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KilaTsunami
October, 2024

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Line bindings and the struggle to re-shape ski retail.

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jetski
Posts: 375 - Karma: 10
One binding many skis. Sick concept put forth by the only company with the balls to shake up the industry. Other companies are more than capable of developing a system with removeable binders but they choose not to. The big companies do not want bindings that are able to switch from one set to the other because they would loose money. When the pilot system was first released I asked a high up rep if "blank" skis would be sold. He changed the subject super fast telling me crap about how sick the binding ski interface is. I feel sorry for people that buy an integrated binding system only to trash their skis on a rock. In the next few years some companies will try to push integrated freeski/binding combos. At all costs do not support this. We need to be able to mount any binding on any ski.
Line realizes that most skiers want a quiver with skis for every type of snow conditions and the reactor will make this happen. I know I will get pounced on for supporting the reactor but it is a concept way ahead of its time that I am willing to back all the way. Is it the only binding I own? No. Have I broken a set? Yes. Will I break another? Probably but I can also tear through 912's pretty quick as well.
I guess the point of this rant is most likely pointless but I want to point out that I'm making a point, by pointing out that hating Line is pointless and counter-productive to the growth of our industry. So point point point and peace.



Oct 24 2005 12:04PM
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skituner
Posts: 1162 - Karma: 127
roger that
Oct 24 2005 12:10PM
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whashisface
Posts: 298 - Karma: 10
I reckon you're on to something there. Any new product is likely to be a bit shakey in it's first few years- especially something as complex as a binding. It will hopefully get better.
And as a concept it's a sound idea.
Oct 24 2005 12:11PM
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Roy
Posts: 1982 - Karma: 1,240
IM not a line fan, but there idea for that binding is sick, I have 2 pairs of skis and am gettin a third thats 3 bindings, if i only had one that would save me 700 to 900 dollars (cad). Once they work out the kinks ill rock them, but i think they should make it a two peice, cuz i dont like the one one peice bindings alter the flex pattern
Oct 24 2005 12:14PM
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SSBS
Posts: 785 - Karma: 10
omg dude, the number of fucked up line bindings that ive seen... they suck dude ,really, thast inset system inst nearly as good as a regular binding, with holes properly drilled with a company jig
Oct 24 2005 12:17PM
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Phrosty
Posts: 9956 - Karma: 18
the binding only touches the ski in the middle, where the 4 mouting holes are it doesn't alter the flex pattern
Oct 24 2005 12:53PM
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BobYohan
Posts: 3001 - Karma: 375
i love the idea of the reactor, but its not ready yet. when they come out with an interchangable binding that performs like a p12 i will gladly purchase it. and i agree we should not support integrated binding systems.
Oct 24 2005 1:05PM
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coldsmoke20
Posts: 239 - Karma: 108
When do you guys see the all the kinks getting work out of the Reactor and it becoming reliable?
Oct 24 2005 2:10PM
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ski_and_distroy
Posts: 328 - Karma: 11
i hate those...they have great idea's with saveing knee's its what every skier needs is to save there knees butt
Oct 24 2005 2:14PM
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1realityskier
Posts: 33 - Karma: 10
yea it is a great idea, but there is other bindings otherwise line. there are tyolia, there pretty sick
Oct 24 2005 2:18PM
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jetski
Posts: 375 - Karma: 10
Why do you hate them? Have you ever tried them? Oh right NS says to hate and you are just following like a sheep. It is okay to state opinion but back it up!
Line bindings are gay because I heard they suck. or if you prefer... Line bindings suck because I heard they are gay. Think for yourself!
Oct 24 2005 2:18PM
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sherLocke
Posts: 4701 - Karma: 8
I once had a pair and they were great. no problems at all. The only thing with me is that im not the biggest dude on the planet so weight is an issue for me. they are heavy as fuck so i sold em for some 912's. thats my only complaint with them. i support the idea fully.
Oct 24 2005 2:45PM
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DaveHumphrey
Posts: 1758 - Karma: 82
i agree completely to this
Oct 24 2005 2:47PM
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djikstra
Posts: 2471 - Karma: 6,014
this reminds me of bashing on a little ol company that kills it now named LIBERTY BITCHES!
Oct 24 2005 2:48PM
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hugeairkid
Posts: 1802 - Karma: 29
The concept is completely right but it is going to take alot more time to get them perfectly and to turn skiers onto them. I had them a couple season's ago (and they shipped to stores almost 2 months late) so I was already pissed off I could ski my new motherships. But then after just 1 week of bad snow conditions and not skiing hard, the front toe piece ripped right off the front. It was almost like they rushed the technology. They were also very very heavy too. Once I hear from other people that the Reactors are great, then I might..MIGHT, go for them again.
Oct 24 2005 2:52PM
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skimasterflex
Posts: 2064 - Karma: 16
HAHAHA thats awesome.

On a lighter note I work in the Only territory that Line WON'T be selling the Reactor in because my rep did the RIGHT thing and REFUSED to sell it. He has been in it with Jason from the beginning and he said he just has to wait for it to get better before he'll risk anyone elses life/ski career. They need to find someone to buy it off them and make it work. They've been trying to do that for two years and nobody will.
Oct 24 2005 3:09PM
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Summit1
Posts: 75 - Karma: 10
There are many bindings on the market that suck for park and pipe which are being produced by major companies who have the ability to do anything to make them better. Props to Levinthal for stepping up to make something happen specifically geared toward this sector. As I remember it, that binding had been on the drawing board for years but it took forever to bring it to market.

Then you gotta look at Look/Rossi who switched up their pivot heel when it was starting to take over the market. WTF? They claim all these technical improvements but at the end of the day, they basically threw away a design that millions of skiers were in to!

So good or bad; right or wrong; at least the Reactor has a mission!

Bindings are all equally as dangerous and they all have two functions, release and retention. And they ALL break!
Oct 24 2005 3:57PM
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markhr
Posts: 157 - Karma: 10
take up telemark

7tm second ski unit
Click for larger image

bishop bomber second ski unit
http://www.bombertele.com/images/ISO_subplate_med.jpg
Oct 24 2005 4:22PM
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markhr
Posts: 157 - Karma: 10
oops

bishop bomber second ski units
Click for larger image
Oct 24 2005 4:24PM
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johanblaze
Posts: 4987 - Karma: 345
"In the next few years some companies will try to push integrated freeski/binding combos. At all costs do not support this."

and what makes you think this?.....
Oct 24 2005 4:25PM
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westnile
Posts: 372 - Karma: 10
UMM Dude the Line binding is a hostage binding to. you have to have lines skis for it to be interchangeable.
Oct 24 2005 4:28PM
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freeskier1316
Posts: 1771 - Karma: 27
or buy the freedom plate which is cheaper then say a pair of looks or salomons
Oct 24 2005 4:30PM
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Melvs
Posts: 15174 - Karma: 480
More companies like Armada and 4frnt need to step away from what is 'traditional' and put research into shit specific to us. Yes, it may lose you money at first, but we are never going to grow as an industry without people taking some risks and introducing new technologies.
Oct 24 2005 4:34PM
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jetski
Posts: 375 - Karma: 10
Purely speculation that is based 100% on my knowledge of the industry and my opinion alone. haha
For example the pilot system started small and is slowly creeping into Salomons line-up. There are more examples.
Oct 24 2005 4:37PM
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Melvs
Posts: 15174 - Karma: 480
Also, knowing anything about how Corporations work. If something means more money for the company, it gets done, regardless of how stupid it is.

Skis with integrated bindings = more money, therefore, it will be done as much as possible in the future.
Oct 24 2005 4:42PM
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jetski
Posts: 375 - Karma: 10
But they give you choice. I will use Salomons pilot system as example again. They easily could sell blanks and you could use one set of binders for multiple sets with nothing more than a tourque hex key. But they don't want you to do that. Ever notice that retail Salomon bindings have gotten worse since the release of the pilot? Old Salomon bindings would out last any Salomon ski by a couple of seasons so they needed to make them slightly more desposible.
wow... x-files shit right there
Oct 24 2005 4:43PM
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Melvs
Posts: 15174 - Karma: 480
And I will just say that I think they do need to do something to set themselves apart from the other companies. They are already stating to do it infact. Armada has it's new pole system. 4-Frnt has it's 'new' bindings. Companies that don't do something WILL get sucked out of the industry, because with so many to choose from, there has to be a REASON to buy them... peace though, Iw ill argue later.
Oct 24 2005 4:47PM
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Mahre
Posts: 2507 - Karma: 490
some companies want people to be able to afford more shit for less, while others want to make more money for less shit. some want to share their joys while other want to keep the little man down.
Oct 24 2005 4:58PM
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Melvs
Posts: 15174 - Karma: 480
I agree it's not, but companies are trying to do something to set them apart. I agree thatt none of them probably WILL do something revolutionary, because that means dumping money into R&D, and none of these fucking companies have a heart to do it when they are making money as is. Line did, and although it was a failure so far, I have super respect for what they're trying to do.

I wanna see a magnetic binding system that allows you to pretty much just step onto the ski.

Maybe I'll invent it?
Oct 24 2005 4:58PM
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jetski
Posts: 375 - Karma: 10
Well put Andy. That pretty much sums up the differences between companies.
Oct 24 2005 5:01PM
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Melvs
Posts: 15174 - Karma: 480
Oh you did NOT go there.... that's LOW. you knwo damn well how much time school takes up when you're in engineering at a decent college.

But just since you broght it up, I acutally just had a friend go pick me up some shit so I can print templates of the mold ribs we need cut. But ya, the press should be pumping out some skis within a month or two.

as for the magnetic binding system, I got the whole idea in my head, just gotta get some time to do some research on materials and test it. then I sell it to both the ski and snowboard industries, and watch the cash flow like champange.
Oct 24 2005 5:04PM
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johanblaze
Posts: 4987 - Karma: 345
haha. remember how when step in snowboard bindings first came out, everyone thought they were the shit? and now... people went back to the old fashioned strap in way. i think magnetic bindings are going down the same road. i wouldn't even give them a try to tell you the truth. there's to was in hell i would trust magnets to hold my skis to my feet.

totally not the subject of the thread, but i felt the need to say in anyways.
Oct 24 2005 5:07PM
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Melvs
Posts: 15174 - Karma: 480
anyways, back to the discussion at hand.

I think it's important to pump money into these companies that are in our industry. Not Salomon, or the huge corporate owned ones. Once we start doing that, they can start developing new technologies.

Look at the Lib-Tech skis for example. That's some crazy shit they ahve on it, and if it works out, I think they'll become a huge player in the industry, BECAUSE of their technology.
Oct 24 2005 5:07PM
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Melvs
Posts: 15174 - Karma: 480
things will never change without someone taking risks in crazy new ideas.

I've heard a lot of people say that the reason so many great ideas and inventions have come about before the person is 30 is because they aren't trained to be confined in their thinking. I'm not saying I'm one of those, but it's the crazy ideas that lead to the huge innovations.
Oct 24 2005 5:09PM
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Inthefridge
Posts: 207 - Karma: 15
The reactors are too heavy, have too much lift and they break too easily. Good idea though but theres no performanmce yet.
Oct 24 2005 5:39PM
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Melvs
Posts: 15174 - Karma: 480
I will still stand my my stance. Taking risks is what faciliates changes. I don't think you can argue against that.

However, I agree that companies may not do it because they are money hungry and don't care about the industry. Ya, I said it.
Oct 24 2005 5:47PM
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jetski
Posts: 375 - Karma: 10
Thanks for adding your input, it made the thread much better.
I didn't notice the weight unless I was carrying them, The lift is minimal and I skied 40 days before they broke.
I'm not saying they are the best binding on the market but they are better than some.
Lets pretend that the binding wasn't targeted to freeskiers or park rats. I'm pretty sure the average joe public skier would not break the reactors. The Line binding is beat on by skiers who demand quality and abuse their equipment. They didn't quite hold up but they will get better cause guys like me are supporting them.
Oct 24 2005 5:48PM
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thatoneguyattyrol
Posts: 1497 - Karma: 14
doesnt line claim outright that they weigh the same as other bindings, only that they feel heavier because you are carrying one piece?

someone break out a scale already and settle that one.

www.snowcoupons.com
Oct 24 2005 6:04PM
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ThePoopSock
Posts: 2619 - Karma: 22
the reactors are a great idea, but think about other things that started out as a great idea but took hundreds of trys to perfect, even with other bindings, i seriously dought that the first try at making a look binding performs as amazing as they do today, give it time and i think the reactors will be by far the best binding out there, they just need to work out some serious kinks
Oct 24 2005 6:31PM
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UrbanRider
Posts: 265 - Karma: 10
itll take a while for them to be up to abusing quality but then it will be sick....like straight skies to shaped
Oct 24 2005 6:36PM
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andrewkane
Posts: 364 - Karma: 10
good idea but bad execution. Finally line may be gone.
Oct 24 2005 7:34PM
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mckeeman
Posts: 2674 - Karma: 122
good point...one binding many skis...

they had the concept, but apply that concept to a salomon...instead of drilling 8 holes, have 8 adjustable holes that can fit any size boot, kind of what that snowboard company did a few years ago with their binding system. When there are no bindings attached the rivets slide up and down on a track, but when tightened into a binding, they remain in place. Think about it.
Oct 24 2005 8:57PM
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twintipteles
Posts: 2954 - Karma: 13
although the bombers are sick, there still aren't any decent releasable tele bindings for park, so i would say alpine is waaaay ahead
Oct 24 2005 9:15PM
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snowbladesforlife
Posts: 2033 - Karma: -3
Actually line bindings are the lightest bindings that are on a track on the market, they are way lighter than demo bindings. They should save weight by making smalls, mediums and larges that fit different categories of boots so they wouldn't need a complete track.
Oct 24 2005 9:21PM
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STAUSS
Posts: 8232 - Karma: 3,311
heres what i have, ninthwards and looks and thats what ill stay w/

unless line sponcers me or soemthing.
Oct 24 2005 9:35PM
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snowbladesforlife
Posts: 2033 - Karma: -3
Way to spell there chief, at least you got look bindings. They will last longer than the skis.
Oct 24 2005 9:38PM
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skimasterflex
Posts: 2064 - Karma: 16
How is having a bad product and NOT changing it year to year to make it better "facilitating change?" Not to mention the only chance they're taking is the random possibility that maybe this year it won't get cold enough that the plastic housing on their product doesn't crack! The idea is great and I apreciated this kind of idealism last year when I was totally on your side but they did Absolutely Nothing to upgrade this years Reactor from last Season so I'm taking this year off from being one of you blind faithful. The second they even Attempt to improve it I'll be back on board and test it for them Again but not a second sooner. It isn't being sold in Northern CA one of the fastest growing twintip ski markets wake up!
Oct 24 2005 10:03PM
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grubix2
Posts: 2628 - Karma: 25
Big companies have a board of directors and investors who demand nothing else than profits, while small companies have core people who buy their shit. If the reactor technology is sold to a larger company... you can kiss it good bye. Only reason why they might buy it is so nobody else can produce it.

Heres a thought, what if a few of the smaller companies merged togehter? Lets say... a Line-Armada merger. Your talking 2 of the most core companies out their who would love to get that thing out on the market working properly. Kinda like how look and rossi are the same.
Oct 24 2005 10:16PM
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Melvs
Posts: 15174 - Karma: 480
I wasn't talking about line specifically, but ok, I can see how you would think that.
Oct 24 2005 10:28PM
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skimasterflex
Posts: 2064 - Karma: 16
I do think the Lib Tech NAS will kill it though I'm totally getting some to try/sell in my shop this year.
Oct 25 2005 1:31AM
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