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Race skier dad, freestyle son.

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toastyteenagers
Posts: 1834 - Karma: 6,793
My dad grew up in Minnesota, he loves race skis, when I picked up skiing 3 years ago, I was, and still am freestyle oriented. Here's my problem. I want some full tilt boots. He only rides 160 flex min. Boots. I love soft flex 70-80 boots. He will not let me ride FT boots because they're "too soft" what should I do?
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Jun 8 2014 12:55PM
145 51
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7147 - Karma: 17,493
Don't pick boots based off what you think I cool. Your dad is doin you a favour. Go get fitted and get some good boots that fit. They may be full tilt or they may be somthing else.

Also softer boots are not always good. Look at the boots that most pros where. The majority tend to wear stif boots even race boots so really your dad is probably in boots more like the pros.
Jun 8 2014 1:11PM
23 1
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*Leask*
Posts: 47 - Karma: 637
FT=BS, go try on boots blindfolded and find something thats comfy
Jun 8 2014 1:18PM
8 7
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Smuffy
Posts: 4686 - Karma: 3,408
Full tilts aren't BS, but aren't necessarily the answer. The super flexy FTs are in my opinion way too soft, chill with something at least 100 flex. just tell your dad youre a rebel punk and like to do hood rat shit
Jun 8 2014 1:25PM
27 1
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-SnowSnoli-
Posts: 756 - Karma: 1,703
tomPietrowskiDon't pick boots based off what you think I cool. Your dad is doin you a favour. Go get fitted and get some good boots that fit. They may be full tilt or they may be somthing else.

Also softer boots are not always good. Look at the boots that most pros where. The majority tend to wear stif boots even race boots so really your dad is probably in boots more like the pros.


Best advise you are going to get OP. 70-80 flex boots are like rental quality boots. Even as a freestyler you need control from stiff boot offerings. I believe most pro model boots are around 110/120 (for reference i.e T-wall FT comes with a flex 6 tongue, Head oblivion is 115/125/135, Atomic Overlord 120)

Obviously flex is preference, Just saying just because you are freestyle orientated doesn't mean you need noodley boots.
Jun 8 2014 1:35PM
2 1
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pigglywiggly
Posts: 4482 - Karma: 305
100% your mom.
Jun 8 2014 1:51PM
0 6
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VAPEOREON
Posts: 459 - Karma: 800
If you love them get them. Find a cheap pair on b/s/t and buy them yourself if you have to. Get the 6 flex with the boots if you plan on hitting big jumps or going way fast, but unless you are hitting 60 footers there is really no need for stiff boots. If hot rail laps and mellow jumps are what youre riding, there is no need for a stiffer flex, and if you end up hitting kickers, pop in the 6 flex.

The whole stigma about full tilts on ns lately is stupid. If you have slim feet, arches, and ride park, full tilts will be great for you. Ive seen people just as easily get scammed by poor bootfitters, who sell you the wrong boots for marked up prices. Definitely dont rule out boot fitters, but know you can go wrong with them just as easily as choosing blindly. If you already know you love soft flex and know theyre right for you, then get them yourself. Try them on in a store before ordering if you need to. Kids sell them for like $150 on bst because they can only ride the newest years gear, and summer is when it starts.
Jun 8 2014 3:28PM
6 9
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Daski
Posts: 658 - Karma: 2,348
I had 6 flex FTs and they sucked dick. They rode great but hurt my feet so much I ended up wandering around in bare feet in the snow just to dull the pain. Probably casue i have wide feet and super high arches, but reguardless. As everyone above has said, go to a boot fitter, and find something comfortable and get recomendations from people at the store, dont just pick what Henrik and Wally are riding just cause its cool, get something that works for you.
Jun 8 2014 3:42PM
3 1
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7147 - Karma: 17,493
VAPEOREONIf you love them get them. Find a cheap pair on b/s/t and buy them yourself if you have to. Get the 6 flex with the boots if you plan on hitting big jumps or going way fast, but unless you are hitting 60 footers there is really no need for stiff boots. If hot rail laps and mellow jumps are what youre riding, there is no need for a stiffer flex, and if you end up hitting kickers, pop in the 6 flex.

The whole stigma about full tilts on ns lately is stupid. If you have slim feet, arches, and ride park, full tilts will be great for you. Ive seen people just as easily get scammed by poor bootfitters, who sell you the wrong boots for marked up prices. Definitely dont rule out boot fitters, but know you can go wrong with them just as easily as choosing blindly. If you already know you love soft flex and know theyre right for you, then get them yourself. Try them on in a store before ordering if you need to. Kids sell them for like $150 on bst because they can only ride the newest years gear, and summer is when it starts.


Do not do this. Sure some boot fitters are not great but you will always be better at least getting fitted in a shop then buying randomly. Also don't buy second hand boots. Liners only last 120-150 days so unless the boots are new you may not get much life out of the boots.

Boots are your most important piece of kit so don't skimp go get fitted properly.

And lastly with regards to flex there is much more to choosin the right flex then the type of skiing you do. Your biomechanics will be the biggest factor in what will work.
Jun 8 2014 7:18PM
7 1
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7481 - Karma: 11,492
As some wise person once said on this forum:

Boots are like a wife, you find the best one out there cause you'll end up with her for a while.
Jun 8 2014 7:39PM
8 0
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elm.
Posts: 1492 - Karma: 13,497
tomPietrowskiLiners only last 120-150 days so unless the boots are new you may not get much life out of the boots.


i don't know about that
Jun 8 2014 8:32PM
4 4
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7481 - Karma: 11,492
smellsi don't know about that


Its true. I believe companies like Zipfit, Intuition, and Surefoot have done studies on it.
Jun 8 2014 8:39PM
2 1
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7147 - Karma: 17,493
smellsi don't know about that


In general that is about the life span you can expect. A stock liner should last around 150 days, an intuition a little less at 120 and foam injection will generally be the longest but still not more then 200 days.

So depending how many days you ride you could conceivably go through a liner in a season.
Jun 8 2014 8:43PM
2 1
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Lemuel
Posts: 14487 - Karma: 10,635
-SnowSnoli-I believe most pro model boots are around 110/120 (for reference i.e T-wall FT comes with a flex 6 tongue, Head oblivion is 115/125/135, Atomic Overlord 120)


FT 6 flex is nowhere near 110/120. It's more like 80 max. Way too soft.
Jun 8 2014 10:51PM
1 1
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LOLZfajitas
Posts: 393 - Karma: 1,054
i like soft boots, i usually just wear the liner only, ive had problems with the bindings but nothing glue, duck tape and zip ties cant fix
Jun 8 2014 11:04PM
3 2
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John18_6
Posts: 7313 - Karma: 49,163
It's hard to race ski in Minnesota, 300ft vert and very few of the hills are as steep as most race courses. I don't know how your dad could possibly think 160 flex is comfortable growing up riding pure ice.
Jun 8 2014 11:30PM
5 0
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VAPEOREON
Posts: 459 - Karma: 800
tomPietrowskiwith regards to flex there is much more to choosin the right flex then the type of skiing you do.


Op already said he loves the 70-80 flex so he has had experience with that flex type before and determined they work for him and fit his style of riding. This is why the post isnt even asking whether he should get FT or not, he is asking how to convince his dad. Somehow FTmongers manage to completely derail every thread with any mention of fulltilt with posts exactly like this.

As i said, if your dad doesnt want to buy you the boots, just earn money and get them yourself. If you have enough to get brand new then do it, but used is always an option. Look for un-heatmolded liners or get new liners and keep the shell if youre liner particular. Also liner life, like most other ski gear, depends solely on how hard of a park rat/ski bum you are. If youre someone who sticks coffee sleeves under your boots to make your bindings fit then youre probably someone willing to ride on flat/cold/smelly liners
Jun 8 2014 11:46PM
1 2
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BChaps1209
Posts: 1350 - Karma: 2,441
switch to racing
Jun 8 2014 11:58PM
3 0
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TZA.
Posts: 1462 - Karma: 181
you should fucking grow a pair
Jun 8 2014 11:58PM
2 2
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PsychedelicMoose
Posts: 792 - Karma: 3,568
Buy your own damn boots in a post season sale, that's what I did. Stop relying on your parents to buy you everything.
Jun 9 2014 12:04AM
3 0
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7147 - Karma: 17,493
VAPEOREONOp already said he loves the 70-80 flex so he has had experience with that flex type before and determined they work for him and fit his style of riding. This is why the post isnt even asking whether he should get FT or not, he is asking how to convince his dad. Somehow FTmongers manage to completely derail every thread with any mention of fulltilt with posts exactly like this.

As i said, if your dad doesnt want to buy you the boots, just earn money and get them yourself. If you have enough to get brand new then do it, but used is always an option. Look for un-heatmolded liners or get new liners and keep the shell if youre liner particular. Also liner life, like most other ski gear, depends solely on how hard of a park rat/ski bum you are. If youre someone who sticks coffee sleeves under your boots to make your bindings fit then youre probably someone willing to ride on flat/cold/smelly liners

Just because he has worn soft boots does not mean it's the best thing for him. He may just have no experience with anything else. It may well be in a slightly stiffer more responsive boot he would have even more fun.

But that is the point. He needs to go to a fitter to determin what will work for him. Who knows maybe he will end up in a pair of full tilts but he may find that te shape does not work for him. Full tilt use a weird sizing system too so it may be that the sizing does not work for him. Basically without going and getting fitted it's all just guess work.

It's for this reason I recommended he go get fitted.
Jun 9 2014 12:06AM
3 1
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MLJ
Posts: 1849 - Karma: 3,649
The referenced post has been removed.


Don't skimp out and go to a shop. Do you want to have cool boots but a shit time skiing, ruining what it is about, and making your feet in so much pain you cant ski, or get boots fitted that fit 100%, and you will know that they will be great.
Jun 9 2014 2:37AM
0 1
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OGoriginal-gaper
Posts: 354 - Karma: 86
get a job and pay for them yourself
Jun 9 2014 3:06AM
2 1
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Skiingsnow
Posts: 1567 - Karma: 797
OGoriginal-gaperget a job and pay for them yourself


His dad is going to pay for his boots are your advice is to get a job and pay for them himself?? Fucking lol. That's terrible advice.

OP, listen to your dad, ride the parent money train as long as you possibly can!

And get some real boots, from a boot fitter.
Jun 9 2014 3:42AM
2 2
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-SnowSnoli-
Posts: 756 - Karma: 1,703
SweetumsFT 6 flex is nowhere near 110/120. It's more like 80 max. Way too soft.


From onenerdykid in another FT thread:

Here's the best breakdown:
#10 tongue = about a 140 traditional flex
#8 tongue = about a 125/130
#6 tongue = about a 100/110
#4 tongue = about 80

That's all I was going off for full tilt.
Jun 9 2014 5:15AM
2 1
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Skiingsnow
Posts: 1567 - Karma: 797
-SnowSnoli-From onenerdykid in another FT thread:

Here's the best breakdown:
#10 tongue = about a 140 traditional flex
#8 tongue = about a 125/130
#6 tongue = about a 100/110
#4 tongue = about 80

That's all I was going off for full tilt.


I find this impossible to believe, Ive never had full tilts but I have had B tongue dalbellos and im now in a lange 140, there is no way any full tilt boot is stiff than a 120, and im am aware boot flexes are not a standardised measurement but i refuse to beleive that a #10 id anything close to a 140 flex
Jun 9 2014 7:42AM
1 1
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lelandsdad
Posts: 196 - Karma: 340
-SnowSnoli-From onenerdykid in another FT thread:

Here's the best breakdown:
#10 tongue = about a 140 traditional flex
#8 tongue = about a 125/130
#6 tongue = about a 100/110
#4 tongue = about 80

That's all I was going off for full tilt.


This is right on. I ski FT Seth's with a #8 and my son has FT's with #4's (he's 80lbs). I'm a former racer and used to ski super stiff plug boots but wanted to mellow down a bit with the #8's. The key with FT's is that they all have the same lateral stiffness (your dad should appreciate that)so you can get good edge control. Then skier weight and type is dialed in with the flex of the tongues. If your light or prefer a softer forward flex for freestyle you don't sacrifice any lateral stiffness/control like you would with a traditional boot which mainly gets it flex from the plastic. We both have narrow feet/ankles and FT's work for us. The progressive flex is different than traditional overlap boots. We find the FT's (with Booster straps) to be great especially for landing large jumps (35-50). If your dad can't get over the racer thing (I did) show him a picture of Bill Johnson winning the Olympic downhill at Sarajevo in 1984 on Raichle Flexons.
Jun 9 2014 8:37AM
2 0
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7147 - Karma: 17,493
lelandsdadThis is right on. I ski FT Seth's with a #8 and my son has FT's with #4's (he's 80lbs). I'm a former racer and used to ski super stiff plug boots but wanted to mellow down a bit with the #8's. The key with FT's is that they all have the same lateral stiffness (your dad should appreciate that)so you can get good edge control. Then skier weight and type is dialed in with the flex of the tongues. If your light or prefer a softer forward flex for freestyle you don't sacrifice any lateral stiffness/control like you would with a traditional boot which mainly gets it flex from the plastic. We both have narrow feet/ankles and FT's work for us. The progressive flex is different than traditional overlap boots. We find the FT's (with Booster straps) to be great especially for landing large jumps (35-50). If your dad can't get over the racer thing (I did) show him a picture of Bill Johnson winning the Olympic downhill at Sarajevo in 1984 on Raichle Flexons.


If you like the lateral stiffness of your current boots next time you go get fitted have a try of some of the atomic carbon cuffed boots. The lateral stiffness in those is incredible. I was amazed at the difference when I swapped to them and having a range of fits from 95-101mm means there are good fit options too and with the memory shell now the fit is even better.
Jun 9 2014 10:21AM
2 0
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johnblaze
Posts: 1477 - Karma: 2,598
boot flex index varies by manufacture 160 lange isn't the same as 160 salomon or same as 160 FT..and your dad is right.
Jun 9 2014 7:08PM
0 2
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