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Canadian politics

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TAK
Posts: 5007 - Karma: 14
Anybody else catch Jack Layton press conference today? A liberal amount of slandering (pun intended!) of the the Liberals (even of Paul Martin... ?) but the main point was that he's threatening the liberals to get the a HeathCare package that is in line with the NDP's views. If not *POW!* No-Confidence vote. But I really can't imagine Layton actually doing that. With the Liberals under so much fire, even though Paul Martin is sitting pretty wiht his post-report witchhunt, an election, especially before the liberals push through some last things, could very well mean a conservative victory. Then the NDP views on Heathcare would be worth all of Jack-Shit. Unless of course the NDP were to win the election.

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So what do ya'll think? We fucked?
Nov 7 2005 7:06PM
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Lateralis
Posts: 1228 - Karma: 332
canada has politics???? no fucken way.....................
Nov 7 2005 7:09PM
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p-lin101
Posts: 1805 - Karma: 8
Ever since grade 10 civics ive loved politics, his press conference was not to be missed. What I'm unsure of though is how much backbone Paul Martin has. Like you said Jacko doesn't support the health care and its up to him for a no confidence vote if it comes to it. I jsut can't decide whether Paul will stick to his shit or not. Either way the elections coming and it doesn't look good for the liberals. Im not looking forward to any of the governments that get picked though
Nov 7 2005 7:10PM
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jibs
Posts: 2529 - Karma: 48
if there's an election it's likely that the conservatives will take power. This will be bad in layton's view because it's even further away from what he wants. Right now he's in a good position where even though he's not in power, he has some pull with the liberals. If he forces an election, he'll lose that.

Personally i think they're all a bunch of self serving goons in ottawa right now. They're making big deals out of anything they can to make the governement look bad, and in turn not giving enough attention to issues that matter. They're concerned about getting themselves into power, and not the peope. I'd like to see the whole shit show flushed down the toilet.
Nov 7 2005 7:31PM
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wrenegade
Posts: 6631 - Karma: 41
I hope to god the liberals don't get in again. We need a change. We SO badly need a change. As much as Paul Martin says that things we be better under him, hes just one man. One man who was the Finance Minister and couldn't control the spending, what makes you think he can do it now.

Sponsorship Scandal? Fuggetaboutit.

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Nov 7 2005 7:33PM
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TAK
Posts: 5007 - Karma: 14
Change yes, but the conservatives? They're jst itching to cuddle up to the U.S.

And come to think of, I can't think of a simgle politian I like. They all seem like knobs this time round. I quess Paul Martins not so bad actually. Much better than Harper or Layton.

But what do you guys think about possible outcomes for the election? Will enough canadian vote for the conservatives (even if out of spite) for them to win. While everybody hate the liberal right now, we're still at war with the U.S.A.

And I don't think Laytons has any bite on this no-confidence vote. You can Harper's just waiting for the stupid hippie to vote against his only ally.
Nov 7 2005 7:43PM
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whattheshit
Posts: 6562 - Karma: 107
they are all douche bags. paul martin is a fucking crook.
Nov 7 2005 7:49PM
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Download-My-Apps
Posts: 5069 - Karma: 1,017
fuck if the convervatives ever win we'll be the USA's bitch. Liberals did some bad shit though, i guess im liking NDP's looks for now, but even they arnt a good option
Nov 7 2005 7:54PM
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whattheshit
Posts: 6562 - Karma: 107
layton is a fucking crook to, he took advantage of subsidized housing with him and his wife. they lived pretty cheap for most of their lives at the expense of the tax payers.
Nov 7 2005 7:57PM
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wrenegade
Posts: 6631 - Karma: 41
I think we'd be lucky if Layton votes against the Liberals in a non-confidence vote. I'd love for it to happen, but realistically the Martin will probably make a deal and we'll have an election in the spring.

I doubt that Harper and the Conservatives will cuddle up with the Americans. Maybe 2 years ago before the Iraq situation, but they'd be fucking retarded to get themselves in that mess now. Besides the NAFTA deal is fucking us in the ass over softwood lumber and prevents us from amending how much of our resources are sent to the states. I'd hope that if the Conservatives got it they'd take a serious look at scrapping NAFTA and just go by the WTO.

The Liberals are too comfortable and will never change. Politics by nature is dirty, but I think the Tories will be less dirty. If they are still in power in 10 years maybe it won't be the same, but at least to start off with. Constant change is neccessary to keep politicians on their toes. And there'd be no way that there would be a Tory majority so there's no chance at huge social changes like outlawing abortion or changing the ruling on gay marriage.

Hopefully we have an election soon though while the Gomery inquiry is still fresh in peoples minds. If it happens in the spring, Ontarians will go back to remembering how much they love taking it in the ass and vote Liberal. Again. And nothing will change until the next scandal surfaces (which it will) and hopefully there is enough outrage to force another election.
Nov 7 2005 7:58PM
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TAK
Posts: 5007 - Karma: 14
Good point.
Nov 8 2005 2:47AM
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freestyler540
Posts: 13082 - Karma: 18,719
I cannot agree with that.
Steven Harper is aften childish and self centered. Everything has to be his way. Look at the attemped to get to power by elections; he complained forever before accepting his party's defeat.

All parties are currupt.The sponsership scandal is the most recent scandals. The reason why the Torries look good is because they could not create any scandal because they have no power.

I believe that the Torries are good opposition ( they have been doing that for 10 years) members. I just don't like conservatives ruling over Canada. Canadians in general are very liberal people.And the government must reflect that.
Nov 8 2005 12:24PM
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Cam
Posts: 2313 - Karma: 56
name one who isn't....
Nov 8 2005 12:27PM
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wrenegade
Posts: 6631 - Karma: 41
The Tories haven't been the opposition party for 10 years, the Reform and Canadian Alliance were. The Tories were barely a party after the 93' election.

The current Tories, an amalgamation of the old Tories and the Canadian Alliance, would not "rule" over Canada. They just barely have an edge in the latest polls, and such would have a minority government. As I said before, major social issues would not really be affected, as you said, Canadians in general are a liberal people.

The name "Liberal Party" however, is grossly misleading. Canadians are Liberal in the true sense of the word, not the definition the Liberal Party has come to portray. I agree that Stephen Harper may not be the best leader, ideally someone from Ontario should lead the Conservative party, but you have no proof to say that Stephan Harper or the Conservatives will be more dirty. We have concrete proof the Liberals are dirty. It is only my opinion the Tories won't be. We can't do worse than what we have now. lol. We need to give change a chance.
Nov 8 2005 12:48PM
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Lanemeyers
Posts: 5007 - Karma: 19
Will it always be a blue/red flipflop for the rest of our lives? I wonder...

Can someone explain the "no confidence rule" to me?

It seems like a good time to pull an election because of the Gomery report, however, not on your ally. I don't really see the sense in this. I'd like to know what Layton is thinking. At the same time, I don't believe that the Liberals would be voted out.... I read a survey in the Toronto Sun last week, (take it for what it is), regarding who people would vote for if an election was called and the majority of people said they'd still vote Liberal...
Nov 8 2005 12:54PM
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freestyler540
Posts: 13082 - Karma: 18,719
A "liberal" person is someone that does not have the values that religion teaches them. In a way, the liberal partie does portray the definition.They incourage homosexuality (even im against it) and abortion, two thing thing that are horrible crimes for the Church.

The liberals corrupted because they have been in power too long, and that you were right.Im just afraid that Harper could be "friends with Bush".It may not happen but im concerned.

I will vote for the green partie. At least they have something to contribute, not like the Block Quebecois!
Nov 8 2005 12:58PM
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wrenegade
Posts: 6631 - Karma: 41
As I said before, if this were 2 years ago, I too think Harper would have been best buds with Bush. Or at least he would have tried. And 2 years ago I would have supported him. I supported the war and still do (although not the way they are doing it). Unfortunately Bush royally fucked up the plans for invasion, went to war on false pretenses, and had absolutely no exit strategy. Its turned into a disaster, and luckily we didn't hop on board.

Harper would be stupid to ally himself with that idiot to the south now, so I don't think you have anything to worry about it that respect.
Nov 8 2005 1:05PM
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Lanemeyers
Posts: 5007 - Karma: 19
I wish people could base their decisions on personal values and not political gains...
Nov 8 2005 4:12PM
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TAK
Posts: 5007 - Karma: 14
Paul Martin.
Nov 8 2005 10:17PM
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Nadia.
Posts: 1124 - Karma: 1,104
If the NDP win, Medicare is going down the drain. They fucked things over in BC soooooooooo badly.. now imagine what theyd do to an entire country?
Nov 8 2005 10:53PM
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french_fry
Posts: 4698 - Karma: 53
NDP are socialists, and that's not what we need. On the other hand liberals are crooks and Stephen Harper is truly a conservative brainless dumbass, so i wonder what will happen
Nov 8 2005 10:56PM
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rockymountainmilitia
Posts: 2706 - Karma: 12
NDP will never win. Neither will the conservatives as much as everyone bitches and whines about new government action, the liberals will always be in power. I for one would love to see a conservative government. A group with a little more smarts then the Liberals. What did the Liberal party do when the USA would not let our beef into the states. WE BANNED FUCKEN TOMATOES. Good move Mr. Martin! Im sure we hit em hard.
Nov 9 2005 12:55AM
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fivefourtwo
Posts: 358 - Karma: 122
I hate the liberals they stole our money, I hate the ndp Jack Layton is an idiot, I dont like stephen harper but he is the one I hate the least.
Nov 9 2005 12:55AM
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powder99
Posts: 2761 - Karma: 12
im sorry but prov politics are completly different than federal politics, different parties, i know NDP fucked up BC and i don't support the federal NDP its just that they are very different
Nov 9 2005 2:04AM
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powder99
Posts: 2761 - Karma: 12
unfortunly we are left without much choice, even though the liberals must up with the sponsorship scandal they are still the best bet for the next election, Harper is a joke, religion has no part of politics in Canada we don't need it to be like the states, the NDP? im not going to even start Layton isn't smart enough to take control or he would have allready. As for the green party there is no point throwing my vote away
Nov 9 2005 2:07AM
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brokebutitsworthit
Posts: 2279 - Karma: 27
I cant forsee a vote of no confidence on the 15th. Nobody wants to go to the polls on dec 27th, i do think we will have an election in January, the sooner that we go to the polls the harder the liberals will be hit, They have been in power too long and dont seem to realise the real problem of western alientaion, when quebec and the west want to leave the country maybe your fucking up somehow eh. There is no way that Paul Martin didnt know about the sponsorship he was the fucking finance minister! I also dont really like any of our leaders now but think its time shit got shaken up, oh and um wheres my gst? where the liberals not going to abolish it in the last 2 elections, wasnt that their whole campaign....
Nov 9 2005 4:44AM
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sim
Posts: 1399 - Karma: -6
Can you blame em? I'd probably do it too if I knew that I could get paid...(wait, steal perhaps) to sit on a fence and make the occasional decision, albeit, usually a horrible one. Hey as long as the Canadian people (ahem,mmme Ontario) keeps voting for that, its not really their fault is it?
Nov 9 2005 9:42AM
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freestyler540
Posts: 13082 - Karma: 18,719
Dont forget the Blok Quebecois. The bunch of fucked up seperatists.
We have to vote for the less evil...
Nov 9 2005 9:47AM
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jibs
Posts: 2529 - Karma: 48
Canada should just go out on a limb and vote NDP. Why the fuck not eh? They're all self serving goons, all the choices reek of an emphatic suckyness. So why don't we just say, fuck it, let's have someone new take a hold...how much damage can they do in 4 years? And if they really suck, REVOLUTION! Storm ottawa, and make me king.

Sorry, i lost faith in the current canadian politicians, i just picture them giving them selves pay raises as they suck off the USA.

I'd rather have another 12 years of chretien. Now that guy was a fighter, not a pussy little bitch like these pussy little bitches.
Nov 9 2005 10:20AM
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Cam
Posts: 2313 - Karma: 56
here is an interesting thought that i am throwing out there for discussion:
Do you think that no matter what party is running the counrty, you wont see any real difference in the way things are run? That once whatever party is in comtrol, they are faced with the same amount of money, the same amount of resourses, and can't really do anything differently?
Nov 9 2005 10:25AM
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pocket-rocket
Posts: 4443 - Karma: 0
^Except if you vote BLOC QUEBECOIS

[img]http://ca.wrs.yahoo.com/;_ylt=AsTg6KATVRxfQ3ZaTz09tKb2FAx.;_ylu=X3oDMTA4NDgyNWN0BHNlYwNwcm9m/SIG=126tn87uj/EXP=1131637056/**http%3A%2F%2Fwww.quid.fr%2Fqm%2Fdp_etats%2Fzz_dp.gif[/img]
Nov 9 2005 10:37AM
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pocket-rocket
Posts: 4443 - Karma: 0
Nov 9 2005 10:37AM
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Cam
Posts: 2313 - Karma: 56
ok sorry, other than the Bloc
Nov 9 2005 10:39AM
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Cam
Posts: 2313 - Karma: 56
i guess i am talking about the big 3
Nov 9 2005 10:40AM
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pocket-rocket
Posts: 4443 - Karma: 0
Tabernak

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Nov 9 2005 10:42AM
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pocket-rocket
Posts: 4443 - Karma: 0
THE BIG 3??? WTF man, then the Block is #1 in your big 3!!!
Nov 9 2005 10:42AM
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Cam
Posts: 2313 - Karma: 56
ok, no, i am saying if its the Conservatives, Liberals, or NDP...woould there be much difference? this is just a thought for discussion. if the bloc were there i think there would be a lot of changes
Nov 9 2005 10:45AM
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jibs
Posts: 2529 - Karma: 48
In the past i've felt that it does make a difference, that bad policies will be halted, taxes will actually be lowered and that the new ideas that are churned out during the campagn will materialize.

I don't feel that way about this election. All the parties have been involved in childish name calling (i was trying to throw some back at them in my previous post), back stabbing, illegal sneakyness and much of that was during the otherwise valuable 'question period' in the house of commons.

I presume an election campagn this time around will involve a lot of mud slinging, and the creative ideas we usually see will be over shadowed by that.

No matter what the newly elected party does with the money, the other parties are going to be bitter about losing and this mudslinging will likely continue. Especially since there is a high likelyhood of yet another minority government.

Basically...i don't care what the fuck they do. Give me your plateform, i'll read it, i'll decide and i'll vote. But i'm not getting my hopes up for any sort of dramatic changes that'll make a difference in my life. I do expect to see an 'adventures in canadian politics' column on page 47 of the national enquirer though.

Conclusion: I hope to fuck they prove me wrong.
Nov 9 2005 10:47AM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22708 - Karma: 76,635
Vive le Quebec libre!!!!!!

Oh wait... I'm english. ;)
Nov 9 2005 10:50AM
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Cam
Posts: 2313 - Karma: 56
i agree with you on this, and it will be interesting too see
Nov 9 2005 10:55AM
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pocket-rocket
Posts: 4443 - Karma: 0
;)
Nov 9 2005 10:58AM
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goldengrams
Posts: 106 - Karma: -4
I think that too some extent not much would change, because of the fact no matter what, the country only has so many things, so much money, and so many resourses. but i think that a conservative gouvernment might help our econemy. I guess my big prolem right now, is that Canada is letting in too many imigrants. as for the bloc...well they are seperatisits and i don't think we should seperate our country
Nov 9 2005 11:05AM
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TAK
Posts: 5007 - Karma: 14
Exactly, but they can do very inmportant things, ala Tommy Douglas, or Brian Mulroney. So, if a goverment is going somehow finds the time of money to "Do Something" what do you want it to be, Douglasesque or Mulroneyesque? Personaly, I think the best parts of Canada are socialist. I can't imagine $1000 in every voter's pocket being enough consolation for becoming U.S.A. Jr.
Nov 9 2005 11:13AM
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freestyler540
Posts: 13082 - Karma: 18,719
I feel like making my own party.
The people partie or TPP. We are the axed on increasing trade ect, attention to the environment, easier immigration, and FUN!
C'mon who wants to start this partie with me?
Nov 9 2005 11:31AM
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Badfish2
Posts: 3453 - Karma: 21
I think there should be a new party for quebec that isn't associated with either the liberals of the bloc. They would be pro-quebec but not separatists. I think it would change the whole dynamic of canadian politics.

If the NDP triggers the election at this time, it's not a very good move. They could wait for the Conservatives Or Bloc to trigger one and then pucker up to the liberal party to get their votes - but that would shoot them in the foot for credibility..
Here's a question to ponder, how many NDP votes were previous Liberal voters and voted out of protest/change vs. ones that would side with the conservative party?? they're polars in my mind.
Nov 9 2005 11:40AM
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TAK
Posts: 5007 - Karma: 14
Quite alot I think. And this time around even more. Especially with Layton's focus on Heathcare. But I can't imagine it being even close enough to win. Enough to have the same roll as they have now, but not enough to lead.

And why are the Liberals corrupt? Paul Martin is cleared by the Gomery report. No?
Nov 9 2005 11:45AM
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Badfish2
Posts: 3453 - Karma: 21
I don't know though, I think they (well, the ones I know) might actually go back the other way - to the liberal vote - because they don't want to open the door to canadian alliance rule with Harper again.
Nov 9 2005 11:53AM
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freestyler540
Posts: 13082 - Karma: 18,719
He is partially responsible, he was not directly involved. But because he was the chief in finace he should have known that there were problems.
5 partie members were direcly responsible. They were fired after the report.
The reason why this is big is because it is the only weakness in the liberal partie. It is a mistakes exploded by the media and other parties. I got through the mail a panflet of the Bloc Quebecois accusing and making fun of the entire liberals partie. They also accused them of other crimes.
Nov 9 2005 11:55AM
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truckerhucker
Posts: 656 - Karma: 32
their all a bunch of fucked up money spending miserly richey rich liers
Nov 9 2005 1:22PM
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jibs
Posts: 2529 - Karma: 48
I agree with that, the other parties are getting frustrated by the liberal 'dictatorship'. Many people on here haven't been alive with any other leading party. The gomery enquiry, while bad, was blown out of proportion. It sort of reminds me of the clinton impeachment...though not nearly as ridiculous.

The ONLY reason i would want a regime change is so the liberals stop being so comfortable. They're getting lazy and getting them booted would stir things up a little bit, and hopefully put a end to the bitch slapping.

Voting is going to be hard though. I have such a terrible impression of all the politicians that it will be hard to vote based on platform, and not personality. What i would LOVE to see, and this just came to me, would be all the party platforms mailed out on plain white paper with no logos to give away who's platform it is. Just "if you elect me, this is what i'll do for you" straight up. You vote on plateform, and then find out the who's it was after they win or lose.
Nov 9 2005 7:53PM
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fivefourtwo
Posts: 358 - Karma: 122
except that there is no gaurentees they will do what they say they will.
Nov 9 2005 9:30PM
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