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Skiers don't have any control.

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Detective
Posts: 2545 - Karma: 59
It has become pretty clear that this year especially skiers don't have any control over their status with a company. It's all about to change with Armada I hope, but the past two years have been a junk show for treatment.

In many other sports the athlete says jump and the sponsor says how high. This is the case with a few athletes, but not many in skiing. The trickle down for a lot of other sports is way larger. Why?? I honestly don't know, maybe people just don't give a fuck about skiing? Maybe the market research is that this 'revolution' is a fad. I hope thats not the way it is, I know I'm gonna keep doing it.

The usual excuse from a sponsor is 'budget cuts' or some other similar money bullshit line. Why are there so many 'budget' cuts in a sport that is aparently booming at an exponential rate. For the first time in years whistler/blackcomb season passes were at more skiers than snowboarders. Clearly the sport really is growing, each one of those people has to buy equipment at one point or another. The money MUST be there. Is it all a ploy to keep control and scrape dollars here and there? who knows, but as long as people are informed that athletes deserve better treatment and deserve not to be the objects that they maintimes are...we can make this work.

Here are a couple cases which stand out.

Chris Turpin had a good season wouldnt you say? wsi champion (everyone knows this), us open finalist, featured in volume stereotype, article in freeze tons of published shots a million other things. You would think someone that gets that kind of publicity and essentially thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars for a company would have a fairly solid place there. As you all know this is not the case. Turpin got injured and miraculously line's 'budget' was cut.

Another athlete whom I will not mention had a very good relationship with the biggest company in eyewear and getting bigger in clothing ( you take a guess who) and this person got an offer from another company of 5 TIMES what that original company offered for that season. This person really liked their original company and gave them the opourtunity to counter offer and said that they would sign if they offered half of what the other company offered. Since this company felt so big, they wouldn't do it. this person now has a new eyewear sponsor and is in my opinion a major loss for the first company.

These two members of the freesking community are at the very top I assure you, and yet none of them are safe. I don't think we even need to talk about the way mike douglas was messed around with.

So what do we need? We need more Armada's. We need more companies in general that aren't out to make the biggest dollar but are making stuff because they like what they are doing. It will be interesting to see how the season goes for Armada and how the attitudes change when the skiers stop taking this bullshit.
______________________________________

'I don't know why I come to this fucking place, the kids are such assholes' - Anthony B
Sep 23 2002 6:29PM
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Nine_Milla_Killa
Posts: 6783 - Karma: 23
Things will get better guys. Its not liek Snowboarding was like it is today overnight, which is basicly where we are in newschool skiing. There are only 2 companies that cater to us. Consider all the other ones as old school companies, they will never completely support us like Line and Armada. But more companies will develop. We also need more clothing companies like Siver. Bonfire or 4 square will probably never sponsor skiers.

_________________________
I write messages on money.
It's my own form of social protest.
A letter printed on paper that no one will destroy, passed indiscriminately across race, class and gender lines, and written in the blood that keeps the beast alive.
A quiet little hijacking on the way to the check-out counter.
And a federal crime.
I hope that someone will find my message one day when they really need it, like I do.
'You are not a slave'
Sep 24 2002 11:54PM
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SmoothBourquein
Posts: 278 - Karma: 28
Why just sit her and say 'Things will get better' they wont if we dont do anything!!! Of course things are happening to ensure the survival of freeskiing. Which would be multitudes of small rider owned companies and freeride teams. Some of my friends started the appearel company freezing point www.fp32.com and it is the most influential factors in freeskiing in our area. Me and a few guys are starting another company that's soul purpose is to raise money to sponsor its freeride team.
These are the things that must be done for the sport. I encourage anyone with any ambition to get some friends together and start your company for your freeride team. This is how we will be defined, and these are the things that big sponsors will see to know that freeskiers are serious about their sport!
Sep 25 2002 10:27AM
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cko
Posts: 1869 - Karma: 32
You bring up a good point, in that, because our industry is in its infancy there are openings for new companies there is money to be made (we all have to make a living right?). So yes, I would support anyone that is thinking of starting a company who's goal is to advance the state of newschool skiing. If you're in it solely for the money, good luck with that.

ck
Sep 25 2002 10:47AM
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svwingnut
Posts: 238 - Karma: 10
Good shit you guys. This has to be one of the most intelligent threads in the history of NS. Frodeo makes a very good point. The ski industry is supported by the joe-blow public...the 'posers' as a lot of us call them. But most of those people aren't going to purchase from Line or Armada. This makes it very hard to become a big company that can carry big contracts.

Salad is what Food eats. -LoKash
Sep 25 2002 12:35PM
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stixonmtholly
Posts: 822 - Karma: 10
I have to agree with skierX, Skiing to the outside person is a dangerous, expensive way to go out and freeze your ass off. Skiing is only for the rich folks who buy new stuff every year and book the various massive resorts during the x-mas holidays. I think and also thank the newschool skiing scene for bring skiing to the young less economically endowned. Sure you see alot of wealthy folks out skiing, but how many times a year do they ski, one week out of the year at snowmass or vail. The hard core folks are in the park every chance they get. So I think being patient will bring everything to new heights. Just ski your ass off every chance you get and let everyone know your not just carvin but your newschoolin. Have children and get them skiing.
Sep 25 2002 2:25PM
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ColoradoFlats
Posts: 2467 - Karma: 23
good point....i think it will happen. sooner than later.
Sep 25 2002 2:55PM
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cko
Posts: 1869 - Karma: 32
I'd just like to add one more quick thing: I, and many others, have mentioned being patient in waiting for this niche (for now) industry to develop. I still think this is true but we also have to work hard at the same time. So, support the companies you believe in and one day it will happen.
Sep 25 2002 3:28PM
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LifeJacket
Posts: 2665 - Karma: 61
True Chris,

good point

loyality




'I'm still Ugly'
Sep 25 2002 3:47PM
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girl_jibBer
Posts: 761 - Karma: 14
TO a lot of us (especially on this website), skiing is what we live for. We move to resort towns and spend every living moment eating, sleeping and breathing skiing. We also know how much money we spend on our 'habit'....but we are a small minority. Think about it. On average, the ordinary Joe Blow will probably only buy new skiis every 3-4 years, buy a new suit every couple years....and come on, how many of us have seen people in the lift lines wearing 1970 goggles? Yes, it may seem that ski companies make a lot of money, and some like Atomic and Salomon do (look at their pro teams and the other products they market). But smaller companies, such as Line, probably don't make that much overhead.
To those of us who are trying to make it pro, skiing has become a business or a job. It pays the bills. Unfortunately, unless you are Mike D (who has a lot of influence with Salomon, there is probably little chance of you moving up within a ski company. If it's a problem and you think you should be making thousands of dollars, then go back to school and get a good paying job, so you can support your habit. Remember...skiing is not the NHL or the NFL....and it probably will never reach the status of these sports. I think we were all pissed with the baseball strike...cursing of athletes who were asking too much money to play a sport they love. Let's hope skiing never comes to this.


The troll stole my Santa!
Sep 25 2002 4:07PM
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rodeo-nexis
Posts: 572 - Karma: 13
Reedy, you know I'll fight with you till the bitter end; tooth and nail. Blackslap that ass like Shaq, uns




• Blind my insight and dull the common sense
Give me inner vision, kill the superstition and the confidence •
Sep 25 2002 5:56PM
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ColoradoFlats
Posts: 2467 - Karma: 23
the only difference with baseball is that I really think they don't give a shit about the sport and just money. This has happened way to many times and I've decided that after enough time, anyone would become greedy in a sport that pays a single athlete more at one at bat than most of us make in 20 years....it's just become quit rediculous if you ask me.
Sep 25 2002 6:10PM
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castlerock
Posts: 1096 - Karma: 11
reedy, you should be writing for a living, not skiing

~Chris

You know something that would really make me applaud? A guy gets stuck in quicksand, then sinks, then suddenly comes shooting out, riding on water skis. How do they do that?
Sep 25 2002 6:11PM
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svwingnut
Posts: 238 - Karma: 10
Yeah Yeah. Let's see Reedy and Jermey fight. Reedy's bigger but J-man is pretty quick....It'll be a good one....haha.
Like CKO said...be patient and if you see an opportunity, grab it. You may feel like you can't do anything, but if you pool your resources with your buddies and put forth the effort you'll have an effect. Look at this website.

Salad is what Food eats. -LoKash
Sep 25 2002 7:35PM
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NMA
Posts: 314 - Karma: 37
It's starting: anyone heard of 4FRNT skis yet?
Sep 25 2002 7:55PM
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RiverRipper
Posts: 700 - Karma: 9
You all make valid points but dont try to make Line seem like a bad company. They kept Skogen and Mike on while they both were out for a season. Skogen busted himself in a non skiing accident to, some companies probably have clauses in the contract that if you hurt yourself doing other activities they can void it. Jay L, puts his life into company. He was taking out loans to put ads in magazines not too long ago. Tell me that if he needs to take a loan out to buy an ad he can afford to pay all the athletes what the truly deserve.
Another oversite of your arguement is that there are a ton of kids who are just a few steps behind to replace them. Look at last year who won a lot of events, unknown...or very little known about skiers. Reedy, until you made the cover of Freeze I am sure a lot of kids who idolize JP and JF had no clue who you were.
Not too many years ago the top pro's barely made enough to live off of. There were only a few guys who were comfortable and didnt have to work jobs at night or during the summer to support their skiing. Skiing has come a long way but still can make a lot of improvements.
Having X-pros as team managers is good in theory but I dont believe many of them would be especially good at it. Sure Mike D, Shane S, and guys like that who have some business sense too would be good at it. But just cause someone was a great skier once doesnt mean they will run a team well at all. I think skiers need agents more than a decent team manager...not agents like basketball ones but someone who knows skiing and what it involves. Your best defense against getting screwed by a company is a well written contract...if you sign your life and likeness away you better be getting some assurances that you cant be scrapped if you take a hard hit at a shoot.


A brave man will not live forever but a coward will never live.
Sep 25 2002 8:09PM
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NMA
Posts: 314 - Karma: 37
Good points River. There are always better and worse options with any job. I will take a skier over a trained marketer frequently. It matters to me that Gutt - k2 - can jump into a demo and do a trick. But more important is that he can bridge the gap between his product managers, his bosses and guys like Pep and Turpin.

PS. Skogen got hurt doing a media event - filming for the X-Games - which all of his sponsors requested that he do.
Sep 25 2002 11:45PM
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cko
Posts: 1869 - Karma: 32
I agree mostly with what River said but I thing when people said they were looking for ex-athletes to become team managers, they basically just want someone that has knowledge of the scene/industry and can help progress it. Mike Gutt is the best example that I know of as Nate pointed out above. I have had the priveledge to talk with him and, in my opinion, he is excellent at his job because he is open to new ideas and directions for the sport. He has a vision and is working hard to achieve it. We need more people like that working with us.
Sep 26 2002 12:15AM
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ESB
Posts: 9274 - Karma: 10,653
This thread has enlightened me to many things... thank you all. But don't make the mistake of thinking that skiing is the only sport with such troubles.

And I think it's damn funny that someone thinks that Kobe Bryant had it bad off getting dumped by Adidas. Gosh... he's making about 5 million less now? Whatever will the man do? He'll starve for christssake....

yeah, I think Kobe's salary and sponsorships, divided up, could support 50 of the world's top freeskiers.

'Our society places a supreme value on control, on hiding what you feel. It mocks primitive culture and prides itself on the suppression of natural instincts and impulses.' - Jim Morrison
Sep 26 2002 12:40AM
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gauntlet1260
Posts: 370 - Karma: 12
skiing is tha shit!
Sep 26 2002 3:45PM
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SmoothBourquein
Posts: 278 - Karma: 28
AW MAN, any sport that has grown men playing with balls is shit. I have lost all respect for all major sports accept for hockey, especially baseball. Never before have people making tens of millions a year GONE ON STRIKE. Jesus fucking crist how much do they think theyre poor ass talents are worth!?!?! How much harder and more dangerous do you think it is to do a dspin over a 120ft gap(Thovex) than to hit a 8 once ball 400ft.

But dont worry the only reason the old sports are still around is because theyve been around for along time. And they are loosing popularity and even thought the extreme sports world is a hunderedth the size of the old sports world we're growing a hundered times faster. So just keep pushing the envolope and we will conquer the world.

Pretty soon the only super bowls people will know about are the ones you ski in!!!!
Oct 4 2002 3:12PM
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Detective
Posts: 2545 - Karma: 59
look at me, im ripping!
_________________________________________________________

Did you know the pen is stronger than the knife. And did you know that they can kill you once but they cant kill you twice. Did you know destruction of the flesh is not the ending of life, fear not of the anti christ. Did you know that I exist before the earth and did you know that I exist before the earth...Your body is just a vehicle transporting the soul, it whats inside the vehicle is beauty to behold...It was written up in the book of life.
Oct 8 2002 2:55PM
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matthasaurusrex
Posts: 5160 - Karma: 185
.

I wish I were a Llama
The Mauii HipppyCrew
Jun 23 2005 4:25PM
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E-ZRider
Posts: 1791 - Karma: 13
Very well put detection these ski companies are booming right now and they say they are making budget cuts what the fuck is up with that they are making more money than God himself is Bullshit I say

I Love Head


Momentum Session 4
Jun 23 2005 4:41PM
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jtski
Posts: 805 - Karma: 21
who is this detective asshole and why does he think he knows so much

G R I P S E T
Jun 23 2005 5:13PM
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matthasaurusrex
Posts: 5160 - Karma: 185
jon reedy, and if you dont know who he is then leave.

I wish I were a Llama
The Mauii HipppyCrew
Jun 23 2005 5:17PM
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jtski
Posts: 805 - Karma: 21
never heard of him. sounds like an asshole

G R I P S E T
Jun 23 2005 5:22PM
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twix_182
Posts: 9248 - Karma: 27
this threas is like 3 years old

Take me to your special place Close your eyes, show me your face.....I'm gonna piss on it
Jun 23 2005 5:26PM
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matthasaurusrex
Posts: 5160 - Karma: 185
cheak out ready fire aim, and hes not an asshole

I wish I were a Llama
The Mauii HipppyCrew
Jun 23 2005 5:34PM
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freeskier1316
Posts: 1771 - Karma: 27
first off kobe bryant was cut by adidas cuz of his rape case ever notice why lebron is doing sprite commercials now and not kobe


'kevin whyed nils pull you out?' 'Cuz i was touchin bitches.' 'No seriously why did he put scott in for you.' 'Scott doesn't touch bitches.'

Viva Candide
Jun 23 2005 6:11PM
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edmonton_skier
Posts: 3210 - Karma: 110
he was talking about justin timberlake DUH

Y-vez
Jun 23 2005 6:12PM
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aznpcskier
Posts: 1250 - Karma: 113
why bring this back, why?

Jun 23 2005 6:17PM
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Girays_Brother
Posts: 13973 - Karma: 1,636
word, speakith the truth bro, and that is where we are heading, clothing, headwear, poles, and skis are coming up with more independant companies and i cant wait to see boots, goggles, and coats do the same

I HATE NY PRODUCTION

- BOGART!!!!!!!!
Jun 23 2005 6:19PM
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edmonton_skier
Posts: 3210 - Karma: 110
yeah man boots would be sweet id love to have boots under 500 freeking dollars like boarder boots are cheaper times a milion (altough this had nothing to do with what your talking about)

Y-vez
Jun 23 2005 6:26PM
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novel
Posts: 420 - Karma: 10
i agree with everything you said. sponsership is a fucking scam. I say people's dream shoul dnot to be a pro skier, but just to have fun and not fuck everything up by getting in a deal with a company.

-Chuffed.
-trust it.
Jun 23 2005 8:09PM
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mommy
Posts: 12072 - Karma: 59
jon reedy can do 720 degree spins inside and outside of the halfpipe. he can even do them off of a grassy knoll with his tennis shoes on!

Jun 24 2005 8:44AM
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papasteeze
Posts: 12055 - Karma: 915
At 43 - I picked Line Darksides for the all mountain character, it doesn't do anything really well but it can do everything great! This season I added reactors to them and I am estatic with the set up. I can't count the number of skis I have had - but I can tell you I promote the newer generation of skis, Armada, Line because they listen and build the products that are the emerging trends faster than the big guys.

Snowboarding, it's here to stay, but watch the popularity start to diminish, not over night, but over time. (I think it is starting to wane now) I rode for 10 yrs and returned to my skiing roots. Other riders will be doing the same soon. That's just a prediction.

As far as this thread, it's simple economics guys, the laws of supply and demand. Lots of talented skiers to be bought cheap. If they were managed or organized in a group.......... Ah!!! what am I saying? I sold my kid to Armada for a pair of skis!

Sign in @ www.paskiandride.com for info on PA Skiing.
Jun 24 2005 10:00AM
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ThisAngelicRage
Posts: 8681 - Karma: 54
good old thread right here...




-Lauren

THE LAB.
Jun 24 2005 8:50PM
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Ahmets_Brother
Posts: 20283 - Karma: 5,931
yarrr steve the pirate wouldnt take that shit

member 9020 newbies are our future unless if we stop them now! BOGART!!
Jun 24 2005 9:02PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,145
A perfect example of old NS versus new... from the older days, a great post from a great skier, intelligent discussion about the industry from people who, at least at that point, cared, and RESPECT. From the newer, mentally deficient kids like Jon Ellerman making retards of themselves by ripping on people for no reason and proudly declaring their own ignorance, kids whose only connection to the industry is what cool core gear/clothing they want to buy (missing the entire point of a good post by Iberg), the bulk of which are offset by the other half of the comments in the thread which are either meaningless drivel or declarations that the thread has been bumped (REALLY?! Thanks for the heads up). And what's the response to this likely to be?

"Shut the fuck up".

Inspired.

I'm leaving. I've noticed all I have cause to do here is complain lately. Until there start to be insightful posts and threads on NS again, from more than 2% of the membership (that's a generous estimate), there's no reason to contribute anything. Peace

Jun 24 2005 9:14PM
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ThisAngelicRage
Posts: 8681 - Karma: 54
live long be prosper jd




-Lauren

THE LAB.
Jun 24 2005 9:20PM
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skogenjake
Posts: 6685 - Karma: 511
WTF I TYPED SOMETHING LONGER THAN REEDYS AND MENINGFUL AND MY COMPUTER LIKE REFRESHED DAMMIT! CAN I GET THAT BACK???




back to the original
Jun 24 2005 10:35PM
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skogenjake
Posts: 6685 - Karma: 511
damnit! what were my major points? that the skiing industry is small and always has been this way because its not as avalible to the public as the consistently televised basketball or football. hence the money generated from those sports is millions more than skiing. skiing can only be done in the mts. and costs (in relation to buying a soccer ball and being set) tons of money. it isnt redily avalible. people didnt grow up skiing every day. so the interest is alot less. we cant expect to get much larger. freeskiing will get larger and hopefully become an equal with snowboarding. that is a more realistic goal than becomming a larger industry that can afford to pay riders hundreds of thousands of dollars.

and as you may have noticed, the larger companies, such as rossignol, are ALSO having insane struggles with money. was rossignol (i think i was rossi, its late, i could be wrong) just bought out? yes. if a company is fighting trying to be sold to some larger company, do you think they are making riders top priority. no gigantic company out there trying to buy armada becuase it cant afford to pay its riders amazing salaries and is all around losing money. they dont care because they CANT care. they are struggling too...

and dont we have an excessive number of indie ski companies as it is? one more WONT attract any new business. alot of the ones out there now are failing to do that. armada and line are successful because they started into the game earlier and had massive support. i cant name 1 person sponsered by DB skis, but i can name many from armadas. line's team got me into skiing for gods sake. which is why they have gone under yet. when a rider is sponsered, i believe the company should provide free skis and merch, as long as connections with filming companys and magazine companys. but paying a rider should happen if that rider goes out of his or her way to represent the company. from doing those ads or competing in that televised competiton, giving the company business deserves that paycheck. a rider should be paid well if he/she deserves it. but greed is always a factor. when a rider gives some execs an ultamaidium-pay more or ill leave- waht do you think they will do? i know turpin was out there repping and winning comps, but the companys just cant afford to put more money into a rider if they dont have any to throw around. candide being an exception because apparetly he is giving a company tons of business they cant get with another pro. so yeah, skiers dont have any control, but do you honestly believe that with such a small and poor industry, that they will? and skiing isnt going to develop into an activity where they will either, its just not avalible enough.


ugh what i typed before was written alot better. i hate when it refreshes like that.




back to the original
Jun 24 2005 10:59PM
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guddgulf17
Posts: 3037 - Karma: 10
We have control over where we spend our money. If you stop supporting greedy unprogressive companies, they will lose money. I don't think this is all that complicated.

David

Park City Water Ramps- July 10th-17th
What will you do with your summer?

Girls just don't understand boners...-skifiend

"You may be right, I may be crazy. But it just may be a lunatic you're looking for"-Billy Joel

Montana- Snow through September!
Jun 24 2005 11:39PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
Don't hate on Armada you dirty Trog.


nornornornornornornornornornorn ornornornornornornornornornorno rnornornornornornornornornornor nornor nonornornornornornornornor nornornorno rnornornornornornor rnornornornornornornornornornor nornornornornornornornornornorn ornornornornornornornornornorno rnornornornornornornornornornor nornornornornornornornornornorn ornornornornornornornornornorno rnornornornornornornornornornor nornornornornornornornornornorn ornornornornornornornornornorno rnornornornornornornornornornor nornornornornornornornornornor
Jun 25 2005 2:40AM
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strode
Posts: 7549 - Karma: 14
i think ellermann was kidding, but even so, blatant sarcasm is still disrespectful in a thread like this.

it's good to see that, three years after this thread was made, there really are more companies supporting their athletes (at least i should hope so). armada is a big force, 4frnt gives their riders stake in the company, line is progressing ski concepts at a rapid rate, and even smaller companies are still in the game too. as far as the treatment of their non-top-notch athletes/sponsorees, i don't know. but i sure don't hear too many kids on here bitching about their sponsors at the moment, so things can't be all bad out there.







-Strode
Jun 25 2005 3:38AM
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papasteeze
Posts: 12055 - Karma: 915
Positive, agressive enthusiasm will get you the most - snide "the world owes me" will get you very little..

Sign in @ www.paskiandride.com for info on PA Skiing.
Jun 26 2005 8:25PM
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DaveHumphrey
Posts: 1758 - Karma: 82
wow i jsut read that

*************************************
ski ing is like sex. its hard and fun and you keep getting better at it.
Jun 26 2005 8:29PM
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Tross
Posts: 951 - Karma: 117
I think the original point to Reedy's post was the lack of rider involvement in companies. Would Salomon be that bad if they made tons of money, but switched stances on their involvement in the industry to freeskiing? I was talking w/ one of the K2 riders just few weeks ago about his level of actual input in the company and his ski. He said K2 really listens to him and lets him make changes to his ski as needed. Not like other companies where the pro models are not much different under the laminate from their best-selling park ski.

A lot has changed since this thread started a couple of years ago. I think some of larger companies are starting to listen. We haven't really seen how much Candide has made an impact at Rossi, but I feel in the coming seasons we'll see that impact. Sadly, I think we need these large (none-core) companies to keep marketing freeskiing to other areas of skiing to attract their money.

Jun 26 2005 8:48PM
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johnnypsunami
Posts: 5024 - Karma: 221
best post ive read in a long long time.


'wow....ATLANTASKI should be dragged behind a truck at 90mp/h over rusty razorblades, stabbed multiple times with ice picks, raped up the bum-bum by rabid gorillas and then shot....'-big_white_hucker
Jun 26 2005 10:32PM
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parkbuilder
Posts: 494 - Karma: 36
THis is the thread that just wont die

Jun 27 2005 8:53AM
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