algebra even is. Or at least a good percentage.
Shit... Iraq's literacy rate is pathetic.
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Before anyone goes and drags religion into this....oh wait.
In any case lets look at some factors that are in play:
1. The Danish cartoons were published back in September. Does anyone else find it odd that the reaction has only come within the last week?
2. Iran and Palestine have both held "elections" recently. As we have all seen, both of these nations elected total nut-jobs. It's likely that the problems have only just started.
3. Iran is in front of the UN Security Council for the nuclear controversy. Hamas has now has Palestine in their control. Syria is also in under scrutiny.
4. Denmark is on the UN Security Council until the end of 2006.
5. Denmark has been the chairman of the UN Counter Terrorist Committee since 2005. For those of you that don't know, the CTC monitors the individual nations' obligations to combat terrorism.
Strictly blaming Islam on the events of the last week is extremely short sighted. Iran, Palestine, and other nations are encouraging their citizens to protest violently. Why? So their governments can further their power. Thats all this is about. Islam is such an easy tool for them because it is, without a doubt, the easiest of all major religions to manipulate. They toss their people around like garbage so they can try and gain an edge. Their people don't know what to believe accept what they tell them.
This kind of bullshit is part of the reason we went into Afghanistan and Iraq. These kinds of governments need to be exterminated. They prevent the world working as a community. It's a poison that needs to be dealt with.
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I'm gonna say one thing.
fuck those cavemen.
ofcourese there are alot of good muslims. Trust me, i have lived in singapore for 5 years, and spent nearly every other weekend during those five years in indonesia
but fuck'em
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