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"The Academy Question"

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jksl
Posts: 12727 - Karma: 854
alright, i just got my new freeze and damn was i stoked. now, i flipped through it first to see pictures and to see what kinda stuff was in it. now i was even more stoked when i saw all the kids i know in this article, but i just flipped through it. then i took the time to read it, and it just pissed me off, quite a bit.
when i say this, it's mostly about Mike Gutt's comment on the academies after seeing Matt Phillipi's run and then Silas Miller's run(funny, cause i was told he didn't even attend WSI...)
anyways...the remark that pissed me off was:
'Back at Blackcomb, Gutt shakes his head as Silas Miller follows Matt Phillipi's run with one that is nearly identical. 'this is my point about the academies' he explains. 'These boys have a huge bag of tricks and are super-talented, but it seems like they learn a stunt, check it off their list, and move on wihtout taking the time to refine it or inspire a variation that makes it entirely their own.........'
there's some more after that, but it's pointless basically
now, i ski with these kids quite often, and i have attended a ski academy, and basically everything Gutt says is rediculous. First off, i know for a fact that all these kids have their own unique pipe runs, ESPECIALLY Phillipi. And about the check it off their list statement, that is the most rediculous part, i know that when i learn a trick i try many different things, and i'm only like 1/3 of the skier these kids are, so they work hard and they definately make their tricks unique and have their own steeze to them.

This may be irrelevant to all/most of you, but this articale did nothing but make me angry really. The only people who knew what they were talking about were the people that attend the schools/the coaches.
Also, i am not attacking Mike Gutt either, i'm sure he's a nice guy and everything, but his statement was just totally off, and i know the kids i ski with agree with me.

Jeff
Poniverus
Aug 26 2004 6:52PM
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NWBakerBoy
Posts: 681 - Karma: 13
ITS NOT ABOUT STYLE!!!!
THE POINT OF FREESKIING IS YOU SHOULDN'T NEED ACADEMIES!!!!
THEY DONT WANT IT TO GET TO A POINT WHERE YOU NEED TO ATTEND AN ACADEMY TO BE GOOD!!!
CHILL OUT!!!
--------------------

how do you like your blueeyed boy
Mister Death
Aug 28 2004 1:30PM
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mckeeman
Posts: 2674 - Karma: 122
remind me to neck punch all of you private school fags.


When in doubt...FSI


...fuckin send it


work to live...not live to work.
work to ski...but only if you ski to work. The simple equation to skibumming 101
Aug 28 2004 3:12PM
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M+M
Posts: 7935 - Karma: 25
are you guys complaining that academys are ruining the sport because skiing is all about fun or something and you think people go to the academys to just get good? you go to them so you can do the sport you love every day and to also get better but not just to get better

*NORTHEAST CULT*

^ITS ALIVE AGAIN!!!

quagmire:'We got to do something.'
peter:'Dont worry i got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if i even began to know what I am talking about.

dude i talked to them about it and they said 'our budget doesnt alow it' fuck that.....they just think im ugly-bristolrider
Aug 28 2004 3:13PM
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friedcheese
Posts: 1245 - Karma: 23
the part i dont like about ski academy's is that after a while only the kids going to to them will be good enough to be pro or whatever and hardly anyone else will have a chance. Skiing will be like gymnastics
Aug 28 2004 3:35PM
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1080bio
Posts: 2042 - Karma: 5
say that did happen the kids who dont have the money with natraul tlaent would still be goin to accadamies through scolarships



what happined to drugs, sex, & rock and roll...now adays we have aids crack and techno.......
Guns N' Roses
Aug 28 2004 4:31PM
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M+M
Posts: 7935 - Karma: 25
exelent point^ if you are good enough to make it and your whining that you cant get the money to an academy then get a scholership

*NORTHEAST CULT*

^ITS ALIVE AGAIN!!!

quagmire:'We got to do something.'
peter:'Dont worry i got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if i even began to know what I am talking about.

dude i talked to them about it and they said 'our budget doesnt alow it' fuck that.....they just think im ugly-bristolrider
Aug 28 2004 4:35PM
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greatdane
Posts: 43 - Karma: 10
The thing I don't like about the academy kids competing in freeskiing events is that they show up with coaches! At the US Open, one of the CVA coaches was in the athlete tent petitioning the judges on behalf of his kids trying to get them into the nighttime big air. Yeah, its great to learn the tricks through an oraganized club or school, but then each competitor should be on his own at competitions, not show up with a coach like a FIS or USSA event.
Aug 30 2004 8:20PM
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M+M
Posts: 7935 - Karma: 25
dude a coach will come if your on a freeride team or in an academy it doesnt matter^

*NORTHEAST CULT*

^ITS ALIVE AGAIN!!!

quagmire:'We got to do something.'
peter:'Dont worry i got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if i even began to know what I am talking about.

dude i talked to them about it and they said 'our budget doesnt alow it' fuck that.....they just think im ugly-bristolrider
Aug 30 2004 8:23PM
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Ahmets_Brother
Posts: 20283 - Karma: 5,931
your so right jeff...the only reason they say this is because there are sooo many dope eastcoasters comeing out right now


dont go to new york. all it has to offer is i love ny stickers
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newbies are our future unless if we stop them now!
'dont fuck with me cause the last person that fucked with me....well they lived a pretty normal life'- misty7
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Aug 30 2004 8:28PM
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acc
Posts: 4122 - Karma: 222
those boys were on fire last season...i can't wait to see what they do this season

h3o films
Aug 30 2004 8:35PM
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simmers
Posts: 1004 - Karma: 397
i thought that most of the shots in the academy article were not very cool.
Aug 30 2004 9:10PM
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linemaverick540
Posts: 4017 - Karma: 8
i agree up to the point where he says they dont refine the trick. i agree that they all tend to throw the same stuff, however it all looks sick



Logic Headware....temporary site is up, its about to blow up. where will you be?

Logic Headware

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Aug 31 2004 4:15PM
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DynastarriderGP
Posts: 8258 - Karma: 214
That article was blah.



Check out the trailer to Minor Threat. It features the best skiers from all over New York State (It's under the edits/shorts section or in Huckfest900's profile)



Peter: When you go on a cruise you need to build up a base tan.
Chris: But I heard that in tanning booths you can get something called Melenoma
Peter: Don't worry son that's just fancy talk for sexified.



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Aug 31 2004 4:35PM
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beau
Posts: 359 - Karma: 10
fuck your couch nigga fuck your couch!
Aug 31 2004 5:06PM
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h3ofilms
Posts: 4214 - Karma: 12
the article is GOOD in the way that it is one of the few instances where freeze has really written something of that nature...i mean its definately an 'opinion piece' and it does get u thinking...i just completely disagree with the opinion Freeze or the writer has on the academy kids...having seen them all ski a shitload, their all sick skiers and DO have style

how can this kill freeskiing? c'mon think about it...we have 5 big film companies (msp/tgr/level1/plehouse/pbp) and like 5 independent ski companies (line/4frnt/liberty/faction/bad memory)

snowboarding has like 15 movies per year, a shitload of companies, and just a general broader range then skiing...now i dont want to generally see freeskiing turn into a SNOWBOARD type industry...but whats another dozen or so kids that are sick from academies gonna do to KILL FREESKIING? absolutely nothing

just my thoughts, haha
Hibachi King Drops 8/31/04
Aug 31 2004 5:21PM
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FREEZEed
Posts: 15 - Karma: 10
Just like to point out that, at no point in the article, does the writer (me) diss the skiers or their style. In fact, FREEZE will run an assload of shots this year of all the kids mentioned in the article because they're great skiers and we have tons of great shots of them skiing--both in competitions and out of them.

i'm stoked that the article sparked this much debate, but it's important to understand the difference between a reported opinion (like Gutt's) and the article itself, which was essentially objective. The only 'opinion' in the writing itself is really a question: Will the academies take freeskiing down the same road as moguls, or is freeskiing too diverse for that to happen?

If any of the skiers in that article feel they were dissed by FREEZE, then they have my apologies, because that wasn't the intent and it's certainly not the case. Hopefully, after the Parkasaurus feature, you'll be as stoked on the mag as we are on your skiing.

-Micah Abrams
Editor
FREEZE Magazine
Aug 31 2004 6:25PM
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jksl
Posts: 12727 - Karma: 854
yea, i wasn't really talking about the article as a whole, it's mostly Gutt's comment that sparked me...there just needed to be more interviews with the kids that go there like Vanular and Phillipi, Solberg, all them people, cause they know first hand, and Marion's quotes didn;t seem to explain much, but i was glad to see that academies get this much attention know and i was stoked to see all my friends in the mag, cause they've been killlin it for so long

Jeff
Poniverus
Aug 31 2004 6:33PM
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h3ofilms
Posts: 4214 - Karma: 12
^^ yeah pretty much what i mean...it was a great opinion piece, i mean look how much back and forth on here alone its sparked

i was amazed to see such a large spread for those kids..impressive
Hibachi King Drops 8/31/04
Aug 31 2004 6:41PM
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monkeysteez
Posts: 2655 - Karma: 99
u might be right, academies r not hurting the sport, but freeskiing might actually be dead in a few more years. kids dont just 'freeski' nemore. they are all part of structured teams with practice and what not. well at least most of the really good ones r. so i guess thats not terrible, i am on a team but thats cuz its one of the only ways to get really good these days
Aug 31 2004 7:41PM
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VANULAR
Posts: 1930 - Karma: 5,131
Academies are sorta lame because you have to pay money to go to them, there all in the usa which is bad for me because, I pay with canadian dollar. If i didn't go to cva in maine then i wouldn't be anywhere in skiing. Going to an academy gives me oppurtunity, that i would not ever get until i was out of highschool on my own.I basically had three choices, go to a ski academy, get homeschooled or go to my public school in ontario where the skiing is poor. I dont think that academies are hurting the sport, there just progressing it.is it progressing the sport in a bad way, i can not tell, but i do agree that the coaches, world cups, olympics, training.this kind of thing doesn't really add up to the deffinition 'freeskiing' because of the rules that may come along with academies. But for kids like me and many others, it's the way we are able to do what we love to do. But i deffinetly disagree with what was said by the k2 rep on how i and all the kids i ski with dont refine are tricks. I know first hand that all we do is think about refining are tricks. dan, phillipi, chas,jp,me and everyone else who went to a ski academy can agree, that all we do, when were sleeping, eating, sitting, chillin, partyin, and even first thing in the morning we are all thinking about how we could put different aspects into our skiing. we dont just learn a trick and check it off our list and just do safety grabs with them. We do them all day with different grabs, shiffties the whole shaaa bang. In comps our runs look similar because we all ski together and push eachother. If someone learns a 9 in the pipe, eventually by the 2nd week, everyone and there mom can do it, because were skiing with kids that are at the same level or better at one thing or another. IT's not the academies that make you better necessarily, it's who you ski with.



skiing is so hot right now!!!
Aug 31 2004 8:16PM
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uuhno
Posts: 410 - Karma: 10
seeing that article was cool because i ski at waterville a lot




FRZGene - Wow you are the man. And by 'the man', I mean 'not the man'.
Aug 31 2004 8:33PM
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uuhno
Posts: 410 - Karma: 10
actually thats the only place i ski




FRZGene - Wow you are the man. And by 'the man', I mean 'not the man'.
Aug 31 2004 8:34PM
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Girays_Brother
Posts: 13973 - Karma: 1,635
EXACTLY what COR said.. exactly.. i do think that we should not have our sport in the olympics tho.. it kinda mad eme mad when i saw what that guy said about the kids learning a trick and checking it off their list too, and they have no difference in style.. ive seen these kids ski and they have the most unique style everyone of them ski diffferently and has a very sick style
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Aug 31 2004 9:57PM
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Gutt
Posts: 33 - Karma: 10
I just caught wind of this whole thread yesterday and it took me some time to read through it this morning before responding. I have got to say it is pretty humorous to read through this thread and see how a few quotes get people this rialed up.

I back every qoute stated in this academy article but many of you are reading way too deep into this one particular quote. I am not against acedemies and actually sponsor Alex Balsen and would be lying if I said I did not approach Corey Vanular about a sponosrship last year.

Above everything else the word 'style' seems to be creating the most controversy here. Everbody has their own interpretation of style and what looks good to them. For me, each skier has a style but not everybody has their own unique style. Now before you get all fired up again, this is my opinion.

I personally prefer riders who have a distinct individual approach to the sport and that is one of the most important characteristics I look for in every potential K2 athletes. I prefer creative skiers who are 'outside the box' thinkers on their skis. Look at our top 5 guys and it would be hard to confuse any one of them on the hill or the approach they take to riding.

I am not making a blanket statement about all acedemies or academy kids, but to me there are certain skiers with similar and predictable runs who come from the same academy. This formula is obviously working because these kids are standing on the poduim at many of these comps.

I am stoked Corey posted a response to this topic from an insider's perspective.
Sep 1 2004 1:09PM
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Ahmets_Brother
Posts: 20283 - Karma: 5,931
the only reason why you cant tell the diff is because YOU DONT KNOW THEM....if you saw thim more youd be able to say 'oh thats vanular'...i know i can tell the defference and i dont even know them...and if you ever pay attention youd notice that most peoples runs are similar. even tanner hall YES TANNER HALL. almaost everypipe run i see consists of a cork 5 first hit alley oop or flat or flair second, CORK 9 3rd, then it changes a bit...but most people runs are similar you just dont notice it. so its not like academy kids copy eachother. its just that its a dope rtun and they feel that if they do this then itll be a good score cause those are the dopest tricks


dont go to new york. all it has to offer is i love ny stickers
member 9020
newbies are our future unless if we stop them now!
'dont fuck with me cause the last person that fucked with me....well they lived a pretty normal life'- misty7
'ok im gonnago play pocket tanks...the only game that runs on my computer'-cruz
Sep 1 2004 1:19PM
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Sean14456
Posts: 4792 - Karma: 38
corey stated it real well about what academies are doing but what they can provide for die hard kids who just want to ski.

The one thing that was mentioned but no one else talked about was the coaches at competitions. I definatly think this is seriously undermining the point of competitions. There is no reason a coach should be able to push and pull strings with judges because he knows whoever. Its only hurting the people who dont have the coach with connections.

All this said, the skiers coming out of academies right now are absolutely mind boggling. Being at events like the VT Open only gives me a small understanding of their skill and style, but they are definatly going to be leading the field next year
-sean
________________________________________________________
Proud leader of OA-Support Group For Those Addicted To Oakley.

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Sep 1 2004 1:32PM
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Gutt
Posts: 33 - Karma: 10
I admit, I don't know them, but in a way that just proves my point. You see one you see them all, they have very similar styles (take Vanular out of the mix, he is an exception).

Tanner's 5's, 7's and 9's look totally different than anybody elses and I am pretty sure he tries to make them look as different as possible. His run might in a way be predictable, but it is still entirely unique to Tanner's individual style.
Sep 1 2004 3:59PM
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VANULAR
Posts: 1930 - Karma: 5,131
thanks mike

skiing is so hot right now!!!
Sep 1 2004 5:49PM
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jksl
Posts: 12727 - Karma: 854
i'm glad to see gutt respond to this with his spin on this topic...and now i can understand it more
but sean is right about the coaches, it's pretty lame when they try to get their athletes into the finals of comps and stuff
now i ski for a team (WV), and i know my coach doesn;t do that kinda stuff, cause it's just lame, he agrees that we should qualify on our own and knows that his kids (such as JP and Balsen) have the goods to do this

and on another note, i'm glad a post that i made caused this much of a discusion

Jeff
Poniverus
Sep 1 2004 6:24PM
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VANULAR
Posts: 1930 - Karma: 5,131
yah dude i totally agree that having coaches argue to get kids into things is rather lame, because it gives kids that have these coaches an advantage. i deffinetly think you should qualify on your own, because if your good enough, you shouldn't need someone arguing to get you into a comp. it's very lame.....

skiing is so hot right now!!!
Sep 1 2004 6:50PM
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M+M
Posts: 7935 - Karma: 25
yeah dude cauz if you get in somewhere your not ment to be, and you got in by having your coachs nagg, most of the time you will just get so embaresed, you do and dont make it for a reason, its the level of skill, not because your coach bribed the judge or w/e

*NORTHEAST CULT*

^ITS ALIVE AGAIN!!!

quagmire:'We got to do something.'
peter:'Dont worry i got an idea, an idea so smart my head would explode if i even began to know what I am talking about.

dude i talked to them about it and they said 'our budget doesnt alow it' fuck that.....they just think im ugly-bristolrider
Sep 1 2004 6:55PM
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Durtschi
Posts: 6897 - Karma: 1,878
the academy kids bring good competition to the feild



Alaska pride
Sep 1 2004 7:46PM
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NWBakerBoy
Posts: 681 - Karma: 13
nobody ever badmouthed the skiers...god
they'er sick
just take a chill pill
damn
--------------------

how do you like your blueeyed boy
Mister Death
Sep 1 2004 8:20PM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
Academies are gay. These bitches get to ski everyday and I have to work my ass off to have time enough for all my school work bullshit and skiing. It pisses me off that these academy kids go around and dominate the competitions just because they are rich bitches who get to practice everyday, and they are the people that least need the money from these comps and they make it impossible for the average skier to be able to win anything, and they go around with an arrogant I'm an academy kid I'm too good to chill with you. I have seen them. Of course your fucking good you get to go out every fucking day because your parents dish out a shit load of money


and more, much more than this, I did it my way
Sep 1 2004 8:39PM
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acc
Posts: 4122 - Karma: 222
all i know is i can't wait to see corey, jp, balsen, jeff, dan, colby, silas, marion, phillipi, and any other cva/wva guys i missed...show what academy kids really can do this winter. tear some shit up and dominate the comps.

h3o films
Sep 1 2004 8:45PM
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Melvs
Posts: 15174 - Karma: 480
Sid, a lot fo them are attending due to scholorships. I know there are a lot of them like this. yes, there ARE some rich kids there, and that cvan't be denied, but a lot are there because tehy are good to begin with and earn scholorships.

don't be jealous. You can ski all the time too. get a job at a resort, and you can ski for free. It's not that hard.
-Pat Melvin
WBP|films


'Who's not 18 yet? What? LA LA LA LA LA LA! I can't hear you.' - Jay
Sep 1 2004 11:17PM
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adrian.bee
Posts: 1602 - Karma: 258
c'mon its a valid point but if ur going to compare skiers with the same style they probably picked the two worest people to compare. Seriosly matt philipie and silas are probably the two on the team with the most unique style on that team. I mean like the 4 top cva guys have there own steez but some of the others seem to have similar styles to them. but don't get me wrong there all super rad kids but its a point that needs to be adressed. as i ski academy product myself i don't want to agree with it but there is some truth in it
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Once there was a little kid named Benefit
Walked around town with a frown, face down, lookin bent
Had problems inside, his little sister just died
Keep your head up little man, all you got is your pride- Benefit
Sep 1 2004 11:26PM
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VANULAR
Posts: 1930 - Karma: 5,131
sid^^^^^ are you serious??????? who pissed in your cotex?????????????

skiing is so hot right now!!!
Sep 2 2004 8:31AM
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AltaWest2
Posts: 543 - Karma: 19
ma


'Hey look, newly married inter-racial gay couple, burning the American Flag.'
Sep 7 2004 7:44PM
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