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Never Ending Space?

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Hobojibber
Posts: 646 - Karma: 10
A long time ago on a field trip to one of those planitariums this guy was talking about space. I remember him saying that sum people belive that space is always growing and never ending. For some reason I thought about this the other day and said what if someone reached the end of space. What would be there? Would there be a wall? Would you fall? It really makes you think how little our knowledge is of the big picture. Space is so mind boggling..............
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Jan 12 2003 11:13PM
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TAK
Posts: 5007 - Karma: 14
Where would you fall?

And yeah...
















































































































... space is confusing.




''...if one was so inclined.''
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Jan 12 2003 11:23PM
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skibum1080
Posts: 943 - Karma: 6
It is mind boggling. Humans will never find all the answers to those types of questions. All we can do is ponder them.
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peace--->chris
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Jan 12 2003 11:27PM
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Hobojibber
Posts: 646 - Karma: 10
I think we can do more than ponder questions, we can answer them. How many fingers do you have?
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Jan 12 2003 11:57PM
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skibum1080
Posts: 943 - Karma: 6
i have 10, but maybe if you were smart enough to know what kinds of questions i was talking about, like deeper questions about the universe and stuff, then maybe you'll understand.
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Jan 13 2003 12:07AM
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PhattTim
Posts: 13943 - Karma: 83
I also have 10 fingers hobojibber. That was a very very stupid and inane example. There are sooo many questions that we will never ever be able to answer.

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Jan 13 2003 1:26AM
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lizziebeth
Posts: 1596 - Karma: 22
so we were having this same discussion in my physics class the other day, and my physics teacher said that there isn't an end to space cause you can't think about it like it's a box or something cause that's not how it is. you can't apply the dimensions and rules of measurement we use on earth becuase we know jack shit about space. only like 5 % of the universe do we actually understand.
but dude, don't lose sleep over this question.

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'i'm half awake and half a world away
and all my past mistakes and every mispent day
cause i'll never change i'll always stay the same
i wouldn't have it any other way
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Jan 13 2003 2:35AM
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coz
Posts: 1754 - Karma: 11
well, my interpretation is that it's constantly expanding.. therefore never ending.

read a brief history of time. it makes the quest for answers much easier.
Jan 13 2003 9:21AM
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aoe
Posts: 2947 - Karma: 51
how can we know 5% if it dosnt end. thats a contridiction now isnt it
Jan 13 2003 2:58PM
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CTripper
Posts: 6520 - Karma: 20
very good point to the person above me. Does anyone here believe that there is other forms of like in the universe?
-Chris Peck
Jan 13 2003 4:05PM
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MadTrixter
Posts: 3262 - Karma: 8
there's this theory that it canstantly grows, and as it grows it begins to grow faster. and finally it uses up all the molecules able to be pieced together from the big bang and it performs the big crunch, where all the molecules were used, but the momentum from how fast it was growing causes it to compress together into the same little molecule that existed before the big bang. some scientist believe this could have happened millions and millions of times already. i myself don't believe it, but find it to be an interesting theory


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Jan 13 2003 4:07PM
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aoe
Posts: 2947 - Karma: 51
the universe is constantly expanding. thats a fact. scientists believed the rate of expansion was slowing down. but recently they've discovered evidence that it is actually expanding at a quicker rate. we can't possibly begin to understand the universe because we simply dont have the brainpower. but just think about absolutly anything and it is or was happining in the universe or another dimension at one time or another. and i dont have an idea how anyone can posibly doubt were alone when the universe is infinate
Jan 13 2003 4:17PM
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Hobojibber
Posts: 646 - Karma: 10
Yah so if space is ever expanding, what is it expanding into? More Space?
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Jan 13 2003 6:24PM
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Ds91260
Posts: 9984 - Karma: 19
TAK confused me i thought this thread had no bottom and i couldnt reply, why do u do this to me, but my friends were talkin about it and they concluded its like pac man where if u go off one side then u end up on the opposite side, but this was after they concluded that if u go past the speed of light against the earths rotation then u go back in time and can meet yourself from the past and tell them about the future, but time travels a whole nother thing
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Jan 13 2003 6:27PM
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Hobojibber
Posts: 646 - Karma: 10
Don't get me started on time. It gets me so confused just thinking about like what if you went back in time would you change the present or would it stay the same, or would neither happen because its impossible to go back in time. The way I see it is that time doesn't exist. its just a form of measurement we've invented to measure or life. Kinda like an inch, when you think about it, it really doesnt exist. I don't know if that made any sense but its hard to explain by typing.
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Jan 13 2003 6:31PM
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LifeJacket
Posts: 2665 - Karma: 62
Space is nothing, nothing = something Space....


'I'm still Ugly'
Jan 13 2003 6:33PM
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Ds91260
Posts: 9984 - Karma: 19
i see what ur saying, its like there is no past or future, just the present, and i think if u were to 'travel back in time' u would be in a new present, like a paralell dimension
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Jan 13 2003 6:34PM
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gravteck
Posts: 2390 - Karma: 13
Actually it's possible to go back in time, it happens daily. However, this doesn't happen in Newtownian physics but in quantum physics. I can give one example of when photons travel back in time.

If black holes didn't give off radiation, they would violate the second law of thermodynamics. But our favorite genius Steven Hawking discovered that the horizon area of a black hole is proportional to the entropy of the black hole. Therefore the blackhole must be giving off something, and in fact it is giving off radiation. But for something to escape a black hole it must go backwards in time, and it does this on the quantum level, and these photons actually travel back in time. Thank you.
Jan 13 2003 7:32PM
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Hobojibber
Posts: 646 - Karma: 10
All though quantumphysics sounds like an established part of science, it is really just a bunch of theorys with theoretical answers. Im not rippin on it im just saying without sufficient field tests being capable of being done many few things can be established as actual fact. And with this quantumphysics is more a line of resonalble guess. its if this is true then we can go from there and assume this. I really dont trust quantum phys. and even if what you say is true it doesnt mean it is actually time. AMybe time is really another dimension?????
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Jan 13 2003 8:34PM
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gravteck
Posts: 2390 - Karma: 13
Don't trust quantum physics? lmao... almost every educated scientist in the world doesn't try to dispute the applications or existence of quantum laws. Just cause some of it doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean you should disregard it. What are you talking about, it's not time, some other dimension? We've labeled this dimension time. Of course nature's laws of physics don't 'call' it time. But it's the label we've given it. You can call it whatever the hell you want as long as it is applied consistently across the board.
Jan 13 2003 9:28PM
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skibum1080
Posts: 943 - Karma: 6
yah, i second what gravtech said. even though you can't see the laws/theories being actually proven, they still are very creditable and about every scientist uses quantum physics. so there.
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peace--->chris
***Go big or go home**Just Bodagin'***

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Jan 13 2003 10:19PM
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coz
Posts: 1754 - Karma: 11
correct me if i'm wrong, but the photon transportation you're speaking of isn't necessarily the actual transportation of a photon, but it is the act of copying a photons molecular makeup, and then creating an exact duplicate at another point in time.. ??
Jan 13 2003 11:12PM
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Chauncy
Posts: 61 - Karma: 10
Dude, here's wut sum1 should do. They should get a little tracking divice thingy and hurl it into space. It would tecnacly go until the universe stoped or it would just keep going.
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Jan 13 2003 11:18PM
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skibum1080
Posts: 943 - Karma: 6
good idea......(i hope you can sense the sarcasm when i say that)
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peace--->chris
***Go big or go home**Just Bodagin'***

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Jan 13 2003 11:25PM
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ECFS-Attitash
Posts: 2573 - Karma: 13
space must be never ending, because there is always something beyond the boundries that humans set for it. It couldnt just end in a wall, because something would have to be behind that wall...etc.

'You never hear Newt Gingrich say: Now why dont these hos just back up off me. I mean let a player play'
Jan 13 2003 11:31PM
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Hobojibber
Posts: 646 - Karma: 10
Good one Chris........( I hope you could sense the me being an asshole)

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Jan 13 2003 11:35PM
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skibum1080
Posts: 943 - Karma: 6
andrew (hobojibber), why don't you post your analogy of apples and oranges with regards to your skeptism to quantum physics on here and see what others think of it.
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***Go big or go home**Just Bodagin'***

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Jan 13 2003 11:39PM
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Hobojibber
Posts: 646 - Karma: 10
Im not saying quantum physics is completley irrelevant.

Im saying that its not the most solid evidence of exlanations of things. There are so many things that we do not know about space. No one has ever been all around space so you can say that planet begins like this because you see it through a telescope but you cant actually be there. You can say that it takes 10 legos to build this structre and take a picture. But im not there to actually witness for myself that there are 10 legos. People play tricks and so does nature. With out actually being there to see something and examine it every which way we can't say for %100 its actually this or actually that. But based on our current knowledge you can make an assumption about things. YOu can say all the things you want to about space, but as of right now you can't say that anything is %100 right because you cant have the evidence to prove that. Hopefully i have explained what i think in the most easiest way possible to understand.

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Jan 13 2003 11:44PM
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roswel
Posts: 427 - Karma: 11
i agree with most of the points on here to some degree.

as far as quantum physics: i'm no expert but i do have a basic knowledge of it. and yes although it is widely accepted in the scientific community there is no denying that a large part of it is based on theory. as is just about everything. for the past 25 years of my life the sun has risen everyday and it's reasonable to assume it will tomorrow but there is no guarantee, and until it happens i can't be absolutely sure. we can only ever be sure of what has happened and not what is going to happen, regardless of our knowledge or understanding of the universe. we make theories and assumptions based on data from the past. nothing we ever do is really in the present because the present is currently unfolding. blahblahblahblah.....





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Jan 14 2003 12:15AM
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gravteck
Posts: 2390 - Karma: 13
scientists can safely say a star exists at said point. Your reference to a photograph is not convincing. Not only is data on planets visual (and even from many angles). But the effect of the planets mass has on the rest of the universe. This is all a big part of the theory of relativity. The effect of this mass is of course gravity which is a function of mass and distance, which are measurable quantities by human devices.
Jan 14 2003 1:10AM
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ECFS-Attitash
Posts: 2573 - Karma: 13
almost every major sector of the scientific world is based on theory to some extent...that doesnt mean that for most of the cases its incorrect...it just means that it may or may not be true but at the current time it is accepted as true.

'You never hear Newt Gingrich say: Now why dont these hos just back up off me. I mean let a player play'
Jan 14 2003 1:35AM
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schlonginator
Posts: 3971 - Karma: 27
space is over-rated. It serves us no purpose apart from providing millions of billions of square miles to which we can eject our trash but thanks to hippies we can't! So apart from being a massive entity of space that no one can comprehend space is really really boring.

If you locked yourself in a pitch black room and sniffed heaps of petrol you would get the same effect as 'floating' in space



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Jan 14 2003 5:11AM
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Hobojibber
Posts: 646 - Karma: 10
Hey that was my idea. I was gonna come up with a company that ejects all our trash into another worthless planet like jupiter. Fuck, my ideas allways get jacked.

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Jan 14 2003 3:43PM
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CTripper
Posts: 6520 - Karma: 20
Didn't Levin first bring up that trash theory?
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Jan 14 2003 4:19PM
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Chauncy
Posts: 61 - Karma: 10
I tried thinking once, then I got a headache.
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Jan 14 2003 5:45PM
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andyrightcoast
Posts: 5220 - Karma: 18
Jupiter isn't worthless... Without Jupiter, the earth would be pummeled by peices of comets and such. Its like a big shield... (according to Popular Science)


-Andy

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Jan 15 2003 12:14AM
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schlonginator
Posts: 3971 - Karma: 27
why don't we eject our trash into the sun?? No gravity or friction in space means that is a can of trash was fired directly at the sun it would travel in a straight line till it reached the sun. THey could calculated orbits of other planets and shit so they could fire it at a speed so it wouldn't hit any other planets or meteors. That way the hippies are happy



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Jan 15 2003 12:39AM
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roswel
Posts: 427 - Karma: 11
that's not exactly correct. while there is no friction caused by drag(air), there are still a bunch of forces that would act on said can of garbage. the gravity of other planets and celestial objects and to some degree solar winds would affect any trajectory. it could be calculated but it would cost too much to do anyway. besides, we should reduce waste and try to clean up our planet before we wreck the solar system and beyond.



some cougar at jozo's-
'what do i have to do to get your friend to come home with me'
Jan 15 2003 1:03AM
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PhattTim
Posts: 13943 - Karma: 83
Because there actually is gravitational pull in space. You could work it out so that the trash wouldn't hit the planets but the planets' gravitational pull would affect the trajectory of the waste. You could counter it by making it a powered spacecraft to rocket its' way out of planetary orbits and gravitaional pulls but it would be a one use, very expensive affair. I really don't think it would pay off frankly.

And even though it is thought that the universe is rapidly expanding in every direction. No one really knows that, it's popular belief. In 10 years time they'll probably all laugh at us: 'HAHAHA, they thought the universe was constantly expanding, HAHAH fools!!'. Just like we laugh at man a few hundred years ago thinking the world was flat. I mean that was fact too wasn't it??

~~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~~
#Cut the Jibba Jabb Crazy Fools! Start Skiing!#
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Jan 15 2003 1:04AM
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sim
Posts: 1399 - Karma: -6
I'm willing to bet that the energy (rocket fuel) used to shoot the garbage into space or at the sun would pollute more than the actual garbage it sends away. Plus the fuel canisters actually fall back to earth too. And it would be redicoulously expensive. So your idea, at this point- sucks.

If the sun were to blow up, would we first know because we would see it, or because we would fall out of orbit?
This was a question I remember in my Physics class. This would basically mean that gravity travels faster than light, but according to my teacher he said that this theory was somehow proven wrong and even though we would fall out of orbit first, gravity wasnt faster. Along those lines anyway. Any thoughts on that?
Jan 15 2003 3:01AM
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roswel
Posts: 427 - Karma: 11
whoa!

that question about the sun blowing up is kind of ridiculous.

a: first the sun would not likely blow up in the traditional sense. the coronal mass would expand to the point where it would consume our planet, of which we would not see because we would have all been incinerated much earlier, then the star would collapse on itself. if it had enough mass it would turn into a black hole...blahblahblah...

b: let's assume for a minute that the sun could blow up. the earth would not exactly 'fall' out of orbit. besides the fact that we would all be dead before we would know that anything had really happened, if the suns gravity suddenly no longer existed we would simply travel at a tangent to our original orbit. we would not fall in but continue on a straight line outward.

c: just recently there was a study that observed that gravitons (and therefore gravity) travel at the speed of light. einstein theorized this and apparently yet again he has been proven right (for the moment). i can't remember the details of the study but if you live in canada and get the space channel there is a blurb about it on there once in awhile.


so ya......chew on that for a bit



some cougar at jozo's-
'what do i have to do to get your friend to come home with me'
Jan 15 2003 5:43AM
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lineskier10
Posts: 11339 - Karma: 796
yeah all that stuff is crazy and i dont think you could ever reach the end of space, because i think it is neverending, yeah and whenever you think about it it just gets mindboggling and you can even comprehend things like it
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Jan 15 2003 9:28AM
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andyrightcoast
Posts: 5220 - Karma: 18
it was on slashdot.org about the proving of the speed of gravity... I believe if you look at previous articles you'll find it
-Andy

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Jan 15 2003 10:27AM
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sim
Posts: 1399 - Karma: -6
It was a hypothetical question, and I realize that it wouldnt literally 'fall' out of orbit. But what your saying makes sense to me.
Jan 15 2003 12:56PM
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ECFS-Attitash
Posts: 2573 - Karma: 13
roswel actually knows what he's talking about

'You never hear Newt Gingrich say: Now why dont these hos just back up off me. I mean let a player play'
Jan 15 2003 7:35PM
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Hobojibber
Posts: 646 - Karma: 10
Those who doubt my opinion on quantum physics well im not the first, read some stuff from these scientists: Schroeberg and Hoizenberg

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Jan 15 2003 9:10PM
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gravteck
Posts: 2390 - Karma: 13
Ummm.. i don't know if you spelled them wrong dude, but I did google searches for both, but with no results.
Jan 15 2003 10:01PM
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1080enemy
Posts: 2171 - Karma: 13
soo much to talk about. yeah, it was recently proved(take that for what you may) that gravity travels at the same speed of light. meaning, that if the sun just vanished we would continue orbit for a few minutes, then go in a straight line, and be plunged into darkness at the same time.

and about the end of the universe, or whatever there are several theories. the big crunch (everything reverts to what it was in the beginningwhatever that was).or everything continues as it is, or it all just stops at some point.

and firing garbage into space is not currently economically fesable(sp).it costs a lot of money to put anything into space, plus it would be such an insignificant amount of trash anyways.

I don't remember what else was being discussed so I'll shut up now.
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Jan 16 2003 1:13AM
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ECFS-Attitash
Posts: 2573 - Karma: 13
Where is this proof?? I still dont see how a force can have a speed? Explain.

'You never hear Newt Gingrich say: Now why dont these hos just back up off me. I mean let a player play'
Jan 16 2003 8:38PM
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Caden
Posts: 3213 - Karma: 10
comment on the 'how many fingers do you have' statement WAY up there... what if i was a def blind and i didnt know what fingers were? hwo would i answer? or what if i had gigantisism hands or watever disease called and i couldnt see the bottom... and my fingers were swarmed with other parts of my hand... maybe id only have 4.


subtle part of the ott crew
Jan 16 2003 8:46PM
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gravteck
Posts: 2390 - Karma: 13
I'm not sure on the specifics, but the actual speed of gravity isn't referring to the effect it has, which is the force. But how fast that effect travels and, how long the interaction between two masses and their respective distances takes to take effect.
Jan 16 2003 9:07PM
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