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November, 2024

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Religion vs creationism

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hartig
Posts: 8192 - Karma: 10
where did that wicked sweet thread go with all those facts and stuff? i used the search bar already, i just forgot the name of the thread..
Dec 7 2005 4:35PM
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B.O.B
Posts: 1205 - Karma: 10
I bimped it for ya
Dec 7 2005 4:50PM
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hartig
Posts: 8192 - Karma: 10
bump
Dec 7 2005 5:05PM
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$tezzyStu
Posts: 1139 - Karma: 11
idiot, creationism is the one that supports religion, the debate currently is ID( a revamped form of creationism) and evolution by natural selection( aka darwinism) the basic debate is that not only is ID wrong, they simply choose to not mention certian facts that totally disprove their theory, but it crosses the seperation of church-state, so basically its bullshit and shuold be killed
Dec 7 2005 5:10PM
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chip123
Posts: 930 - Karma: 8
same fucking thing
Dec 7 2005 5:15PM
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hartig
Posts: 8192 - Karma: 10
ahh fuck i messed that one up. you know what i meant by it tho, right?
Dec 7 2005 5:26PM
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B.O.B
Posts: 1205 - Karma: 10
yeah, being that i bumped it, lol, you must be tired
Dec 7 2005 5:31PM
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SteezePatrol
Posts: 10281 - Karma: 36
hahaha there are no facts to creationism
Dec 9 2005 1:47AM
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thecoyote
Posts: 1937 - Karma: 14
don't start this AGAIN
Dec 9 2005 2:08AM
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freestyler540
Posts: 13106 - Karma: 18,906
hahaha lets raise hell!
Dec 9 2005 7:46AM
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midwest_rep
Posts: 540 - Karma: 10
Hahaha, in my Biology class we just finished up this semester with evolution and population biology. Evolution is taught just like everyone other topic (as it should be), using facts and scientific evidence. Some dumbass asked during classtime (keep in mind this class is like 200 students) why he wasn't teaching the "otherside" of the earth's history. He then went on to ask why we aren't taught Intelligent Design alongside Darwinism. The Professor just stared at him and said "because this is an academic class based on scientific facts that can be proven"
Dec 9 2005 1:03PM
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skipimp_
Posts: 5700 - Karma: 113
if you feel it, dont deny it.
Dec 9 2005 10:41PM
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rodadeaco
Posts: 1054 - Karma: 10
Right, because the whole evolutionary theory can be proven. I guess scientists have figured out how to create life in a lab now?

I guess if you just omit the many facts disproving the evolution and big bang theories you could say that they're proven. Apparently thats what our schools do.
Dec 10 2005 12:57AM
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garrett.
Posts: 9304 - Karma: 3,670
if uve seen my steeze...IM A FUCKING MONKEY BITCHESSSS
Dec 10 2005 1:14AM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Evolution VS intelligent Desgin Redux.

https://www.newschoolers.com/ns3/web/forums/readthread.php?thread_id=163731&
Dec 10 2005 3:23AM
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hartig
Posts: 8192 - Karma: 10
yes thats just what ive been lookin for
Dec 12 2005 1:15PM
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redpointist
Posts: 982 - Karma: 11
Darwin's "theory" is on the brink of becoming a "law" at this point, and for good reason. The changes and adaptation of animals is documented, and when you apply this to the age of the earth (no, not 6000 years old, but millions, yes this has been proven as well, as much as creationists hate it) you get evolution.
Dec 12 2005 1:49PM
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Timmy_G
Posts: 3735 - Karma: 15
I am for neither religion nor creationism or whatever. I am for life. The fact that I am here
Dec 12 2005 2:05PM
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midwest_rep
Posts: 540 - Karma: 10
hehehehe. I work in a lab and we see the evolution of fruit flies on a yearly basis. They reproduce so fast and their generations are so sort, that its possible to watch them evolve. Through random mutations, certain traits become selected for and, if they prove to be better for survival, those traits are passed down to the next generations. We're talking about hundreds of thousands of flies going through thousands of generations. Eventually, we see (by we I mean the researchers, I ahvent been here long enough to witness it) see new traits and flies evolve through adapted traits and genetic flow of genes. I don't take part in it, but evolution is an integral part of genetic research.

Sorry you didn't know that, and sorry to be the one to break it to you. But to basically everyone in the scientific community, evolution is just a much a fact as addition or the freezing temperature of water. The only people that don't agree with that are religious people and people who, in respect, have no idea what they are talking about. So...yeah...sorry, but if evolution isn't real, then I've been living in a fantasy world for the last year working in my lab.
Dec 12 2005 2:08PM
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redpointist
Posts: 982 - Karma: 11
^ there ya go
Dec 12 2005 2:15PM
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popopopop
Posts: 328 - Karma: 11
it scares me that this kind of debate actually happens in america
Dec 12 2005 2:58PM
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rodadeaco
Posts: 1054 - Karma: 10
Yeah, everyone should blindly follow what is taught in schools. Challenging the current system of thought is definately wrong.
Dec 12 2005 3:31PM
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redpointist
Posts: 982 - Karma: 11
You'd have to be blind to not see that the evidence supporting evolution is so overbearing to anything against it. It makes perfect sense, and biologically, its obviously what whould happen over time.
Dec 12 2005 4:10PM
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back_woods
Posts: 1579 - Karma: 10
if your going to challenge the current system of thought, at least do it with something semi-intelligent...
Dec 12 2005 4:34PM
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RoCkTwiNTiPs1919
Posts: 617 - Karma: 8
And blindly following what religion "teaches" you is so much better right?
Dec 12 2005 6:40PM
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KRASHED
Posts: 7803 - Karma: 466
ok im not saying your an idiot nor anyone in a lab. But this science you do has only been studied for the past 40 years or so. How can you be so certain about the evolution of life in the past couple million years if we as humans have only studied in a millionth of a fraction of life on earth. Im an a religios man and I see how science does contradict religion on a daily basis and I have no problem with that. But the way I see it is that Religon without science in blind and science without religion is without guidance.
Dec 12 2005 6:45PM
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bmxican_89
Posts: 2617 - Karma: 23
there is a difference between evolution and Natural Selection.
Dec 12 2005 6:51PM
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midwest_rep
Posts: 540 - Karma: 10
hence why I threw in genetic drift and random gene flow into my paragraph. and since in a lab there isn't really any predators, it isn't really natural selection anyway. Just different genes expressing, although many times there is purposeful selection.

And to the guy above why asked how can we be so sure of evolution if we've only been studying it for a few years. Come on. Do I really need to delve into this? Most modern science has only been around for a hundred years, and people don't question the laws of thermodynamics or gravity. there has been plenty...PLENTY of observations and evidence to support evolution. Example: Homeobox genes. These genes are present in all living mammals, and they help direct the development of the embryo and beyond. It is possilble, through related species, to trace the gradual changing in homeobox over the millions of years as a species evolved and differentiated from another. For instance, homeobox genes that control development of the embryos of fish, lizards, birds, and mammals all are almost exactly the same. This is why all human, bird, lizard, and fish embryos look the same until they are a few weeks old. At this point, we see related genes, derived from eachother, but different in subtle ways, that differentiate the organism and help direct its development. Guess what? Even the most primitive of bacteria have a few of these homeobox genes too.

So that's just one example. I won't hate you or think you are dumb for not believing in evolution, there a lot of people that don't. When I was in high school I used to question it too, mostly because of all the media surrounding the subject. But, you know, once you work with it, it kind of becomes hard to ignore. Anyway, those genes are just some examples you can think about. If you're not convinced, that's fine and the way it is and you probably won't change your mind.
Dec 12 2005 7:11PM
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KRASHED
Posts: 7803 - Karma: 466
good points, and he wasnt a dick..theres an ns first
Dec 12 2005 7:25PM
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rodadeaco
Posts: 1054 - Karma: 10
No I don't think people should follow religion blindly. Thats how people end up in cults like Heavens Gate, and end up killing themselves.
People should know what they believe and why. I think the majority of people on NS who believe in macro-evolution, the big bang theory and such, believe because thats what their schools taught them. They've never really questioned what they were taught, and are following those theories blindly.
Dec 12 2005 8:35PM
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t-man152
Posts: 2896 - Karma: 14
what are you crazy of course their are facts that support it for one it says so in a book called the bible. and second uhhh, uhhh, my preast told me it was true while he was banging me in his office.

the reason I let him bang me is because he said it was the will of god.
Dec 12 2005 8:44PM
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popopopop
Posts: 328 - Karma: 11
challenging it with a basically disproved, thousand year old idea is fucking idiotic.
Dec 13 2005 11:47AM
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popopopop
Posts: 328 - Karma: 11
do people still think the sun orbits the earth?
Dec 13 2005 11:54AM
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almostaskier
Posts: 13809 - Karma: 93
it is so sad, too, that the ID people are losers, go about it entirely the wrong way, don't quite realize everyone agrees with Darwin to a certain extent, and that their notion is a mere travesty of what creationism entails.

another moment when christians can unite, like with the catholic churche, and go: thanbs a bunch, morons.

and to the fly dude: so they are changing and becoming a new species over time, right? well, thats been observed for a long time and correctly interpreted as natural selection and non random passing on of genes (darwin's finches, etc.).
But are they becoming a new animal entirely? are they changing genus? family? phyla? im guessing not.
we all agree with micro evolution, speciation, variation within species, because it is in fact scientific: observed and reproduced (your flies).
but macro evolution? goo to you via the zoo? not observed today or ever, therefore unscientific, and a faith as much as any other.

From National Geographic to Newsweek, everyone keeps reitterating that evolution is proven fact, naming the finches and other such experiments, but thats not the point now is it? That specific point has been proven, and is of course accepted by any self respecting creationist. natural selection happens, variation happens, ok, we're over it. Never do they even touch on what it is we have a beef with: that all animals are traceable all the way back to a single individual. That would require new information to be added, whereas everyone agres that natural slection is a loss of information.
Newsweek recently made the arror of assuming that if part of Darwins theory is right (natural selcetion, again) it means that every part of it is right. we beg to differ. thats it. no one has in recent memory moved past micro evolution when we all get it, except the new ID people. thanks, assholes. anyways.

oh and steezepatrol and tman_152.... um, do some research and pull your biased heads out of your butts. kisses.
Dec 13 2005 12:05PM
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Snowcase
Posts: 11456 - Karma: 634
If you hear it enough eventually you start to beleive it. I've heard both sides. My parents and family are church goers and my grandparents still beleive in god making the earth in 7 days but what I question is where did the rest of the solar system and space come from? This topic is so complex and there are so many views that its hard to pick one right from one wrong and to disprove ideas. I beleive in evolution becuase I am just like that. If god made everything then why make it so complex and if god is real then what is he/she? To me he is an idea that some people cannot let go of.
Dec 13 2005 12:06PM
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almostaskier
Posts: 13809 - Karma: 93
similarity doesn't always equal relationship.

they are almost exactly the same, but so is our DNA genome to that of chimpanzees. but surely you admit the change in our genes, though ever so slight, makes a whole lot of difference?
Dec 13 2005 12:08PM
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rodadeaco
Posts: 1054 - Karma: 10
If God is an omnipotent being who created the earth in 7 days, then why would it be so hard to fathom Him creating the whole solar sytem and space as well?


And regarding why he created something so complex. If you think in terms of an omnipotent being, then nothing is complex to Him. He understands it all perfectly.


I'm not really sure what you meant when you asked these questions, were you looking for the answers or trying to discredit Christianity with them?
Dec 13 2005 12:51PM
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hartig
Posts: 8192 - Karma: 10
yeah the reason i wanted to look for that thread was because my mom is still making me go to fucking ccd and church even though i told her that i dont beleive in religion. she says that she "failed" cause i dont beleive. its a load of bullshit
Dec 13 2005 1:15PM
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flatspinner
Posts: 2701 - Karma: 546
because the scientific community is always on top of things.

I bring up a huge point, but something relevant.


If we just die and rot in the ground, where is the point of living life?
Dec 13 2005 2:52PM
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midwest_rep
Posts: 540 - Karma: 10
To get high and watch reruns of Family Guy and Futurama? I've been studying this for year, and after many mathematical models and statistical analysis of the evidence, I've come up with the purpose of life. It's to get high and watch reruns of Family Guy and Futurama while drinking a microbrew. My whole life has built up to the moment when I first did this, and now that I've done it, there is no need to go on living.

Other researchers have stumbled upon this but never really knew what to do with the data. They found that inside the DNA base pairs that make up our DNA, there are organic molecules, similiar to nucleotides, called midiclorians. These are tiny and weren't noticed until the last few years with the advent of better uses of the e- microscopes. Anyway, researchers found these midiclorians in all living organisms, even in the RNA of simple prokaryotes.

These midiclorians are composed of nitrogen-based molecule with a base attachment "R" group. It is not yet sure what their function is, but when placed near either marijuana or Family Guy/Futurama, they are pressed into RNA synthesis and protein production right away. In unicellular organisms, enzymes are produced that drastically increase the metabolism of the organism and increase its efficiency at using lipids and polysaccharides. In multicellular, complex organims, these same enzymes not only increase efficiency, but also function to release endorphins from the brain and stimulate brain activity.

It's proportional as well. The closer an organism/cell gets to marijuana and/or Family Guy/Futurama, the more the midiclorians are stimulated. When marijuana is smoked while watching Family Guy/Futurama reruns, an explosion of endorphins, efficiency, and brain stimulation occurs. Cognitive ability goes up exponentially in most mammals with a developed nervous system. It has also recently been found, as in the last few months, that drinking a fine, microbrew beer while partaking in this activity greatly increases the stimulation of the midiclorians and their protein synthesis. This was only recently published in the New England Journal of Medicine this last year.

In a sense, this changes the whole complexity of our understanding of life on Earth. Researchers are now working on models that predict all life, from the earliest prokaryote anaerobic cells to human beings all are genetically directed, by their DNA and the midiclorians found therein, to smoke marijuana while watching Family Guy/Futurama reruns.

There, I gave you the meaning and purpose of life.
Dec 13 2005 4:23PM
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GotamaBCshredder
Posts: 5062 - Karma: 424
yay, so did you craete life? where did those come from? All of your arguments suck, we already did this once.
Dec 13 2005 4:27PM
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GotamaBCshredder
Posts: 5062 - Karma: 424
First the genetics came from somewhere
Second a hundred year? That is nothing, the world has been around for a long time.
Third, I don't care if they all have those genes, evolution exists as adaptation which they were created to have, but I really want to hear how nothing explode and voila you got WORLD and animals, and people and emotions a balanced food chain, intellectualism.....morals?
Dec 13 2005 4:31PM
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GotamaBCshredder
Posts: 5062 - Karma: 424
or a thousand year logic that has never been disproved? Can you show some evidence of that? Because that would just be peachy,
Dec 13 2005 4:33PM
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midwest_rep
Posts: 540 - Karma: 10
Do I have to go through this again? Read my above little essay on midiclorians and then come talk to me. It's based on chemical reactions, although what causes the midiclorians to start protein synthesis when they get close to weed and/or Family Guy/Futurama is still debatable.
Dec 13 2005 5:45PM
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bmxican_89
Posts: 2617 - Karma: 23
if you would do research you would realize that in the bible it says god created the sun moon stars and all other heavenly bodies.
Dec 13 2005 5:55PM
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almostaskier
Posts: 13809 - Karma: 93
only in presence of weed and or family guy/futurama?

or do you mean in the presence of television and drugs of different kinds?

seems to me that whole shpeel was pulled out of your ass.
Dec 13 2005 6:01PM
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rodadeaco
Posts: 1054 - Karma: 10
Yes, the whole things does sound pulled out of your ass.

How does the release of endorphins from the brain and stimulated brain activity even remotely relate to the meaning of life? Yes, events during our daily course will release various chemicals in our bodies that make us feel certain ways. That is how the body functions. Yet it does not give our lifes purpose or meaning.


Alternately, you are implying that life is just chemical reactions and thats it, with no meaning. The meaning of life is as simple as smoking weed while watching Family Guy because there really is no meaning of life? Am I right in assuming this, please explain?
Dec 13 2005 6:10PM
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d-mold
Posts: 693 - Karma: 10
This thread is funny. Funny and sad at the same time.
Dec 13 2005 6:12PM
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midwest_rep
Posts: 540 - Karma: 10
Yes, you are close. In a way I am implying that the meaning of life is to smoke weed and watch Family Guy AND Futurama. But beyond that, the purpose of life is to smoke weed and watch Futurama/Family Guy. I don't mean in some existential, Sartre manner, I mean in a very real and chemical sense. All living things are driven to do this, or should I say all the parts that make up living things go through a series of chemical reactions that drive the organism they make up to do this.

Life is basically a composition of polymers that respond to stimuli by interacting with other polymers. Midiclorians are polymers.

Once you've smoked enough weed and watched enough Family Guy/Futurama reruns, so many midiclorians become active in your body that you become a Jedi. Then the purpose of YOUR life, I'm being subjective here, is to defeat the Dark Side of the Force. That usually involves killing evil emperors and whatnot, I'm not really sure but there is research going on right now as to what drives a Jedi to need to eradicate the Dark Side of the Force. I shouldn't really elaborate on this since I'm not an expert on this side of organic chemistry. But I should be getting close to becoming a Jedi by now.
Dec 13 2005 6:29PM
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rodadeaco
Posts: 1054 - Karma: 10
I think you may have "jedi" and "vegetable" mixed up.

Basically Jedi's are obsessed with power. That why they insist of destroying the balance between good and evil (eradicating the Dark Side). The Dark Side is attempting the same thing, but because they're scary looking, people deem them as evil.

But good luck with turning into a Jedi. For best results though, you should really be smoking weed and watching Family Guy and Futurama right now and NOT posting on NS.

Have a good day.
Dec 13 2005 6:49PM
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GotamaBCshredder
Posts: 5062 - Karma: 424
so someone gunna put down some concrete evidence or what?
Dec 13 2005 7:08PM
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