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MANTRAS- GOOD BAD OR UGLY

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free2ski89
Posts: 51 - Karma: 16
thinking bout picking up a pair- what do y'all think? worth it? i ema nthey are taking over the explosiv soooooooo... but will they be good?

Sep 26 2005 2:28PM
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Kevo
Posts: 2374 - Karma: 136
I got some184's. They are supposed to be good for all/big mountain. Not much of a park ski, but great for everything else. http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=26092





To love the times we have
To like what makes us sad
To live when others die
To lose and say goodbye
To last until our moment comes
Sep 26 2005 2:35PM
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Vicious
Posts: 3862 - Karma: 140
Get 'em while you can.

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Sep 26 2005 2:37PM
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SquawMan
Posts: 214 - Karma: 14


an awesome ski for everyday western conditions

Sep 26 2005 2:40PM
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cpas_
Posts: 349 - Karma: 22
Sickest graphics ever!

-------
-Cam
Sep 26 2005 2:41PM
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skimasterflex
Posts: 2064 - Karma: 16
^ you're joking right? I would call them bad and ugly skis. They feel like big clankety fiberglass boards. There are way too many better skis in this category to mess around with the Mantras. Let the people who have to buy Volkl because they are retarded buy these and remain in everlasting ignorance to the progression of big mountain skiing as for the rest of us ski a better ski.

'Skiing is 90% outfit, 5% equipment, and 5% ability' -Lief Storer
Sep 26 2005 3:09PM
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alev
Posts: 7819 - Karma: 410
yea ive got pocket rockets ill trade for them

Run For Cover Productions
we.ski.for.fun
Sep 26 2005 4:16PM
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Kevo
Posts: 2374 - Karma: 136
So what viable alternative would you suggest? Seth's? ARV's? They all have different pros and cons. Calm Down.




To love the times we have
To like what makes us sad
To live when others die
To lose and say goodbye
To last until our moment comes
Sep 26 2005 4:20PM
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Vicious
Posts: 3862 - Karma: 140
What are you skiing this year??

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Sep 26 2005 4:21PM
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Vicious
Posts: 3862 - Karma: 140
What are you skiing this year?? ('Anything I want' doesn't count as an answer)

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Sep 26 2005 6:19PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
I would like to ski a pair, as I have heard good things. But I have not skiied them as yet so I cannot offer my own opinion. Although I don't see why they'd replace the explosiv after like 12 years for no good reason. One would imagine it must be an improvement.

~~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~~

"Most guys know that women dig guys with money. Would Donald Trump be fucking models if he wasn't rich? That question is rhetorical. Now I don't even believe this is wrong, I think it is just nature. But I also think women who are this way (and it is almost all of you) should be honest and admit that they are basically whores, and stop saying bad things about the so-called "actual whores" who are just trying to earn an honest living."
Sep 26 2005 7:17PM
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skimasterflex
Posts: 2064 - Karma: 16
I have skied the Mantras so my point of veiw abou them is experienced and not some random hate. I am skiing big mountain this year on Prophet 130's to start then maybe later ANT's or VCT's. The Prophet 100 or Scratch BC would be the best viable alternative for this guy if he skis big mountain and is good, or the ARV, Seth or MSP if he wants something softer, but still better/ more stable than Mantras. I've skied all these skis and reveiwed them for my stores new webpage sierrsnowboard.com if you would like to read further about my thoughts. Keep in mind of course that I had to find something good to say about each ski I demoed since I have to sell them all. I didn't buy the Mantra for my store however because it sucks.

'Skiing is 90% outfit, 5% equipment, and 5% ability' -Lief Storer
Sep 26 2005 7:29PM
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AKFREERIDE
Posts: 1718 - Karma: 11
hmmm i dont know about you mister.....to many skis under your belt.........

AK Pride

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Sep 26 2005 7:43PM
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SquawMan
Posts: 214 - Karma: 14


Skimasterflex obviously has an agenda

the Mantra absolutely rips even better than the Explosiv did

people may prefer one ski over another but yours is hate, so I'm guessing Volkl didn't give your shop an allocation or you only like skis with waist sizes greater than 100cm

the Mantra like the Explosiv is probably going to be one of the alltime best everyday Tahoe skis

Sep 26 2005 8:26PM
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Kevo
Posts: 2374 - Karma: 136
Hey Skimasterflex, I'm sure Volkl will be glad to know that one of their suppliers is badmouthing their company.

"Let the people who have to buy Volkl because they are retarded buy these and remain in everlasting ignorance to the progression of big mountain skiing as for the rest of us ski a better ski."

Uh...don't you lose contracts and get fined for making statements like that????




To love the times we have
To like what makes us sad
To live when others die
To lose and say goodbye
To last until our moment comes
Sep 26 2005 10:19PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Maybe he just wants people to buy core gear. You gotta respect that... I know I'd want to buy core stuff from someone who makes comments like this about PBP movies... specifically WAR:

skimasterflex*
435 Posts
Ridiculous

Sep 26 2005
3:05:15
Quote Reply
is it on torrent anyone?

'Skiing is 90% outfit, 5% equipment, and 5% ability' -Lief Storer

~~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~~

"Most guys know that women dig guys with money. Would Donald Trump be fucking models if he wasn't rich? That question is rhetorical. Now I don't even believe this is wrong, I think it is just nature. But I also think women who are this way (and it is almost all of you) should be honest and admit that they are basically whores, and stop saying bad things about the so-called "actual whores" who are just trying to earn an honest living."
Sep 26 2005 11:22PM
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Vicious
Posts: 3862 - Karma: 140
I love this part: "Let the people who have to buy Volkl because they are retarded buy these and remain in everlasting ignorance to the progression of big mountain skiing as for the rest of us ski a better ski."

Have you ever thought that many people buy Volkl because they very clearly make some of the best skis available?? I haven't ever been on a pair of Volkls that I didn't enjoy.

And as for you saying Volkl isn't 'progressing', which by the way I'm so sick of people talking about 'progression' I could vomit, have you never heard of the Gotama, Karma, Dogen, etc. Volkl has a whole line-up of newschool-oriented sticks this year. Not to mention, they also have the Sumo and the Sanouk, which are keeping pace with all the huge-waisted sticks these days.

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Sep 26 2005 11:34PM
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Kevo
Posts: 2374 - Karma: 136
Forget Core companies, forget main stream companies. Buy skis that are right for you. Enough of this crap. Skimasterflex badmouthed one of the ski companies that he carries in his SNOWBOARDING shop. The word ski isn't even in the name. Don't try to tell me that he is trying to support core ski companies when he runs a shop that pushes snowboarding first.




To love the times we have
To like what makes us sad
To live when others die
To lose and say goodbye
To last until our moment comes
Sep 26 2005 11:49PM
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Vicious
Posts: 3862 - Karma: 140
Good point...I was just saying that same thing to someone.

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Sep 26 2005 11:50PM
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DHogg
Posts: 3462 - Karma: 237
"why would you buy volkl"
Well i can think if several reasons. They are one of the sickest companies out there who are making some of the best skis out there, they are cheap, durable and overall great skis

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Sep 27 2005 12:03AM
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Vicious
Posts: 3862 - Karma: 140
I agree with everything except the 'cheap' part.

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Sep 27 2005 12:04AM
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DHogg
Posts: 3462 - Karma: 237
true. well some of their skis are cheap. The dogen is only $350 at als ski barn.

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SnowPark NZ- www.snowparknz.com
Sep 27 2005 12:24AM
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skimasterflex
Posts: 2064 - Karma: 16
^that's because it's made in China at the K2 factory.

'Skiing is 90% outfit, 5% equipment, and 5% ability' -Lief Storer
Sep 27 2005 5:18AM
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skimasterflex
Posts: 2064 - Karma: 16
Volkl does make lot's of good skis all I am saying is that in the Specific category there are much better ones to choose from. You guys effing suck and are just butthurt because I was loud with my opinions. Anybody who has skied Volkl lately knows that they changed their entire theory on ski construction a couple years ago to grab more of the market. This meant taking any kind of metal out of almost all of their retail skis. Last year for instance the only retail production skis with metal in them were the Superspeed a $1000 plus gs groomer only ski and the Karma (we all know what that is). Volkl built their name on metal in their skis and now they just use more fiber glass so the skis feel glassy. Some people totally dig it some people, like me only like it around a 74mm waist and less. Like the new Allstar kills it and so does the AC3. As the width gets wider the glass becomes more apparent at which point I like a different feel and so would most of you. You can argue against my motives call me biased or an asshole all you want and yes my store is still waiting to buy the url sierraski.com for our ski page, but whether you like it or not we have the best service, most knowledgeable staff, best boot fitting and by far the best prices in California. We ski everything before we buy it and we reveiw it all personally. Every ski gets put through a legitemate test unlike magazine tests which quite often get different skis than stores. Yes I do sometimes download movies on bit torrent if you have a problem with the ammount of money I make the ski industry that is your problem, I'm not going to pay $30 for every movie I want to check out. If I like it I buy it.

'Skiing is 90% outfit, 5% equipment, and 5% ability' -Lief Storer
Sep 27 2005 5:29AM
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pietrovito157
Posts: 722 - Karma: 10
I have skied the Mantras so my point of veiw abou them is experienced and not some random hate. I am skiing big mountain this year on Prophet 130's to start then maybe later ANT's or VCT's. The Prophet 100 or Scratch BC would be the best viable alternative for this guy if he skis big mountain and is good, or the ARV, Seth or MSP if he wants something softer, but still better/ more stable than Mantras. I've skied all these skis and reveiwed them for my stores new webpage sierrsnowboard.com if you would like to read further about my thoughts. Keep in mind of course that I had to find something good to say about each ski I demoed since I have to sell them all. I didn't buy the Mantra for my store however because it sucks.








I completely agree mantra, after skiing it isn't a ski i'd ski on if it was free...

Sep 27 2005 6:58AM
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Flynn
Posts: 1174 - Karma: 10
The mantra is definately not in the same category as the explosive was. I think volkl kind of realised that although the explosiv was a great ski, there just wasnt a huge huge market for a ski with a small turning radius like that as there used to be. The mantra to me is more of a ski that people would ride if they were renting them to go heliskiing, and would consider themeselves a very good resort skiier. In that category they are a VERY good ski because they are so easy to make do whatever you want, other than rip huge lines because they are a little on the soft side.

Sep 27 2005 7:11AM
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SquawMan
Posts: 214 - Karma: 14

(1) the Mantra has bulletproof construction and 2 layers of Titanal just like the EXplosiv it replaced, so caling it "unstable" is truly making you sound clueless. I straightlined tons of lines at Squaw on it including the Palisades and did it on a 184 without any problems at all.

(2) the Explosiv is one the the alltime great cult skis with a 12 year run so criticizing the Mantra is like saying famous extreme skiers don't know a good ski when they ski it and you're better than them, which is totally laughable

(3) people who like park skis and apply park moves to the big mountain may not like the Mantra because it's really stiff, not forgiving, and doesn't have a high turned up tail - so for those people, I can see them not liking the ski. You can't land switch on it and if you get in the back seat, ti will take you for a ride.

That said, for it's intended purpose (fat ski that carves and rips all over the mountain in any conditions) it rules. It busts crud like no other and it rips everywhere BUT the park.

If you want better powder performance, get the Gotama, but don't criticize a great ski by placing it in a category where it doesn't belong (skis that do park tricks in the big mountain)

p.s. I'd also make a bet that somewhere in his past, skimasterflex was rejected by Volkl either to be on their team or in some other way....his hate is too deep seated to be objective

for what it's worth, Footloose actually did an accurate write up of the Mantra....

Mantra
High Performance Powder/Big-Mountain All-Mountain
The Mantra is the all-new replacement for the ancient and much loved Explosiv fat ski. Like the old Explosiv, the Mantra is a stiff, burly fat ski made for expert skiers who want one fat ski that will work well in a variety of snow conditions, and take some serious abuse. The Mantra has the same bomber laminate construction as the old ski, with a wider (and slightly softer) tip for better carving, and rounder, smoother shapes to the tip and tail. This is one of the best skis out there for big, strong skiers, and it rules in crud and chopped-up snow, and grips better than most skis this size on hard snow. It’s a great choice for big Western ski areas that get a variety of conditions, but there are better true powder skis out there: it’s just too stiff to be a powder ski, but this is a worthy compromise for everyday versatility. We’d be willing to bet that the Mantra will carry on the Explosiv tradition of bulletproof durability.
Compare to the Rossignol B3, Head Monster iM88, K2 Apache Chief, Atomic Sugar Daddy.
Requires wide brakes.
Sizes 170, 177, 184, 191, Sidecut 130-94-113
$765







Sep 27 2005 7:34AM
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Vicious
Posts: 3862 - Karma: 140
You just shouldn't talk anymore.

1. You said the Mantra isn't in the same category as the Explosiv. C'mon dude, the Mantra replaced the Ex. With the main differences being different sidecut and tail, it's basically the same ski. Construction is virtually the same.

2. You said you thought the Mantra would be a ski people would rent to go heli-skiing. haha. Anyone who knows how to ski or knows how to choose a ski properly would not take the Mantra heli-skiing. There are a mulitude of better sticks for that. The Mantra is not built as a pow ski, which leads me to my next point.

3. You said the Mantra is a little on the soft side. Again, wrong. The Mantra is quite stiff. Hence, the reason why it's not ideal as a pow ski.

I don't know where you get your info, but it's a bit off brother.

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Sep 27 2005 9:24AM
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Lineskier-101
Posts: 7863 - Karma: 22
Mantra's got a surprisingly low rating by Freeskier.

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Sep 27 2005 9:36AM
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SquawMan
Posts: 214 - Karma: 14


they also gave a similarly low rating to the Dynastar Legend Pro and lots of other traditional big mountain (stiff) skis that most hard core big mountain people ride

Freeskier obviously have a bias for softer, powder skis, so those get the higher ratings

hence the reason the 175cm Volkl Sumo almost got a perfect score

ratings mean nothing until you understand the context of the reviewers

Sep 27 2005 9:39AM
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Lineskier-101
Posts: 7863 - Karma: 22
^Head super Mojo's got a 10, I doubt they're soft allmountain skis.

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Sep 27 2005 9:46AM
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Flynn
Posts: 1174 - Karma: 10
Ski the mantra, ski the explosive, the Mantra is a ton easier ski to ski, hence my point with calling it an heli rental ski, which your right i shouldn't have done. I should have called it a ski you rent when your an east coaster who goes out west occasionaly...sometimes in powder,sometimes on groomed. The sidecut which you make seem like its not a big deal is the biggest deal with this ski and hence why its in a different category of ski.

Saying a ski replaced another ski and that is what makes it similar is completely moronic. The reason the mantra is easier to ski in powder is because of its fatter tip relative to its tail, so the nose natural wants to come up. Yes it will hook more, but it floats easier which is all alot of people are looking.

The reason alot of people loved the explosiv was because of its turn radius, something that is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT in this ski. It skis nothing like the explosiv, and i will now tell you to not talk anymore until you realise that a change in something like sidecut can change the cetegory a ski is put into.

Sep 27 2005 9:46AM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
I'm personally in favour of dispensing with the guy who thinks he knows what he's talking about before the two of you who actually do start an e-war.

~~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~~

"Most guys know that women dig guys with money. Would Donald Trump be fucking models if he wasn't rich? That question is rhetorical. Now I don't even believe this is wrong, I think it is just nature. But I also think women who are this way (and it is almost all of you) should be honest and admit that they are basically whores, and stop saying bad things about the so-called "actual whores" who are just trying to earn an honest living."
Sep 27 2005 9:48AM
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SquawMan
Posts: 214 - Karma: 14


there are tons of former Explosiv riders who bought the Explosiv in it's last year (2004/05) who demo'd the Mantra and decided that since it skis so similarly, they'd keep the EXplosiv and not upgrade until it wears out

that said, the sidecut is different but the ride is similar (may be slightly more turny)



Sep 27 2005 9:57AM
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Flynn
Posts: 1174 - Karma: 10
I've owned explosivs and felt the mantras just lost the predictablity that the explosivs had. They are an easier ski to manipulate on groomed, and the nose seemed to want to come up more in powder. I felt like it was an easier ski to ski that strayed farly far from the predictability of, like you said, the basis of the explosiv for 12 years.

It just doesn't seem to me that the same type of person would love the mantra the way the loved the explosiv and apparently that is where im wrong and my personal opinion on the two strays from that of the masses.

Sep 27 2005 10:13AM
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SquawMan
Posts: 214 - Karma: 14


you aren't wrong, it's your opinion and at least you know the nuances of the ski as opposed to some others

Sep 27 2005 11:04AM
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skimasterflex
Posts: 2064 - Karma: 16
It will be interesting to see this year what those guys say about it, you know the guy next to you on the lift every so often whose on one of his six pair of explosives he has at home. He skies 100 days a year and doesn't need much sidecut to rip up all of Squaw or Alpine here in Tahoe. I REALLY want to talk to that guy after he skis it because he it has been my experience that the main reason he skis the explosiv so religiously as opposed to adapting with the times is that he doesn't like what more sidecut and a softer flex does for him. Maybe that guy is fianlly out of his prime and would like some shape now and a softer tip, but if you said that to him on the lift last year I don't think you'd get a very good response.

'Skiing is 90% outfit, 5% equipment, and 5% ability' -Lief Storer
Sep 27 2005 11:30AM
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SquawMan
Posts: 214 - Karma: 14


it's only slightly softer in the tip and that's only to compensate for the extra 10mm of shovel they tacked on to make it float better in powder

the overall stiffness in the rest of the ski is exactly the same

so what do you get with the new Mantra: wider shovel, more float, tighter turn radius, same bombproof construction, huge stability, damp ride as usual, no deflection in crud at any speed despite the sidecut and despite the wider tip

seems like an improvement to me

now, if I was looking for a backcountry jib ski, the Gotama would clearly get my vote over the Mantra




a post on TGR by an exec at Volkl.......


06-02-2005, 07:29 AM
squaretail
Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 25



Both skis have full, vertically laminated, epoxy-impregnated wood cores with .8mm titanal belts top an bottom, with the whole thing wrapped in fiberglass.

They are 99.99% the same. The only difference is how the glass is layed up. The Explosiv was a traditional "wet wrap" ski whereas the Mantra is a new woven glass fiber. The result is that the Mantra is more torsionally rigid while being a micron softer in the tip - something that is neccessary to make the increased sidecut depth work properly.



Sep 27 2005 11:47AM
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skimasterflex
Posts: 2064 - Karma: 16
That's all good and fine but the category has tough competition this year as everyone here will agree. Compared to some of its competition in the marketplace I would have to say I was not impressed by the way it skied. Ski it back to back with even a sifnificantly softer fat twin and you'll be surprised how stable some of the softer stuff is. The 185 AR5 lays down better on the groom and so does the Seth Vicious even. I skied them on the same day same run at Squaw and then again at Northstar with the K2 and Volkl reps and that was my experience. K2's buying of volkl last summer doesn't bodse well I'm telling you.

'Skiing is 90% outfit, 5% equipment, and 5% ability' -Lief Storer
Sep 27 2005 12:09PM
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Kevo
Posts: 2374 - Karma: 136
^I love how you ate your own words and came back and defended Volkl after making your original comment. Way to be spineless when confronted with your own stupidity. That being said, the big mountain guy with a huge quiver who skis 100 days a year that you described is Vicious. Look at his profile. He owns many of the alternative skis that you listed, and yet he still chooses to ski the Mantra as an everyday ski.




To love the times we have
To like what makes us sad
To live when others die
To lose and say goodbye
To last until our moment comes
Sep 27 2005 12:21PM
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PowAirRider
Posts: 651 - Karma: 6
having skied the mantra and the visious i can say that the mantra is 10x's as stable as the viscious. the mantra will bust through anything while the viscious's super soft tips get deflected in all types of crud. i did like the way the viscious rode in anything untracked for the same reason though. like its been said before they're not in the same category and shouldnt be compared in similar fashions.

Sep 27 2005 1:05PM
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skimasterflex
Posts: 2064 - Karma: 16
I wouldn't say I defended anyone. I just mellowed out my angst to a more appropriate level. Anyway some of you want to know what my bone to pick with Volkl is and I'll tell you, all it is is that I get customers who don't want to know what is going on in skiing, they just want to see the new Volkls which is extremely closed minded. Just wait until the skis of the year are announced you'll be surprised to know that small brands did so well this year.

'Skiing is 90% outfit, 5% equipment, and 5% ability' -Lief Storer
Sep 27 2005 1:34PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
But... the fact that a lot of gapers like them doesn't make them bad skis. Last year around this time, even among people who knew their shit really well, there was tons of hype surrounding the Gotamas. Lots of average joes think K2 twins are pretty nifty, that doesn't mean they suck, does it?

~~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~~

"Most guys know that women dig guys with money. Would Donald Trump be fucking models if he wasn't rich? That question is rhetorical. Now I don't even believe this is wrong, I think it is just nature. But I also think women who are this way (and it is almost all of you) should be honest and admit that they are basically whores, and stop saying bad things about the so-called "actual whores" who are just trying to earn an honest living."
Sep 27 2005 1:39PM
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iggyskier
Posts: 10447 - Karma: 10,016
how does this have anything to do with how the Mantras ski......

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Sep 27 2005 1:40PM
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SquawMan
Posts: 214 - Karma: 14


typical Mantra/Exploder type personality......in picture format using the ski in it's 'natural' setting....

Click for larger image

Click for larger image

Click for larger image



Sep 27 2005 1:50PM
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skimasterflex
Posts: 2064 - Karma: 16
I didn't say it did. THe way it skied for me has nothing to do with who made it or any of that I just must not have had the kind of crud these guys are talking about or something. I don't know though I think if we all skied every ski over 90mm wide this thread would be completely different.

'Skiing is 90% outfit, 5% equipment, and 5% ability' -Lief Storer
Sep 27 2005 2:06PM
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Sugarloafer95
Posts: 333 - Karma: 10
Well, all I can say is thank you for not carrying it because I have shipped over 2 dozen pairs of Mantra's to just the Seirra region. As a shop worker you should realize that it isn't always about what you like, its what the people who are buying it like. I sold 8 pairs of 184cm's in the Spring and everyone of those people raved about the ski. I loved it, but maybe the reason you did not was the mounting point on it. Did you ski it on Volkl's mark or did you have it mounted back about 1.5cm which is actually were, in my opinion and many at Volkl's as well, the ski works the best. Thanks for the business.

Volkl Mantra
http://www.untracked.com/highlight-175704.html

Volkl Mantra w/Salomon S912 Ti's
http://www.untracked.com/highlight-176161.html

Volkl Mantra w/Fritschi Freerides (Wide Brake)
http://www.untracked.com/highlight-176078.html

As far as K2 skis being made in China, why don't you talk to your warranty person about what happened when we tried to have American's make them at Vashon Island. Wait, I will tell you, I had to ship about 30% of their skis back and about 50% of their boards. Since China takes more pride then we do in their craftsmenship, warranty is about .5% with production in China and even with shipping them over, they can mae the skis $20 cheaper. Gee let me see, higher quality product at a lower dollar, it does not take a businessman to make a decision on that one. Before you go blasting the Dogen, ask how many people are displeased with their Public Enemy's. Virtually the same ski, but stiffer for those who want an even better all mountain ski than the PE.


Sep 27 2005 6:05PM
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Tinga
Posts: 11349 - Karma: 2,333
can i just say im pro volkl and thats becuase ive ridden them and love them

"if all your friends jumped off a clif would you?" -my mom "i would if there was snow on it" -me
Sep 27 2005 6:22PM
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SquawMan
Posts: 214 - Karma: 14


virtual high five to Sugarloafer

Sep 27 2005 6:58PM
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Flynn
Posts: 1174 - Karma: 10
Just to clarify for myself incase anyone had any doubts.

I like volkl. And i realise that the reason the mantra is being produced is because more people will like it, than currently like the explosiv. Its just my personal preference to lean towards the explosiv between the two because im a hardass.

And the reason i was bringing up those points is because the title of the thread is "good bad or ugly". When people buy, they should realise the differences between the ski it is replacing, its advantages, and disadvantages. To some a sublety is a drastic change, to others that drastic change is just a sublety.

Conclusion, vollkl makes good skis. They always have.

Sep 27 2005 7:23PM
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grambo
Posts: 1125 - Karma: 93
Why did this guy say no Volkls have metal in them except the Allstar? Idiot.

Not to mention he wants to ski a 130mm waist for big mountain? wtf? Skiing steep sketchy lines bow legged would be awesome.

Sep 28 2005 2:10AM
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