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A consumer's gripe

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Triple_Strum
Posts: 6384 - Karma: 953
Why is it that companies think they can make a crappy product and charge out the wahzoo? This thread is mainly aimed at two companies: Oakley and Siver Cartel. First Oakley. When they really got into making quality outerwear is was SICK. This year I will be sporting the old Puffy pants and some Unobtainium pants. Lets exam these two: The puffy pants were originially 10,000 mm waterproofing, had like 8 pockets, all in sweet spots with super waterproof, taped seams and thick insulation. The last couple years, including this years, have 600 mm, near nothing! like cotton or something! They have less pockets, tear easily, and now they are a giant advertisement. Oh, and they are still the same price even though they suck now and were amazing then. The Unobtainium were definitely expensive to begin with, but the quality was phenonenal. Now Oakley makes $250 pants that only have like 6,000 mm (what they call Road Fuel) or 10,000 (Nitro Fuel). For crying out loud, Burton is making pants that are 10,000 with sick style for $140, $100 less for the same or better product. I could go on forever. And siver, do they not believe in waterproofing? I was checking out their site thinking "maybe I should give this stuff a try" until I realized it is all below 5,000. That is horrible!

Ahh, I am done for now, I feel better. All said and done I do realize people are trying to make money, and they are doing it well. I just wish we could get the same premium product and they could be happy with their absurd cash flow

I dream of winter.
Sep 8 2005 5:08PM
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Vicious
Posts: 3862 - Karma: 140
I completely agree Triple. I had the same response after looking at the Oakley and Siver sites when they were updated recently.

At first I thought some of the new Siver gear looked great, but a maximum of 5000mm is simply a waste...it's just not functional if you plan on being around snow.

Official NS Equipment Pimp aka E-Pimp

Jibij Pro Shop
www.jibij.com
Sep 8 2005 5:14PM
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Shadows
Posts: 8068 - Karma: 43
^it is for pros, and if pros wear it, so will the groms

Sep 8 2005 5:15PM
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jetski
Posts: 375 - Karma: 10
I have no experience with the Siver stuff but I full on agree with you that the big O makes crappy outer wear with super high prices. The styles are great but unless you get the stuff for cost not worth it.
Looking at cataloges of Siver the prices don't really match the water-proofing.
Just proves once more that image is everything and people will pay big bucks to look the part.

Sep 8 2005 5:17PM
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Lineskier-101
Posts: 7863 - Karma: 22
I agree with you 100%, although I do like this years puffy's, but I'm not going to get them because they're expensive.

----------------------------------------

'I always thought the funniest part about yearbook was that apparently some people bought it.' JD

05/06 Goals
-Learn Rails
-Learn 360's
-Learn DFD rail
-Learn Switch 360's
-Learn 540's
Sep 8 2005 5:18PM
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Vicious
Posts: 3862 - Karma: 140
Expensive + shitty waterproofing = Idiotic

Official NS Equipment Pimp aka E-Pimp

Jibij Pro Shop
www.jibij.com
Sep 8 2005 5:20PM
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acc
Posts: 4122 - Karma: 222
like triple strum said, oakley made the greatest outwear for a few years. their stuff was actually worth the money. then they decided to keep the prices while taking away the water resistance and all the perks. complete bs. for the athletes sake i hope all of their stuff is made better. i wouldn't be surprised if it isn't though with people like jon leaving the outerwear.

Sep 8 2005 5:20PM
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jibvermont
Posts: 910 - Karma: 10
uhh how bad is 5000 i mean honestly... do you get super soaked or is it like something that gets damp and heavy...

Sep 8 2005 5:26PM
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Lineskier-101
Posts: 7863 - Karma: 22
If you pay $280 for a coat, you shouldn't get "damp and heavy".

----------------------------------------

'I always thought the funniest part about yearbook was that apparently some people bought it.' JD

05/06 Goals
-Learn Rails
-Learn 360's
-Learn DFD rail
-Learn Switch 360's
-Learn 540's
Sep 8 2005 5:49PM
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Triple_Strum
Posts: 6384 - Karma: 953
^5,000 isn't great. Sure it is fine if you ski east coast and only park on dry days. But, even 5,000 gets wet if you sit in snow for a couple of minutes. And I don't even need to talk about wet pow...

I dream of winter.
Sep 8 2005 6:01PM
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jibster270
Posts: 1766 - Karma: 13
5000 is terrible out here in the east too. Unless it's a perfect 25 degree day where no snow is melting, good luck riding up the lift without getting soaked. Then while you try to ski for the rest of the day your all irratable and agitated because your ass is wet from sitting on the lift. I have the 686 smarty jacket and pants. The waterproofing on that shit is amazing and I love it.

--------------------------------------
To day I beat my previous record for consecutive days I've been alive.

-Ryan
Sep 8 2005 6:58PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
I buy what's cheap....too bad North Face stuff is soo damn spendy cause they have a few nice jackets!

because I like pooh.

hahaha stupid dolphins.
Sep 8 2005 7:09PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
The puffy pants are 4000/4000 this year. Not 600mm.

~~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~~

"Most guys know that women dig guys with money. Would Donald Trump be fucking models if he wasn't rich? That question is rhetorical. Now I don't even believe this is wrong, I think it is just nature. But I also think women who are this way (and it is almost all of you) should be honest and admit that they are basically whores, and stop saying bad things about the so-called "actual whores" who are just trying to earn an honest living."
Sep 8 2005 7:24PM
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Abscratch
Posts: 347 - Karma: 9
buy a cheap jacket and scotch gaurd the shit if you dont like stuff.

Sep 8 2005 7:28PM
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Triple_Strum
Posts: 6384 - Karma: 953
According to whom, J.D.? Not saying you are wrong, but on the sight it says they are Hydro Fuel, which has been their term for 600 mm waterproofing for 2 years now

I dream of winter.
Sep 8 2005 7:36PM
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jerad
Posts: 3236 - Karma: 47
i saw you had orage pants for sale? you wouldnt happen to have black orage pants in your endless pit of ski apparell? i just picked up a woodprint sgt orage masters jacket, and i want matching pants, thanks.

werd.
Sep 8 2005 8:26PM
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jerad
Posts: 3236 - Karma: 47
fuck, i meant to pm that to triple, not quote abstratch? haha shiiiiit

werd.
Sep 8 2005 9:07PM
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WIfreeskier
Posts: 8125 - Karma: 65
i'm right with you man still wearing the old puffy pants. I have the first ones in green, and they're fucking sick with tons of pockets, the dopest. I checked out a pair of last year's and they definitely didn't compare to these. Same with my jacket, i have the old hotplate puffy. i like the old stuff

=======================

don't take me for a joke, i'm no comedian. too many mental problems got me snortin' coke and smokin' weed again.
Sep 8 2005 9:10PM
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Triple_Strum
Posts: 6384 - Karma: 953
amen, WIFreeSkier, amen.

I dream of winter.
Sep 8 2005 9:17PM
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doGelyst
Posts: 2492 - Karma: 509
Older oakley stuff does kick ass, but mine is getting seriously thrashed. Newer oakley stuff is crap, so I'll probably just buy from "the snowboard brands". :)

-
oaktreely - Steamboat
Sep 8 2005 9:21PM
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00000000
Posts: 11075 - Karma: 82,508
i gotta agree with jd here...600 mm ? is that even possible on pants, like im sure a sheet of paper has more waterproofing

4000 mm makes much more sense, i could be wrong tho

_______________________________________
" This is newschoolers.com, it has nothing to do with skiing" -JibRemiX

"that's why i love ns. we all bash each other, but it's good times. good times indeed" -twix_182
Sep 9 2005 5:41AM
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Triple_Strum
Posts: 6384 - Karma: 953
and you are wrong :) Seriously, what do you think their "Hyrdo Fuel" is? The puffy jacket is the same POS this year too with 600 mm. I have a brand new pair of puffy pants from last year I can take a picture of the tag for you if you don't believe it. And that is exactly why I am complaining. They are selling a puffy jacket for almost three hundred dollars that is like kleenex

I dream of winter.
Sep 9 2005 6:35AM
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threejay
Posts: 2584 - Karma: 15
I know for a fact the first pair of puffy pants they made only had 2000mm waterproofing...They werent great back then either...Unobtaniums were awesome though.


http://www.freeiPods.com/?r=15321805
Go there if you want to help me out and get a free ipod yourself too. thanks.

Sep 9 2005 7:27AM
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SNWBDRHOON
Posts: 258 - Karma: 10
if you like the burton prices, buy burton.

Sep 9 2005 11:09AM
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bret
Posts: 2845 - Karma: 833
since all the NS equipment pimps are here in one thread, i figure this is a good time to ask if anyone knows the waterproofing on the onepiece this year?

not that it will affect my purchase cuz i'm getting it for next to nothing, i'm just curious to know what the waterproofing is.





my level of radness... it just can't... be quantified.
Sep 9 2005 11:57AM
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coldsmoke20
Posts: 239 - Karma: 108
I don't know about you guys but I would feel kinda guilty wearing Burton outerwear on skis. I know they have some of the most stylish clothes going but they are a snowboard company. Do you guys think its OK to wear Burton and be a skier? I don't know maybe its just me trying to support the ski industry.

Sep 9 2005 1:18PM
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bsmith01
Posts: 1639 - Karma: 43
Who cares man, just wear what you think looks goosd. Ive seen plenty of skiiers wear burton.

Sep 9 2005 1:29PM
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skier_boy26
Posts: 11295 - Karma: 502
my older 2x4 coat only had 2000mm waterproofing, and it did quite well, except in heavy rain.
although now, their stuff is way trendy and ugly. a couple years ago their stuff was oh so nice

Sep 9 2005 1:29PM
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Triple_Strum
Posts: 6384 - Karma: 953
example #39093465: http://oakley.com/o/o2342a The puffy jacket is only 600 mm waterproofing, like last year. You can get the Burton puffy, nice styling, for $20 less, with 15,000 mm! grrrr. You ask why I gripe so much? Because I want to support a company like Oakley that at least supports skier rather than Burton

I dream of winter.
Sep 9 2005 3:33PM
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doGelyst
Posts: 2492 - Karma: 509
If it comes down to getting something with good waterproofing, styling I like, and a good price, I will buy it no matter who makes it. I'm not going to compromise on what I am looking for "just to support the ski industry"

I have nothing against snowboarding, or the people who do it. As long as there is someone out there making quality outerwear that I like, that is who I will support, regardless of "who they make their clothing for"

-
oaktreely - Steamboat
Sep 9 2005 4:14PM
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bigkicker
Posts: 1270 - Karma: 87
i got planet earth pants with 10,000 waterproofing, for 50 bucks. If you want cheap outerwear that is good quality, you have to look at snowboard brands that have been around a while.




http://www.freesledding.homestead.com
Sep 9 2005 4:27PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
According to me who has tried them on, and looked at the tag, and seen "4000mm/4000g" on it. Also, I know a couple of people who have a pair. So if you need confirmation on that...

~~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~~

"Most guys know that women dig guys with money. Would Donald Trump be fucking models if he wasn't rich? That question is rhetorical. Now I don't even believe this is wrong, I think it is just nature. But I also think women who are this way (and it is almost all of you) should be honest and admit that they are basically whores, and stop saying bad things about the so-called "actual whores" who are just trying to earn an honest living."
Sep 9 2005 4:29PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
The jacket is also in the 1000s by the way, much better than the 2.4 from last year... I forget if it's 4k/4k or 6k/6k like the paratrooper. I seem to remember it being 4k. I don't know if I like the styling as much though, and it does feel kind of cheap (for the price) on the inside.

A lot of this year's stuff is HEAVY, but it feels solidly made. Of course this cuold only be determined through rigorous use, but it felt good to put on. The Axel jacket in particular, which is 10k. A lot of the pants are 10k/20k and about 350$ MSRP. They feel good to put on, although the ones I had on didn't quite fit me, but I didn't have an XL to try.

~~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~~

"Most guys know that women dig guys with money. Would Donald Trump be fucking models if he wasn't rich? That question is rhetorical. Now I don't even believe this is wrong, I think it is just nature. But I also think women who are this way (and it is almost all of you) should be honest and admit that they are basically whores, and stop saying bad things about the so-called "actual whores" who are just trying to earn an honest living."
Sep 9 2005 4:35PM
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Triple_Strum
Posts: 6384 - Karma: 953
thanks for the info JD. Perhaps they changed the ratings on the "fuel" line up? Because Hydro fuel always used to be 600, I guess they changed it to 4000?

I dream of winter.
Sep 9 2005 4:51PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,687
I dont know if any of you have tried the siver gear at all but I wore the paints last year and I stayed dry even in wet spring pow. and they only hade 3000 so Im happy with the gear even if it is only labled 3000.

-*-*-*-*-*-*~*-*-*-*-*
and yes we're talking about dashlonge, da shlong, dash longe, ...his full name is dashielle. just like mike is michael, steve = steven, dick = richard. figure it out kids. you can't be spoon fed your whole lives.
-shradical

Got a sister

This is the result of controled substances in widespread use.-Dave Berry.

-a smart man should be able to spell a word at least two ways -Thomas Jefferson
Sep 9 2005 6:23PM
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wuestinator
Posts: 2394 - Karma: 15
now you know why im buying burton gear.



sanctioned outerwear - http://www.sanctionedouterwear.com
Sep 9 2005 6:49PM
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AKFREERIDE
Posts: 1718 - Karma: 11
600mm?????? thats insane. wtf were they thinking. long johns would block wetness better.

AK Pride

Want to Buy some Pocket Rockets? hit me up.
Sep 12 2005 12:10AM
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Pklink04
Posts: 5608 - Karma: 392
you know what, guys, people still buy the crappy product, so the company wont give a shit if the product sucks as long as the money comes in from kids buyin ti



You know you have the coolest cab driver when he says, 'And we're off like a prom dress.'
Sep 12 2005 3:41PM
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SNWBDRHOON
Posts: 258 - Karma: 10
i don't feel guilty when i get it for free.

Sep 12 2005 7:29PM
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BakerBoy
Posts: 1123 - Karma: 18
Just for comparison, Gore-tex XCR 3-ply is 45,000mm waterproofness, and Gore-tex classic is 28,000mm waterproofness. So when people are shitting all over Siver's 5,000, you'd better believe it.

Sep 12 2005 9:14PM
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skibum193
Posts: 3737 - Karma: 33
are you serious!!!??? i had a goretex jacket for 3 years, and it definately wasnt that waterproof. maybe its a lot better now. i just got last years oaklye mace jacket, which is 10,000 waterproff, and 20,000 breathable. which is good


i rock the pow like none other
Sep 12 2005 10:12PM
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BakerBoy
Posts: 1123 - Karma: 18
Yes, I'm serious... http://www.ellis-brigham.com/performance-fabrics-glossary.htm

And no, your Oakley shit has TERRIBLE ratings... When something is more breathable then waterproof, that means the pores open to let water vapor out more than they can withstand vater droplets penetrating it. In simple terms, the hotter you get, the wetter you will get -- the breathabilty makes it WORSE! That's why everybody in the PNW rocks Gore, and Sessions is so popular. You can get a pair of steezy GT pants for not much more than $100...

Sep 12 2005 10:59PM
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skibum193
Posts: 3737 - Karma: 33
^shit man. thanks for the info. im gonna have to get me some sessions stuff. sorry for the ignorance


i rock the pow like none other
Sep 12 2005 11:15PM
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