Canadian Gov't - Up in flames?

He was way too comfortable last time. He pretty much stuck by Harper's side in Ottawa, and wherever else and did pretty much Zero campaigning in his riding. Plus he isn't neccessarily the most popular guy so...It will be interesting this time round, I can't wait.

Wow, a lot of people don't know what the hell their talking about.....
Last nite, there was a vote of non confidence in which the minority liberal government fell. Paul Martin will now disolve government and ask the governor general for a federal election probably on jan 23. This isn't because Paul Martin fucked up or anything, it is simply standard governmental procedure when there is a minority government. It is very rare that a coalition can last more than a few months, as was shown between the liberals and the NDP. So now we'll go through it all again. My prediction is that we will have a higher number of liberal seats, but still retain a minority government.

I don't usualy don't agree with you Veteran but I agree with you on this.

The liberals must wake up and give what the overall Canadian population need. They do a better job than any other partie. And for that, I will vote for the liberals.

The scandal is the main argument to bring down the government for all the Canadian parties. They don't want us to see what the liberal did right.

I also have a funny feeling that Harper craves power and intends to use it at his will, like Bush. An that we should be afraid of.

Well, listen to the insults that the tories will give to the liberals for the next month or two. Based on their maturaty, cast your votes Canadians.

And ignorent American fucks, if you want to talk shit or don't know shit, dont post.

Thats my birthday, I'll be able to vote for the first time on my birthday. Cool I guess.

^How was that an agreement with anything Veteran said?

Anyway, as much as maturity and professionality should perhaps come into how one votes, I wouldn't suggest putting all of the weight on it as you seem to. I'd rather vote for the party I think will do the best job of running the country.

which is who? in ur opinion?

The liberals. Regardless of a scandal that I think was blown way out of proportion, they're the only party with a leader who isn't completely batshit insane, and a platform I don't think is patently idiotic or pure evil.

Well i wouldnt say jack layton is batshit insane, but the NDP will never win power, so yeah i agree with you. I will never support Steven Hitler....sry Harper

Did you ever see that old Candid Camera episode with the fish tank? Well let me reminisce and describe it:

So what it was was this fish tank, however there were no fish in it. This was unbeknown to the people observing it. Instead they had a sign on it that said "Invisible Fish." Well some people, in fact a lot - let's call it a small majority, would look just that hard and would actually be able to see them...

It is actually almost astounding to me that the Liberals were able to do as much wrong as they did, without ever actually really doing anything.

Maybe it is time to have a LEADER that is a little on the "crazy" side, but at least then we might have a leader. Unfortunately, Harper being that evil devil man that he is... will lead us right to hell...?

While it may be interesting for you over in Van, I think the election in general will not. I'm pretty sure I know who will win, yet again, and it is almost disturbing. Oh well, I guess getting slapped around sometimes is what us Canadians do best. Check out the sign on HIGHWAY #2 between Calgary and Red Deer next time you are going through that part.

so what did they do wrong? for a government to stay in power, they either have to do things that other partys agree on - then they're not really doing their own thing because they're appeasing everyone. or they have to get a majority government. minority governments can work.

the conservatives will never get a majority government in this country for a long, long time.. enjoy complaining about government, you're going to get used to it. Even if the conservatives get a minority government, they will try to pass some crazy bill or budget, it will get handed back to them by the liberals and ndp and probably bloc (the bloc always wins when government gets into these situations, that's why they like them).. and that would put us in the same non-confidence situation that we're in now. Then a re-election will come.. and voters will come back to the liberal party again.

Ummmm... thanks. I wasn't aware of how our government works.

I'm not going to answer your question because it kind of seems like it would be to no avail if it isnt, at least to some extent and on a few occasions, somewhat obvious to you. Instead I implore you to tell me what the have done right. Like something really good that a large percentage of the population agreed on. Hell, just give me something that they did period, that's hard enough.

It's somewhat sad to me that you are that proud that your homeboys are going to stay in power that long. It appears to me to be that kind of thinking that basically shows a party, in this case the Libs, could do whatever they want and you would still be behind them. Sounds a little like what someone from... oh even better , right from the ol capital itself. Haha. I didn't have to go to the profile to know the province though.

if the other parties got their shit together, maybe people would vote for them more. No party is perfect, but the conservatives are far from it. The NDP is a party that is needed to keep the others in line socially, since both parties are pretty much just left and right of centre.

also, vote conservative if you dont like blacks, gays, inexpensive health care, or any other generally good idea.

Yeah, well done.

substitute "poor people" for blacks. There aren't enough blacks in this country for the conservatives (or, probably, the liberals for that matter) to give a shit about them one way or another.

you can't fix what's not broken, why hand the keys over to someone who would make DRASTIC changes to the way that we live?? don't talk about the way that they're spending.. look up balanced budgets and debpt payment in canadian politics and you'll see paul martin's picture. What exactly about our current way of living is unacceptable??

i'm stretching with the following.. but it just came to me after reading the conservative website which says that canada's shortage of tradespersons is a result of liberal inactivity. I didn't realize that having higher education easily available was a real flaw.

Well let me make an analogy:

So you have a car. It runs and it gets you from place to place. However, sometimes it stalls or lugs, and it also quzzles gas and uses oil like crazy. Now someone, perhaps a friend of yours that is a mechanic, has a pretty good idea on how to fix it and will do it for you and all you have to do is drive to his garage. You wouldnt do it?

Now you might say, what if the mechanic fucks up and the car gets even worse? Yeah maybe, but then you wait a bit and most likely (in this case) you will get another car again soon after, which (again in this case) costs you virtually nothing. Do you get the point?

Yes, obviously Canada is a great country, but it is a really poor attitude when you sit there and say "It's good enough" when it could be lots better still. Maybe you fail to see that it could be lots better, but then you might be kidding yourself on just how good our country is.

And yes, that was a stretch. In fact, by saying that, you may actually have strengthend the opposing point. We ARE short on skilled workers. What we are not short on is Art, History and Sociology majors etc. The problem I sometimes find, and it seems even worse in the states, is how much we stress on people having to go to Universities and then looking down on those that go to Tech colleges to become plumbers or whatnot. Yet they are the ones that are going to be well paid after. So really, who is in some of these cases, "smarter."

Well, anyway, like I already said, there isn't really much point to all this, because it seems that there are certain people, mainly concentrated in one province, that decided who to vote for on Jan 23, at least 12 yrs ago. Even further so, it seems its has also been decided for maybe 15 years from now.

if ur in ontario vote paul summerville ndp just cause hes my dads friend but any other province, vote conservative. the liberals by their votes like when they promised the water front for toronto to be redone. never happened. in 1993 our debt was was 408 billion now its $510 billion... liberals blow

Well Sim you must understand that the mecanic has been doing a great job on your car for 15 years. It happends that the one time that another co-worker fucked up. Will you blame the boss, or the shop? You will blame the person at fault.
That is exacly what has happened with the liberal government. Paul Martin did not fuck up, it was Cretien's right hand that was part of the scandal. Martin should have known what was going on, but he didn't.No one else was aware of the scandal.
Anyway, have you listen to what Harper answered when a person asked: "do you love Canada?" he never said that he loved it, he only talked about living in it.

james b, or bebt is not 510billion, i love how pople jsut come up with numbers.

its good that renyolds is not running in the sunshine coast but the richies in whistler will still get a conservative member as they want to get coperate taxes down. i don;t get to vote there this time, but i know i iwll not be voting conservative. we may need change but socially regressing is not the way to do it.

sim, your analogy sucks, i will leave that at that....

liberal minority will come again, conservatives will lose seats, and ndp will gain them. all the mudslinging that harper is doing is garbage. he yells corruption but do we all forget that PM was exonerated in the sponsorship scandle? do we forget that the liberals have 8 straigt surpluses, have brought in positive social change (gay marrige, non-persecution for pot).

The heatlh care system is not great but that can be blamed as much on those who run the hosiptals as the government (same way as it was not harris who destroyed the education system in ontario by cutting funds, it was the ones who allocated the funds and gave themselves a raise).

the liberals have also had positive change for the environment (though not near as much as required), the conservatives don;t even know what climate change is. they are in bed with big business and look to keep their friends rich while opening up our health care system so the poor won;t be able to access doctors as they are all getting paid more by the private industry.

you think corruption will stop by brining in the conservatives? Not a chance, the liberals do still have integrity, it was injured by the actions of a few (not politicians mind you), and this election campaign will once show the conservatives for who tehy are: a bunch of negativeist who mask their true goal of making the rich richer while opressing the minorities.

You really do understand how our politics work.

my dad gets assraped in taxes. nearly 50% of his income gets taken away. we do alright, but makes it really difficult to break into the upper class echelon for the middle upper class. he is conservative.

Well put it this way, either your dad gets half his income taken away through taxes under the liberal government, or he spends that half of his income on private healthcare, dental care, insurance, all of which become privatized under the conservatives, and prices go through the roof because now, companies can charge w/e the hell they want for these essential services because there is no cheap alternative

This thread is awesome.

The NDP will gain seats in BC, maybe up to 5 because of their recent success in the provincial elections.

The liberals will maintain a minority government because as its been said, a lot of people want anything but conservative.

Unfortunatly, in a close riding, in my opinion a vote for green or the NDP will be a vote for the conservatives as a lot of voters for those parties would have voted liberal otherwise.

Also, Jack Layton kept saying before that he would not bring down the government etc etc, then he switched and said he would. And I don't even think that the Gomery is finished. Isn't it done Feb 1?

Anyways I will vote liberal come Jan 23 but my riding is already won by Stephen Owen. I think he won 27,000 to 10,000 last time, so I dont think the Conservative candidate can win over more than 50% of the vote.

your right it is now 570 billion, i must have mistankly put a instead of a 7.. and no i didnt come up with the numbers you can find out our debt online....

http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/govt03a.htm

the debt is actually 523 billion as of last year, but if you look at the number,s it has gone down 40 billion since 2000. I'd say cutting the debt by 7% is pretty good

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2079rank.html
570 billion as of 2004...

they probably calculated debt differently, but I think I will trust the canadian statistics organization to come up with the numbers better than an american organization.

Hey, thanks for the input. Maybe you just don't have a retort, or you actually think that your car has been running good all along? Oops, I'm going back to my analogy again. Sorry.

I hear all this talk about social programs and whatnot - which are certainly good. Yet, the problem is, if the country doesnt have money, then how are the social programs going to get funded and be sustainable. Look at the last little idea of the Libs. No offence here to our native people, this is a problem with really deep roots, but do you honestly think that throwing em 5 billion is going to help. For fucking once, think long term. Think sustainable. It might help for a while, but maybe the best thing to do is not keep throwing money at them and let them become an actual part of our society. Let them fend for themselves for once. Sure it sounds mean, but it has the possibility of solving a long-standing problem for good. In another analogy (God help us): Let's say you have a cow, and the cow is sick or it is among many sick cows, it's fate is enevitable. Now would you shoot it? I really would like to hear your answer to that. Same sorta thing. Do you sometimes do what is harder to do to fix a problem, or do you do what makes you feel better inside so you can go around saying the next day, that you are more socially responsible and liberal minded and, thus, more sophisticated and lastly, smarter. Now hate my analogy if you want, but maybe just think about it.

So does that have to do with politics? I guess that is for you to figure out. As already said, look at Germany for example. Not to say that it isnt a great country, but as some, perhaps lots, would tell you, "Germany is sick." Socialism has to be kept in balance with sustainable economics. (Come on, it was a much bigger deal for the government to figure out if two dudes should be getting married, rather than finding some solution to the BSE crisis. Oh but why help some stupid farmers, serves them right for being farmers. Well, when the price of you food doubles then it might seem more important.) Thus, the reason I am yet again calling for change. Now it may sound hypocritical, because in previous posts I have said, vote for anyone but Lib, and the other options all being basically more social than the Libs themselves. Well, one, I want change no matter what direction, and I am at least somewhat open to see what another party could bring to the table. I find it somewhat unplausable that they could do too much worse (because they might at least try to make decisions), and plus at this point I trust them more. Which leads me to two, the Libs no longer have integrity. Although, you seem to think the opposite is true... for whatever reason (maybe its that ever so forward thinking that you have,) I would beg to differ. I don't know, but it would seem to me that the man responsible for finances, yet somehow has people under him literally stealing money would seem to me to, a) either have a lack of integrity, or b) has no right to be in that postion (finance minister) to begin with as he apparently doesnt know what is going on, and thus, also pointing to a certain lack of integrity. But that's just me.

Yeah, they are doing a great job with the environmental stuff. The ratified Kyoto... While, I'm all for environmental protection, look at the workings of that stupid thing. I won't go into it, but again it brings me to the word sustainable.

One more thing: Since when is it bad to encourage business, even big ones? So creating jobs is a bad idea? Competition for products and services is too? Mind you I will agree that some of these business/businessman have to be monitored and held accountable for any tomfoolery or what have you.

Badfish, this is for you. First of all, touche, that reply actually made me laugh because it was a pretty good burn. However, at the same time, as already stated, that thinking is to me, really sad. I've already said why, while that reply was funny, it leads me to believe that you really have no defence for your unconditional Liberal love. Maybe you don't feel you need to defend it or maybe you can't. Either way, its probably not a good thing.

So, take it or leave it, and for a closing paragraph, see yet again, the last paragraph of my previous post.

i hate government

Well I'll say a bit more than your analogy sucks.
It's a decent analogy....it's just wrong...
Canadians have one of the highest standards and quality of lifwe in the world. 4 of our cities are in the top ten most desirable global cities, and our canadians are respected world over. So how is this cow sick? What has the liberal government done in the past 11 years that has harmed canada. The sponsorship scandal was stupid, but apart from that minor blunder, i don't see canadians lives being all that adversly affected by liberal legislation.
And your little tirade about farmers and BSE? The government demanded comprehensive testing on all cattle before they tried to open the borders again to beef exports...just because the americans wouldn't reopen the border for reasons all too obvious, isnt the government's fault. As with the softwood lumber crisis in BC, the U.S. are just using an event such as the discovery of BSE in a single albertan cow to protect their own domestic industry and provide aide to american beef producers.
And two dudes marrying each other? You must know that the gay marriage debate is shaking the very foundations of the entire christian church...a fixture much larger and more powerful than any country's elected government, so yeah, i think it should get a bit of floor time in the house of commons.
Socialism is a proven failure when taken too far left, but capitalism, when fueled by profit alone, destroys a country far mor effectively than social programs and taxes. So I say the liberals have done a great job thus far...my life is awesome, and my parents are both on teacher's salaries.

well your parents are on teachers sallaries so that would explain your complete bias to liberals. What have the liberals done to harm Canada in the past 11 years. To much stuff to count, I am not sure if you are from Ontario but if you have ever heard of Brian Malrooney and what he has done to Toronto you would probably know a great lot of what the liberals have screwed up in Canada in the last 11 years. And don't you get sick of knowing because of the liberals all of our money goes to health care, what about the fucking roads. There pitiful and it takes the guys years to construct them. And this is the main thing that makes me sick with these great liberals. Doctors come into Canada from other countries and apply to become doctors who are supposbely surtified in their country so guess what because they tell our government they are sertified. Then we cant retest them with our Canadian standards because we might offend them. (that is what your liberals are like). So now we have shit health care that is so far behind most countries, we have shit doctors who are not even qualified to be doing this tests on us. Right now I can bring my dog to the vets or a horse to the vets and get better surgery and treatment on my pet or animal than on my ownself because our healthcare is so bad. I would love to go more into how the liberals stand for nothing but winning votes and elections but I don't have time right now. Maybe later I can go into greater detail for you on how the liberals have really fucked us.

Where do u live? I'm in calgary, and whenever i get hurt doing anything I just go to the foothills hospital, and am treated promptly, and very well. I have never had a bad experience in a canadian hospital.
and ur saying that by having a conservative government...the condition of the roads will improve?

1. brian mulroney was a conservative. and yes, he did fuck up.

2. no, i like health care, I would probably be dead if I didn't live in a country that had universal healthcare.

3. I don't know if you drive or even live in Canada. But considering how much having winters like we do fucks with the roads, the yare in excellent shape. If the liberals pissed away billions repairing roads every 2 years, conservatives would com[plain about that. what do you want?

4. certified is spelt with a C, you spelt it wrong twice.

Amen

Stephen Harper isn't evil, how could you be mad at this face?

[IMG]http://www.cbc.ca/arts/images/pics/stephen_harper_village_peop[1].jpeg[/IMG]

yeeeeeeeeeehhhhaaaaawww!!!!

damn I suck

sorry i meant david peterson i was in quite a rush as I was doing work, and was in a rush. sorry my spelling was shit, but peterson spent tons of money on programs and social services when ontarios economy was booming and instead of building up surpluses he was spending it on more and more social programs that they couldnt afford in the long run.

Im afraid i don't know enough about david peterson to contest this issue...thus im out

Hey, i'm on a tight schedule here.. not too much time to reply when I only have maybe 2 hours in my hotel room but, anyways..

I have to call you out on this one. You said it yourself "If the country doesn't have money, then how are the social programs going to get funded and be sustainable"
Yet, it was 2 weeks ago that Mr. Harper said he would scrap the GST.... saying that is like the pope telling God he thinks the church could do without the cross... it's served its purpose, people can remember its image and he can do the hand wavey thing to help jog their memory.

And the Native thing I think you got totally wrong, but your right something needs to change.. it's more of the rest of canada, though.. once upon a time, they were thinking long term. in fact, i believe it's exaclty how you described it: "Let them become an actual part of our society". They can get smart jobs, and work along with the rest of us. since the jobs aren't located on the reserves, they would want to move to where the jobs are.. then we can respect and live with them. I can't speak for them, but I don't even think some of them want to become part of our society, maybe. But, someone was thinking long term at some point - they get paid to go to school all through high school (a great incentive to stay in school), and higher education doesn't cost them much (or any) either. All the chances in the world to get higher than a lot of us, but most will stop or not even finish high school. there are some obvious success stories, but think of a place like Winnipeg - how eager do you think they are to join a "society" which hates them.

and on a final note: i voted green in the last federal election for the simple fact that I think environment should come first these days - ie: it's the only new real issue that deserves more attention.. with the new election rules, every vote is actually beneficial to a party. I voted conservative in my provincial (NS) election. but, federally the conservatives would turn their back on Kyoto - chretien promised to meet and exceed most standards faster than any other country in the world, we can't drag our feet and just turn our backs on this one and if we try we might do it. It's not that I'm so pro-liberal, rather i'm anti-conservative federally at this point.

Ok so lets go again:

Since I didn't reply to you the first time:
Freestyler540, first off, no I must not understand that the mechanic has been doing a good job for 15 years. One, because he hasn't, and two, because your furthering of my analogy only barely works but I'll go with it.. Furthermore, yes while that person would be at fault, so would the company/business be. They hired that person and are thus, to a point, responsible. Something I don't necessarily agree with, but you can thank a socialist ideology for that.

Now Paul Martin is, agreeably lots better and smarter than his predecessor. He is a multi-millionare is he not? Which leads me no other choice than to believe he at least knew what was going on. Perhaps he just turned his head to it? I am wondering how you so surely know that he had nothing to do with it. Did you talk to him? Ok, let's say for the moment he actually didn't know what was going on, then like you said, he really should have. So what now, he just really didn't know his own job well enough? Furthermore, I see Martin as too much of an appeaser and a man of having hidden agendas, he is, afterall one of these "dreaded" businessmen that you all find so evil, thus, I must also see him as that.

Yeah, Harper might not love Canada, because he wants to see change so that he can yet again love it. Don't really see your arguement there.


Now, skierbum, more or less the same thing as I wrote just above here. Also, since you didnt get it, it seems, I'll reiterate. Canada is a great country, but why not make it better when it is quite clear it is possible. Well maybe to you it isn't. Also, if you want facts, our UN rating has gone down. Check it. Also, try to remember that we are not as perfect as you might like to think. While Canadians might not be hated like our neighbours to the south sometimes find they are, we are not necessarily respected either. Especially true when looking at global policy. We could sometimes be called a laughing stock. I mean even the Australians didnt buy those old English subs... That wasnt a waste of money...for a example. Furthermore, I think a large definition of a high standard of living, is Freedom. Something which is slowly being taken away from us, which is kind of weird considering socialist ideals trys to make everyone the equally "free", but instead often has the reverse effects. Think about it a bit.

BSE:
Yup, demanded testing huh? What a fuckin solution that was. Seeing as how you have probably lived in a city all your life, I can't really blame you for not understanding why that doesnt work, but let me just say, that was a fucking dumb plan. It just made it harder to get anything done with beef. Fuck the U.S anyway on that. Look for new markets. Look for a self-sustaining solution that doesnt depend on the States. Or at least play a little hardball with them. Obviously we aren't always in a good position to do that with them, but I gaurantee more could have been done than sitting there and being "Mr. Niceguy"- oh our cows are all getting tested now, don't you worry, it'll soon be safe. Cover the shit up if you have to- the States did, for a disease that rarely exists. Because like you said, it was political, so obviously that isn't going to work [trying to make sure it is safe]. Then going on to other less important issues, like said earlier, isn't going to help either. And don't even try telling me that trying to pass a Same-sex marriage bill is more important than food. Farming is the reason behind civilization. Learn it. Now, I also don't want to turn this thread into this kind of debate, but I'm all for the same rights for Homosexuals, but why can't it be under a different definition. Leave the traditional marriage definition as is, and give them the same rights. Please, more or less, both groups and make both give a little, get a little. The way I read it, this is what the Conservatives are trying to do, so maybe we have to leave the "evil" and "hate minorities" stuff out in this regard.

As one last question, when has a Capitalist society ever gone to complete shit or how many? What about Socialist...? Now your right about if a society had no government intervention it would go to hell due to human greed. However, too little intervention has (to my knowledge, correct me if I'm wrong) never happened, but too much... Thus, I have faith that the conservatives wouldnt be the first and arent so "evil" that society would fall apart. However, as already said, when compared to some European countries, being too much on the side of socialism can have consequences. You need checks and balances, and its definetly time for that in our country. Not too mention the fact that no government should be in power too long as they get lazy and, well, corrupt because they are too comfortable. Seems like something that happened with the Libs after the first term... Anyway, you live in Calgary, so... I don't really think that your vote, if you are able to do so, will do too much. My turn to laugh - Bigfish you bastard you.

A quick note on Healtcare, Martin actually made cuts on that during his position as Finance Minister . Also, while ours might be good because it's universal, it also has problems. There is lots of operations that people have to go to the States for to find Doctors that can do them. I know a lady with MS for example that this applies to. However, this is also another whole different big debate topic so I'll leave it alone.

Now Bigfish, good, scrape that G.S.T bullshit. We don't need it, we have enough taxes. Also, when I mean that a country needs money, I don't just mean the government. Sorry I wasnt clear, but I actually am talking more about the people or the society in general, and yes this includes the government. I am quite sure that the government would have enough tax money without G.S.T anyway. Just be more responsible with it... See above few paragraphs. Also, lets have some more faith in ourselves, and believe that if that money stays in our pockets instead, we can do something useful with it. If not, maybe an idea would be that it is basically mandatory to donate a certain amount of money, but you get to decide where. I don't know, just a quick thought. Now, that tangent aside, I do not believe that that 5 bil was a good idea or a good way to spend it. See above about responsibility. Explaination:

As also said before, sometimes doing what does not necessarily seem right at the time, has better long term effects. This is what I'm saying with the Natives. Let them fend for themselves (with ever so moderate incentives.) If they don't want to be part of our society, then screw em, just like anyone. I don't hate THEM and I don't really understand why you feel the rest of Canada does. What I do hate, and what other Canadians hate is having to keep paying for them. It would do soooo much better to just treat them like regular citizens. Yes we took there land, yes it is unfair. It happened, its time to move on. Let them keep the reserves and the land so that they can do what they want with it, but let's not keep giving them money so that they can do what they want with that, because it hasnt worked yet. "Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he'll eat for ever." Now you should know where this is from, because I do and I'm not religious, however, it undoubtably makes sense. Yes, they do have all the chances in the world to get higher than us, but what is the motivation if we keep bailing em out. Us giving them money is what is keeping them in poverty, not the reverse. Unfortunately, that way they never learn how to be responsible with it. (I have a 'not close' friend, native, and she spends most of her time riding snowmobiles and partying, as far as I know, no job. So what's the motivation.) Like I said, let them fend for themselves. Don't tell me I have no heart either and am just some uncaring redneck. Why do you think I used that cow analogy? (Which someone, can't remember who, interpreted wrong, but that's at least partly my fault.) I actually want to see these people get somewhere and see a problem solved for everyone. So you can keep telling me I'm totally wrong, but then tell me what's totally right, or at least do better than, "something has got to change..." and...

I hope the Conservatives turn their back on that Kyoto shit. Look into that accord, really. Canada is an oil rich and producing nation, and yes, especially Alberta, where incidentally, a lot of the whole countries money is coming from. First of all that accord does hardly shit for actual pollution control, as said, look into it - I can't remember either, but I do remember it being, best said, nothing other than a big load of shit. Secondly, it will definetly hurt our economy. As said before (yet again), we need to keep things sustainable. As in, not spend tonnes of money now to reach (what for Canada) are essentially unrealistic targets that will instead deter any new projects (ie Oilsands) or companies, and thus further a lose of money. So let's say in 10 years the levels are down a bit, but our economy is shit. What happenes when we want to put the levels down more? How are we going to be able to afford that? Sustainability, checks and balances, etc. Control the pollution with money that we have so everyone wins. Don't follow some guidelines set out by some other countries that have it way easier to reach and follow them. Did you happen to read any article in the last little while that states we are already off track on making those targets? This early in the game too huh. Hmmm. Could it be that ratifying it was done just to look good, although it was pretty much improbable that those goals could actually be reached. World appeasement? National appeasement? One thing the Libs were/are good at.

Once again, a waste of my time I guess. Refer to the last paragraph of my previous post about refering to my previous post. Oh, but one thing I have forgotten to mention, every national election, won by Ontario, causes Alberta to become more like Quebec. Would that be a bad thing...? Maybe for the rest of Canada...

Anyway, I'm going to Vienna for a few days so happy posting. Keep it alive. Its better than always seeing US political threads.

I didn't read the whole thing since it's exam time and I am pretty busy, but, look at Cuba. If you get past all of the propaganda the US has thrown out there about Cuba, you would realize that they are fats becoming a progressive country. They have one of the best healthcare systems in the world, and are developing one of the best infrastructures. Even without the help or trading from the "greatest country in the world", Cuba is managing, every year, to improve. Sure, if you are going to open a business, the government owns 50%, but then why have all these major companies from Europe gone into Cuba and done VERY well; especially the hotel chains.

please don't spit american propaganda and stereotypes back at me. If you are going to argue that Cuba is not a socialist success story, back it up well.

Many of the Scandanavian countries ,who's healthcare you healthcare and standard of living you rave about, are also socialist countries.

Cuba huh? Yeah you know your country is doing good when you are willing to trust a small rubber boat to cross ocean to get away from it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Cuba

I'm tired of writing lots.

No it is not the worst country ever, and it works to a point...

And that last sentence of yours? Well I think you are saying that the Healthcare system there is really good. Well, it depends what you make of this.

http://www.aims.ca/healthcare.asp?typeID=3&id=334


I'm sort of tired of responding. I'm taking the easy way out.

Stupid train is all sold out of tickets.

Why? Because you bought all the seats. dummie.

In my opinion, the liberals will continue to win elections until the other parties smarten up. STOP SLINGING SHIT!!!! fuck! If the conservatives could just learn that rather than trash talking and personally insulting the liberals that they should just present their platform as a viable alternative they would WIN! I would vote for them!

For example, Kim Campbell vs Jean Cretien at the beginning of his career. Kim said something along the lines of: would you actually vote for someone who can't speak properly? Jean responded: Is that how you treat everyone with a disability? As unfit? He tore her apart, she recieved a pitiful amount of votes in the election and was forced out of politics. It's just not canadian to be rude and insultive and canadians won't vote for a party that bases their campaign on that.

I voted NDP last election to kick the libs in the nuts, but couldn't bring myself to vote conservative because I was too afraid they'd actually win.

This time I'm voting liberal. Maybe the other parties will figure it out. There's a reason why the liberals ALWAYS WIN. They don't trash the other parties. They just ask: "what is your platform" And the other parties know that theirs is shit and try to dance around it. Canadians see right through that crap.

fuck martin and harper. im going NDP!!!

Umm I dont quite understand why you qouted me Jessbuff, but I;ll go wtih it. The damn train to Vienna was all sold out.

Also, I see the same amount of "slinging" or whatever you called it from the Libs. They are pretty much making sure that everyone thinks that the Conservatives are the devil. All parties do it too much and no one is innocent. Bu t I'm drunk so who knows. Fuck i usesd the backspace lots.

makes going to the house of commons interesting. I love living in Ottawa

y the hell
that guys the good guy
--well thier all the same these god damn polititains
--lets vote in the block just to be funny

why does he scare people too much all were getting is less and less freedoms with the liberals plus they are spending money like krazy

first thing they should absolve is that stupid indian reserve act
did you know that every family in an indian reserve gets 70,000 dollaz per year that goes toward the community