Sir Francis Bacon or OPUS?

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Insane

Yeah the bacons are super versitile with a nice turning radius. The opus can still do it all but is much better suited in the pow. The opus has a wider, surfier turning radius on groomers. Not a bad thing, they just aren't as easy to throw around. Plus the bacons still rip pow better than most pow dedicated skis. I'd say go bacons. I always say that if you have to ask if the opus is right for an everyday ski for you than it probably isn't. A ski that wide as an everyday quiver of one is an acquired taste and not for everyone. If it was right for you, you would know it.

Jan 24 2012 11:21AM

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Sickboi

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Wannabe

Thanks for your answers, I ride a pair of Line Mastermind, so it would be like my second pair.

i'm looking to put masterminds only on park, as they are terrible holding wax :S

Jan 24 2012 12:41PM

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Casual.

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Insane

you can't go wrong with either ski. the opus' aren't really that much wider than the bacons and they both rip everything. there is a dude at my mountain that i see all the time who rips hardback on the opus, so i wouldn't worry that they are too wide for all mountain riding. and the bacons are plenty wide to float pow if you are comfortable in fresh snow. either is great

Jan 24 2012 1:11PM

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Sickboi

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Wannabe

where should i mount them? -2 from Midsole? -1? what do you think bout mounting some J Pros?

Jan 26 2012 7:59AM

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Insane

Not sure if your talking about the opus or the bacons but regardless, mount at midsole on both of those. On both skis there's more rise in the tips than tails so at midsole on the opus your at a -.5. On the bacons midsole is about -1 in relation to running surface. The opus feels like a dead center mount at midsole. The bacons feel damn close to center too even though midsole is -2.5 from dead center. I have heard that if you mount the bacons further forward than that you notice a big difference in turn initiation and turning radius. Normally I'd call horseypoop on that but it was relayed to me by people who would know. I can tell ya that I measured everything on both skis and if you don't take sidecut into account (which you should), anything over .5 on the opus or 1 on the bacon forward of midsole will basically ride like a forward of dead center mount. So unless you ride switch more than forward, I wouldn't mess with it. Hope that helps.

Jan 26 2012 9:25AM

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Bateman

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Crazy Fool

Ask TripleStrum

Jan 26 2012 9:33AM

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VD.

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No Life

The bacon is super versatile

Jan 26 2012 12:03PM

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AnthonyWalsh

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Insane

Anything good enough for Eric Pollard is good enough for me. Opus all the way

Jan 26 2012 12:12PM

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No Life

Mine are at true centre and I'd say they carve amazing. I haven't noticed any negative effects yet. I am used to centre mounting more or less anything but I skied some gates on them and they did not feel like 108mm rockered ski thats for sure. Obviously they aren't as good as a dedicated piste ski but they carve fine for almost everyones daily use.

Jan 26 2012 12:43PM

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Insane

No, the Opus has same rocker tip and tail, same length and rise. I just looked at mine to check. Best mount is midsole, it is where the core was designed to be thickest, and puts you just nicely back from true center of the camber, in the sweet spot of the sidecut. If you don't land/ride switch in pow whatsoever, there are smarter skis to get, or you're gonna feel squirrely on the near center mount and with wide tails.

Feb 4 2012 3:32AM

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iffe

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Insane

The Opus is amazing. I enjoy skiing groomers and park on mine.

Feb 4 2012 4:59AM

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DaysToCome

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Insane

I found the opus to be a great ski. I skied it on hardpack and groomers and though it was a little slow edge to edge it turned really easily and allowed you to make any kind of turn shape fast or slow. If you are looking for a fatter one ski quiver I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better option IMO.

Feb 4 2012 2:07PM

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Insane

Just stop dude. You gotta be trollin. Look at the specs homie. I know for an absolute 100% fact that the rise isn't symmetrical on either the bacons or the opus. Just stop dude. Don't throw out stuff you don't know what your talkin about.

Feb 4 2012 7:20PM

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Insane

FUCK YOU, the specs on the LINE website say it's the same. You're the dumbass. AND IT VISUALLY LOOKS THE FUCKING SAME. GTFO. I FUCKING OWN THE SKIS, I KNOW. http://assets.k2sports.com/lineskis.com/public/ftplineskis/2011/files/lineskis_ski-compare.pdf

Feb 5 2012 12:18AM

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Insane

And maybe, if you've got your head out of your ass yet, you'll see the tip and tail height are both 68mm, the mount is -2cm from true center, and as I stated before, TIP & TAIL 25mm x 15mm rocker, say sorry....

Feb 5 2012 12:25AM

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Insane

You do realize that with this statement you just proved yourself wrong and myself right don't you? I said nothing about rocker height. I said running surface. This is more rocker in the tip than the tail, hence a -2.5 mount on the bacons and a -2 mount on the opus is actually closer to a center feel. You lose thanks for playin though.

Feb 5 2012 12:33AM

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iffe

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Insane

Not taking sides here, but I snapped a photo of the rocker profile for anyone wondering.

Feb 5 2012 3:00AM

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No Life

Looks symmetrical to me but it is hard to judge.

It is symmetrical on my Bacons, I know this because I checked and got two other people to check before i centre mounted them. I will take a photo when I get back to switzerland.

Feb 5 2012 5:51AM

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Insane

I'll make it easy. Call line on Monday and ask them if the rocker is symmetrical. I already know the answer they're going to give you. There is slightly less running surface in the tip=more rocker. A true center mount on bacons is actually a very slightly forward mount.

Feb 5 2012 10:16AM

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Insane

No, and you have a second person that can clearly SEE the symmetry. Tell me, why the FUCK does the size chart on their WEBSITE say the rocker is the same?? Fuck man, I can see for myself anyways. Center mounting MOST pow skis does give you more running surface behind you than in front, of course that will happen if there's longer rocker up front.

Feb 5 2012 12:12PM

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NWPA

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Addict

why are you getting so heated over this? haha To OP i think the SFB is what you want. The Opus is really fun all over though, its not that wide under foot.

Feb 5 2012 2:40PM

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Line_Skis

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Insane

symmetrical early rise on the SFB & MPO tip and tail. thanks for looking!

Feb 5 2012 3:46PM

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No Life

Thanks for sorting that out (I pm'd them). I love my Bacons by the way, OP feel free to pm me any questions. I think i might move to opus's next year if my legs are feeling stronger though.

Feb 5 2012 4:44PM

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Insane

THANK YOU, YOU ARE SAVIOUR.

Feb 5 2012 5:15PM

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Insane

That's funny actually as I was told by line that neither has symmetrical rocker. Not doubting you guys are right. But I was straight up told by line employees differently. That's cool though. I'll give you guys that one. So then my next humble question would be, is the sidecut on the bacons also symmetrical? I was told it wasn't and mounted accordingly. I wanted to mount at center but was told not to. Line has some splainin to do. Maybe I can send mine back and get new ones based on the bunk info?

Feb 5 2012 6:39PM

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No Life

Honestly, I didn't ask line to call you out or whatever, I just was interested to find out if I'd measured it up wrong myself. You gave me solid advice differentiating the SFB/Opus and helped me make my decision between the two.
To answer your question, the contact points on mine are as far as i can tell, symmetrical. I.e the contact is the same distance from true centre tip and tail, but the sidecut centre (narrowest point) is clearly set back about 1.5-2.5cm.

Feb 5 2012 6:48PM

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Insane

Nah that's cool. I'm honestly curious now. I feel bad if I was puttin out bunk info based on what line directly told me. I know the sidecut on the opus isn't symmetrical. You can see that by eyeballing. I def measured the contact points compressing the camber on the opus and there's a difference in the rise on tip and tail. No doubt. I don't care what line says there's a 1.5 difference. When I get back from this ski trip I'm on and back to my engineering goodies I'm giving both skis legit measurement and will report back. Trust me. I'm well over my ego and if it measures the same by laser I'll tell ya and legit apologize. If it doesn't measure symmetrical though and is off by more than a cm....I'm done with line and buyin nothin but on3p from now on.

Feb 5 2012 7:18PM

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Posts: 1931 - Karma: -3

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Insane

Yeah now see this is really starting to bug me. Right now we are in some cabin in the mountains so my means are meager. That said I found a small tape in my trucks toolbox and after the game me and my bud decided to look at it again. If you compress the camber on the bacons, measure true center, then measure the contact points there is absolutely 1cm less in the tip than the tail. That's on TWO different pairs of bacons. On my opus it's a 1.5 difference. If those are both supposed to have symmetrical rocker, I think I have 3 pairs of skis in front of me here with legitimate warranty issues. Somethin ain't right with quality control in china I guess? When I get home I will put a lazer to it to confirm but WTF? And just to be clear, I'm talking running surface here. Not height..

Feb 5 2012 11:46PM

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Insane

Okay, we need to get something cleared up. Are we talking about sidecut or rocker? The widest points of the ski don't necessarily have to line up dead perfect with the contact points of the bases.

The sidecut is not symmetrical, I think that was established, but for those uninformed it's multi-radius, which they call "Fivecut", I imagine it could be called "progressive sidecut", as in it gets progressively tighter, but who cares.

Most importantly though, it's only +/-1.5cm discrepancy measured semi-accurately with a tape measure. Hopefully, the tip rocker will be longer. Besides, we all ride forwards far most often, and so most skis will naturally break in more up front, making early rise....earlier. If you're honestly worried about it, just relax. You're "done with Line only buying on3p now" comment reaks of troll, hell maybe not, but I could care less, because everyone who's been reading the thread at least learned some more about the skis. I'm glad I didn't turn out to be "embarrassing myself" all along.

Feb 6 2012 2:00AM

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Insane

We are talking about a few different things but most important is that in your comments you keep agreeing with me that there's less running surface tip to center than center to tail. That's the main point I had with you. Not trollin on line though. I've been with line since its inception. Will ski nothing else. But if some of them say one thing then another comes int

Feb 6 2012 9:27AM

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Insane

Sorry mobile. Anyway if some tell me one thing than another comes into this thread and says something contradicting, that's bad business and I'm dead serious when I say I'd be done. And yeah I'm aware it was eyeball and tape, hence why I will hit it with a lazer when I get home tomorrow.

Feb 6 2012 9:30AM

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No Life

It does seem worth taking in to account that
a) your opus at least, you've had since before they were released to the public. The rocker shape could have been moderately tweaked since then.
b) you've been riding them a while, nose butters or whatever could have given the ski an extra cm of tip rise no problem!

What i meant by the way was that on my bacons the contact points when on edge, seem to be symmetrical around true centre, even though the sidecut is not. This has been true of most line skis i've skied in the past so it wouldn't surprise me.

This all strikes me as slightly irrelevant since no matter the exact rocker length, contact points etc, you have been skiing both Bacons and Opus at whatever point you've had them mounted at, and loved both. That seems by far the most important

Feb 6 2012 11:02AM

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wrichmond

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Ridiculous

Go bacons. Stiffer flex would be better for all mountain use.

Feb 6 2012 12:36PM

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Insane

Twigski-(sorry on mobile and can't quote) your making very valid points and yes I do love both skis. Here is my gripe with this whole situation though. I was told in the early stages that the rocker would be symmetrical on both. Talkin like a year ago early stages. So I get my opus' after SIA last year and started measuring everything to establish a mount I would like.(I have never mounted at recommended on any line ski I've ever owned). So after alot of measurement, both compressed and uncompressed camber, I noticed that there was definitely less running surface from tip to true center than true center to tail. It was a difference of 1.5cm. That made sense to me that by factoring the sidecut with the difference in rocker was how they came up with -2 of true center for midsole. It would actually feel like a center mount. Didn't question it and in the first time in 10yrs I actually mounted a ski at the recommended line. Then I got the bacons. I measured those up as well because I mounted last years at true center and I wanted to see if center was optimal given the new sidecut and less dramatic rocker. I came up with a difference of 1 everytime. Even had a bud do it and got the same. So before I mounted those I talked to a guy at line. He said yeah there's a slight difference and all those guys are mounting at recommended. Fair enough so I did. So then peeps would ask for advice and I'd tell them what I measured and THOUGHT was confirmed(till this thread). So then someone officially from line comes in here and says no its symmetrical when it's not. TWO sets of bacons. One gotten early and one bought recently. Both have the same difference of 1. Now ya also gotta understand that I'm no spring chicken. I'm in my 30s and have looked at this stuff for a loooong time. So that's why I'm WTF. You can say tape measure this and eyeball that but wouldn't we see that same difference in the tails then? Maybe I'm talking about one thing and everyone else is talking about something else so I'll be clear. I mean the running surface from tip to true center and true center to tail. Measured off the contact points. Not height of rocker or angle. I'm talking base to snow contact on a flat surface. With what I'm measuring the midsole line makes alot of sense. I dunno. I'm gonna stop giving advice. Your told one thing and confirm by tape, then your told something different. That's obnoxious. I sincerely apologize to anyone I may have misinformed and for giving dr gnar crap too. All that said though, if there's that big a difference these days in spec to retail then I'm seriously going to contemplate a new ski company.

Feb 6 2012 3:32PM

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No Life

Legit reply, totally understand where you're coming from. I will check mine when i get back to switzerland for some further information. That said, I love the skis regardless of what the answer turns out to be. I don't think you should entirely stop giving advice because the advice you gave me was sound.

I'm also considering ON3P next season, especially if they do a 171 (ideally) Jeffery. I might go JMO too but I'd prefer the fatter ski.

Feb 6 2012 4:07PM

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Minifreeskier

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Newb

ive been in aspen riding bacons and they are heaven they float amaxingly fun to do some grabs with

Feb 6 2012 4:18PM

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Insane

Yeah I'm not saying I'll stop giving advice as a threat or due to being a poor sport. I don't wanna give people the wrong advice ya know? Honestly if my measurements are correct, and someone mounts at true center like you did, that would actually be a +1 from center mount. To your average joe that's not a huge deal but to someone competing that could be the difference between first and last ya know? Also, I know I sound especially harsh toward dr gnar but in all fairness he attacked me in another thread as well and I kinda took it out on this one. So sorry to the OP. Anyway I'm nearly home and gotta clean and repack to head back out west but before I leave I'm measuring both of these skis. Actually two sets of bacons and a set of the opus'. My buds all intrigued now too. Haha.

Feb 6 2012 4:22PM

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Insane

Ok. Last post. So sorry for clogging this thread but this is important for mounting info on these skis. So by laser, there is a difference of 1.5 on the opus and 1 on the bacons. So I went to lines site. Early rise for the opus is 25cm x 15mm. Hmmm. 15mm=1.5cm. Interesting. Early rise for the bacons is stated as 20cm x 10mm. Well look at that. 10mm=1cm. Coincidence? I think not folks.

Feb 6 2012 5:11PM

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Insane

This has really got us scratching our heads now cause the heights of the rise match perfect to said specs by laser. 15mm and 10mm respectively. I don't get it. Haha. Oh well. Thought perhaps I found a transposed spec number but no.

Feb 6 2012 5:33PM

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Insane

"Big difference?" I think you stop worrying about it because it's certainly not much of a difference at all. So long as each ski is identical to the other, 1.5cm extra tip rocker in general is not significant. The recommended mount is calibrated for the sidecut specifically, for the intended arc, remember the sidecut is not symmetrical so it's it's really the sweet spot geometrically speaking, or maybe Eric Pollard speaking. I'd bet my money that not all companies are exact or honest in stating the specs of their skis, but it's all just so negligible!

Feb 6 2012 6:55PM

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Insane

Like I said before, if you center mount a ski that has 1cm less running surface in the tip, your actually riding a +1 of center from a running surface perspective. That's a big deal for forward float. So yeah it really can be a big difference. I'm much less pissy toward line at the moment because I'm packin for another ski trip,(SCORE!), but that's not right man. For most a ski is a big investment and the proper mount can make or break a ski.

Feb 6 2012 7:15PM

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freedom-skier

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Pro

sir francis bacons for sure

Feb 6 2012 7:57PM

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Insane

You know there's millions of symmetrical (so center mounted) rockered park skis that have longer rocker up front, so the running surface mount is technically way forward. Besides if rec. mount is -2 of true center, and the flex is symmetrical, the back contact point gets that little bit more stress all the time, and that probably has to be taken into account. Personally, I feel the design and mount is to be trusted, they've been doing it a long time. I mean if it was different rocker, maybe 5cm difference or even more, and someone stated it as symmetrical rocker, THEN I would be skeptical and mad.

Feb 6 2012 7:57PM

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Insane

Right. But you jumped in on me for stating all of this. I said recommended was the sweet spot. So what exactly was your original point then? It's whatever now. Lesson learned for me. You can't trust specs or even representatives of a company as they clearly contradicted each other. I'm done though. My point was proven and I learned a bit about how one of the companies I trusted operates. Feel free to continue but I will not. I will also not step on your toes of you want to be NS' resident big shot on line skis with all 27 of your posts ok sport?

Feb 6 2012 8:23PM

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