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Hawx Ultra XTD

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onenerdykid
Posts: 6661 - Karma: 10,910
Hey NS,

We've made a fun new range of boots called the Hawx Ultra XTD ("extended"). If you have any questions about them, drop your queries here and I will do my best to answer them.

Here are some general details:



Das Range:


FAQs




Who is this boot for? Literally, the skier who wants one boot for almost all types of skiing. This boot is the ONLY touring-mode boot that flexes and feels like a real alpine boot, yet has 54° of cuff mobility, lightest-in-category weight (1.42kg), and fits better than anything else.


How is this possible? By combining the best of Hawx Ultra and the best of Backland. We use all of our alpine know-how to make sure it skis the best, and we use our touring know-how to make sure it tours the best.


Does skiing performance change because of this boot’s low weight? No – our main goal in making this boot was that it skied just like normal Hawx Ultra. Progressive and powerful, no compromise.


How do I set up the boot for touring? Unlike Backland, you will need to unbuckle the cuff and loosen the power strap in addition to disengaging the Free/Lock 2.0 mechanism. Position the buckle catcher into the hook on the tooth plate, and “close” the buckle. This will open the cuff enough to provide all 54° of cuff mobility.


What kind of sole is that? All models utilize an integrated WTR rubber sole. The sole is integrated (glued on) in order to save weight, provide the best traction, and reduce stand height. WTR is a type of Touring Norm (ISO 9523) that uses hard plastic AFDs in the toe & heel in order to provide a TÜV-approved safe release and 100% power transfer to the binding. It fits all pin-style bindings (including Kingpin), all WTR bindings, and any binding that accepts an ISO 9523 sole (Warden, Marker Duke, Marker Griffon ID, etc.). It does not fit standard alpine bindings (Z-series, X-series, Lithium, Mercury, etc.) nor Grip Walk bindings.


Why not just use a “normal” full rubber sole? While full rubber soles are great, they have their drawbacks. First, in an alpine-style binding (i.e. Warden), rubber soles will compress during skiing causing a loss in power transfer from the boot to the ski. This means your “130” flex boot isn’t behaving like a 130. Secondly, we wanted to ensure the safest release from the binding possible and this means adding plastic AFDs. Jamming your full rubber sole into an STH2 16 binding is a really good way to injure yourself.


Can I heat the Platinum/Gold liner on its own? Yes – if you don’t want to do Memory Fit, you can heat the liner on a hot-air blower for 15 minutes or in a Memory Fit oven for 3-4 minutes.


How do I wash the Platinum/Gold liner? As with Backland liners, hand wash only in 30°C/86°F water and air dry only.


What tech inserts are used in the boot? All Hawx Ultra XTD models use Dynafit Certified tech inserts.


What plastics are used in the boot? All lower shells are Grilamid, one of the lightest, strongest, and best skiing plastics available. The cuffs of the 130 & 110 W are also Grilamid, while the cuffs of the 120, 100, and 90W are PU.
Jan 26 2017 9:33AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6661 - Karma: 10,910
abar.


Just wanted to verify that this is the 15 degree forward lean configuration since I bought my boots from a third party. They feel like they have more forward lean than my non-xtd hawx ultras which are also at 15 degrees. Does the xtd have a lower volume in the calf area, since that might also explain the feeling? Or maybe I'm just overtightening and haven't done my proper stretches


The forward lean between Ultra and Ultra XTD is the same. The Ultra XTD might feel like more because of the giant, rigid ski/walk mechanism in the back prevents a lot of rearward flex. Basically, the Ultra XTD is more supportive to the rear, which gives you the feeling that it has more forward lean.

You can verify the setting by removing the liner, moving the cuff rearward and looking at the metal flip chip that the ski/walk mechanism is mounted to. The setting you can read is the setting being used (it will look like a fraction where one number is readable and the other is upside down).
Nov 25 2020 4:30AM
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Medicine
Posts: 56 - Karma: 193
So, anyone else experiencing this? Not to mention the "light plastic" which gets completely demolished by a range of alpine bindings.

Jan 27 2021 11:17AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6661 - Karma: 10,910
MedicineSo, anyone else experiencing this? Not to mention the "light plastic" which gets completely demolished by a range of alpine bindings.



What model year are your boots? We saw this happen during the first year black/orange models but we made some updates to the boot board.

Have they been ground thinner at all by a boot-fitter?
Jan 28 2021 2:34AM
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Medicine
Posts: 56 - Karma: 193
onenerdykidWhat model year are your boots? We saw this happen during the first year black/orange models but we made some updates to the boot board.

Have they been ground thinner at all by a boot-fitter?


They have not been ground or altered in any way from stock. They're my brother's boots, 19/20 model (anthracite grey and the flimsy olive green liners) ordered before they had them at the shop because they promised him they would be worth it. I think he contracted Atomic Spain yesterday but I wanted to know what you had to say about it. It has happened over time but at this point theyre not really useable anymore. Less than 50 days on them. Atleast now hes using beast bindings so the toe and heel lug are no longer being torn apart by alpine bindings.
Jan 28 2021 4:07AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6661 - Karma: 10,910
MedicineThey have not been ground or altered in any way from stock. They're my brother's boots, 19/20 model (anthracite grey and the flimsy olive green liners) ordered before they had them at the shop because they promised him they would be worth it. I think he contracted Atomic Spain yesterday but I wanted to know what you had to say about it. It has happened over time but at this point theyre not really useable anymore. Less than 50 days on them. Atleast now hes using beast bindings so the toe and heel lug are no longer being torn apart by alpine bindings.


Broken boot boards like that would for sure be covered by warranty. If he has difficulty getting some, just let me know.

He should definitely be careful with Beast bindings and their heel adapter. We've seen the heel adapter cause the shell to crack because the boot was never designed to handle loads where it gets screwed on. This is something we definitely don't recommend.

As for the alpine bindings- what bindings are being used? Some bindings are definitely known to be fairly rough on all boots, not just this category of boots. Also, particular care should always be taken when setting the forward pressure and toe height of the binding. Being off by a couple millimeters can really exacerbate the wear & tear.

Lastly, I think Cody Townsend said this particularly well- people should treat gear in this category like a Ferrari, not a Hummer. You need to take a bit more care with boots like this, particularly with how you step into bindings and how the bindings are set up.

But let me know how it goes from here and I'll help wherever I can.
Jan 28 2021 5:40AM
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hemlockjibber8
Posts: 5977 - Karma: 3,549
@onenerdykid Can we delve into Mimic? I've seen a few and it seems like a pretty sweet liner no doubt. However, I don't understand the Mimic aspect of it. That is the outer layer of the liner that heat molds to the shell, correct? My question is why doesn't it come pre molded to the shell? Unless we consider the alternative that no liners are shaped to the inside of a shell, what advantage does this someone for fit?

Also, a big kudos for making the buckle screws accessible when the buckle is done up. This makes it so much easier to remove and attach buckles to do work without having to grow a third hand or tape the buckle open. Small details are awesome.

As for damage from bindings from the guy above, Marker and Salomon bindings reek havoc on the Hawx, Mtn lab, and other light touring boots. No matter how they are set up.
Feb 1 2021 11:24PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6661 - Karma: 10,910
hemlockjibber8@onenerdykid Can we delve into Mimic? I've seen a few and it seems like a pretty sweet liner no doubt. However, I don't understand the Mimic aspect of it. That is the outer layer of the liner that heat molds to the shell, correct? My question is why doesn't it come pre molded to the shell? Unless we consider the alternative that no liners are shaped to the inside of a shell, what advantage does this someone for fit?

Also, a big kudos for making the buckle screws accessible when the buckle is done up. This makes it so much easier to remove and attach buckles to do work without having to grow a third hand or tape the buckle open. Small details are awesome.

As for damage from bindings from the guy above, Marker and Salomon bindings reek havoc on the Hawx, Mtn lab, and other light touring boots. No matter how they are set up.


Thanks man, we like those details too!

So, here is the breakdown on Mimic: there is a special heat moldable plastic in heel/ankle area, a heat moldable plastic tongue, and a heat moldable plastic cuff. They are pre-shaped and follow the last well, but to perfectly follow that is just not entirely possible, but that's ok since no stock liner can actually do that perfectly. A Mimic liner will always mold to the shell and a foot/leg- not just the last. Both get molded together and that's what makes it work so well. This is especially cool if you need to modify the shell and/or cuff and the person's foot/leg. The goal is to have a seamless fit between the person and the boot. A Mimic Platinum liner gets quite close to achieving that and Mimic Professional absolutely does that.
Feb 2 2021 2:47AM
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scratchskier321
Posts: 2571 - Karma: 1,313
onenerdykidBackland Carbon is about a 110 flex (on our robot it has the same flex pattern as a Hawx Prime 110 S). These are a traditional/classic touring boot. Nothing to use for resort/alpine skiing and they are not Shift/Warden compatible (they are TLT binding only).

Bummer you had to get rid of the boots. We don't share any molds or lasts with Salomon- we're totally separate companies when it comes to boots. But I can tell you that their last in the QST is higher volume than our Ultra XTD. And the S/Max series is only about 3mm lower in the instep than Ultra/Ultra XTD. Which is lower but not crazy low. If you still have the XTD boots, perhaps play around with certain liner options? Something with a thicker tongue or foam option?


why do they make s max 130 with like 20* of forward lean (sarcasm)... who are the aliens that ski that shit. it fits great in lower foot/shin, but i could never ski that agressive cuff
Feb 3 2021 4:06PM
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kid-kapow
Posts: 197 - Karma: 1,042
just re (first year) Hawx XTD 130s + Shifts vs wear and tear: I have somewhere in the 50 to 100 day range inbounds on this combo with very limited to no wear on the contact points of the boots as a result. I run a bit more forward pressure and closer AFD placement than recommended too (in order to prevent prereleases) - still little wear. I am fairly light at 66 kg nekid though, but mostly ski fairly substantial/heavy and stiff skis.

I probably have something like 5-10 days with the same XTDs and Pivots, and somewhere in the 50 to 100 day range on Vipecs/Tectons too. So they have seen a lot of use over several seasons with various bindings ranging from Pivots to ATKs and MTNs. I am extremely impressed with how well they have held up, especially for how light they are.

The most extreme case I've seen wrt wear - can't remember if it was here or on TGR - was 100% caused by AFD set way too high messing up the front lug. It had nothing to do with the plastics, everything to do with faulty setup.

So yeah, Ferraris is an apt analogy wrt to setup (besides Hummers are notoriously unreliable even if rugged, so poor example from Cody there ;) ), but XTDs still are durable as hell provided you set your bindings up correctly. They are not brittle / soft boots that fall apart the moment you use them - they can take a ton of use (and abuse).
Feb 3 2021 5:01PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
kid-kapowjust re (first year) Hawx XTD 130s + Shifts vs wear and tear: I have somewhere in the 50 to 100 day range inbounds on this combo with very limited to no wear on the contact points of the boots as a result. I run a bit more forward pressure and closer AFD placement than recommended too (in order to prevent prereleases) - still little wear. I am fairly light at 66 kg nekid though, but mostly ski fairly substantial/heavy and stiff skis.

I probably have something like 5-10 days with the same XTDs and Pivots, and somewhere in the 50 to 100 day range on Vipecs/Tectons too. So they have seen a lot of use over several seasons with various bindings ranging from Pivots to ATKs and MTNs. I am extremely impressed with how well they have held up, especially for how light they are.

The most extreme case I've seen wrt wear - can't remember if it was here or on TGR - was 100% caused by AFD set way too high messing up the front lug. It had nothing to do with the plastics, everything to do with faulty setup.

So yeah, Ferraris is an apt analogy wrt to setup (besides Hummers are notoriously unreliable even if rugged, so poor example from Cody there ;) ), but XTDs still are durable as hell provided you set your bindings up correctly. They are not brittle / soft boots that fall apart the moment you use them - they can take a ton of use (and abuse).

Mine have held up exceeding well too truth be told for all the abuse. 2+ extended seasons, kingpins, shifts, mostly touring with 10% resort.






Broken boot boards, lost a screw on the walk mechanism, and a piece of foam has now loosed itself from the back of one of the liners - yeah, not bad for the unbridled abuse ive caused.

Looking to run out the season between these and my backland carbons before replacing the Ultra XTD’s with... another Ultra XTD. First time I’ve replaced a boot with the same model. Feet have found home.

**This post was edited on Feb 3rd 2021 at 11:27:26pm

**This post was edited on Feb 3rd 2021 at 11:28:44pm
Feb 3 2021 11:26PM
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kid-kapow
Posts: 197 - Karma: 1,042
yeah, the only issue I can recall was that I too lost a screw in the walk mechanism. To be fair, I should have noticed the play before it fell off and it was easily replaceable with a screw I had lying around, so no need to order a new one.

I've used mine almost exclusively with Intuition ProTour liners (my 25.5 boots end up weighing a very impressive 1380gr w/ProTour + Booster straps) while touring and XTD 120 liners inbounds. I am actually more satisfied with the latter, though the 1200 liner is not very good for touring. I now only use them for touring (I use Lange XT3 130s inbound, to get a more balanced feel with full on resort skis and bindings).

I am considering getting a Mimic liner to replace both ProTour and 120 liners, but need to do a bit more research wrt to walkability and the cost of getting them setup by a dealer. I might just opt for a new pair to get GW soles (same as my other pair of boots) and the new buckles too.

But yeah, I have been extremely impressed with them. They are great boots.
Feb 4 2021 5:08AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6661 - Karma: 10,910
kid-kapowyeah, the only issue I can recall was that I too lost a screw in the walk mechanism. To be fair, I should have noticed the play before it fell off and it was easily replaceable with a screw I had lying around, so no need to order a new one.

I've used mine almost exclusively with Intuition ProTour liners (my 25.5 boots end up weighing a very impressive 1380gr w/ProTour + Booster straps) while touring and XTD 120 liners inbounds. I am actually more satisfied with the latter, though the 1200 liner is not very good for touring. I now only use them for touring (I use Lange XT3 130s inbound, to get a more balanced feel with full on resort skis and bindings).

I am considering getting a Mimic liner to replace both ProTour and 120 liners, but need to do a bit more research wrt to walkability and the cost of getting them setup by a dealer. I might just opt for a new pair to get GW soles (same as my other pair of boots) and the new buckles too.

But yeah, I have been extremely impressed with them. They are great boots.

Glad you dig 'em, Kid!

Re: Mimic liner - these will generally ski & tour like your current 120 liner. The big difference will be the moldability and resulting fit that Mimic will provide. You'll feel just more connected all around your foot & leg. Intuition will win in terms of being lighter and easier to tour in, but it won't be able to compete in terms of fit or skiing performance.

Re: new boot instead - they'll use the same exact fit parameters and plastics, so no change there. Big changes will be the Mimic liner, GripWalk sole, the new buckles, and a beefier cam-buckle power strap. The new boot has a lot going for it, just depends on budget and if those changes make sense for you vs. just going with a Mimic liner.
Feb 4 2021 6:18AM
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cydwhit
Posts: 5070 - Karma: 43,013
kid-kapowBut yeah, I have been extremely impressed with them. They are great boots.


Agreed. I recently handed on my original SIA pair to a buddy who was transitioning from snowboarding. 2+ seasons of hard touring and a fair bit of inbounds skiing in a huge range of bindings. Plenty of rock scrambling and really minimal wear externally. Had no qualms about handing them on to another person to let him hammer on. All I ever burnt out was the bushings and that's because a non-atomic shop baked them too long.

Now I'm just torn between going for a pair of Primes or sticking to Maestrale's when I inevitably kill my current Maestrale RS. My foot never truly worked in the regular XTD and it's a lot more comfortable in the Maestrale, but I keep breaking parts of the Maestrale and it's getting a little frustrating.

I think a Prime XTD 130 with the Phantom ankle buckle would be my quiver killer boot.
Feb 4 2021 7:23PM
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N41v131355
Posts: 220 - Karma: 386
Anyone with boot leaking issues like me? Bought a new hawx xtd 130 earlier and from day 1 it's leaking at the end of the overlap. I was surprised how my feet all of a sudden started getting cold, but after couple of days I realized that mimic liners are all wet every time. I started buckling to at least second hook right when I walk out of car/home , but still at the end if the day it looks like this:






If unbuckled, I literally have a pool inside.

**This post was edited on Feb 4th 2021 at 11:50:33pm
Feb 4 2021 11:48PM
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kid-kapow
Posts: 197 - Karma: 1,042
eh, my bad, I totally forgot about that - the leaking issue is the second issue I've intermittently had. The front seal is not perfection. I've never done anything to remedy it though, though as they will see lots of touring days going forward that is def something that I should address. My feet get moist enough as it is from the inside, so moisture coming from the outside in is no bueno.

tIt urns out that I have also cracked the left boot board before (the horizontally aftmost/protruding heel part) glued it and it has broken again - so reglued it. I had totally forgotten about it to be honest. It has not had any functional significance / effect whatsoever.
Feb 5 2021 4:03AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6661 - Karma: 10,910
N41v131355Anyone with boot leaking issues like me? Bought a new hawx xtd 130 earlier and from day 1 it's leaking at the end of the overlap. I was surprised how my feet all of a sudden started getting cold, but after couple of days I realized that mimic liners are all wet every time. I started buckling to at least second hook right when I walk out of car/home , but still at the end if the day it looks like this:


If unbuckled, I literally have a pool inside.

**This post was edited on Feb 4th 2021 at 11:50:33pm

Weird. Were your boots Memory Fitted or lots of stretching done in the toe box area?
Feb 5 2021 5:01AM
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N41v131355
Posts: 220 - Karma: 386
onenerdykidWeird. Were your boots Memory Fitted or lots of stretching done in the toe box area?

No stretching was done. When I bought them, fit was already good but sales rep adviced to do some basic bootfitting. They were put into the Atomic branded oven, and, if I recall correctly, shells were also heated. However, no punches or stretching.
Feb 5 2021 5:26AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6661 - Karma: 10,910
N41v131355No stretching was done. When I bought them, fit was already good but sales rep adviced to do some basic bootfitting. They were put into the Atomic branded oven, and, if I recall correctly, shells were also heated. However, no punches or stretching.


If the shell was heated, check out where the buckle attaches to the shell. Is the buckle tight to the shell or is there slop there?
Feb 5 2021 9:49AM
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hemlockjibber8
Posts: 5977 - Karma: 3,549
@onenerdykid

What is the delta of bootboard in, say, the shift? What rationale goes into determine that angle? I feel like overtime ramp angle has increased (with both boot and binding) and the boots forward lean has decreased. This seems like a strange, somewhat conflicting trend to me. Personally I’d rather have a flat binding, minimal boot delta and more forward lean (thanks for keeping the FL adjustable). But what is the science behind these moves?

Also, stepped boot boards. It seems like older boots had more planar boot boards and new ones (hawx included) have a stepped one. I find this accentuates the arches in footbeds causing issues and also makes it hard to have a natural, comfortable foot feel on the ski.

Ps. Can I join in on the next Deep Dive, I don’t know as much about philosophy but you won’t have to spend ten minutes explaining to Jonathan what lateral flex of a ski boot is.
Feb 5 2021 12:04PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6661 - Karma: 10,910
hemlockjibber8@onenerdykid

What is the delta of bootboard in, say, the shift? What rationale goes into determine that angle? I feel like overtime ramp angle has increased (with both boot and binding) and the boots forward lean has decreased. This seems like a strange, somewhat conflicting trend to me. Personally I’d rather have a flat binding, minimal boot delta and more forward lean (thanks for keeping the FL adjustable). But what is the science behind these moves?

Also, stepped boot boards. It seems like older boots had more planar boot boards and new ones (hawx included) have a stepped one. I find this accentuates the arches in footbeds causing issues and also makes it hard to have a natural, comfortable foot feel on the ski.

Ps. Can I join in on the next Deep Dive, I don’t know as much about philosophy but you won’t have to spend ten minutes explaining to Jonathan what lateral flex of a ski boot is.

We'll try to patch you in for the next one ;)

Re: binding delta - it sometimes depends on the how the binding can adjust between norms and what else the binding is trying to do. Shift is probably the most difficult binding design to pull off and while I would prefer the adjustment between norms was like STH or Warden, I can see why the binding team couldn't do it that way. This in turn affects how the ramp angle of the binding changes. For boots, we try to maintain a 4° ramp angle and in our opinion (derived from testing) the shape of our boot board feels good, whether skied without footbeds or with. And, as much as I would never recommend skiing a boot without a footbed, the boot board simply has to be thought of from that perspective because it's a reality that will never not exist. The compromise we strike is that the boot board in most of our boots is a grindable foam and if the boot fitter sees a need to alter it, it can easily be done. But we don't have stupid things like arch support built into it like other brands have done over the years. I think ours are rather minimal when it comes to things like that.
Feb 5 2021 1:04PM
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MicroMix
Posts: 297 - Karma: 48
This is similar to some of the earlier posts, but I've been experiencing quite a bit of deformation on the toe and heel. Been out about 6 days so far and haven't been charging super hard. Currently have a pair of shifts, I'm assuming my bindings need to be adjusted? Both boots are like this.



Feb 5 2021 3:15PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6661 - Karma: 10,910
@MicroMix - definitely have to have forward pressure and AFD height properly set. Being off by a couple of mm can lead to premature wear.
Feb 6 2021 4:37AM
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hemlockjibber8
Posts: 5977 - Karma: 3,549
Thanks for the info. I hear you on unfortunately having to have boots that feel decent off the shelf. Sigh....

One thing, I agree that the shift afd sucks and is a hard one to pull off but wouldn’t an adjustable afd maintain the ramp angle because it keeps the boot in the same places and adjusts to compensate for the thicker sole? I would assume the top of the din lugs are at a consistent height and it is the boot sole that varies.

Im in the process of making my own fixed afd for my wtr hawx. I wish Salomon would have made it replaceable for each norm like they do for the pivot. Simple solutions...
onenerdykidWe'll try to patch you in for the next one ;)

Re: binding delta - it sometimes depends on the how the binding can adjust between norms and what else the binding is trying to do. Shift is probably the most difficult binding design to pull off and while I would prefer the adjustment between norms was like STH or Warden, I can see why the binding team couldn't do it that way. This in turn affects how the ramp angle of the binding changes. For boots, we try to maintain a 4° ramp angle and in our opinion (derived from testing) the shape of our boot board feels good, whether skied without footbeds or with. And, as much as I would never recommend skiing a boot without a footbed, the boot board simply has to be thought of from that perspective because it's a reality that will never not exist. The compromise we strike is that the boot board in most of our boots is a grindable foam and if the boot fitter sees a need to alter it, it can easily be done. But we don't have stupid things like arch support built into it like other brands have done over the years. I think ours are rather minimal when it comes to things like that.
Feb 7 2021 2:12AM
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anders_a
Posts: 1680 - Karma: 5,603
Still breaking in my new hawk prime XTD 130 pretty nice boots for sure, skiiing mostly frontside, some wood trips etc, liners are breaking in turning more & more comfy, for how light they are, they really can charge, but I did challenge them somewhat and took a half a day on K2 mti , and today the new deacon v-werks 84, they did really really not like 50-60mph carves, BUT they didnt fold in on me totally, they seemed to have a flex suggesting they would, but then they just kinda stuck there? kinda intrigued by it, but think this means they will behave quite nicely for some freerideing shenanigans. they are softer than my dyn 130 for sure though, but.. 300-350? grams lighter per boot, so to be expected. and for me a better fit.



External shell looks so petite & weird, The buckles are staying in their place in lift though when you have them open, such an underrated feature. Will do my first tour on them soon, and kinda stoked on it.
Feb 7 2021 4:59PM
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servechilled
Posts: 1 - Karma: 10
Hey @onenerdykid,

I am skiing and touring on Ultra XTD 130's since 2018 and for me this is simply the best boot ever made!

Could you please tell me what to expect from the 2021/22 Ultra XTD 130, compared to this years model? As I am currently thinking of getting the 2020 model on sale...

Thanks in advance!
Feb 10 2021 2:41PM
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soupcan
Posts: 364 - Karma: 562
Any chance there will ever be an ultra hawx xtd HD? I love my ultras fit wise and while actually touring but I don’t like them in the resort while pushing bigger and damper skis. An XTD with a more stout shell would be the dream one boot quiver in my opinion. Similar to what dalbello did with the Lupo HD.
Feb 10 2021 2:52PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6661 - Karma: 10,910
servechilledHey @onenerdykid ,

I am skiing and touring on Ultra XTD 130's since 2018 and for me this is simply the best boot ever made!

Could you please tell me what to expect from the 2021/22 Ultra XTD 130, compared to this years model? As I am currently thinking of getting the 2020 model on sale...

Thanks in advance!

Glad you are digging them! There will be no change from the 20/21 to 21/22- same exact boot.

soupcanAny chance there will ever be an ultra hawx xtd HD? I love my ultras fit wise and while actually touring but I don’t like them in the resort while pushing bigger and damper skis. An XTD with a more stout shell would be the dream one boot quiver in my opinion. Similar to what dalbello did with the Lupo HD.

Would be a good idea for sure, who knows what will happen...
Feb 10 2021 3:43PM
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anders_a
Posts: 1680 - Karma: 5,603
soupcanAny chance there will ever be an ultra hawx xtd HD? I love my ultras fit wise and while actually touring but I don’t like them in the resort while pushing bigger and damper skis. An XTD with a more stout shell would be the dream one boot quiver in my opinion. Similar to what dalbello did with the Lupo HD.


+1 on this, at 24lbs3 the hawk prime XTD 130 doesnt exactly feel stiff, it does feel good, and much better in general for fit for me than my cochise, but... not the power
Feb 10 2021 4:22PM
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raffletaffle
Posts: 2 - Karma: 8
@onenerdykid

I am currently skiing in the 2018/2019 25.5 WTR version. They are heat molded and generally feel good. However, my big toes are in a bit of pain (and very cold), especially when touring. My toes are very straight, and they are somewhat crashing in the sidewall (if that makes sense). My feet measure in at 254mm and 259.

I am considering upgrading to the new Gripwalk version to have better compatibility with bindings.


Should I consider sizing up to 26.5, or would that be too roomy?
What is the difference between 2019/2020 and 2020/2021 version ( I understand 2022 is the same).
Oct 8 2021 4:22PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6661 - Karma: 10,910
raffletaffle@onenerdykid

I am currently skiing in the 2018/2019 25.5 WTR version. They are heat molded and generally feel good. However, my big toes are in a bit of pain (and very cold), especially when touring. My toes are very straight, and they are somewhat crashing in the sidewall (if that makes sense). My feet measure in at 254mm and 259.

I am considering upgrading to the new Gripwalk version to have better compatibility with bindings.


Should I consider sizing up to 26.5, or would that be too roomy?
What is the difference between 2019/2020 and 2020/2021 version ( I understand 2022 is the same).


Don't size up - just get the toe box stretched/punched for your big toe. A good boot-fitter has to tools to square out your toe box more and heat up the liner to have it mold into the shape of the new shell shape. This will not only help with the pain but also with the cold (more toe space = less pressure, less pain, more blood flow).
Oct 9 2021 5:55AM
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raffletaffle
Posts: 2 - Karma: 8
Thanks! I'll punch the toebox and see if that makes it better. Still considering upgrading to a gripwalk version though.
I understand that GW is standard from 2019/2020. What is the difference og 2019/2020 and 2020/2021?
Oct 9 2021 6:18AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6661 - Karma: 10,910
raffletaffleThanks! I'll punch the toebox and see if that makes it better. Still considering upgrading to a gripwalk version though.
I understand that GW is standard from 2019/2020. What is the difference og 2019/2020 and 2020/2021?


19/20
-first year of GripWalk
-beefier but still had a more touring-oriented liner
-beefier but still had a more touring-oriented power strap
-sweet new cuff buckles that allow for more cuff travel and lock "open" to stay out of the way while skinning

20/21 & 21/22 (same boot)
-new Mimic Platinum liner that fits 1:1 like our regular Hawx Ultra and now with heat-moldable, re-shapable Mimic plastic in the ankle/heel, the tongue, and liner cuff
-new 50mm cam strap from our Hawx Ultra
-same buckles & sole profile as 19/20
Oct 9 2021 7:21AM
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kid-kapow
Posts: 197 - Karma: 1,042
I just took delivery of what will be my third pair of XTD 130 Ultras, and man - these boots have come a long way since the OG verion. The fit and finish is great right out of the box, and the hardware is super refinede. Well done Matt & crew!

I plan to use them with TourWraps for big days out touring for a light, but still hard charging setup. The new Mimic liner seems pretty damn good too, though they are just more liner weight wise than what I think I can get away with with such a strong shell.

I might order some of the new dual elastic straps as well - time will tell - but so far I am super happy with the purchase.
Dec 3 2021 4:12PM
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f100prerunner
Posts: 504 - Karma: 1,313
Looking for a bit of input here. Likely going to pick up some hawx ultra xtd 130s as a dedicated touring boot. I tried on the 28 and had about a 1cm shell fit. This was without my footbed. With my footbed, I have about a 1.5-1.75 shell fit. I am extremely torn on whether to get a 28 or a 29. As it stands, I wish I could get an even narrower boot. I have extremely skinny feet. With that said, sizing up to a 29 will only give me a wider fit. It is really my big toe that takes up a ton of length, so should I get the 28s and go with a big toe toe punch if I am experiencing pain? How much could a decent boot fitter expand the big toe area of the xtd’s? Any input is appreciated. Thanks a ton guys.
Dec 26 2021 6:13PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6661 - Karma: 10,910
f100prerunnerLooking for a bit of input here. Likely going to pick up some hawx ultra xtd 130s as a dedicated touring boot. I tried on the 28 and had about a 1cm shell fit. This was without my footbed. With my footbed, I have about a 1.5-1.75 shell fit. I am extremely torn on whether to get a 28 or a 29. As it stands, I wish I could get an even narrower boot. I have extremely skinny feet. With that said, sizing up to a 29 will only give me a wider fit. It is really my big toe that takes up a ton of length, so should I get the 28s and go with a big toe toe punch if I am experiencing pain? How much could a decent boot fitter expand the big toe area of the xtd’s? Any input is appreciated. Thanks a ton guys.


Without being able to see your feet and them in the shell, I would lean more to making the 28 work with a toe punch. In general, you want to fit the instep & heel then make more room where needed. Sounds like a simple toe punch would do the trick.
Dec 27 2021 2:24AM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,121
f100prerunnerLooking for a bit of input here. Likely going to pick up some hawx ultra xtd 130s as a dedicated touring boot. I tried on the 28 and had about a 1cm shell fit. This was without my footbed. With my footbed, I have about a 1.5-1.75 shell fit. I am extremely torn on whether to get a 28 or a 29. As it stands, I wish I could get an even narrower boot. I have extremely skinny feet. With that said, sizing up to a 29 will only give me a wider fit. It is really my big toe that takes up a ton of length, so should I get the 28s and go with a big toe toe punch if I am experiencing pain? How much could a decent boot fitter expand the big toe area of the xtd’s? Any input is appreciated. Thanks a ton guys.


It's tough enough to give advice in-person, and online is even tougher, but I would NOT suggest up-sizing if you already have over 1cm in the shell fit. Starting with over 2cm of space is just going to be too big.

I think the biggest flaw with the boot is the small toe box. So many people seem to have issues with it compared to other brands. I have seen quite a few people either up-size incorrectly or get a different boot because of it. The worst part about it is It's usually an easy fix. You can get a ton of volume in the toe box, especially the older models. The shell is so thin, and holds punches at such a low temp, that you can expand it pretty much as much as you want without warping the soles. If you want to do a big toe specific punch you can't do too much before it will interfere with an alpine binding.

I have the old xtd and lost my toenail on the first day in them. All it took to fix was a second heat mold with those Sidas toe caps. I think the shell expanded a bit lengthwise in the heel as well which actually stretched it a bit narrower (a good thing for me). On my ex girlfriend's normal ultra 115's with a similar fit to yours (just under 1cm) I did a big toe punch and it worked super well. I've also done general toe volume expansions on dozens of them.
Dec 28 2021 9:57AM
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profa_212
Posts: 8912 - Karma: 36,007
f100prerunnerLooking for a bit of input here. Likely going to pick up some hawx ultra xtd 130s as a dedicated touring boot. I tried on the 28 and had about a 1cm shell fit. This was without my footbed. With my footbed, I have about a 1.5-1.75 shell fit. I am extremely torn on whether to get a 28 or a 29. As it stands, I wish I could get an even narrower boot. I have extremely skinny feet. With that said, sizing up to a 29 will only give me a wider fit. It is really my big toe that takes up a ton of length, so should I get the 28s and go with a big toe toe punch if I am experiencing pain? How much could a decent boot fitter expand the big toe area of the xtd’s? Any input is appreciated. Thanks a ton guys.


Like said above the xtds are fairly easy to modify. Plus they rip. I've been suggesting them to you for years haven't I? 😉 Lolol
Dec 28 2021 3:46PM
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f100prerunner
Posts: 504 - Karma: 1,313
Awesome, thanks for the feedback guys.
Dec 29 2021 12:12AM
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f100prerunner
Posts: 504 - Karma: 1,313
Profahoben_212Like said above the xtds are fairly easy to modify. Plus they rip. I've been suggesting them to you for years haven't I? 😉 Lolol


Haha yes…you know, maybe I just had to get the matching Nordicas before 😂 although they aren’t 150s
Dec 29 2021 12:14AM
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skiP.E.I.
Posts: 7823 - Karma: 21,856
I'm thinking of buying the Hawx 130 S, wondering if they would be a good fit for me. I'm 6', 210 lbs. I'm skiing about 40% all-mountain, 30% park/urban and 30% touring with frame bindings. I'm a fairly fast, aggressive skier and ski in all conditions from arctic powder to wind/rain crust in northeastern Canada.
I also want to know if they have replaceable heel and toe lugs because I walk around in my ski boots a lot, tuning up park features, instructing and street skiing.
Dec 29 2021 11:02PM
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soupcan
Posts: 364 - Karma: 562
I decided I wanted a more powerful boot for the resort and ended up in some new Fischer RC4 Vacuums and it got me thinking. Could I vacuum my ultra hawx to shrink a bit of instep volume? Length wise they are great for touring a bit more wiggle room in the toes for the longer walks but I have no volume in my instep through my ankle so I was thinking the vacuum could suck some of that in maybe?

Right now I have some fitting foam slapped on the tongue which is good but on occasion based on tongue placement can give slight hotspots. Heel hold isn’t really an issue they are held in there well so maybe the ankle and instep volume is a placebo but I know In my mind I ski better with that extra bit of security.

any thoughts on this one @onenerdykid?
Dec 30 2021 1:23AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6661 - Karma: 10,910
skiP.E.I.I'm thinking of buying the Hawx 130 S, wondering if they would be a good fit for me. I'm 6', 210 lbs. I'm skiing about 40% all-mountain, 30% park/urban and 30% touring with frame bindings. I'm a fairly fast, aggressive skier and ski in all conditions from arctic powder to wind/rain crust in northeastern Canada.
I also want to know if they have replaceable heel and toe lugs because I walk around in my ski boots a lot, tuning up park features, instructing and street skiing.


The only person who can tell you if the boot is the right fit for you is a boot-fitter who can see your foot and your foot inside the plastic shell. From a flex perspective, sounds about right for a guy your size. What boot have you liked/not liked before? You want a non-walk mode boot for some touring use? They do have replaceable toes and heels.
Dec 30 2021 12:16PM
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skiP.E.I.
Posts: 7823 - Karma: 21,856
onenerdykidThe only person who can tell you if the boot is the right fit for you is a boot-fitter who can see your foot and your foot inside the plastic shell. From a flex perspective, sounds about right for a guy your size. What boot have you liked/not liked before? You want a non-walk mode boot for some touring use? They do have replaceable toes and heels.

I'm not sure if I've had a boot with walk mode before, or if I have, I've never used it in walk mode and never really noticed when touring. My favourite boots were Salomon Foils but that was in 2008 when my skiing was completely different and in retrospect they were a size too big.
My least favourite boots were Head LYT 120. I didn't like the fit and the shell cracked within a year.
Every other boot I've used has just been whatever I could get free or really cheap, except some Full Tilts which started to fall apart immediately.
Where I am the only boots to try on are Head, and I haven't found any of those that fit well.
Dec 30 2021 11:13PM
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BC_Bandito
Posts: 6 - Karma: 13
I've got a pair of 120s that have been the best skiing touring boots I've ever tried, and been singing their praises to anyone in ear-shot. Big fan of these with Shift bindings and my 2014 Bentchetlers. Unfortunately, I haven't had a great experience regarding durability & warranty of the boots.

Firstly, (not a big deal at all but worth noting) one of the hex screws on the walk mechanism popped out at the hill and it took a long time to get replacements. Was able to make a hardware store M4 screw with matching threads work in the meantime. Definitely consider putting some blue Loctite on there, especially if you flip the forward lean chip. Is there a torque spec?

Secondly, my Gold liner started splitting above the heel where the upper plastic is sewn to the soft flex-zone. Interestingly, Atomic sent the shop a set of replacement liners prior to mentioning that they weren't covered under warranty and that they were going to cost $150. Apparently, the liner warranty is only 1 year. That's pretty rough for what seems like a bit of a design flaw with poor stitching/connection between the two material types. I wasn't keen on paying for another set with the same potential issue, so the shop had to hang onto them and I kept skiing with my fingers crossed.
I did a bunch of research and decided to get some Mimic Platinum liners to replace them. So far I'm psyched on the Mimic liners. Definitely going to keep tabs on the heel stitching this time. Still stoked on these boots, until....

Thirdly, and most importantly, I noticed two cracks in the cuff (or shell if you're Jonathan E). This threw my for a loop. I've never heard of cuffs cracking and would not expect the sweet Atomic PU plastics on the 120s to crack. I'm a pretty light dude. I sent in the photo below for a warranty request and was again denied with the explanation from Atomic that the warranty is only 2 years for boots. What is a reasonable amount of time to think boots will last, I would argue > 2 yrs, and how are PU cuffs cracking under normal wear and tear anyways? I still run my Solomon Energizers from 2008 on in-bounds days...


I want to keep skiing these boots and future iterations but am definitely losing confidence. Can't go back to the Mercurys! In the meantime, any tips for cuff plastic repair would be sweet...
Jan 25 2022 12:07AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6661 - Karma: 10,910
BC_BanditoI've got a pair of 120s that have been the best skiing touring boots I've ever tried, and been singing their praises to anyone in ear-shot. Big fan of these with Shift bindings and my 2014 Bentchetlers. Unfortunately, I haven't had a great experience regarding durability & warranty of the boots.

Firstly, (not a big deal at all but worth noting) one of the hex screws on the walk mechanism popped out at the hill and it took a long time to get replacements. Was able to make a hardware store M4 screw with matching threads work in the meantime. Definitely consider putting some blue Loctite on there, especially if you flip the forward lean chip. Is there a torque spec?

Secondly, my Gold liner started splitting above the heel where the upper plastic is sewn to the soft flex-zone. Interestingly, Atomic sent the shop a set of replacement liners prior to mentioning that they weren't covered under warranty and that they were going to cost $150. Apparently, the liner warranty is only 1 year. That's pretty rough for what seems like a bit of a design flaw with poor stitching/connection between the two material types. I wasn't keen on paying for another set with the same potential issue, so the shop had to hang onto them and I kept skiing with my fingers crossed.

I did a bunch of research and decided to get some Mimic Platinum liners to replace them. So far I'm psyched on the Mimic liners. Definitely going to keep tabs on the heel stitching this time. Still stoked on these boots, until....

Thirdly, and most importantly, I noticed two cracks in the cuff (or shell if you're Jonathan E). This threw my for a loop. I've never heard of cuffs cracking and would not expect the sweet Atomic PU plastics on the 120s to crack. I'm a pretty light dude. I sent in the photo below for a warranty request and was again denied with the explanation from Atomic that the warranty is only 2 years for boots. What is a reasonable amount of time to think boots will last, I would argue > 2 yrs, and how are PU cuffs cracking under normal wear and tear anyways? I still run my Solomon Energizers from 2008 on in-bounds days...



I want to keep skiing these boots and future iterations but am definitely losing confidence. Can't go back to the Mercurys! In the meantime, any tips for cuff plastic repair would be sweet...

Bummer to hear about your issues. The first two sound like they are solved, but the third will unfortunately be a problem. Re: first issue- longer screws are now used that have more threads engaging the base plate. The screws come with thread lock already on them, but adding more is never a bad idea. Torque spec is 2Nm (that doesn't sound like a lot but it is when you consider you are compressing plastic, not just metal on metal like a bolt on a bike). 2Nm isn't a lot on a bike but it goes a long way on a ski boot.

2nd issue - touring does a number on liners and after a while, you'll see every brands liners start to go. But, hopefully you have better luck with the latest version.

3rd issue - when you get cracks like this, it's unfortunately no longer skiable. Fixing this kind of stuff never works well. Cracks like this can happen by over-tightening the buckles, and you see it even on race boots (especially above the instep shell buckle). I can tell you've needed to put the toothplates on their tightest setting (this is not a dis in any way, just an explanation of the issue) and when you crank down on the buckles it will pull the two sections of the cuff in a "
Jan 25 2022 3:30AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6661 - Karma: 10,910
Sorry - for some reason my post got cut off. Here's the rest:


3rd issue - when you get cracks like this, it's unfortunately no longer skiable. Fixing this kind of stuff never works well. Cracks like this can happen by over-tightening the buckles, and you see it even on race boots (especially above the instep shell buckle). I can tell you've needed to put the toothplates on their tightest setting (this is not a dis in any way, just an explanation of the issue) and when you crank down on the buckles it will pull the two sections of the cuff in a "
Jan 25 2022 5:19AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6661 - Karma: 10,910
Seriously... WTF? trying again...

3rd issue - when you get cracks like this, it's unfortunately no longer skiable. Fixing this kind of stuff never works well. Cracks like this can happen by over-tightening the buckles, and you see it even on race boots (especially above the instep shell buckle). I can tell you've needed to put the toothplates on their tightest setting (this is not a dis in any way, just an explanation of the issue) and when you crank down on the buckles it will pull the two sections of the cuff in different directions. After a while, this can cause a crack to develop.

It's probably fair to say that you’ve skied the boots a lot (and I mean that in the best way possible) and that you’ve most likely put more days on these boots than the average user. It’s also helpful to bear in mind that any of these lighter weight boots (from any boot brand) aren’t going to have the same life span as full-blown alpine boots. That you got 3-4 years of solid use out of this boot is pretty good.
Jan 25 2022 5:22AM
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BC_Bandito
Posts: 6 - Karma: 13
Thanks for the speedy reply Matt! Good to hear about the longer screws and thanks for the torque spec. Still not stoked about the stitching on the Gold liner but hopefully that's been updated or not in circulation anymore.

Interesting to hear about tight buckles leading to cracking. I only tighten the buckles to the max position for storage between ski days to keep the resting cuff shape, usually without the liner installed. I actually ski on the 3rd or 4th lowest rungs. Is there something about this setup that may lead to premature stress/cracking? Seems like a pretty standard approach to me. I'm keen to get any feedback that might help reduce the chances of this with future boots.

The discussion above seems to relate to crack #1 in the photo but what about crack #2 down near the pivot? This should be independent of the buckles?

Regarding the usage, I'm a weekend warrior so wouldn't agree that I'm above average regarding # of days... Right now I'm in a tricky spot after spending $300 for the Mimic Platinum and now need a whole new boot. Would atomic sell shell/cuff separately?

Again, really stoked on the feedback but I'm a little surprised that a top-of-the-line freeride-touring boot would only have a 1-year liner warranty, 2-year full warranty and the expectation is that it's reasonable for the boot to be un-repairable after 3 years of weekend use.

I noticed an old comment in another thread a while back when I was trying to sort out what may have led to the cracking:
PxolarisI just bought a pair of used 17/18
Aromic Hawx Ultra 120s and I have seen some threads and complaints about
the shell cracking, should I be worried? Mine are not cracked but given
that they are used is inevitable or can it be avoided?

reply: Those boots will have updates to prevent the old cracking issues we had.

Does this relate to my situation? If this was an issue wouldn't that mean Atomic would warranty? Do the latest 120s have some sort of updated design to address this and I could expect more longevity in a new Hawx Ultra XTD 120?

Thanks again for taking the time, I buried a bunch of questions in there! Hopefully others can get some tips on not rocking their boots to tight etc.

**This post was edited on Jan 26th 2022 at 12:23:01am
Jan 26 2022 12:21AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6661 - Karma: 10,910
BC_BanditoThanks for the speedy reply Matt! Good to hear about the longer screws and thanks for the torque spec. Still not stoked about the stitching on the Gold liner but hopefully that's been updated or not in circulation anymore.

Interesting to hear about tight buckles leading to cracking. I only tighten the buckles to the max position for storage between ski days to keep the resting cuff shape, usually without the liner installed. I actually ski on the 3rd or 4th lowest rungs. Is there something about this setup that may lead to premature stress/cracking? Seems like a pretty standard approach to me. I'm keen to get any feedback that might help reduce the chances of this with future boots.

The discussion above seems to relate to crack #1 in the photo but what about crack #2 down near the pivot? This should be independent of the buckles?

Regarding the usage, I'm a weekend warrior so wouldn't agree that I'm above average regarding # of days... Right now I'm in a tricky spot after spending $300 for the Mimic Platinum and now need a whole new boot. Would atomic sell shell/cuff separately?

Again, really stoked on the feedback but I'm a little surprised that a top-of-the-line freeride-touring boot would only have a 1-year liner warranty, 2-year full warranty and the expectation is that it's reasonable for the boot to be un-repairable after 3 years of weekend use.

I noticed an old comment in another thread a while back when I was trying to sort out what may have led to the cracking:

reply: Those boots will have updates to prevent the old cracking issues we had.

Does this relate to my situation? If this was an issue wouldn't that mean Atomic would warranty? Do the latest 120s have some sort of updated design to address this and I could expect more longevity in a new Hawx Ultra XTD 120?

Thanks again for taking the time, I buried a bunch of questions in there! Hopefully others can get some tips on not rocking their boots to tight etc.

**This post was edited on Jan 26th 2022 at 12:23:01am

The problem we faced with the regular Hawx Ultra cuffs was related to that specific mold series - things were fully updated and changed by the time the Ultra XTD was being made. Unfortunately/fortunately, what you are experiencing is not related to that (those problem cuffs literally shattered).

I'm going to reach out to you via PM and hopefully we can get you sorted.
Jan 26 2022 2:47AM
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zerospinskier
Posts: 4867 - Karma: 350
Just popping in to say that I love these boots!

I got some 2022 130s recently and they are my only boot now. I had Salomon SMax for in bounds, but they didn't have enough forward lean, so I decided to try these to replace my inbounds and touring boots with one setup. And sure enough they definitely can!

I really like the included velcro spoilers. I have never tried an added spoiler before, but I wish I had! My legs are lean and I never knew it would help so much. Great idea. Most people won't think to buy one, but I'll certainly try it if you include it with the boot.

I could definitely use a more shock absorbing boot board. These hurt my feet on landings more than any other boot I've tried. My Footprint Gamechager insoles helped a lot. Without those I would have a rough time skiing park all day.

Sure there are sacrifices with a one boot quiver. But they are really minimal. They flex much smoother than my Vulcan MS touring boot. And are 90% as damp and smooth as the SMax. Thanks for making a sick boot!
Jan 28 2022 10:32AM
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