It looks like you are using an ad blocker. That's okay. Who doesn't? But without advertising revenue, we can't keep making this site awesome. Click the link below for instructions on disabling adblock.
Welcome to the Newschoolers forums! You may read the forums as a guest, however you must be a registered member to post.
Register to become a member today!
I feel like these 10$/hr resort wages force employees to either sell drugs or steal shit to make enough to get by. I dont think resorts would go under if they did their employees a solid and bumped them up to 15 bucks. Its not that much but every dollar added to 10$/hr makes a big difference.
resorts would not go under, but prices would ultimately go up for the end user.
once expectation is set for a certain level of profitability, there is no scenario where a resort would willfully increase the cost of their labor and not also increase price to compensate for it. for any resort that is owned and managed by a publicly listed company (VAIL Resorts Inc, MTN), they are at the mercy of creating value for shareholders.
here's how the dynamic works for a publicly traded company that needs to manage to the fiscal quarter... when the report earnings for a period, they issue "guidance" to the market on what they will do for revenue & profit. the analysts that follow the company will then issue estimates, the average of which becomes "consensus." if the company meets or exceeds guide and consensus, share price goes up. if the company misses, share price goes down. this is an overly simplistic view of the dynamic because there are secular and macro forces that also drive share price, but this is the jist of it. once a company like VAIL establishes a history of a certain profit-margin or a history of valuation at a certain multiple, any deviation from that (barring one-time influences) will decrease their value. increasing wages when they have no real need to is the sign of being bad operators.
should they pay employees a living wage...? probably. will they ever do that...? no, barring a mass-exodus of cheap labor.
It depends on the area, but in general the min wage in the nation is behind. In mtn towns absolutely. Some states have higher minimum wage but even then people are pretty priced out. In the states where it's lower, good luck if you're in a mountain town.
I feel like people look at it as a small store with a few employees paying them a bunch more. Labor is expensive but ski areas have to shell out a ton of money for electricity, insurance, new and maintaining machines/lifts/buildings etc.
There is def an issue in some of these towns when many workers would get a very significant wage getting a fast food job over a ski industry job. The cost of living and wages are all over the places around the country, but it's pretty obvious that in the bigger mountains towns things are straight up fucked. Places are already gouging prices pretty hard, they wouldn't have to rape people too much more to cover some small increases in wages, and as mentioned ski areas costs are not just wages. Will places be trying to step up and make a change any time soon? Probably not. I think or at least hope they'll come up though. At least some of the smaller mountains are paying more reasonable wages to grab people from the larger hills and bring them to the smaller ones.
There are problems at any resort of any size, but shit is pretty beat in the ski industry right now. As more people are moving up from the cities or buying a second home, people are getting insanely priced out. Some of these towns have new housing coming in, but many times more luxury housing.
Something def needs to change on the housing end and the wages, and many places are years behind on even a temporary solution. Interested to see what happens though.
If the fed min wage goes up, which it probably will. Good people might start moving to those smaller towns where they can make the same wage and have a much lower cost of living. Resorts in mtn town usa will probably continue to struggle to find good employees on shit wages and bandaid upon bandaid will continue.
It depends on the area, but in general the min wage in the nation is behind. In mtn towns absolutely. Some states have higher minimum wage but even then people are pretty priced out. In the states where it's lower, good luck if you're in a mountain town.
I feel like people look at it as a small store with a few employees paying them a bunch more. Labor is expensive but ski areas have to shell out a ton of money for electricity, insurance, new and maintaining machines/lifts/buildings etc.
There is def an issue in some of these towns when many workers would get a very significant wage getting a fast food job over a ski industry job. The cost of living and wages are all over the places around the country, but it's pretty obvious that in the bigger mountains towns things are straight up fucked. Places are already gouging prices pretty hard, they wouldn't have to rape people too much more to cover some small increases in wages, and as mentioned ski areas costs are not just wages. Will places be trying to step up and make a change any time soon? Probably not. I think or at least hope they'll come up though. At least some of the smaller mountains are paying more reasonable wages to grab people from the larger hills and bring them to the smaller ones.
There are problems at any resort of any size, but shit is pretty beat in the ski industry right now. As more people are moving up from the cities or buying a second home, people are getting insanely priced out. Some of these towns have new housing coming in, but many times more luxury housing.
Something def needs to change on the housing end and the wages, and many places are years behind on even a temporary solution. Interested to see what happens though.
If the fed min wage goes up, which it probably will. Good people might start moving to those smaller towns where they can make the same wage and have a much lower cost of living. Resorts in mtn town usa will probably continue to struggle to find good employees on shit wages and bandaid upon bandaid will continue.
I think guaranteeing all employees have a roof over their head would be more beneficial. I think by law ski areas should have to offer employee housing and every employee should get their own bedroom. All mountains should have massive dorms for them and shit.
Also Vail should face a class action lawsuit for not extending employee discount to alcohol like they do with food.
It will never happen, in fact the ski industry lobbies for their employees to be classified as agricultural workers so they have even less rules for fair pay.
The only thing you'll get is corporate welfare disguised as affordable housing.
Damn. I guess a federal min wage increase to 15/hr is the best tohope for. Living on 10/hr in a mountain town with no employee housing is probably part of the reason so many ski bums kill themselves.
Everyone should be getting 15$/hr...Federal minimum wage hasn't gone up in 10 years. Most resorts should be paying higher than that considering cost of living in resort towns.
I wish public schools taught more about how businesses operate, and what it takes to operate something successful.
To those thinking that low level employees are being shafted by the CEO's greed - an employer pays much more in insurance and taxes than what the employee receives. Payroll is likely to be the highest business expense at Vail, even if Katz's pay is dissolved completely into the 15,000ish employees on payroll, if spread evenly each employee would likely to receive less than an extra $150 annually.
BiffbarfI wish public schools taught more about how businesses operate, and what it takes to operate something successful.
To those thinking that low level employees are being shafted by the CEO's greed - an employer pays much more in insurance and taxes than what the employee receives. Payroll is likely to be the highest business expense at Vail, even if Katz's pay is dissolved completely into the 15,000ish employees on payroll, if spread evenly each employee would likely to receive less than an extra $150 annually.
Besides the fact that your numbers are off and the actual amount would be around $225, why is the personal greed of 1 millionaire being put above the needs of 15 thousand that are the very means by which the company creates any value? Vail would be nothing without these people.
Let me know how the boot tastes down their if you have time to stop licking it
K-Dot.Besides the fact that your numbers are off and the actual amount would be around $225, why is the personal greed of 1 millionaire being put above the needs of 15 thousand that are the very means by which the company creates any value? Vail would be nothing without these people.
Let me know how the boot tastes down their if you have time to stop licking it
My numbers are not off. You are correct in that they would have 225 annually to spend on each employee, but due to payroll taxes and insurance the employee would get much less.
K-Dot.Besides the fact that your numbers are off and the actual amount would be around $225, why is the personal greed of 1 millionaire being put above the needs of 15 thousand that are the very means by which the company creates any value? Vail would be nothing without these people.
Let me know how the boot tastes down their if you have time to stop licking it
BiffbarfI wish public schools taught more about how businesses operate, and what it takes to operate something successful.
To those thinking that low level employees are being shafted by the CEO's greed - an employer pays much more in insurance and taxes than what the employee receives. Payroll is likely to be the highest business expense at Vail, even if Katz's pay is dissolved completely into the 15,000ish employees on payroll, if spread evenly each employee would likely to receive less than an extra $150 annually.
Every time you turn on the compressors for snowmaking that's several thousand dollars with the press of a button. Nobody is saying rich people are bad and should give handouts but the situation where employees cant afford housing and food, it does seem excessive. Not like they're giving bargain deals on the mountain or anything.
theabortionatorInflation has significantly impacted the prices of housing food etc. Not sure where you're gonna go with this but damn.
theabortionatorEvery time you turn on the compressors for snowmaking that's several thousand dollars with the press of a button. Nobody is saying rich people are bad and should give handouts but the situation where employees cant afford housing and food, it does seem excessive. Not like they're giving bargain deals on the mountain or anything.
My whole point is, legislating higher minimum wages or other regulations will only further inflation and the purchasing power of little guys will remain low.
If the little guys want to be paid fairly, becoming unionized and standing up as a collective is the only way it will happen. If all people do is complain online and act in singularity, turnover will occur as it does already and your job will be replaced before you leave or the expectations will be raised for the people who choose to stay.
I'm probably not going to change any minds, and that's ok. The ski industry is a weird one and tbh I'm just blowing smoke at this point. It would be really interesting the hear from some 'big' small business guys if they're not too scared to chime in on this.
BiffbarfMy whole point is, legislating higher minimum wages or other regulations will only further inflation and the purchasing power of little guys will remain low.
If the little guys want to be paid fairly, becoming unionized and standing up as a collective is the only way it will happen. If all people do is complain online and act in singularity, turnover will occur as it does already and your job will be replaced before you leave or the expectations will be raised for the people who choose to stay.
I'm probably not going to change any minds, and that's ok. The ski industry is a weird one and tbh I'm just blowing smoke at this point. It would be really interesting the hear from some 'big' small business guys if they're not too scared to chime in on this.
You could say $5 an hour is fine now with current costs because if they raise it it will only impact prices. There is a real relationship but the wage has not kept up with the cost of living at all.
And the ski industry is stuggling to fill roles now, stuggling to house employees or find people that can find housing that want to work there.
But they're slow to change. Then there are meetings and calls about trying to keep staff from constantly leaving. But people are still paid like shit.
Also there is a lot to keeping people around. Even somebody with a year or two experience in that location saves the initial "this is where everything is, this is how everything works, etc".
Literally taco bell is an upgrade for wages for many of the people. They aren't some assholes getting paid fairly demanding some random number.
theabortionatorYou could say $5 an hour is fine now with current costs because if they raise it it will only impact prices. There is a real relationship but the wage has not kept up with the cost of living at all.
And the ski industry is stuggling to fill roles now, stuggling to house employees or find people that can find housing that want to work there.
But they're slow to change. Then there are meetings and calls about trying to keep staff from constantly leaving. But people are still paid like shit.
Also there is a lot to keeping people around. Even somebody with a year or two experience in that location saves the initial "this is where everything is, this is how everything works, etc".
Literally taco bell is an upgrade for wages for many of the people. They aren't some assholes getting paid fairly demanding some random number.
You see it everywhere in large corporations, they're slow to change because the suits see at a shallow level that everything is doing great, likely because people below them want to maintain that image even if things are starting to degrade.
I agree that most people working for vail get treated and paid like shit. I think it is a huge faux pas that people get into the ski industry to ski when bartenders and construction workers make more and get more days in.
My point remains, until low level employess can organize and become a force big enough to make the suits sweat, nothing will change, at least not for a long time. Problem is, finding another job will likely be easier than the effort it would take to lead or partake in such event so I don't see it happening.
K-Dot.Besides the fact that your numbers are off and the actual amount would be around $225, why is the personal greed of 1 millionaire being put above the needs of 15 thousand that are the very means by which the company creates any value? Vail would be nothing without these people.
Let me know how the boot tastes down their if you have time to stop licking it
The problem isn't about what Vail pays their CEO, it's about what the CEO can earn elsewhere. Exec salaries are retainers.
High level execs, once established and proven, are worth their weight in gold in today's corporate structure. Their direction and insight on important macro themes can affect the companies balance sheet by billions. The bigger a company, the more leverage is placed on exec's decision.
Exec salaries are higher than ever, and yes that's fucked. It's a twisted byproduct of the consolidation of capital, market share, and power. Some call it late stage capitalism, and it's not unique to Vail. I wouldn't call it greed, it's just where we're at.
There's nothing more entertaining than whiny people feeling that they are entitled to a higher pay while there are still waves of others happy to take their job.
