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genetic modification

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coz
Posts: 1754 - Karma: 11
hey all - it appears to be social conscience time again! if u want to tell kraft to stop testing their genetically modified foods on us, go to this site and send kraft a letter in your name. (don't worry, u don't have to write the letter yourself, it's already there for u)

http://www.krafty.org/flash/
Dec 20 2002 11:07AM
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gravteck
Posts: 2390 - Karma: 13
Wait... are you mad because they are genetically altered, or altered, produced, and tested on us?
Dec 20 2002 11:38AM
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lizziebeth
Posts: 1596 - Karma: 22
almost all foods are genetically altered, not just kraft's. they make genetically altered fruits and vegtables all the time to save land and space that is used for growing. also, genetically modified foods are able to grow in third world contries that aren't able to support the production of certain foods. besides, what would we do without kraft mac and cheese???

********************
'i don't care what they say about us anyway. i don't care bout that.'
- weezer
Dec 20 2002 11:47AM
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coz
Posts: 1754 - Karma: 11
i'm against genetic modification in general, but what makes it worse is that people consume these products without knowledge of the modification.

the benefit to third world countries via genetically modified foods is almost nil. when there isn't even enough capital for farmers to harvest within their regulars means, how would one come up with the approximate 35% more $$ for GM seeds??

those issues aside, GM farming involves the use of 2 to 5 times more toxic chemicals than traditional farming. this translates into 20B per year in damages to the habitat, water, and human health in the US alone.

another issue is the problem with GM pollen being transitted to non-GM crops, and the added costs farmers are having to put into keeping their crops 'clean'.

the list goes on and on.. in the end, there is the possibility that through cross-breeding, we could lose a natural strain of a seed. and then what? there's no turning back....
Dec 20 2002 12:32PM
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SkierX
Posts: 16253 - Karma: 538
Other then genetic modification, I am against those tempelate form letters. They are just completely pointless. Write somehting of your own, and then maybe someone will take you more seriously.
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Dec 20 2002 3:46PM
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c_lo
Posts: 1281 - Karma: 10
Are you kidding me? Your telling me that gmo's benefit the third world?? Nah actually they don't. The third world countries that still grow ORGANIC crops (the ones that haven't been fucked over by the IMF or WB) are dependant upon that organic part for their livelyhoods. The G8 countries are giving gmos in the form of aid currently. They don't mill it it gets planted (like in mexico) and an entire natural strain gets destroyed. The other problem is that it is large corperations fucking with or food. Yes the same people who make your sweater for 75 cents and sell it to you for 100 dollars while taking your job away or reducing you to temp status. These bastards are creating 'kill' crops so that seeds need to be purchased every year and they make more money. If these seeds get released we are all fucked. Also these gmo grains are being desinged to only work with certain fertalizers. I'm scared
Dec 20 2002 3:51PM
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lizziebeth
Posts: 1596 - Karma: 22
and also they're going to/already have genetically modified and cloned PEOPLE and you're worried about the morals behind modifying food??

********************
'i don't care what they say about us anyway. i don't care bout that.'
- weezer
Dec 20 2002 7:37PM
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LifeJacket
Posts: 2665 - Karma: 62
For once I completely agree with C-lo

he's a smart dude....

i signed the letter, and if you think it's just Kraft, you need to get your head checked, everything, EVERYTHING these days is modefied, Even Honda civics...


'I'm still Ugly'
Dec 20 2002 7:48PM
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lizziebeth
Posts: 1596 - Karma: 22
how gm works

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'this is where i say i've had enough, and no one should ever feel the way that i feel now.'
Dec 20 2002 10:16PM
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PhattTim
Posts: 13943 - Karma: 83
I think that people are very ignorant and stupid in general when it comes to Genetic engineering/modification.

Genetic modification has been around since the dawn of time. Take an apple for example. When an apple's seeds hit the ground and germinate and begin growing into seeds, they do not make the same variety of apple tree that they came from. A Granny Smith's seeds can produce a Gala tree. Genetic modification at it's most simple level.

Humans have been genetically modifying and experimenting with this kind of thing for years and years. It is really nothing new.

~~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~~
#Cut the Jibba Jabb Crazy Fools! Start Skiing!#
*Be greatful, everyday, for snow, mountains, gravity and skiing*
@Talent Is Important, But Image Is God!@
Dec 21 2002 1:16AM
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CrazyChica
Posts: 608 - Karma: 11
wow, guys... i just eat the food :/



~*You have no idea what it's like to be me
I'm not saying that I do
I just wish that something was different
so hide your indifference away*~
Dec 21 2002 1:21AM
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Itsbackfliptime
Posts: 18901 - Karma: 75
thats a good point. People breed animals to make more meat with less fat. Thats all they are doing with the plants. The GM plants would do more than normal plants because they are usually bigger or healthier.

My girlfriend told me to shove my skis up my ass
Dec 21 2002 1:23AM
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mtw
Posts: 1241 - Karma: 30
Tim: there is genetic modification and genetic engineering. Genetic modification is naturally breading two things, which you mentioned has been going on for a long time, but genetic engineering is having a scientist do stuff with DNA. The latter is what most people are against (I think) because it has not been tested much.
Dec 21 2002 3:06AM
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coz
Posts: 1754 - Karma: 11
whoa here, i'm talking baby steps. if u like, i could get into the steps involved with producing chicken for mass consumption via mcdonalds et al, and how the chicken raises specifially for consumption experience the most inhumane conditions possible. (i'm not fighting for the rights of chicken here.. think about what we are doing to support the popular needs of us as humans)

there is something truly rotten with out earth, and we need to get to the bottom of it before we can move on as a species.
Dec 21 2002 4:55AM
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PhattTim
Posts: 13943 - Karma: 83
mtw, that's what I said.

Sweetcoz, yah, I see what you're saying. There are very small things like that. Take chicken for example. Given growth hormones to make them grow to maturity. That's been done ever since chickens have been farmed for commercial use. It's all about small manipulations to something to change it for our use.

Personally I don't see what the big fuss is about. If it makes it tastier, more of it and healthier then who cares, good stuff. When you start getting into super-diseases and anti-biotics, now that is some scary shiz.

As human beings, every single bloody thing we do is aimed at making our own stupid lives easier. If you think about, absolutley every task over the last couple hundred years has had the purpose of making our lives more luxourious and comfortable. I think we should all get off our freakin' lazy asses really. Think back to the days of settlers and colonies etc. They knew what hard-work and labour was. Starting from scratch, spending all day, dusk to dawn, doing the things to keep them alive. Building shelter, harvesting food, protecting the community from preditors. They knew what hard work was, I think we've lost that. Slightly off the topic but think about it.

~~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~~
#Cut the Jibba Jabb Crazy Fools! Start Skiing!#
*Be greatful, everyday, for snow, mountains, gravity and skiing*
@Talent Is Important, But Image Is God!@
Dec 21 2002 5:20AM
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c_lo
Posts: 1281 - Karma: 10
What the fuck do genetically modified people have to do with grain? Yeah, theres a difference between natural cross breading and lab breading. Lets not be retarted here. We tried it once before, remeber the green revolution?? Yeah it didn't work did it. We just fucked over the earth. Maybee if we did simple things like rotated crops shit would be better.Corporate science is not going to solve shit here.
Dec 21 2002 1:20PM
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PhattTim
Posts: 13943 - Karma: 83
I really don't think we've messed over the planet as bad as what everyone thinks. If you read New Scientist or Scientific American etc. You will know that:

1) The ozone hole is actually getting smaller
2) Actual global temperatures are 30 degrees C lower than estimated global warming temps.
3) One volcanic eruption anywhere will produce more pollution than mankind ever has in all existance.

Sure it wouldn't hurt to stop cutting up the forests and stuff but really. You have to be a bit more careful what you believe. Statistics can say absolutley, whatever, anything you want them to say. Rock hard facts are proof, not stats.

We've been measuring ozone and weather values for what, 100 years?? You should know that the earth has existed for a whole buttload more than that right? okay, good. Well, how the hell can we talk about trends and patterns when we only have data for 100 years?? Stupid. Basically, we have totally no idea what's going on. Estimates are estimates, theories are theories, ideas are ideas, nothing more. Take it with a grain of salt.

~~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~~
#Cut the Jibba Jabb Crazy Fools! Start Skiing!#
*Be greatful, everyday, for snow, mountains, gravity and skiing*
@Talent Is Important, But Image Is God!@
Dec 21 2002 4:52PM
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lineskier10
Posts: 11339 - Karma: 796
sweetcoz dont be a moron, most vegetables and fruits that are farmed are genetically modified and that is nothing, they arent more toxic because genes are genes, chemical levels of plants has nothing to with being genetically modified so shutup and go buy organic food for 5 times the cost of regular food if your gonna complain
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Creator of the NS Cousin Exchange Program
Dec 21 2002 5:16PM
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c_lo
Posts: 1281 - Karma: 10
Ozone? What the fuck are you talking about moron? Where is there shit mentioned about o zone on this thread?? The fact is our soil is degraded to shit and farmers are using 4 times as much fertalizer and water. If you grow the same crops taking the same nutrients from the soil and putting the same shit into the soil you fuck up the balance. And stop talking lineskier ten, nice icon faggot, go watch some mtv and don't step to intelligence.
Dec 21 2002 5:27PM
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PowderPrincess
Posts: 2767 - Karma: 20
k WOAH i just did 2 debates on the topic of if the government should ban genetically modified foods. I had to debate both sides, and from what i learned, i am pretty neutral about it. I dont know if this was posted but a strain called the Golden Rice has been created which only puts vitamin b nutrients in addition to the rice. Also, for the issues of third world countries, a big corporation in America was going to donate and pay for all the rice to give to these starving countries. Although the European Union will not allow GM foods in any of the European countries yet.
*brooke*

waskier720: 'you know how many times i have been accused of being proho?'
Dec 21 2002 5:40PM
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gravteck
Posts: 2390 - Karma: 13
Hmmm c_lo is actually right, and I'd like to combine that w/ the person above me. Alright here's the deal... basically we have this big monopoly Monsanto, you've probably never heard of them, they produce most of the GMO seeds and fertilizers and pesticides. They are probably a bigger monopoly than Microsoft. Monsanto produces their GMO seeds and sell them to farmers. The farmers have to sign contracts that they will plant the GMO seeds together, and they can't plant them next to a non GMO seed of the same type. This is what they have to do to purchase them. Actually Monsanto seeds are affordable to 3rd world countries, but there is a catch. Like the person said EU countries do not allow GMO products to be sold in their countries. These 3rd world countried are almost totally agrarian and NEED to make money by being able to seel their crops to EU countries... too bad this can't happen as long as they have to get their seeds from Monsanto. Monsanto also produces round up... which coincidentlly is the only compatible weed killer w/ their GMO seeds. So if you use the seeds, you HAVE to use their pesticides. As far as fucking up the soil, this isn't really the case. As long as you aren't planting the same crop in the same field, you aren't depleting the nutriets. Fertilizer supplies nutrients, and certain crops use certain nutrients but also aid in the replenishment of others. As long as you have crop rotation you're alright. You'd also be interested to know that in the US you don't know if what you've bought came from GMO's. Companies who don't use GMO's aren't allowed to advertise it because the supreme court decided that this was defamation, and defamation is a form of unprotected speech, as was decided in Miller vs. Ferber.. anyway I'm out.
Dec 21 2002 8:47PM
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coz
Posts: 1754 - Karma: 11
that's what i was originally trying to get at - if somebody wants to eat genetically modified foods.. fine, that's their perrogative - but the public should at least be aware of the practices involved with the foods they consume. in europe, GEDs have to be labelled, it should be the same here.

gravtek - isn't monsanto owned by a big drug company or something like that? i remember reading about it a while ago, but can't for the life of me find the article.
Dec 21 2002 11:23PM
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gravteck
Posts: 2390 - Karma: 13
Actually... I'm not sure on what goes into labeling. I'm not sure if the FDA required GMO's to be mentioned in the actual ingredient information in some products. The issue is as far as I know is that you can't explicitly advertise commercially or on a product label that you are GMO free, because this is considered unfair and defamation in the market place.

I don't know if GMO is under any other kind of company, but if trends continue like they are I'm sure it will be AOL/Time Warner/Monsanto/Microsoft/Hugh Heffner, look at that dreamteam.
Dec 21 2002 11:58PM
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lineskier10
Posts: 11339 - Karma: 796
clo you got a nice icon too wu-tang wow you must be some hardcore thug, just shut the fuck up moron
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Creator of the NS Cousin Exchange Program
Dec 22 2002 12:11AM
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PhattTim
Posts: 13943 - Karma: 83
C-lo, It really is very interesitng how much people bitch and moan about fertilisers and sprays, pesticides, insecticides, organophosphates etc and yet you don't mind sitting down to eat a nice, red, round, big, non-blotched apple don't you? Why do you think that apple is like that? Fertilisers and sprays of course. Think about it.

And the soil wouldn't be so wasted if it was looked after. I guess they do things differently down under coz there ain't nothing wrong with our soil. I guess the Americas are too interested in making money rather than making sure the land will be use-able for a decent length of time - pity.

~~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~~
#Cut the Jibba Jabb Crazy Fools! Start Skiing!#
*Be greatful, everyday, for snow, mountains, gravity and skiing*
@Talent Is Important, But Image Is God!@
Dec 22 2002 4:24AM
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abubboo
Posts: 452 - Karma: 10
yeah, organic food isn't even always healthier for you. fruits and vegetables are injected with hormones and nutrients for better yields and end up being 'healthier' for you. although healthy is a relative term. i don't know about other ppl, but vegans look like shrivelled up beings that are torturing themselves w/o knowing it.

and sweetcoz, chicken farms are not essential to the population's hunger needs. this belief of yours totally challenges your views against mass consumerism. in north america, the consumption pyramid reads 60% meat to 40% fruits and vegetables in an average person's diet, when it is supposed to read the opposite. i'm sure we can deal w/ a few less chickens in our diets.
Dec 22 2002 12:51PM
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andyrightcoast
Posts: 5220 - Karma: 18
Kinda wierd that Monsanto is based about 10 miles from where I live. My mom's friend worked for them as a chemist. I believe they were actually either BOUGHT or merged with another company. Their name is Solutia now I believe.

-Andy

/.

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'When you say 'I wrote a program that crashed Windows', people just stare at you blankly and say 'Hey, I got those with the system, *for free*'.' -- Linus Torvalds
Dec 22 2002 1:03PM
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ghettoprep
Posts: 1075 - Karma: 10
this is defintily weird that i actually agree with c_lo.

But anyways has anyone seen that commerical where they have a buch of like 4th graders talking about the benifits of genitcal engineering. they are trying to fucking brainwash us here.

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-Nell Cop
Dec 23 2002 12:20PM
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PhattTim
Posts: 13943 - Karma: 83
...and they will.

~~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~~
#Cut the Jibba Jabb Crazy Fools! Start Skiing!#
*Be greatful, everyday, for snow, mountains, gravity and skiing*
@Talent Is Important, But Image Is God!@
Dec 23 2002 7:37PM
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andyrightcoast
Posts: 5220 - Karma: 18
They show anti-weed commercials too, but those don't seem to work that well :-)

-Andy

/.

PPP... yes

'When you say 'I wrote a program that crashed Windows', people just stare at you blankly and say 'Hey, I got those with the system, *for free*'.' -- Linus Torvalds
Dec 23 2002 7:44PM
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coz
Posts: 1754 - Karma: 11
abubboo -- i said popular needs. of course we don't need to eat as much meat as we do.. that's just a given. here's a neat little fact for everybody. after eating meat, the body needs mass amounts of calcium to held digest all the meat. therefore, eating less meat would mean that you would need to eat less calcium.
Dec 23 2002 11:57PM
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c_lo
Posts: 1281 - Karma: 10
To phatt tim, I eat organic from local farmers, I live in a good area for it, I'm pretty sure australia wasn't safe from the green revolution. You may be able to grow but how much water are you using? Has irrigation increased? Yeah and your having to become more clever to do that aren't you? Yeah. (I'm aware of your inovative programs to deal with salination, props. but the fact remains you still have to irrigate more and more and not because of pop. growth) Shut the fuck up line10. You have a picture of an ignorant dead thug rapper, you don't know anything about hip hop. Your obviously one of those faggot abecrombie kids who pimps daddys 4x4 in the burbs with some 'sweet deathrow shit'. Think about how many times you've been called a faggot by the real heads. Yeah quite a few times eh? It's probably not a coincidence either is it? Yeah, shut the fuck up.
Dec 24 2002 8:28PM
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abubboo
Posts: 452 - Karma: 10
coz - exactly, it isn't a 'popular need'... there are more chickens being slaughtered than we actually need. so why is this ok, but a choice of one hundred different sweaters by a multinational not ok?..... i just think that if you're against consumerism, you should be absolutely against it.
Dec 27 2002 12:30AM
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coz
Posts: 1754 - Karma: 11
al - i don't remember the last time i ate fast food, and i now make the choice to eat as little meat as possible. the only time i do is when i 'have' to - ie - at family functions.. so you're right, it's silly to say one thing, and then go about another aspect of life as a hypocrite. but the with way we live, it's extremely difficult to change your life path without affecting many people along the line. (positively and negatively)
Dec 27 2002 1:04AM
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