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Judges at Winter X and Sochi holding back progression

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holla@cha_boy
Posts: 58 - Karma: 348
Obviously the judges at Winter X will be going to Sochi for the Olympics so it gave everyone a foreshadow of what will happen in a few weeks. After watching to the events at X, the judges were mainly giving points for execution and style.

It began with Big Air when Elias Ambühl received hardly any points for throwing down a deep triple. Why? Because he landed a little backseat after sending it way past the sweet spot. I guess going deep doesn't mean anything anymore?

Then it happened again today at slopestyle. Countless riders were throwing down sick runs with some serious tech in them and kept receiving terrible scores for tiny bobbles or not so perfect landings. Gus Kenworthy was robbed out of a podium after sending it deep on a triple. He was put about 5 spots behind a guy who did a run I could see 2 years ago..

So this need for perfection and style is now above all else. Don't get me wrong, I think style is what freeskiing is all about. But does a very stylish Kangaroo flip score higher than a triple 1440 with a shaky landing because he went deep into the landing? When you're throwing down some serious tech and tricks no one has done before then of course the landings won't be perfect.

Who needs triples anymore? You can win Winter X with some perfect landings and stylish tricks. Dumont, get better quick because your superman flip is the future!
Jan 26 2014 6:10PM
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holla@cha_boy
Posts: 58 - Karma: 348
Seems like a lot of people disagree haha would like to hear a counter for this

And to clear something up, I don't believe this halts all progression. Skiers will still push and send it in training and videos. I believe this will stop the progression when they are competing. Why attempt a trick you never tried when you can throw something easier you know you can land perfect and get a better score.

Judges need to re-evaluate their judging criteria
Jan 26 2014 9:06PM
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sammyk
Posts: 436 - Karma: 131
I do agree somewhat.  The judging was spotty at best.  Goepper's first run today not taking the lead did not make much sense.  Like he did a fucking triple for second time in slope history and the judges looked at the way he landed and took points away for it. 

Also, when they had the head judge on after each score was posted it seemed like he just did not know what he was talking about...just giving random ass reasons as to why the group of fuckbags up there thought they didn't like the run.

As to how it may hurt progression, i doubt it will have too much of an affect.  Look at how many people had triples this year compared to last year, crazy bump up
Jan 26 2014 9:14PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
Clearly you don't.

Let me ask you this: What's more progressive, a hucked, shakily landed triple cork 1440, or a double cork 1080 with a grab variation nobody has seen before and a clean landing?
Jan 26 2014 9:15PM
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DrZoidberg
Posts: 5675 - Karma: 4,268
They did, some might say.

That's why it was like that this year. Last year everybody complained about the judges for only wanting more spins and flips. Now they seemed to say if you're gonna spin 5 times, you better do it cleanly and with style too. And they were cool with a perfectly executed dub 1440 with a great grab.

Why not require it all? They do right now, I guess.. If you're gonna do a triple, do it nicely, and your dubs better be grabbed all the way and landings need to be clean on everything. People talk about this like you can't have style and tech at the same time. That's false.
Jan 26 2014 9:15PM
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DBL
Posts: 1405 - Karma: 2,218
ABM got way underscored in big air for the switch triple cork 12's and 14's. It almost seemed that if the grab was week and a slight bobble on the landing meant a shitty score. Also, gus did a fucking switch triple and its like the judges didn't even notice. I think Colby's video is what actually happens up in that booth
Jan 26 2014 9:26PM
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skier_07
Posts: 326 - Karma: 51
I think this is especially true when you look at the women's skiing. Why throw a 900 and a switch 10 when the little bit stylier 5 and 7 will beat it.. Kaya's jumps weren't that much stylier and they were just safety grabs.. Shouldn't have beat Voisin.. Gus even tweeted his opinion abt it saying Voisin and Howell should have been 1 and 2
Jan 26 2014 9:27PM
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FerrisBueller
Posts: 8280 - Karma: 5,173
Ha! you're full of shit! McRae's run was fucking flawless and the judges have a sense for style and execution and don't give a fuck about tripples and shit, there are still so many doubles to be done to progress the sport...
Jan 26 2014 9:27PM
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holla@cha_boy
Posts: 58 - Karma: 348
If I was a competitor in slope today and my triple was 50/50 on landing it, i wouldn't even think twice about throwing it. Judges were not rewarding tech at all.

My issue with the judges is they want too much perfection. It should not be a throw away run if you came off the rail 1 foot too soon

It reminds me of the t-hall dumont debate in the pipe back in the day. It was amplitude vs tech but at least both furthered the sport.
Jan 26 2014 10:31PM
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myllhouse
Posts: 1064 - Karma: 2,157
The highest level competitors, coming up short on a down rail.

Let those words sink in while 12 year olds at local hills get 4s on/lock it in every try.
Jan 26 2014 10:40PM
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holla@cha_boy
Posts: 58 - Karma: 348
like i said before when youre attempting high level of tricks, it's not going to be 100% perfect

apparently mr kenworthy understands what i'm trying to say:
Click for larger imageClick for larger image
Jan 27 2014 11:28AM
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Turkelton
Posts: 2829 - Karma: 8,558
Elias can only cork. Ever seen him do anything else or anything with personal style? So uncreative and no style at all, nothing personal pumped into his skiing
Jan 27 2014 11:44AM
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b-kul
Posts: 4350 - Karma: 1,111
triples were being put down flawlessly. so of course a shakey triple wouldnt score as well.
Jan 27 2014 2:18PM
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Blurst
Posts: 13577 - Karma: 10,169
who says progression is adding another spin or flip to an already existing trick or axis?
Jan 27 2014 2:20PM
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holla@cha_boy
Posts: 58 - Karma: 348
tbh i'm almost shocked at how many people agree with the judges.

for me i love style when i'm out skiing with friends or just having fun. for contest i believe the most difficult run should win. obviously with some shades of gray with in there
Jan 27 2014 3:18PM
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Twig
Posts: 6409 - Karma: 60,051
I agree with the judges (not a sentence I ever thought Id say about Xgames judges) but I think they were spot on in big air and slope.

If the execution judging limits spin to win, then maybe just maybe, slopestyle could stay vaguely true to its roots and wont die on its feet like aerials in a couple of years.

(p.s. my apostrophe key is broken, sue me.)
Jan 27 2014 3:26PM
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mski
Posts: 4791 - Karma: 3,803
No way! Big air was judged pretty well I thought. Henrik seemed to be the only one who really had a strategy for the event (even though it was to nose trip again ftw) He was throwing flawless switch butter dubs with locked grabs.

Is progression another flip or number of rotations? I think they have a good formula, and honestly if Jossi would have landed that triple in finals he could have taken it.

Also on the progression tip I think it can go any direction. Henrik VS Gus VS Vincent are three totally different styles progressing in their own aspects. Ultimately the contest is whoever has the best/most consistent presentation of their style and skills.
Jan 27 2014 4:42PM
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Toomuchie
Posts: 94 - Karma: 13
For free skiing to grow in its natural pace it's most important that contest skiing is judged with execution as the most essential element.
Jan 27 2014 5:27PM
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holla@cha_boy
Posts: 58 - Karma: 348
see i 100% disagree with that statement. it should be an element but the most important one
Jan 27 2014 6:21PM
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NPRM
Posts: 689 - Karma: 339
Just because Gus took a "deep" tripple doesnt mean anything, it wasnt as styley as Nicks and thats just a fact, he opens up and it is not as good, just because he threw a tripple in a slopestyle run doesnt mean shit anymore, you saw how many athletes have tripples in their bags, theres really nothing about a tripple that is "wow" anymore, same with ABM's he didnt stomp any of them and some were fairly sloppy, granted it was a tripple but obviously judges want to see sick ass style more than an extra rotation
Jan 27 2014 7:05PM
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NotGhood
Posts: 2809 - Karma: 1,255
The judges were simply trying not to reward triples so much that they effectively penalized Gus for throwing one

Hopefully they learn from the public outrage at their super shitty efforts this weekend and do better for the olympics
Jan 27 2014 7:14PM
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holla@cha_boy
Posts: 58 - Karma: 348
a few years ago going deep meant a lot
Jan 27 2014 7:17PM
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Toomuchie
Posts: 94 - Karma: 13
When competing in a sport where your mind decides what is possible, should it not be how well the athlete performs its minds fantasy that counts the most, rather then praise the ones who did not perform their fantasy to its fullest?
Jan 27 2014 7:28PM
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olly-oz
Posts: 59 - Karma: 395
haha you are exactly what the russians and chinese are looking for in a judge. if we had it your way we would just have a bunch of crazyriders throwing shady triples way to far, and eventually get a lot of injuries.

Please show me this run you are refering to that you could have seen 2 years ago?
Jan 27 2014 7:32PM
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SSteezle
Posts: 9297 - Karma: 7,719
didn't read the whole thread, but there's no reason gus shouldn't have podium'd with that run. If there's anyone that get consistently fucked every year by the judges it's gus
Jan 27 2014 7:48PM
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edai
Posts: 4988 - Karma: 4,658
Wallisch set the bar high I guess, at this level, the judges want it all.
Jan 27 2014 8:02PM
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holla@cha_boy
Posts: 58 - Karma: 348
simply put, difficult tricks and serious tech will not be as perfect as a stezzy flat 5. Judges now think that it should be and if not it counts as a fall. They want too much perfection
Jan 27 2014 8:09PM
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