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Downrate and GTFO.

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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22708 - Karma: 76,633
Well, so as it looks, there are a few people out there really ruining the party for everyone.

I am making the official announcement that we are coming up with a new ratings system based on simple up/down voting, and we are going to scrap the entire historical system in favour of the new one.

However - this is going to take us probably a month or so to get done. Its no tiny task to completely re-think the way that the site calculates ratings, and change up all the systems which look for top rated media. It is going to be worth it.

In the meantime though, downrating will NOT BE TOLERATED. I had Paul build myself and the admins a tool which allows us to quickly check the ratings of individual media items and users. We are able to in a few seconds call up every rating that you have ever done on the site. Sure you think that you can get away with saying 'well I thought that photo sucked' but we can INSTANTLY tell when you're lying. The reason is that we have ratings habits of all times of you, and can look at the patterns.

Take for example, user tpills.

His friend uploaded this photo:

Which is decent, and people liked it. I liked it. I rated it well, as I thought it was a worthy candidate.

However, that day there were other really worthy candidates currently listed in 'top rated of the day'

In order to make his photo advance better, user tpills went through the top rated and did this:


I understand why. Hell one of my own photos was a candidate that day, and I was really hoping to see it advance. I couldn't believe the stab in the heart I felt when I realized that I was doing well, but someone went through and gave me a 1 which dropped my rating. I can imagine how horrible it feels for all of you when this happens, seeing your photo or video doing well and then all of a sudden struck down.

Upon confronting user tpills, he stated that his simply rates stuff a 1 that he doesn't like. What is interesting is that is true of most of you on here... you rate stuff either a 10 or a 1. An immense proportion of the votes on the site are either 10 or 1, with very little in between... though a smattering of votes between 7 and 10.

So you're all begging for an up/down system and we'll give it. But we need to do it right.

What I am offended to see is the fact that when people put their own photo in our system, they all of a sudden try to cheat.

We here at newschoolers try to give exposure to the unknown riders with potential. We try to build something that is representative of what the people want, and it gets pissed all over it not by only trying to game the system but by then pretending like its 'just your opinion'.

Frankly this is the reason that traditional media usually doesn't listen to the masses. Jerks come in and game it for their own reasons.

Noting all of that, we will build something that is impossible to game. We'll use the mechanics that Reddit uses, and get something in place that is really fancy and will make this a thing of the past.

I hate that it has to come to this, but I guess it is what it is.

Until then - DO NOT DOWNRATE. I will find you, I will hunt you down, I will ban you and I will publicly embarass you.

Vote stuff what it deserves. Its not hard.

Sorry for filpping out, but this shit is ruining what we're trying to do here, which is give exposure to the up-and-coming athletes, photographers and videographers.


Jan 4 2012 12:12PM
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SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,124
and why is it again that you insecure kids need to rate things?
People who need to count days skiing fish caught, $$$, friends ecookies or whatever are sad
go live your lives in the pursuit of things that make you smile and if that's views or needing to berate other videos or pics to get your shit more e cookies your priorities are whack
Jan 7 2012 8:47AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
There's always the possibility of, you know, living our lives and talking about how them e-cookies should crumble.
Jan 7 2012 11:25AM
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QuazBotch
Posts: 3909 - Karma: 223
some people really like statistics
Jan 7 2012 3:04PM
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broto
Posts: 9039 - Karma: 25,664
i think with an up/down rating system, the rating should be upvotes minus downvotes, which is what reddit does. then, if ten people upvote something and one person downvotes it out of jealousy or selfishness or whatever, it won't affect the rating too much. the next person who comes along and upvotes it will put it back into it's place, where it's supposed to be. the old system didn't allow for that. two 1 ratings, and the media is out of the count basically.

then, until the media makes photo/video of the day or something, don't give it any more coverage than the rest: allow for fair game on votes. since this allows for the numbers of people who upvoted it to sway the rating more than the quality of the votes, it is essential that the same amount of people view each photo or nearly the same.

also, make an easy up/down voting system right on the thumbnails possibly? sometimes i feel people see a sick photo but don't want to take the time to load the new page, vote, then click back to where they were.


just food for thought, my 2 cents.
Jan 7 2012 10:44PM
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ericman
Posts: 405 - Karma: 155
DOnt fuck with the SC man theylll get ya on the ratings no matter the system
Jan 8 2012 1:16AM
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84891jnf92048
Posts: 11552 - Karma: 2,550
I'm going to downrate your life.
Jan 8 2012 10:30PM
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Downtofilm
Posts: 6896 - Karma: 20,395
go away.
Jan 9 2012 12:04AM
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joris.blanc
Posts: 914 - Karma: 6,584
Basically this wouldn't work, imagine if someone has a lot friends that have a NS account, they could easily make the down ratings insignificant compared to the up ratings, therefor getting POD even thought it may have not deserved it.

There should be a system that the number of votes has an influence on how a pic is chosen for POD.
I sometime see pics with 40 views and 20 ratings, usually my pics have 1 rating every 10 views, it is probable that the 20 ratings are mostly really good vote because they are mostly friends voting.
There should be in the algorithm that takes into account the numbers of registered users that view the pic and the numbers of votes so that EVERY media has the same chance.

An other thing that I was thinking about is that no matter what time you upload your media it should have the same chances. There should be a waiting time of at least 24h before a pic could be POD so NS users have time to rate it what it deserves. I don't know how the current system works but I could imagine someone uploading a pic an hour before the POD is chosen and get friends to rate it a 10.

Jan 10 2012 2:31AM
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SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,124
Glad to see someone else sees through the bullshit
Now go away so these kids can get their e cookies from the rest of their clueless e-need my karma and pod to fulfill our destiny waste time rating shit
your costin bishop $$$$
and they luvs to count the monies
Jan 10 2012 9:46AM
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ZinoboGrub2.0
Posts: 22 - Karma: 11
Dude, shut the fuck up. You're the one typing like a fucking moron over the internet trying to look cool not giving a fuck about "e-cookies"... If you don't like it- leave. Mr. Bishop is doing such a good job.
Jan 10 2012 10:45AM
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ZinoboGrub2.0
Posts: 22 - Karma: 11
Oh and check out the 860media Ep. 1 "Drought" edit... I'm almost positive people are downrating it since it was 9.96/51 now like 9.58... And i rated a 1 on accident could you take that away or no?
Jan 10 2012 10:48AM
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ZinoboGrub2.0
Posts: 22 - Karma: 11
Nvm it's not a 1 :)
Jan 10 2012 10:56AM
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Tent
Posts: 1082 - Karma: 682
Good one tpills
Jan 10 2012 12:58PM
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AHSkier
Posts: 563 - Karma: 42
And people please stop rating pink name users' photos 10 just because they are girls. Sure if it deserves a ten and it happens to be a pinkname no problem but it's pathetic if you think it deserves a six and you give it a ten because they are chicks.
Jan 17 2012 4:07PM
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tBatt
Posts: 9632 - Karma: 580
While we're at it, how about a subscribe button instead of 3/4 of a thread's post being "threads"

eh?
Jan 17 2012 5:37PM
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rorywalsh
Posts: 365 - Karma: 2,290
lol i serious don't believe this shit. I know tphills personally and I was stoked for him when I logged on one day and say that pic of him  it deserved cover shot for sheezy but after he pulled that downrate  bullshit thats just embarrising. enjoy your minute of fame and let someone else have it. you don't cheat your way to the top. dont work like dat.
Jan 18 2012 12:56PM
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Wesley.P
Posts: 1376 - Karma: 89
How is the cover page determined? Is it the top rated photo of that day? week? month? Or do the Admins choose it?
Jan 18 2012 5:37PM
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Asterisk
Posts: 954 - Karma: 199
photo of the day
Jan 18 2012 5:38PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
not much i want to add here, just want to say i definitely back the reddit esque system (as i said in another thread), but more importantly

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK mr bishop. you really work hard to improve this site and it's beautiful. just wanted to say a lot of people really appreciate it
Jan 18 2012 6:20PM
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Wesley.P
Posts: 1376 - Karma: 89
Sorry for the questions but how is photo of the day determined? i cant find it anywhere
Jan 18 2012 8:33PM
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Asterisk
Posts: 954 - Karma: 199
pretty sure it's some complicated algorithm. Not quite sure though
Jan 18 2012 8:43PM
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broto
Posts: 9039 - Karma: 25,664
nope, lol red name said somewhere it is the highest rated photo that hasn't been POD in the past year.
Jan 18 2012 9:19PM
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Asterisk
Posts: 954 - Karma: 199
Really? Then what was it that used an algorithm? Or were they just trying to fool us
Jan 18 2012 9:32PM
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broto
Posts: 9039 - Karma: 25,664
......


i think the crazy formula was a joke and it was quoted from somewhere else.
Jan 18 2012 9:36PM
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Asterisk
Posts: 954 - Karma: 199
Click for larger image
Jan 18 2012 9:44PM
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J.M
Posts: 2854 - Karma: 254

.

Jan 19 2012 12:09AM
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squibble
Posts: 4569 - Karma: 104
Unfortunately this is the state of mind of the site. You should be mad at the psychology behind group dynamics, if you were one of the "regular" ns users you would do the same thing, maybe not so much if you posted your own media. Maybe by going on a "site awareness spree" about this. Even the threat of being banned is decently preventative, you don't actually have to enfore it, maybe for a couple veteran users, that would bring the message across. You may as well at least try, it will be a lot easier than completely remaking the code, especially when you could be remaking the thing up there^
Jan 19 2012 1:30AM
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selkirks
Posts: 1978 - Karma: 59
Should extend a rating system based on simple + or - votes in the forums at the same time.
Jan 19 2012 3:05AM
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TWoods
Posts: 10014 - Karma: 8,386
I rate all your shit 1s.
Jan 19 2012 5:47PM
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-Dan
Posts: 7131 - Karma: 51,770
NS RATING SYSTEM

Solid Seven, 0, dank

dunno what else you'd need
Jan 23 2012 1:40PM
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bakedpow
Posts: 8770 - Karma: 10,467
Boom! The truth comes out.
Jan 23 2012 9:35PM
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squibble
Posts: 4569 - Karma: 104
my last idea i was baked so hopefully this is better

the biggest problem with the 10 scale is i dont have a reference for an 8 or 5 so if i really like it, like jizz worthy, it will be a 10, everything below that im just kind of guessing. so how about when you hover over a star rating a little box pops up describing what a 7 video should be. eg a 4 could result from shitty music, shaky camera, bad skiing and a 7 could result from a good edit, bad music Or bad skiing but not both,
Jan 26 2012 8:28PM
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squibble
Posts: 4569 - Karma: 104
that too. but up down just seems too simple. the best videos would be the ones that have been around the longest, new ones could take a while to pop up to the top. Its nice to be able to search for 8s and up, i dont know how you could do that with +/-
Jan 26 2012 8:50PM
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RyCo19
Posts: 365 - Karma: 503
You're neglecting to consider the metrics of the whole population (primarily mean and/or mode, where the "population" is the net aggregate of all pictures hosted on NS). After taking that into consideration, your claim that uprating has the same potential skewing effect as downrating is shown to be false.

The simple explanation comes from basic stat theory, which can be applied to show that if and only if the population mean of all picture scores on NS was a perfect 5/10 -- which I sincerely doubt, but I have no access to Bishop's data -- then uprating could be as potentially harmful as downrating to a picture's overall rating. However, given Mr. Bishop's comments saying that most of the ratings are between a 7-10, then it leads me to conclude that the population mean of picture ratings is probably much higher, maybe somewhere around a 7. Given that, your maximum potential to change a picture rating by "uprating" it as a 10/10 is considerably less than your potential to damage the picture's rating by rating it a 1/10. Does that make sense?

Not trying to lecture at all and I mean no disrespect in the lease (I appreciate how you've approached it since my brain runs on numbers), but since it's been brought up I figured I would throw my thoughts out there.

TL;DR: this whole explanation is off the point and I'm pumped to see an upvote/downvote system for NS media. Definitely a step in the right direction! Good choice, Admin team.
Jan 27 2012 8:02PM
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t_rob
Posts: 6433 - Karma: 11,459
At no point did I mean to dispute any of that. I think I talked about mean deviation and why 1s have more effect than 10s not that I'm going to go back to page 1 and check. By downrating being the same as uprating, I meant that the psychological reasoning for it is the same even though, duh, a 1 vs. a 10 has a different effect on the mean.

And to be a dick, the "perfect score" that you're trying to say would be a 5.5
Jan 28 2012 5:49PM
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skithesprings
Posts: 9086 - Karma: 1,349
I stand by my vote to make the system so you have to comment to rate and your rating is shown with your comment. Its so frustrating when a video of mine is 10 of 19 then it drops to 9.5 of 20 because someone dropped a 1
Jan 30 2012 11:35AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
I think that would skew the scale too much upwards. Kids would be afraid to rate it low with a a bad comment because of karma rape, leading to missed ratings, bandwagoning and a lot of "Why the hell did you rate this under 10?!?!?" arguments.
Jan 30 2012 11:41AM
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thankagaper
Posts: 911 - Karma: -1,548
so it would be ok for people to ruin a videos score but not someones karma for committing the hanus sabotage. youre an idiot
Jan 30 2012 1:18PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Ha, fuck you. Can you even read, or spell, as it's spelled "heinous".

A 6 or 7 out of 10, for example, would not be sabotage, but would already lower an all tens score considerably, leading to people calling out someone "Why did you rate blaa blaah?!", which in fact would lead to more people who care about their "rep" or karma or whatever here to either

a) not rate at all

b) rate upwards along with the stream


hence skewing the system upwards unintentionally. Is it really, even now, wrong to give someone a 1? Then why is it on there? Why even have a low number scale if people shouldn't be able to use it?

It's different if people like tpills rate pretty much every single latest/top rated picture a 1 to ensure that their pic or vid goes and stays on the top. What if you have nothing at all invested in the process, and just wanna give somebody a 1, feeling like "Hey, this deserves a zero, but 1 it shall be".

Jan 30 2012 1:41PM
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skithesprings
Posts: 9086 - Karma: 1,349
I think for what i suggested to work, you would have to accept a more realistic score on your media. the difference between really good edits and really bad edits on NS is the difference between an average of 8 and an average of 9.5. with a system where you are held accountable you would be just as ridiculous to rate a bad edit 10 as you would be to rate a good edit a 1. It would force people to rate honestly. 
Jan 30 2012 1:58PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
It wasn't a bad suggestion, just thinking what could cause it to not force people to rate honestly and instead not rate at all or leave a higher score than they'd want.

I still think it would be great to go with a Up/Down system.
Jan 30 2012 2:07PM
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skithesprings
Posts: 9086 - Karma: 1,349
I'm ok with up down as long as the mods continue to hunt down habitual downvoters.

Could we at least make it so you have to watch the edit to rate it? I feel like that would get rid of the downranking before the northface ad is over. ya dig?
Jan 30 2012 2:17PM
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84891jnf92048
Posts: 11552 - Karma: 2,550
No, because if you are watching a terrible video you don't want to watch the rest of, but you know is worth only a 3 at best, you should be able to rate it then.
Jan 30 2012 4:28PM
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Greenfield*
Posts: 467 - Karma: 31
if its bad i don't rate. if its good i rate 10.
Jan 31 2012 9:53AM
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WillStart
Posts: 3955 - Karma: 3,192
holy shit the downrating is getting out of hand. my reel's hardly been up long at all and it's already gotten a 1, bringing it down to a 7.00. i realize maybe not everybody likes me and my reel might not do it for everybody, but i know for a fact that it's not bad enough for any rating lower than a 5.
Feb 9 2012 10:01PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
The new Nipwitz video, sitting at this moment at 5.50 out of 78 ratings.

I mean what the fuck, some of the best production and originality in the business, there's just no fucking way that this is a straight case.

https://www.newschoolers.com/watch/422896.0/Nipwitz---Polar-Night?c=11&o=9&t=2
Feb 13 2012 10:16AM
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joris.blanc
Posts: 914 - Karma: 6,584
This is just sad, it is probably one of the most professional webisode I have seen.
This is just plain hate.
Feb 13 2012 12:19PM
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N.L.
Posts: 2420 - Karma: 2,744
someone is ruining media on the whole site, maybe its ESPN....
my last pic was 10 of 10last night and then 7.77 this morning,
downrating is barely a problem, considering members are willing to login three aliases to ruin a pic.
if mods can really check whos downrating, look at my latest pic before i delete and repost
Feb 13 2012 12:50PM
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