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Calling All Atheists

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Olimar
Posts: 3535 - Karma: 4,076
***First off I just want to say im not trying to start a shit storm by any means although unfortunately, one is most likely imminent.

I just have a quick question for you. I'm a practicing Catholic. That being said, Im not some radical, fundamentalist that tries to shove religion or God down peoples throats. Please re-read that last statement before you try to post some smart comment. But any way, Im NOT a creationist. I believe in evolution and the big bang theory simply because evolution has been proven and the big bang theory is the most plausible explanation for how our universe came to exist. But my question for all the atheists that dont believe in any god at all, is how did that hot, microscopic ball of gasses and other matter come about? Once again, im just curious to hear how atheists explain this or if the majority of them believe in a different theory of how the universe first came about. Im not trying to push religion on any one.
Nov 15 2012 6:30PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
I'm not a big fan of pretentious atheists but op don't fuck with science
Nov 16 2012 10:06AM
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.AR6rider.
Posts: 15976 - Karma: 8,799
How can something exist without ever having been created? That seems like a paradox. Unless you're alluding that god was some sort of byproduct of string theory, existing since the beginning of the universe as we know it. However, I suppose in that case, god still would have been "created."
Nov 16 2012 10:32AM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
doesnt make sense for physics as we know it, but god is all-powerful. i dont think the normal rules apply to him. i bet a lot of religious people would argue that god created our idea of physics/time, but exists outside of them himself
Nov 16 2012 10:51AM
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howlongcanausern
Posts: 4982 - Karma: 1,737
human logic
Nov 16 2012 10:57AM
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cbj
Posts: 2114 - Karma: 1,136
Case closed. Can we move on to a new subject?
Nov 16 2012 10:59AM
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.frenchy
Posts: 18221 - Karma: 12,323
Who would of thought a fuck like you would be atheist... oh wait.
Nov 16 2012 11:21AM
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.AR6rider.
Posts: 15976 - Karma: 8,799
Just because I present arguments against the existence of god does not necessarily mean I 100% do not believe in him/her/it. I just hate people who refuse to see both sides of an argument, which happens to be the majority of people who were raised to be strictly religious. My dad is Jewish and my mom is Catholic. I was raised as a Jew, but my parents never forced me to go to temple and let me believe what I wanted to believe. I went to Sunday school every week as a kid and learned all the religious teachings, I had my bar mitzvah, and I've done a lot of community service within the Jewish community. Guess what? I still believe in the power of science and medicine over "religious miracles" and "god's will." I suppose that's why I'm studying to be a doctor and not a Rabbi. To each his own. Fuck you for being such a closed-minded religious shit head.
Nov 16 2012 11:39AM
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brosephstalin
Posts: 429 - Karma: 8
You're a scrub, gtfo.
Nov 16 2012 12:37PM
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brosephstalin
Posts: 429 - Karma: 8
Lol you're not even a real catholic, gtfo.
Nov 16 2012 12:38PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
what you conveniently seem to be forgetting is that god is all-powerful. matter is not. matter is just the stuff that makes everything. god exists outside the normal rules of physics. matter doesn't.
Nov 16 2012 12:58PM
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.AR6rider.
Posts: 15976 - Karma: 8,799
Prove to me that matter is not all powerful and cannot exist outside the realm of known physics.
Nov 16 2012 1:06PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
haha i can't, obviously. like i said, i'm not religious. but, according to christianity and such, god is all-powerful and created our known universe and all the laws of physics that we have to follow. god exists outside of our universe, he doesn't have to follow the rules. matter, which exists inside our universe, does. does god exist? i dont know. but, if he does, that's how he can be infinite despite it not making sense in terms of the laws of physics as we understand them
Nov 16 2012 1:25PM
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mthoodz
Posts: 39 - Karma: 10
hey help me out sign thishttp://wh.gov/X9Mq
Nov 16 2012 1:27PM
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cbj
Posts: 2114 - Karma: 1,136
You have a point.
Nov 16 2012 1:27PM
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Gnarbangalakazoo
Posts: 561 - Karma: 262
Only if you can prove string theory.
Nov 16 2012 1:31PM
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Gnarbangalakazoo
Posts: 561 - Karma: 262
Which I think is highly possible by the way.
Nov 16 2012 1:35PM
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.AR6rider.
Posts: 15976 - Karma: 8,799
So for all you know, matter IS all-powerful, DOES exist outside our universe, and does NOT have to follow the rules of conventional physics. Matter is therefore infinite and existed without being created, because it is everything and nothing. It is the god we need, but not the god we deserve right now, so we will believe in a mystical fairy man who lives in the sky, because matter can take it.
Nov 16 2012 1:36PM
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cbj
Posts: 2114 - Karma: 1,136
10/10 for Batman
Nov 16 2012 1:37PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
yes, for all i know. what's your point? not sure what you're trying to prove anymore. unless that was just for the batman reference. in which case, well done
Nov 16 2012 1:42PM
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.AR6rider.
Posts: 15976 - Karma: 8,799
You keep stating that the reason god is able to "exist" without ever being created by something else is becuase he is "all-powerful," and matter is not. You can't prove this, so how can you definitively make that statement? It goes back to my original point that nothing can exist without having a beginning or start or creation or whatever the fuck you want to call it. That is impossible.
Nov 16 2012 1:50PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
isn't god, by definition, all-powerful? you said you went to temple/church as a kid. isn't that what it says in the torah/bible?
Nov 16 2012 1:58PM
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cbj
Posts: 2114 - Karma: 1,136
Yeah. If he existed.
Nov 16 2012 1:59PM
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.AR6rider.
Posts: 15976 - Karma: 8,799
All-powerful does not mean you can just simply exist without being created. Even if god has existed for an infinite amount of time, at one point you had to start counting from 0 to get there.
Nov 16 2012 2:10PM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11661 - Karma: 24,354
This is stupid. You are all stupid.
Nov 16 2012 2:11PM
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cbj
Posts: 2114 - Karma: 1,136
What if it starts at -infinity?
Nov 16 2012 2:12PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
lol at the idea that space-time has a beginning
Nov 16 2012 2:18PM
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king.tubby
Posts: 2865 - Karma: 122
absolutely. my dad is a pastor and believes in evolution. not that uncommon
Nov 16 2012 2:53PM
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Casey
Posts: 7847 - Karma: 24,309
No one knows /thread
Nov 16 2012 2:58PM
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squashmosh
Posts: 632 - Karma: 565
All the leaps of faith you have to make to believe in god are the same ones you have to make to believe in the Big Bang/physics/science at large. They are just different language systems and currently science as a discourse has more power and this so called validity.

I don't favor either in that I practice a no theistic spirituality. But I think they are both relevant ways that people try to understand existence. Just like for Natives it was the world on a turtles back.

Anyway of explaining something takes a leap of faith into the abstract realm of language.
Nov 16 2012 2:58PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
i thought that just kind of came as part of the "all-powerful" package? but you probably know more than i do since you went to church and temple when you were young, so i'll trust that you're right and i'm wrong.

i'm starting to feel weird arguing for god, so fuck it.

i think you raise the point in how to logically disprove god. even if god has existed forever, as in since negative infinity, then wouldn't it be impossible for him to ever get to the point at which he creates earth/our universe? he would have had to exist for an infinite amount of time before he did so, and, since infinity is forever, he would have to exist forever before he could create us. i hope we can all agree that that is logically impossible. so, either something existed before god, or he never created earth
Nov 16 2012 3:00PM
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Dragonite.
Posts: 1657 - Karma: 431
Every higher being in existence is facepalmimg. Way to go OP
Nov 16 2012 3:23PM
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squashmosh
Posts: 632 - Karma: 565
Dur "matter cannot be created or destroyed"

So god has to be created but everything else in existence can just appear out of the void and recycle itself?
Nov 16 2012 3:37PM
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.AR6rider.
Posts: 15976 - Karma: 8,799
Within a closed system. I thought we were now in agreement that the universe is infinite and, therefore, not a closed system.
Nov 16 2012 3:40PM
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squashmosh
Posts: 632 - Karma: 565
Exactly! AR is fighting against science just as much as God
Nov 16 2012 3:42PM
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.AR6rider.
Posts: 15976 - Karma: 8,799
Also, would you not consider the rearrangement of mass/matter "creation?" Surely the earth has not existed infinitely. If I take 4,000 Lego blocks and build a castle, would you not say that I created that castle? Perhaps god is nothing more than a rearrangement of some sort of energy, but that rearrangement would imply creation from something else nonetheless.
Nov 16 2012 3:43PM
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squashmosh
Posts: 632 - Karma: 565
But religion argues that god is the infinite and therefore not a part of a closed system

So no I'm not in agreement. I still think its just two different forms of logic and at this point we hold one to be more accurate than the other.
Nov 16 2012 3:45PM
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squashmosh
Posts: 632 - Karma: 565
No I don't consider it creation in one sense.

Yes I consider it creation in another sense.

Yes you can rearrange things that already exist to make your Lego castle but the fact remains that 1. It was only possible because those component parts already existed and 2. You, who is matter and your thought to create it were apart of a neurological system made possible by matter and its dynamic properties, are just a functioning part if that system of matter exchanges.
Nov 16 2012 3:49PM
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GaryColeman
Posts: 248 - Karma: 380
One of my teachers told us today that half of americans believe that the world is only 10,000 years old. I mean wtf? i guess half of america is retarded.
Nov 16 2012 8:44PM
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GaryColeman
Posts: 248 - Karma: 380
^^ because of religion
Nov 16 2012 8:46PM
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cbj
Posts: 2114 - Karma: 1,136
That'd be a pretty bold claim there young sir. Half of America is not retarded.

Half of America is very uneducated, ignorant and slightly mislead about the origin of the man/ universe/ life/ etc. Although, there are religious fanatics in every country.
Nov 16 2012 10:11PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10627 - Karma: 7,423
your just as bad as the people that chose not to learn and decide for themselves.
Nov 16 2012 10:12PM
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Bill.Nye
Posts: 4060 - Karma: 2,109
They allow themselves to be misled. The good information is out there, they seek out the bullshit to reinforce the beliefs they already hold.
Nov 16 2012 10:17PM
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cbj
Posts: 2114 - Karma: 1,136
How so? I went on a path and discovered what I believe, did my research and found the most logical, plausable answer. I went to a christian youth camp in the summer and learned all about Jesus and God. I don't hate the idea of religion(christianity), I frankly like it, I just do not think it is plausable.

I never said they were bad people, I was meaning to call them ignorant targeted as the ones who will not even open their eyes to other methods of thinking.

It wasn't an attack against America, there are tons of the same people in Canada and Europe and even more so in the middle east.

I don't have a problem with the people who are sure of their faiths that have looked into other notions (science / evolution). At least they weren't ignorant of science.
Nov 16 2012 10:22PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10627 - Karma: 7,423
really now?
Nov 16 2012 10:26PM
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cbj
Posts: 2114 - Karma: 1,136
Really really. I can't tell which part of my post you are refuting.
Nov 16 2012 10:32PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10627 - Karma: 7,423
your calling people ignorant because they choose to believe in a higher power, something that doesnt make sense, thus making you feel smarter, and you call people stupid for that.
Nov 16 2012 10:35PM
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Bill.Nye
Posts: 4060 - Karma: 2,109
No, he's calling people that believe the world was created within the last 10k years and that humans didn't evolve ignorant, because they are.
Nov 16 2012 10:36PM
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cbj
Posts: 2114 - Karma: 1,136
No. You're missing the point. I'm calling the ones who believe in a higher power without a doubt ignorant.

And I never called them stupid, not once. Being uneducated and misled is a lot different than stupid.
Nov 16 2012 10:37PM
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cbj
Posts: 2114 - Karma: 1,136
And this lol.
Nov 16 2012 10:38PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10627 - Karma: 7,423
you believe that people are misled (believing in god) stupid? then you are also calling them ignorant.
Nov 16 2012 10:38PM
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