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Which 190+cm agressive, yet playful pow ski?

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TijmenDal
Posts: 4849 - Karma: 1,295
Guys,

Need some advice on which pow ski to get for next season. Anything from half a foot to 2 feet of fresh.

The main thing is the length. Needs to be AT LEAST 190cm+, rather a bit longer, otherwise it will be too small for me.
I'm 6'4"/200lbs.
Expert skier/ski teacher, with good technique and agressive style.

I want it to be an agressive ski, that can handle big lines and which is still stable. I also want it to be able nimble for tighter spaces/trees. Being able to throw 3's would be an extra, but not mandatory.

I don't care about landing switch in pow.

I don't care about on-piste performance


So far I've been looking at/thinking about:
- 191 On3p Billy Goat
- 193 On3p C&D
- 195 Ak JJ
- 196 Moment Bibby
- 192 Bent Chetler

Other suggestions? What would you guys recommend to me?

May 29 2012 8:27AM
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TijmenDal
Posts: 4849 - Karma: 1,295
Forgot to add, I'm mainly looking for something in the 110-120mm range. I have a 125mm ski right now, and I find it a bit too wide actually...
May 29 2012 8:35AM
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Jaggy_Snake
Posts: 2287 - Karma: 1,418
From your list, and what you want to be able to do I think you can cross the C&D off your list. It's 129 underfoot and has a big turn radius which I believe won't be as effective around the trees as say the Billy Goat.

The C&D however will be good for charging the big lines and is stiff enough to remain stable.

I don't know enough about the others to offer any advice on, but I'm sure there are others that will be able to.

May 29 2012 8:54AM
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jrmaclennan
Posts: 1 - Karma: 10
rocker2 by salomon
May 29 2012 8:54AM
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max61195
Posts: 370 - Karma: 153

AK JJ.

they are great skis. ive also heard great things about the atomic BC.

dont know much about the others sorry.

May 29 2012 8:56AM
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hokkanee
Posts: 1800 - Karma: 435
The new Billygoat seems like the perfect ski for you based on your description of what you want.
May 29 2012 10:11AM
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TimRiley
Posts: 1873 - Karma: 1,327

Ginko$$ This guy works for on3p and was super cool when I pm'd him with some questions about the goats. Might want to reach out to him.

May 29 2012 11:00AM
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Session
Posts: 5379 - Karma: 22,164
Faced with the same quandry, I went with the 191 BG. It basically makes up for all the flaws that a ski like the JJ or BC have. Bomber construction!
May 29 2012 11:13AM
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Tom_h_n
Posts: 10 - Karma: 10
I've got a pair of Liberty Double-Helixs that are 121mm underfoot, but ski super playfully, and still can shred big pow fields, probably at their best in the trees i feel. Love them to bits, i ride 182s but i think they come longer, the longer makes them feel a lot shorter than the length suggest though.
May 29 2012 11:20AM
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Literature
Posts: 13673 - Karma: 3,085
191 Billygoat, hands down.

It pivots super easily, is balanced in the air, and you won't find a condition where it's totally out of its element. If you've never had the chance to ski on bamboo, you're in for a real treat--it's damp, but also very springy, which leads to a ski that charges but still likes to play.
May 29 2012 11:48AM
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ikindalikeskiing
Posts: 1381 - Karma: 142
Yea I'm gonna have to go with the BG also... JJ's and BC's are more playful but aren't the best for charging
May 29 2012 1:07PM
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DUKES
Posts: 5150 - Karma: 691
next years 192 opus
May 29 2012 1:13PM
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TheWakes.
Posts: 685 - Karma: 235
ak jj is 125 so u might think its too wide. u also might look at the 189 pettitor. dont be fooled by the number, k2s run a little longer.
May 29 2012 1:14PM
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DUKES
Posts: 5150 - Karma: 691
the ak is 120 underfoot. the petitor is also 120. and k2 has recently changed their measuring on their pow skis. for example the new hellbent measures 189 true instead of 193
May 29 2012 1:25PM
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flexpattern
Posts: 1090 - Karma: 45
I've skied the JJs and the bentchetlers.

The difference I found out of the two is that the bentchetlers require a more active skiing technique on hard snow, where as the jjs you can be really lazy and the ski can carve for you -

In the powder they both are really similar.

My guess is that that you'll be skiing in Europe and probably will meet a lot of sudden changes in terrain and snow conditions, from pow, to crud to groomers. Both the the JJs and BCs are great everywhere. I personally prefer the JJs, but my brother skis the BCs.

Like i said the BCs require way more work on piste than the jjs, the jjs are my "everyday ski" (ie when i'm not in the park or its super slushy) as they are pretty good on piste and everywhere. The JJs carve better than my walls on hard snow!!

Haven't skied ON3ps (send them to europe guys!!) so can't comment there. Hope that helps :)

References:
Skied all over the world for 19 years +
Own JJs and brother has BCs


May 29 2012 1:47PM
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flexpattern
Posts: 1090 - Karma: 45
Just saw you don't care about on piste performance.

whoops, but the only real difference that I found between the BCs and JJs is that the JJs have better on piste performance.

I think you should care about on piste unless you are going to out be cat skiing all the time

May 29 2012 1:53PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
We found a good retailer out in Sweden next year, http://www.skistore.se/sv/

And I'd put you on 191 BG's, maybe go with the Tour version if you want less weight and added maneuverability in lieu of extra stability in chop.
May 29 2012 2:05PM
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Dr.Gnar
Posts: 896 - Karma: 197
No. I have them and they are relatively soft and hardly agressive. Plus if he doesn't care about switch he wouldn't need a ski like that. I also have 4FRNT Renegades, THOSE hold up much better when I am skiing aggressively, super fast, through crud and stuff, and the full reverse camber gives them some playfulness for slashing and whatever. They are more directional and 3's were no problem with them. Get them in a 196 (although they are 122 underfoot) and you will have something you will NEVER out-ski, something that will always support and keep up to you. Plus the wood top sheet is beautiful.
May 29 2012 2:45PM
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PappaG
Posts: 931 - Karma: 797
Out of all the skis listed, the 196 Bibby will be the most stable and suitable to your skiing needs. It is the ONLY ski in that bunch with a flat tail which gives you far more stability when maching down the slopes or wanting to land big cliffs. The flex is also the stiffest among all Moment skis, something to consider if you don't want the ski to bend like a noodle.
May 29 2012 2:47PM
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PappaG
Posts: 931 - Karma: 797
The 196 Bibby was also for sale this past weekend on Moment's website for $350. The deal might be done, but worth calling the shop at (775) 527-1595 to find out.
May 29 2012 2:48PM
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.cam.
Posts: 1852 - Karma: 48
Not on your list but look into the nnordica patron. Blister did a review on them
May 29 2012 3:10PM
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
Looking for pretty much the same ski and I'm 6ft4, 80kg. Bibby Pros would be perfect if I was smaller or they made it longer than 190. The 196 is more of a chargy ski. I've ordered 193 Atomic Automatics for next year, check those out.
May 29 2012 5:27PM
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Banane.
Posts: 3102 - Karma: 414
Matbe next year Automatic ?
May 29 2012 5:27PM
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TheSkiMonster
Posts: 155 - Karma: 327
Atomic Automatic. It's really sick!
May 29 2012 6:09PM
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str6t9
Posts: 305 - Karma: 61
I am also 6'3 200. I was in your exact position. I did go with the Moment Jaguar Sharks 192. A directional ski that both charges and floats well. Chech it out!
May 29 2012 8:14PM
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flatland
Posts: 726 - Karma: 77
Yup, I'm on 6'2 220lb on the 196. Ended up using it as my daily driver after I bought it as a pow only ski. It's that good.
May 29 2012 11:20PM
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IDMT_BC024
Posts: 224 - Karma: 129
I would cross the C&D's (too wide), akJJ's, and bentchetlers off your list. I would recommend checking out:
4frnt- Renegades and EHP's (I REALLY liked both but I prefer the EHP's- longer turn radius but still surprisingly fun in trees. I also like the EHP's tail better than the renegade's, they have less tail rocker and are more squared off and slightly pin tailed.)
Atomic- Atlas (kind of a meh ski IMO but it does charge) and the new automatic
Moment- bibby pros(One of my favorites, the most aggressive "twin" that I've ever skied, and spin pretty well) and maybe this year's bibby specials
K2- Obsethed (they have soft tails that kind of folds up on landings, but they're damp and do well in crud as long as the snow is light)
ON3P- Haven't skied but definitely check them out.
Nordica- Patrons or helldorados
Volkl- Katanas (I liked the katanas a lot, they felt a little like a quicker EHP) and shiros, but keep in mind that volkl's quality has been questionable for the last few years. They moved production back to Germany from China last year but I've had friends who have had a pair of this years katanas and this years shiros fall apart (volkl did replace both of their skis for free)
I wouldn't get the Opus's, bentchetler's or akJJ's for a charger, they all fall on the more playful side of powder skis.
And many more...
May 30 2012 1:27AM
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rozboon
Posts: 1642 - Karma: 868
+1 to this, they look to be the goods.
May 30 2012 2:02AM
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TijmenDal
Posts: 4849 - Karma: 1,295
Ok, thanks a lot for the many, many replies guys! This really helps!

Narrowing it down a little I've come to this:
- 191 ON3P BG's (possibly the tour version)
- 193 Automatic - totally forgot about this one. Definitely an option!
- 193 4FRNT EHP
- 196 4FRNT Renegade
- 196 Moment Bibby

Right now the Billy Goats really appeal to me, the only thing I'm not sure of is if they might be too small. Especially because it has some rocker in the tails as well. The Wrenegades seem better for my (spec wise). If anybody has some input on this, please, go ahead!
How much lighter is the Billy Goat 'tour' compared to the normal one? (191cm length of course)

The Automatics look really sick. Doesn't look like I could go wrong with those. Too bad it's a new model and I won't be able to buy a pair second hand.

The EHP sounds awesome. Read some reviews and it looks really good. I found a pair online second-hand for 170€.

The Renegade sounds a bit too beasty, not sure. The EHP I think is that little bit more versatility I'm looking for.

The Bibby Pro's in 196 look awesome, and you for sure can charge with it, but how does it do in tighter spaces? Is it good in trees? Any experience? The pintail worries me a little and I'm afraid it will be too agressive.


To be honest, I don't think I could go wrong with any of the ski's posted above. Price will be very important in the end because I'm broke all the time. Having skied on either ski for 2 days will probably be enough to love it to death.

A second thing to take into consideration is that I would like to turn it into a tour-setup. I'm in very good physical health so I don't care lugging 100 grams or so more around, but being able to tour well on it would be big pre.
May 30 2012 7:56AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,893
This is definitely a ski that should be part of your decision making process. PM me if you want any details about it.
May 30 2012 8:21AM
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Skiingsnow
Posts: 1567 - Karma: 797
Awesome ski, brought a pair in Feb, just before the March pow in whistler, incrediblly powerful ski, not for the faint hearted, you cant really cruise on them. They don't appear to have a speed limit, they will steamroll through fucking anything. I love mine.
May 30 2012 8:38AM
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TijmenDal
Posts: 4849 - Karma: 1,295
Good to hear. That's really reassuring. Really hope the guy who has/had them for sale still does. 170€ is a steal I think (even though it's the 09/10 model, but who cares; it's pretty much the same ski I think).
May 30 2012 10:17AM
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PappaG
Posts: 931 - Karma: 797
Here are some videos on the 186 Bibby Special (same as the 196; for reference, I'm 5'10", 180#):


Because of the amount of tip rocker, these are surprisingly quite nimble in tight spots. The pintail does lock you in a turn for sure, but I think any aggressive and larger sized skier should be able to release it when necessary.


Outside of this ski, I would look at the 191 Billy Goat and 196 Renegade (which is softer than the Bibby).
May 30 2012 11:00AM
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pghjibber
Posts: 1298 - Karma: 329
190cm Armada Norwalk
May 30 2012 11:32AM
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TijmenDal
Posts: 4849 - Karma: 1,295
Never heard of it. Also, sounds a bit short for me...
May 30 2012 12:38PM
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Nicko1981
Posts: 527 - Karma: 180
New ski for next year, Liberty Variant:



May 30 2012 12:56PM
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pghjibber
Posts: 1298 - Karma: 329
norwalk is 126-141-116(underfoot)-132 with a 21m turning radius and tip rocker only

essentially it's a fatter, more burly version of the TST
May 30 2012 1:12PM
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TijmenDal
Posts: 4849 - Karma: 1,295
I don't have 800$ to blow on ski's. I'm mainly looking at older models/second hand stuff. That's why the Automatic isn't really a viable option.

193 EHP's can be had for pretty cheap. Hopefully I can get a pair of those. Sounds really good. They guy I was planning on buying them from didn't have 'em anymore! *Sad smiley face*
May 30 2012 1:16PM
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flatland
Posts: 726 - Karma: 77
It's too bad you're in The Netherlands. I'm fairly sure Soul Ski and Bike in Banff, AB has some 193 EHP's left for around $500 CAD. I used to work there and they're all good guys. I'd be on those skis if I didn't find such a good deal on the rens.
May 30 2012 3:44PM
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TijmenDal
Posts: 4849 - Karma: 1,295
500$ is still a shit ton of money. I'm not really interested in buying new. I can buy new ones for 400€, but that's outta my budget. Looking more to spend aroun 250€, which should be no problem for second-hands. The idea of EHP's has really grown on me, but eventually I think it will come down to what I stumble upon for a good price.
May 30 2012 3:56PM
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TijmenDal
Posts: 4849 - Karma: 1,295
I got an offer from someone: 190 Salomon Czar + FFG 14 for 250€. Seems like a good deal to me, but I don't think this is really what I'm looking for. Anyone has experience with them?
I don't think it's very powder orientated, is it?
May 30 2012 6:10PM
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
Check out Hojis if you want to tour on them. They feel significantly lighter than the EHP and better in tight spaces. I thought they sucked on hardpack but in anything slightly soft or deep they were nice.

Automatics are still the best call, aside from touring.
May 30 2012 7:21PM
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TijmenDal
Posts: 4849 - Karma: 1,295
Yeah, and from a financial point of view, haha.

How did you like the Hoji's in the crud? They seem like a sick ski; the 195 really appeals to me.
May 30 2012 7:24PM
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H-Slice
Posts: 529 - Karma: 120
i honestly love my JJs, some people say they aren't great for charging but they seem to charge perfectly for me, also they are really easy to jump around in the trees if u need to and are all around a super playful ski
May 30 2012 9:08PM
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Dr.Gnar
Posts: 896 - Karma: 197
Haha for sure, the Rens are mine too outside of the park. My buddy has tuned skis for years and knows skis really well. He referred to my Opus' and said "you have to stop buying skis just because they look pretty. Try the Renegades. They're a big boy ski...a man ski." Boy was he ever right.
May 30 2012 9:08PM
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
I didn't really ski much crud in them, just a little bit when the spring snow was turning from refreeze. They handled it fine though. Stuff I've read says if you lean then over more aggressively on hardpack so that the full sidecut engages they do fine, so that might have been where I was going wrong. Blister has a good long review of them, check that out.
May 31 2012 7:48AM
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TijmenDal
Posts: 4849 - Karma: 1,295
I'm a big boy... I'd love to try the 196 Rens. Sucks they're so expensive and hard to get 2nd hand...
Jun 1 2012 5:08AM
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