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Ethics question

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yojimbo
Posts: 3631 - Karma: 27
this chick left her glass pipe with my buddy who left it at my house and i was driving around blazing and got pulled over and the cop searched my car and took the pipe and the trees and gave us a big ass fine. do i owe the bitch whose pipe it was money?
Dec 11 2005 7:04PM
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rippinbumpskier
Posts: 1628 - Karma: 23
no
Dec 11 2005 7:06PM
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powder_2_the_people
Posts: 1801 - Karma: 13
no
Dec 11 2005 7:07PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Why would you let them search your car??
Dec 11 2005 7:08PM
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yojimbo
Posts: 3631 - Karma: 27
cause you kind of have too. the only thing he cant search is my glovebox if its locked and my trunk.
Dec 11 2005 7:11PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
You really don't have to. There are rules about lawful searches. Ask if they have a warrant to search your belongings. If they do it without permission anything they find is inadmissable and they can't fine you, much less take your stuff.
Dec 11 2005 7:14PM
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sunvalleyskibum
Posts: 1223 - Karma: 11
but if u say no, then they just bring in a drug dog. if you consent at least theres a chance they wont find everything.

uhh ya you have to give her money. same as if you dropped it or something. it was your fault you got busted.
Dec 11 2005 7:17PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
It doesn't matter if they have a dog or not, they can't search a damn thing without a warrant. They can't detain you without cause, either, so they can't even go get a dog and come back. So unless you're intoxicated (in which case you can have a friend pick the car and its contents up), you're on your way.
Dec 11 2005 7:19PM
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timmi
Posts: 12874 - Karma: 3,460
no. you shouldnt have her pay for it. you should smack the bitch with the fine!
Dec 11 2005 7:21PM
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sunvalleyskibum
Posts: 1223 - Karma: 11
alot of times, they call in a k-9 unit to the scene, and if the dog smells something, then they have probable cause to search the car
Dec 11 2005 7:27PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
And how do they justify keeping you there in the meantime? You can't apply probable cause ex post facto, so they can't use that as a justification. Seriously, if they want to fuck around with borderline illegal searches I'd hold them accountable.
Dec 11 2005 7:29PM
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t-man152
Posts: 2896 - Karma: 14
well she kind of left it at your house and you kind of took it in your car to blaze.

so heres the answer:
ethically you should pay her...
but fuck ethics tell her to give you a blowjob and pay her for that
Dec 11 2005 7:46PM
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Wafflez
Posts: 388 - Karma: 10
yea, 4th or 5th amendment
Dec 11 2005 8:08PM
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yojimbo
Posts: 3631 - Karma: 27
the cop had reason to belive that we were using marijuana. a cop has training courses on that shit. a jury/ judge trusts a cop with training courses over a punk ass stoner. it dosent matter man!!! even if there is no justifiable reason for the cop to hold me there until theres a K-9 unit available, if I bring that shit up in court they're not gonna care! I'd rather just let him search it, and get a fine, then fuck around in court for 2 months.
Dec 11 2005 8:53PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
I was more on the "Sue the fuck out of the PD" line of thought, actually... it doesn't matter who they "trust", if he wrongfully reappropriated private property, undertook a search without a warrant or permission, etc, he's violated your rights. Some cops really need to figure out that they can't get away with this crap just because 95% of people have no idea how the law works. The police can't just do whatever they like...
Dec 11 2005 9:03PM
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lalalalaura
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 68
yes, you owe her a piece.
not necessarily a great one, but you really should hook her up.
Dec 11 2005 9:05PM
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InfernoHits
Posts: 4755 - Karma: 192
No
Dec 11 2005 9:14PM
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jib-unit00
Posts: 6704 - Karma: 18
o but they basically can, any reasonable doubt..and they are on you
Dec 11 2005 9:18PM
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eastAR5
Posts: 15084 - Karma: 730
just make her one outta tin can and be like my bad
Dec 11 2005 9:24PM
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STAUSS
Posts: 8232 - Karma: 3,311
no.
Dec 11 2005 9:27PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Do you know what the term "reasonable doubt" means? You're using it in completely the wrong context.

People play up the police and they think they have ultimate power. They're actually quite limited. Don't let them disobey the law, you have rights.
Dec 11 2005 9:35PM
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jib-unit00
Posts: 6704 - Karma: 18
yea. i do..and yes i know its a law term but basically if the cop has "reasonable doubt" using the suspicion and little evidence he has, he will do whatever he wants basically
Dec 11 2005 9:44PM
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fizzlefry
Posts: 4662 - Karma: 15
dude, they are cops. they do whatever the fuck they want.
Dec 11 2005 10:08PM
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wdbo.
Posts: 4935 - Karma: 173
i wish i was more knowledgable about the judicial system
Dec 11 2005 10:12PM
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jib-unit00
Posts: 6704 - Karma: 18
Actually you will find that most people don't play up the police enough
Dec 11 2005 10:12PM
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sunvalleyskibum
Posts: 1223 - Karma: 11
dont be naive man. just because cops arent constitutionally allowed to do something, doesnt mean they wont do it anyways. thats the way shit works.
Dec 11 2005 10:57PM
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Lord_Piot
Posts: 3727 - Karma: 13
fuck the police
Dec 11 2005 11:03PM
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spin
Posts: 1330 - Karma: 11
if you let the police do something then you cant fight it.

they dont need a warrent if you give them permission, if they have reasonable suspicion, or if they have testimony against you or if they see somethign with teh naked eye (ie. your nug and pipe sitting in the car.)

its not hard for them to get any of those things, jsut go off their fuckups instead of trying to do it for them
Dec 11 2005 11:54PM
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spin
Posts: 1330 - Karma: 11
and yes, you owe her a pipe
Dec 11 2005 11:55PM
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Jaskittin
Posts: 5606 - Karma: 195
JD is right on this one. Go to erowid.com and look at the police part. It doesn't matter what the jury thinks, you don't even have to have a jury. If the cop broke the law you are fine free. The thing I don't understand is how the fuck you got away with only a fine, unless your living in Canada, in which case you are extrememly lucky.
Dec 12 2005 12:07AM
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*erica*
Posts: 354 - Karma: 14
The point JD is making is that yes, the cops may do whatever they want. but. if you were to dispute the punishment you received in a court of law based on the fact that your rights were violated, you would WIN.
Dec 12 2005 12:10AM
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*erica*
Posts: 354 - Karma: 14
Gosh, don't you guys ever watch Law and Order???
Dec 12 2005 12:11AM
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eheath
Posts: 61602 - Karma: 123,028
Yeah, i dont like him but JD it totally right here, sue the fuck outa them
Dec 12 2005 12:12AM
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spin
Posts: 1330 - Karma: 11
actaully your wrong. you take them to court BECAUSE your had your rights violated. its the judges job to interpret the law and decide whether your rights were violated in such a manner as to outweigh the public right to health and safety or whatever the case may be.
Dec 12 2005 12:14AM
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*erica*
Posts: 354 - Karma: 14
So, pretty much my point exactly. With fines like that they aren't given out in court, they are given out on the spot. So, if you feel your rights were violated because the police did something unlawful in the process, you dispute the punishment in court based on that fact, if you can prove it, you WIN.
Dec 12 2005 12:19AM
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spin
Posts: 1330 - Karma: 11
right, but if your right to privacy has been violated, yet in the process the popo found a bomb strapped to your back, and your on a tour of the white house, proving to the judge that they performed an unreasonable search isnt gonna do shit. your right to privacy is insignificant in the face of the myraid rights of the public that you are violating
Dec 12 2005 12:25AM
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pulser9
Posts: 331 - Karma: 10
that bitch ows u the money to pay the fine, if she had kept ahold of her pipe u never wouldof had it in your car to smoke outa
Dec 12 2005 12:27AM
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$tezzyStu
Posts: 1139 - Karma: 11
don't give her a fucking thing, if anything the friend who gave the piece to you ownes her.
Dec 12 2005 12:58AM
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*erica*
Posts: 354 - Karma: 14
So basically in this case if you were to dispute the fine for posession, you would probably win. The cops didn't have a warrant to search your vehicle, so any evidence they found while illegally searching is not admissable in court. With no evidence to back the charges, the judge would likely throw out the fine, then tell you to stop being an idiot and don't smoke dope while driving, dope.

Under the influence though, now that's another story.
Dec 12 2005 1:06AM
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wrenegade
Posts: 6631 - Karma: 41
though if they ask/want to search your car and you say yes, then you can't do anything about it.
Dec 12 2005 1:10AM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
That's as may be, but it's a case of extreme defeasibility that really isn't applicable here. To give you another example, the classic standard for the US that I'm aware of was a guy about 15 years ago who got pulled over for having a broken tail light, and the cops found that his trunk was full off bags of Heroin. He arrested the guy, and the case was thrown out for the same reasons stated here. The dealer got off without so much as a fine (though he spent time in jail while awaiting trial). That might not seem like a good thing, considering a guy who clearly broke the law got to go free... but the alternative is a fascist police state. Either you catch lawbreakers by the rules that society has set out, or you don't catch them at all.

As long as you stay calm and don't badmouth the cop (doesn't look good in court) or anything, and maintain the whole time that you know your rights and do not condone the illegal search taking place, you're in good shape when they do something wrong. Policemen shouldn't get away with breaking the law they're supposed to enforce, that's corruption.

Unless the threadstarter is totally lying or leaving out vital info about what really happened.
Dec 12 2005 1:13AM
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cj
Posts: 4032 - Karma: 469
i didnt read all the bitching but the number one problem in this thread is Canadian Law vs American Law. Each dictates a different approach to search and seisure. the person who made this thread is from Maine and therefore canadian law would not apply to him JD_May. Sort out what your arguing about first, then argue.
Dec 12 2005 1:14AM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Yup, same with your house. ANY time a cop wants to come in and asks you if he can when he's on duty, Step out onto your front porch or what have you, close your front door behind you, and talk to them outside. Once you invite them in, you're fucked if they find anything.
Dec 12 2005 1:15AM
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cj
Posts: 4032 - Karma: 469
^eating own words.
Dec 12 2005 1:16AM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Works the same way for them; I just used an example of american legal precedent. There are differences in the way the whole thing is carried out that might alter the outcome, but what you should be doing in the situation we're talking about remains the same regardless.
Dec 12 2005 1:16AM
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cj
Posts: 4032 - Karma: 469
that was intended for me.
Dec 12 2005 1:16AM
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squeakywaffle
Posts: 1800 - Karma: 13
yeah you owe her a new pipe.
Dec 12 2005 5:02AM
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Jib_This
Posts: 8272 - Karma: 9
you don't owe anyone shit. They shoulda told the cops to eat it. It's not hardL: "I'm sorry, you have no warrant and no probably cause to search me or my vehicle. I object to any search."

Done, you win, case closed

The po-lice can eat shit.
Dec 12 2005 6:22AM
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