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FrozinballzOkay Im not going to get in a full blown back to back fight here on the internet its not my style to continue it. I wanted to call you out for being the everyday internet warrior anytime anyone posts something. I said I support trump and you said I am misinformed and following off emotion. Wrong, I gave you facts why I will vote for him. Its completely my opinion and I can think whatever I want. Whether your right or Im right, I guess we will just wait and have to see in 20 years.
Hate on mexicans? Maybe go back and read and realize I never said I hated mexicans (don't even think I said Mexican???!). Some of my best friends are mexican jackass. Maybe if you would stop making assumptions to go off on another one of your rants we would have a more civilized conversation. Thats half the problem with the democrats is as soon as you say you support trump they automatically think your racist and hate mexicans. Just because I have a little more patriotism to the country that has been so good to me and my generation of families is far from a bad thing. Thats what makes countries. And thank you, I will keep my gun.
Flame away, flamer.
Impossible to have a civilized conversation with a person like yourself. Its like trying to convince a toaster its actually a T2i...
FrozinballzOkay Im not going to get in a full blown back to back fight here on the internet its not my style to continue it. I wanted to call you out for being the everyday internet warrior anytime anyone posts something. I said I support trump and you said I am misinformed and following off emotion. Wrong, I gave you facts why I will vote for him. Its completely my opinion and I can think whatever I want. Whether your right or Im right, I guess we will just wait and have to see in 20 years.
Hate on mexicans? Maybe go back and read and realize I never said I hated mexicans (don't even think I said Mexican???!). Some of my best friends are mexican jackass. Maybe if you would stop making assumptions to go off on another one of your rants we would have a more civilized conversation. Thats half the problem with the democrats is as soon as you say you support trump they automatically think your racist and hate mexicans. Just because I have a little more patriotism to the country that has been so good to me and my generation of families is far from a bad thing. Thats what makes countries. And thank you, I will keep my gun.
Flame away, flamer.
Well, you implied immigrants are stealing jobs and more are coming over our border than leaving. Both those statements are wrong.
So yes, I am calling you informed for these very reasons.
I haven't even touched on the idea of supporting a Presidential candidate who thinks US debt can be negotiated down like corporate debt. If you want to see the global economy collapse, that is the first step. It is absolutely and utterly absurd. Anyone who can support THAT, is crazy and generally lacking any sort of economic knowledge.
Don't get me started on his free trade ideas either.
You are allowed to have your own opinions, but when they can be combatted by facts and shown to be wrong by a standing majority, then you are misinformed.
I am not a Democrat, you can look at my post history from a few years back. I am an Independent that actually tends to lean fiscally conservative. I just know demagoguery when I see it.
REGRESSIVELEFTand I gave it to you. Don't play stupid, you know what you were hoping for so you could feel like a big man and tell me how I'm wrong.
So the official NRA position is always your position? Or just in this instance? Or are you unable to form your own position so you default to the NRA's?
It aint hard to feel like a big man when the guy next to you is such a mental midget that he cant form his own opinion or thoughts lol.
"Donald Trump said Sunday that in the wake of the mass shooting in Orlando, it's time for the United States to start looking at racial profiling as a preventative tactic.
"Well I think profiling is something that we're going to have to start thinking about as a country," the presumptive GOP nominee said in a phone interview with CBS' "Face the Nation. "Other countries do it, you look at Israel and you look at others, they do it and they do it successfully. And I hate the concept of profiling but we have to start using common sense and we have to use our heads." "
californiagrownWell, when i ask for your opinion on something and you answer "The NRA says..."
yeah, it appears you cannot form your own opinion haha
That picture was posted on Facebook by an NRA lover. that is why the
NRA is relevant brah. I can totally form my own opinions tho homeslice. I just don't feel like sharing it with ass wipes like you.
hahaaaaaaa
hella burned
REGRESSIVELEFTThat picture was posted on Facebook by an NRA lover. that is why the
NRA is relevant brah. I can totally form my own opinions tho homeslice. I just don't feel like sharing it with ass wipes like you.
hahaaaaaaa
hella burned
You realized your opinion made no logical sense, huh? Sucks when that happens.
REGRESSIVELEFTI don't give a shit what they ban, there will always be a way to get a gun if you want one bad enough.
Yes, this is a problem (and maybe you're not making this argument, I'm just putting it out there) but I could easily say the same thing about a car, which kills just as many people each year. There's just so many of them around and they're so easy to get a hold of, so hey let's not regulate more than we already do or teach people how to properly own and take care of them. Such a position is utter nonsense. When it comes to anything that yields great power, there comes an inherent responsibility associated with that power (if we want to live in a civil society). It doesn't matter if it's a gun, a car, a plane, a boat, or whatever can lead to a disastrous end from its misuse- there needs to be checks in place to ensure such disaster is minimized. To that end, we are totally failing ourselves and our fellow citizens.
onenerdykidYes, this is a problem (and maybe you're not making this argument, I'm just putting it out there) but I could easily say the same thing about a car, which kills just as many people each year. There's just so many of them around and they're so easy to get a hold of, so hey let's not regulate more than we already do or teach people how to properly own and take care of them. Such a position is utter nonsense. When it comes to anything that yields great power, there comes an inherent responsibility associated with that power (if we want to live in a civil society). It doesn't matter if it's a gun, a car, a plane, a boat, or whatever can lead to a disastrous end from its misuse- there needs to be checks in place to ensure such disaster is minimized. To that end, we are totally failing ourselves and our fellow citizens.
Yup I agree. I had to go to drivers Ed for 6 weeks at 6:30 am just to get a driving permit, but If I have enough $$$ I can go buy a .50 caliber sniper rifle and it may take 3 days max for the background check, after that I'm free to pack it around wherever I go. That's the reality we live in and it is messed up.
I think so far this year there have been 23 gun deaths just from toddlers.
I THINK THE QUESTION WE SHOULD REALLY BE ASKING IS WHY DO THESE SHOOTERS COMMIT THESE KILLINGS? WHAT IS IT ABOUT AMERICA TODAY THAT IS INSPIRING THESE PEOPLE? WHAT IS BREEDING THIS HATE?
onenerdykidHow does anyone actually believe that building a wall will effectively keep people from entering the country? Mexican drug dealers are currently building tunnels to run drugs across (under) the border: http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/23/us/calexico-california-border-tunnel-drug-smuggling/ They will most certainly build tunnels to traffic human beings.
FrozinballzYou completely just contradicted yourself mid paragraph by saying we have an immigration problem (your next few sentences) yet a wall and Donald Trump’s policies won’t help this situation. Yes, a wall is a lot harder to get around than no wall. Lets say theres a cookie 10 ft in front of you. Will it be easier to grab the cookie with a wall in front of you or a wall not in front of you?
Okay great, we share a common ground. Yes, we have a serious problem with people infiltrating us and coming across our borders. You said it, not me. But I completely agree.That is one reason why I fully support Trump over Hillary. (Lets face it, one of them will be our next president, so you might as well pick your side, they both have issues).
WE obviously have a huge immigration problem and it is hurting our economy, overcrowding cities, holding down salaries, keeps unemployment high, and makes it difficult for poor and working class AMERICANS to earn middle class wages. Its also bringing in drugs like you said, terrorists, and a bunch of freeloaders using our system because it works for them. In short the immigration system is being used to attack the United States of America. We should probably work on fixing that right? We need to unify as a country and fix ourselves before we worry about offending others. I think Trump has some logical plans for this.
You clearly do not understand the concept of a logical contradiction. Nowhere did I claim X and then say my position is not-X. I never admitted that immigration was (or was not) a problem, I merely pointed out that building a wall was never going to be a solution to such a problem. I quoted my response to you again just so you can re-read it aloud and see for yourself because it's clear to me that you interpret reality through a very skewed filter,
If you truly think that the cause of all of the problems you listed is illegal immigration, then you are completely insane. Firstly, they comprise about 4% of the population. While I am not in favor of illegal immigration or open borders, you are greatly overstating how big of a problem it is. What is the problem is this- have you ever even bothered to wonder why are people like Trump are hiring illegals in the first place? Their greed based, profits-first-people-second business structure promotes it. If these businesses wanted to pay middle class wages to American citizens they would, but they don't. Why pay someone $10 an hour when an illegal will do it for $4? But yeah, it's clearly the illegals' fault. If you want to stop one of the main causes of the "problem" then treat the source of the bleeding- get employers to start paying livable wages that American citizens will want to work for.
Trump is probably the best example of mental poverty that has ever run for president. Nothing he says has any meaningful content whatsoever- he just repeats the same 3 empty claims over and over and over again until you think they make sense. It's persuasion 101. But don't worry- It's going to be great, very very great. You won't believe how great it's going to be. If you think that is the framework for a "logical plan" then you aren't thinking clearly at all.
onenerdykidYou clearly do not understand the concept of a logical contradiction. Nowhere did I claim X and then say my position is not-X. I never admitted that immigration was (or was not) a problem, I merely pointed out that building a wall was never going to be a solution to such a problem. I quoted my response to you again just so you can re-read it aloud and see for yourself because it's clear to me that you interpret reality through a very skewed filter,
If you truly think that the cause of all of the problems you listed is illegal immigration, then you are completely insane. Firstly, they comprise about 4% of the population. While I am not in favor of illegal immigration or open borders, you are greatly overstating how big of a problem it is. What is the problem is this- have you ever even bothered to wonder why are people like Trump are hiring illegals in the first place? Their greed based, profits-first-people-second business structure promotes it. If these businesses wanted to pay middle class wages to American citizens they would, but they don't. Why pay someone $10 an hour when an illegal will do it for $4? But yeah, it's clearly the illegals' fault. If you want to stop one of the main causes of the "problem" then treat the source of the bleeding- get employers to start paying livable wages that American citizens will want to work for.
Trump is probably the best example of mental poverty that has ever run for president. Nothing he says has any meaningful content whatsoever- he just repeats the same 3 empty claims over and over and over again until you think they make sense. It's persuasion 101. But don't worry- It's going to be great, very very great. You won't believe how great it's going to be. If you think that is the framework for a "logical plan" then you aren't thinking clearly at all.
REGRESSIVELEFTI THINK THE QUESTION WE SHOULD REALLY BE ASKING IS WHY DO THESE SHOOTERS COMMIT THESE KILLINGS? WHAT IS IT ABOUT AMERICA TODAY THAT IS INSPIRING THESE PEOPLE? WHAT IS BREEDING THIS HATE?
idealogies pure and simple, its not complicated but one day, when these things happen again, and again, God knows how long it will take, i hope it wont happen again, but unfortunately how things have headed, it will happen again. with a bomb, or a gun, or whatever you will eventually realize that, its pure and simple, violent ideaology. Call it racist, call it realistic, or paranoid. But i will wait, i hope it just doesnt end up being as bad as what happened in Cologne, or in the UK, but it probably will.
roddy116idealogies pure and simple, its not complicated but one day, when these things happen again, and again, God knows how long it will take, i hope it wont happen again, but unfortunately how things have headed, it will happen again. with a bomb, or a gun, or whatever you will eventually realize that, its pure and simple, violent ideaology. Call it racist, call it realistic, or paranoid. But i will wait, i hope it just doesnt end up being as bad as what happened in Cologne, or in the UK, but it probably will.
Red and light red is non muslim. Blue and light blue is muslim. And that spike at the end includes the Pulse shooter, who at this point in time does not seem to be linked to Islam as his entire family said he wasn't religious at all. But I'm sure you can do the math.
I think trump is nothing but a rich bigot with an opinion and no political experience. Electing this man would be like telling a high school studeny to balance greece's books. He's just not qualified in anything but yelling into a microphone...
S.J.WRed and light red is non muslim. Blue and light blue is muslim. And that spike at the end includes the Pulse shooter, who at this point in time does not seem to be linked to Islam as his entire family said he wasn't religious at all. But I'm sure you can do the math.
but then these people are not terrorists, the european syrian refugees are just normal religious minorities and dont affect every day life in europe. But shit I dont have a problem at all since i live in america.
and either way, why are you trying to broil down a killing to just plain numbers, at the end of the day a mass killing is a mass killing.
Honestly, its not the terrorists we should be afraid of, its the ideology, it is in need of a mass reform, and it does nothing but breed hate.
And secondly, why would homegrown terrorism or not matter? Americans getting killed is still americans getting killed.
An angry violent American does not have to be religious to be inspired by what Isis is doing. There actions empower evil people which gives those people the courage to commit these horrible murders.
but then these people are not terrorists, the european syrian refugees are just normal religious minorities and dont affect every day life in europe. But shit I dont have a problem at all since i live in america.
and either way, why are you trying to broil down a killing to just plain numbers, at the end of the day a mass killing is a mass killing.
Honestly, its not the terrorists we should be afraid of, its the ideology, it is in need of a mass reform, and it does nothing but breed hate.
And secondly, why would homegrown terrorism or not matter? Americans getting killed is still americans getting killed.
How much is it ISIS the violent rebel group vs ISIS the religious jihadist group that is inspiring people? Do you really think folks are acting based on a purely religious ideology, or is it more they want to belong to a movement they see as badass and powerful... so by association they are now badass and powerful?
I think is has much more to do with the second part. How bout you?
californiagrownHow much is it ISIS the violent rebel group vs ISIS the religious jihadist group that is inspiring people? Do you really think folks are acting based on a purely religious ideology, or is it more they want to belong to a movement they see as badass and powerful... so by association they are now badass and powerful?
I think is has much more to do with the second part. How bout you?
This is ultimately and unfortunately beyond our ability to know, and all we can do is judge them based on what they say their own motives are and the available evidence that either supports that or denies that. Right now, the evidence suggests that the vast majority of jihadists and Islamists do believe that dying for a cause is what they believe because you don't seem to find many people becoming martyrs simply because they desire to be a rebel. There's usually something more to it than that, and their ideology offers a perfect explanation of it, justification for it, and encourages it.
You, like many Muslims, are a moderately religious person, not a fanatic. Thus it would seem most plausible to you to understand these situations in a moderate way: i.e. that these people aren't truly fanatical about their beliefs, it must be something else, like the desire to rebel/be part of a movement. For some, that may very well be the case- I think it's totally possible. But martyrdom isn't something you believe in half-way. You can't sort of be a martyr, like you can sort of be a rebel. If people say they believe that martyrdom in the name of Allah is one of the greatest things we can achieve, and then they kill a bunch of people and take themselves with them, then yes I am going to believe them because their actions completely coincide with their beliefs. We should believe them when they say things like this, especially when there is evidence to back it up. However, if a self-proclaimed ISIS member/supporter/true believer is found eating pork and drinking beer while on a date with another man, then we'd be right to question his motives.
onenerdykidThis is ultimately and unfortunately beyond our ability to know, and all we can do is judge them based on what they say their own motives are and the available evidence that either supports that or denies that. Right now, the evidence suggests that the vast majority of jihadists and Islamists do believe that dying for a cause is what they believe because you don't seem to find many people becoming martyrs simply because they desire to be a rebel. There's usually something more to it than that, and their ideology offers a perfect explanation of it, justification for it, and encourages it.
You, like many Muslims, are a moderately religious person, not a fanatic. Thus it would seem most plausible to you to understand these situations in a moderate way: i.e. that these people aren't truly fanatical about their beliefs, it must be something else, like the desire to rebel/be part of a movement. For some, that may very well be the case- I think it's totally possible. But martyrdom isn't something you believe in half-way. You can't sort of be a martyr, like you can sort of be a rebel. If people say they believe that martyrdom in the name of Allah is one of the greatest things we can achieve, and then they kill a bunch of people and take themselves with them, then yes I am going to believe them because their actions completely coincide with their beliefs. We should believe them when they say things like this, especially when there is evidence to back it up. However, if a self-proclaimed ISIS member/supporter/true believer is found eating pork and drinking beer while on a date with another man, then we'd be right to question his motives.
Idk, fighting a war has always been romanticized for young men. When you have 100million disaffected youth looking for some way to feel important... war hero seems like a pretty solid choice.
I think the vast majority just needed a flag to fly as they fought.
Kinda similar to gang violence in the USA. You hear it all the time "I'd die for my clique"
californiagrownHow much is it ISIS the violent rebel group vs ISIS the religious jihadist group that is inspiring people? Do you really think folks are acting based on a purely religious ideology, or is it more they want to belong to a movement they see as badass and powerful... so by association they are now badass and powerful?
I think is has much more to do with the second part. How bout you?
Well isis, taliban, hezbolah etc... are both rebel and jihadist, so I don't know what you mean by that at all.
Second off, if you look at my articles I linked, these people are refugees, not militants, maybe some of them are. But how could we know, it would be racist to try to figure it out.
roddy116Well isis, taliban, hezbolah etc... are both rebel and jihadist, so I don't know what you mean by that at all.
Second off, if you look at my articles I linked, these people are refugees, not militants, maybe some of them are. it would be racist to try to figure it out.
Seperate the individual from the group. why did that individual join that group? Was it because he was a poverty stricken 15 year old who saw group members who had nice stuff, commanded respect through fear, and generally kicked ass and took names... or was it because that 15 year old was filled with the word of allah and moved to fight the infidel?
Obviously those are the two extremes, and there are lots of shades of gray, but you should get the point anyways.
I can't wait until the debates start. It will be very interesting to see both sides get ripped apart and look like absolute fools. I'm rooting for Trump hope he digs DEEP into Hillary's past with her scandals and criminal behavior
S.J.WRed and light red is non muslim. Blue and light blue is muslim. And that spike at the end includes the Pulse shooter, who at this point in time does not seem to be linked to Islam as his entire family said he wasn't religious at all. But I'm sure you can do the math.
I really have no idea of what you are trying to prove with those two charts, but I don’t think they have any weight in what you are trying to argue…
For the first chart, if Muslim is blue, I see a concerning increase in blue for the past 5-10 years. If the chart compares to all other mass shootings like I think it does, then yes I would see it that we have a big problem. Also so what if just a small (or not so small) portion of mass shootings are linked to Islam… Are we supposed to not care about this violence or what? Not getting your point.
For the second chart, if you add 49 deaths (for the Orlando attack) onto the jihadists plot, I think it would pass the nonjihadist plot for 2016 so far. But again what is your point?
I am concluding from what you have posted with your sources that Islamic extremism definitely has a concerning presence with violence in our world today. It is not the only thing we should be concerned about and try to fix, but if we can do something about it let’s do it.
californiagrownSeperate the individual from the group. why did that individual join that group? Was it because he was a poverty stricken 15 year old who saw group members who had nice stuff, commanded respect through fear, and generally kicked ass and took names... or was it because that 15 year old was filled with the word of allah and moved to fight the infidel?
Obviously those are the two extremes, and there are lots of shades of gray, but you should get the point anyways.
You make a good point and I agree that some of these individuals are joining for other reasons than just purely their religion, but it is the groups like ISIS that are recruiting these people. They know they can recruit poverty stricken 15 year olds so they do it. What is the root of the problem? It is the radical Islamic views that the extremist groups abide by. We will get nowhere with this issue if we don’t fight the root.
Sorry for an off the wall comparison, but if ISIS at the core was about charity and peace we would not have a problem.
S-S-KI really have no idea of what you are trying to prove with those two charts, but I don’t think they have any weight in what you are trying to argue…
For the first chart, if Muslim is blue, I see a concerning increase in blue for the past 5-10 years. If the chart compares to all other mass shootings like I think it does, then yes I would see it that we have a big problem. Also so what if just a small (or not so small) portion of mass shootings are linked to Islam… Are we supposed to not care about this violence or what? Not getting your point.
For the second chart, if you add 49 deaths (for the Orlando attack) onto the jihadists plot, I think it would pass the nonjihadist plot for 2016 so far. But again what is your point?
I am concluding from what you have posted with your sources that Islamic extremism definitely has a concerning presence with violence in our world today. It is not the only thing we should be concerned about and try to fix, but if we can do something about it let’s do it.
My entire point is that people are scared of Islamic terrorism but completely ignore other terrorist acts like they don't exist and focus upon this extremely small chance of being involved in a terrorist attack. It's also in the way we report terrorism. White shooters like Dylan Roof or Thomas Mair are labelled as mentally ill lone wolfs whereas people like Omar are labelled as terrorist and the entire religion is guilty. I haven't seen anyone tell UKIP to apologize for Thomas Mair's actions, but apparently muslims have to condone others in their religion. (they actually do)
Go on live your life being scared of islamic terrorism, i'm sure the government is just licking their lips at how far they can infringe upon your rights in the name of "counter terrorism".
milk_manAhh media hype. Hillary will need as much as that as she can get.
Honestly, she just needs not to be an idiot like, WHY THE FUCK IS HER HUSBAND MEETING WITH THE AG ON A PRIVATE PLANE?!? People already don't trust her, you would think she would want to avoid more controversy...
Other than that, Trump's lack of any semblance of a plan for his campaign should suffice.
I don't get why people wouldn't vote for Trump at this point. Would you rather have a "racist" (I say "racist" because that's what people say even though he is not) or a criminal in the White House?
36ChambersOfWuI don't get why people wouldn't vote for Trump at this point. Would you rather have a "racist" (I say "racist" because that's what people say even though he is not) or a criminal in the White House?
Easy choice people
Probably because his policies and plans are absolutely awful. And I don't just mean his wall.
For all Hillary/$hillary/Killary's foibles, mistakes, fuck ups, whatever you want to call them, she actually has legitimate policies and plans, even if you don't agree with them.
Trump's plans come off like they were written on the back of a napkin before his speeches. Not to mention most of them literally do not make sense/will not work.
36ChambersOfWuI don't get why people wouldn't vote for Trump at this point. Would you rather have a "racist" (I say "racist" because that's what people say even though he is not) or a criminal in the White House?
Easy choice people
And because there are going to be quite a few Supreme Court Justice seats that the next POTUS will have to fill. Trump has already given out his list. If you're even moderately socially liberal, the list is going to terrify you.
