Martin is stepping down in next election

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@th1337

How many times have I heard THAT catchy oversimplification. Seriously, why do easy to remember, simplistic arguments always get repeated over and over? Oh yeah... so slow people can remember them.

An inquisition cleared him. Officially. Not that it matters anymore. PM the PM is no more and we can start finding nonexistent fault with a new Liberal leader. Why aren't we even talking about the very real and tangible past of Mr. Harper? What are our new prime minister's opinions about this country?

"You've got to remember that west of Winnipeg the ridings the Liberals hold are dominated by people who are either recent Asian immigrants or recent migrants from eastern Canada: people who live in ghettoes and who are not integrated into western Canadian society."

I'm a bit ashamed to be from the west now. I guess I should move to a ghetto or admit that I'm actually chinese.

"... make no mistake. Canada is not a bilingual country. In fact it is less bilingual today than it has ever been...As a religion, bilingualism is the god that failed. It has led to no fairness, produced no unity, and cost Canadian taxpayers untold millions.”

Why did Quebec vote for this guy again?

Jan 24 2006 10:02AM

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Badfish2

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he'll be needed again as finance minister to clean up again after Conservative tax cuts and spending.. thank heavens it's a minority

Jan 24 2006 10:12AM

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dbstar

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He didnt do a great job. He was a bad prime minister. People issues with government these days are so fucked up.

Jan 24 2006 11:12AM

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whattheshit

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I suggest you check your chairs. there have been recalls due to malfunctioning. if it says iso9003 underneath you should take it back.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=gullible

Jan 24 2006 11:20AM

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nothanks

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Wow, I don't even follow Canadian politics and he sounds like a total fuck-tard.

Candaian politics sound fun!

Jan 24 2006 11:50AM

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@th1337

Yeah... he kind of has a past of... regrettable opinions.

"In terms of the unemployed, of which we have over a million-and-a-half, don't feel particularly bad for many of these people. They don't feel bad about it themselves, as long as they're receiving generous social assistance and unemployment insurance."
Compassionate conservatism right there.

Speaking to the USA:
"I was asked to speak about Canadian politics. It may not be true, but it's legendary that if you're like all Americans, you know almost nothing except for your own country. Which makes you probably knowledgeable about one more country than most Canadians."
"[Y]our country [the USA], and particularly your conservative movement, is a light and an inspiration to people in this country and across the world."
Wow. He sure has plenty of respect for his country. Apparently he's right, though. I mean, they did vote for him.

He has his supporters, though, and he stands by them, which is admirable...

"Rob is a true reformer and a true conservative. He has been a faithful supporter of mine and I am grateful for his work."
Harper talking about Conservative MP Rob Anders, the guy who called Nelson Mandela "a Communist and terrorist."

"...but Betty Granger is a riding president, a member in good standing. She’s somebody that other members I’ve talked to think very highly of, and quite frankly, she was the victim of an unfair slur story in the last election campaign."
About Conservative MP Betty Granger, who used the term "Asian Invasion" to describe immigration patterns in the west and was subsequently criticized for racism.

But to be fair, he does have some funny quotes too:

"The NDP could be described as basically a party of liberal Democrats, but it's actually worse than that, I have to say. And forgive me jesting again, but the NDP is kind of proof that the Devil lives and interferes in the affairs of men."

Jan 24 2006 12:44PM

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Ryno

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you need a chill pill man. I dont feel like typing a novel every post to explain soemthing that can be summed up in a couple lines...i must be slow because of that.

And how do you not notice millions being pissed away while you are trying to balence everything (that would make a pretty big red portion of the sheets) and sudden all you liberal friends are driving sweet news Escalades (insert SARCASM here so you notice)?

Jan 24 2006 12:49PM

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@th1337

Time for my own oversimplifications because I don't feel like arguing with you, you've obviously got the lines to toss out machinistically and there's no point in engaging in any sort of discussion about this. So here they are.

1. You don't manage to embezzle funds without masking it in such a way that it is excessively difficult to identify. If something is hidden in this way, it is easy to miss, and "sniff out government corruption" was hardly in Martin's job description as finanace minister.
2. A judge whose job this was for months upon months, who dealt with this issue every day, decided that there was no reason to support the conclusion that Martin was at fault. And your 3 line long statement is supposed to stand against an inquiry? Give me a break.

I'm so finished talking about Paul Martin. He's out of office. Might as well be criticizing Mulroney at this point, or Manning or Clark. Manning, by the way, said Harper was full of himself, and Clark said that Canadians might not be so quick to elect Harper if they took a look at what he stands for. Those are conservatives.

Mulroney actually backed Harper... which is sort of like being backed by Richard Nixon.

Jan 24 2006 1:08PM

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Ryno

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ok that makes sense...im no pro hoe on embezzeling but you still need to be less of an arrorgant prick when trying to engage in a discussion with someone.

Jan 24 2006 1:17PM

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@th1337

It's not a discussion if you're just regurgitating the same party talking points that have been stated and restated a thousand times over the past year and a half. I get a little impatient because I'm sick of them. We don't even need to talk about it anymore, he lost, he's done, he's stepping down from leadership of his party. It's like running those fucking irritating election ads after the election. God am I glad I don't have to watch those things anymore...

Jan 24 2006 1:20PM

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Ryno

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every discussion needs a point to start at :P

Jan 24 2006 1:23PM

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freestyler540

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The guy is 67 years old. Most people retire at 55. Its not a question of non-confidence, its a question of age.

Jan 24 2006 1:32PM

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rockymountainmilitia

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Im sick of Liberal lying. Scandals, bullshit promises. Canada needs a sensible Conservative government to clean up all the shit going on in Ottawa. I am stoked it is a minority government, I think Harper is a little to much for a majority but the plans thats the conservatives have to put in place are sensible and easily achievable. Fuck, the Liberals main power hold through Chretian's (sp) time was getting rid of the GST. Fuck that. That is impossible. Harpers going to cut that by 2 percent. That will save canadians lots of money when buying houses or cars etc. Martin was a puppet, he did nothing over his time in power but make Canada's ties to the USA rattled. I think Canada is going to be better off having a minority Conservative government. Look at it this way, if the Conservatives screw up it will go right back to hwo it was after Mulroney. The Conservatives only had like 2 seats the year after he was booted.

Jan 24 2006 1:33PM

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@th1337

I agree with that; in fact, even if they don't screw up and just follow conservative policies, a lot of the people who gave him a bye in this election out of annoyance with the liberals will become acutely aware that he doesn't represent their political and social values, and he probably won't last too long. But you probably shouldn't be too happy with the minority. I walked into my poli sci class this morning and the first thing my (conservative voting) professor said was that this was the worst conceivable result for the conservative party. That might be a bit strong, but it ain't good... and you will see Harper call another election in two years, or sooner, depending ont he speed with which the Liberals reorganize and rebuild under new leadership. He needs to get a firm hold before they're strong again or the conservatives are going to have the riding distribution of the alliance party plus a few votes in quebec here and there.

Jan 24 2006 1:38PM

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freestyler540

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A conservative is the worst possible choice. People don't know what conservatism is. You neither apparently.So this is conservatism:
Conservatism is a desire to go back to the "golden ages" were religion and being "innocent" is a good thing.Its a time were people placed more trust in "superior" power than in themselves. Conservatives tend towards the rules of the church (no sex before marriage, no plaisure, be faithful, no woman rights, ect...).
Conservatism is a right view. A right[ist] view is someone who is more open to open market, more about profit and less human conditions.The extreme section is Nationalism or Nazi.Yeah you get the idea.
In our globalisation age, religion is less of a factor and progression for better pay and better human conditions rule. Technology is progressing and things cannot be reversed. Consevatives believe it can by blocking the reality of the world.(yeah, talk about abortion and sex...you will see that it disgusts him/her)
I hate it how conservative people are impredictable, almost as bad as the Pope. They wake up on morning and decides to invade another [Muslim] country and calls it "Liberalisation". Yeah, I think you know who I am talking about.
Now, just remember the goals of consevatism.Now see our world. Big diffrence eh?

Jan 24 2006 1:46PM

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@th1337

That's one definition of conservatism... it's pretty loosely defined... at its most universal, it's probably something like

1. Small government
2. Low social spending
3. No activist courts (ie: let's not fuck with the law that's been there for a long time)
4. Lower taxes
5. A morality based on religious values
6. A hobbesian view of international relations
7. Capitalism / Big business sympathies.

That list might be added to.

Jan 24 2006 1:55PM

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Crazy Fool

Ok im no pro on Politics but how many governments in the past have promised to lower taxes? Ive heard a lot of speculation that if Harper does lower the GST he will need to raise the already outrageously high income tax. I find it hard to beleive that any government can find a no strings attached solution to lowering taxes.

Jan 24 2006 3:27PM

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@th1337

The idea being that smaller government and less social spending will mean they don't need quite as much of your money...

Jan 24 2006 3:29PM

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Crazy Fool

True say, im no fan of less social spending but it really boils down to what you commit your party to. Canadians voted him in so I guess its what we want...

Jan 24 2006 3:33PM

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@th1337

I don't think the people who won this election for harper have any idea what they want, or if they do, they didn't vote for it. They voted for what they didn't want, that being another liberal government. Which is too bad. Because bad to worse kind of sucks.

Jan 24 2006 3:36PM

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No Life

Did your professor happen to explain why this result was the worst thing that could happen to the party?

As far as I see it, it just us a Conservative government balanced by the opposition. It gives the Tories a chance to prove to Canadians that they deserve to govern. If they produce results that Canadians are happy with, I see this Minority as a stepping stone to a Majority. If nothing gets done, then the Liberals will likely be back in.

I would have thought another Liberal government would be the worst thing for the Conservative party, but thats just me.

Jan 24 2006 3:42PM

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Crazy Fool

It sounds sad but it really seems that a lot of swing voters who voted Conservative over Liberal are simply trying this new government out.

Jan 24 2006 3:46PM

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No Life

Fine by me. It's a badly needed change. Give em' a chance. You never know, you might like it.

Jan 24 2006 3:47PM

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@th1337

He did say, I forgot to post this. Firstly because they can't really accomplish that much in the position they're in, and they're basically now going to be a big target. If they do accomplish anything, they'll be criticized for it being "right wing", and if they don't, they'll be criticized for not doing anything. Meanwhile, the NDP is strong and moving in a positive direction, and the Liberals, which were honestly getting pretty shabby overall as far as party image and cohesion, will be overhauled and revitalized and probably win the next election by a substantial margin... unless it's called before they can finish the renovations as it were. Even then it's likely to be a toss up. Which is why an election will be called within two years. All this notwithstanding monumental screw ups by either side obviously.

All this might even lead to the conservatives becoming the new Canadian Alliance: only winning seats out west. With the slight addition of a few votes in Quebec. That would be too bad, but maybe then they'd call the merger a failure and reinstate the PC party. Okay now I'm just fantasizing.

Jan 24 2006 3:52PM

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So anything they accomplish will be considered right wing. So, if the GST gets cut to 6%, thats right-wing. If the federal accountability act is passed, thats right-wing. If Harper's Child Care program is passed, thats right-wing. It seems like those ideas are pretty well liked by Canadians. I think they will be pretty widely respected and appreciated.

I agree that if and when Harper tries to pass legislation dealing with the Military, that won't go over very well, but thats one thing. Martin proposed tax cuts, but you never hear about that being right wing.

If nothing gets accomplished, yeah it will be bad. And the Liberals will win the next one. But it seems like the Canadian people are willing to see what Harper can do, and if he does it well I see more Conservative Parliaments in the future.

Jan 24 2006 4:01PM

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@th1337

Tax breaks can be spun in ways that will resonate with Canadians VERY easily. Believe me, you can make that look really, really right wing.

I'm sure you're very optimistic being who you are... but it's a lot bleaker than you realize. I guarantee there is plenty of concern within the conservative party, though obviously they wouldn't let it get out. They will try to prevent it, but really, preventing it will involve making a lot of policy concessions, which they've already had to do just to get elected. If they really become moderate, then yes, they might get elected again in future. But if they really are moderate then I don't care so much about them being there. The problem is, the Liberals are the "moderate" party of Canada, the NDP are the far left, the Conservatives the slightly less far right. Harper has said many times that Canada doesn't need another liberal party... so it's a question of whether he's willing to make the concessions they'll need to to keep the votes in their corner. I seriously doubt they'll win the next one unless someone screws right the hell up in what might soon be Frank McKenna's camp (or so the radio implied yesterday, as I was just reminded).

Jan 24 2006 4:06PM

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No Life

Stephen Harper is not stupid. Look at how much change his "personal" views have changed since the last election, as well those of the conservative party. It's a minority government, concessions are inevitable. If he proves he can be moderate, then just as you said, people wouldn't mind him being around. Thus paving the way for a possible majority the next time around. Who knows what will happen then, but Harper does look to the future, and hes probably smart enough to stay in power a little while.

A little luck can't hurt either.

Jan 24 2006 4:18PM

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Crazy Fool

Hes gotta be smart now that its only a minoirty. If he had the majority he could have had the freedom to pick and choose what promises that he wanted to go forward with now. Now though he needs to impress a very strong opposition who has a good bit of experience as a governing body. It should be an interesting year.

Jan 24 2006 4:21PM

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@th1337

Haha, I'd prefer to phrase it "Stephen Harper is not stupid. Look at how much change his personal views have "changed" since the last election..." But okay.

I think you need to be realistic, there will be no majority government for the conservatives EVER unless the liberals do something absolutely terrible. Basically, this was the best chance you were likely to ever get. Unless they reeeeally screw up...

Harper is smart, but he simply doesn't represent what most canadians are about. He can get in through votes against a scandalized liberal party, but not through votes for his party, when there is a legitimate, more politically "moderate" option (as the term is defined in a Canadian context).

Jan 24 2006 4:26PM

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Crazy Fool

The Liberals hold a lot of weight in Ontario where many of the seats in Parliament are held. If the Conservatives ever want a majority they really need to break the Liberal taboo in Ontario. Simply owning the west is not enough.

Jan 24 2006 4:30PM

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No Life

Obviously owning the West is not enough. The Tories have to continue to make inroads in Ontario, especially in Toronto. But to JD, I maintain hope for a Tory Majority, but we will have to wait and see. The next 2 years or so will be interesting.

Jan 24 2006 4:34PM

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And yes, i did put my air quotes in the wrong place. lol

Jan 24 2006 4:35PM

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@th1337

Yer... should be interesting indeed. Hopefully not overly depressing. FYI, Harper isn't a big fan of the "Tory" label, apparently he thinks it's elitist. Haha. If that's the case I think it's perfect for him.

Jan 24 2006 4:42PM

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whattheshit

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to many immigrants and low income people in toronto, it will never happen.

thats what they do, if you ever been in through lawrence park or rosedale, they group the ridings to include apartment complexes where the majority of the people in the building will be voting liberal to offset the conservative vote. they don't call it the wasp's nest for nothing.

Jan 24 2006 6:09PM

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Crazy Fool

I was watching the news and I didnt realize that the Conservatives failed to get any seats in the Toronto ridings. Where I am the two neighbouring counties ousted the Liberals and brought in the Conservatives, but hell...we can never make up our minds.

Jan 24 2006 6:17PM

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Badfish2

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you're right i think. the country seems to be moving more and more to the left.. a more socialist view. Harper even seemed to make many compromises opposed to his very right wing agenda by merging conservative with reform just to get as far ahead as he is.

He didn't win the election though, the Liberal party lost it.

Here's a question to all: what topic will be brought up first to trigger non-confidence?? the conservative platform must had points that must have been opposed to by ALL party's. Do you think the Bloc will take losing seats to conservatives lightly?? The Bloc can only gain by toppling the government... again...
politics is very, very interesting with more than 2 party's and a wild card like the bloc.

Jan 24 2006 6:34PM

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rockymountainmilitia

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Harper is a really smart guy and as for election debates the only candidate with valid answers to any of the questions asked. I dont understand how people are upset with Harper. Martin and his kooks stole from Canada, Jack Layton is a crazy socialist who will most def. put Canada into heavy debt. Harper is an economics man. He will do what is best for Canada to make our lives better and keep the economy growing.

Jan 24 2006 9:18PM

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mad_540_trix

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people are upset with Harper because he'd like to take away woman's rights, and he'd like to go to iraq with his friend george. Martin did not steal from Canada, he was cleared remember? i understand if you don't remember that, not a lot of people did on monday. Jack Layton is not crazy. i believe that Harper's party admitted that their plans for spending would put us into debt, so they'll have to raise taxes (correct me if i'm wrong plz, but i think i heard that somewhere).

Jan 25 2006 12:13AM

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edmonton_skier

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for once i couldnt agree more wiht jd

Jan 25 2006 12:15AM

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edmonton_skier

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if everyone took 23.4 seconds to know whats going on instead of relying on the headlines of monday's paper to see who there gonna vote for.. the conservatives would not presently be in "power"...

Jan 25 2006 12:17AM

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french_fry

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yup, the conservatives got in simply as the effect of a punishment to the liberals. Why many people acted in that way, is because they did not think about the consequence of their vote. JD described the situation well, and I agree. This better not last. I kind of feel that Canada has lost its multicultural, humanly advanced on some aspects identity seeing a conservative PM.

Jan 25 2006 12:41AM

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