When did everyone get so serious?

yes

when i'm drunk and acting like an idiot, i have no issue with someone telling me i'm fucking drunk, and acting like a fucking idiot.

so if someone is jumping a car, and acting like an idiot, what's the big deal with someone telling them they're being a fucking idiot?

I hate so much because I've heard nothing about jiblife!

P.P.S.

They have Masterchef On-Demand? Oh fuck...

Why does everyone care so much about NS? I troll, I hate, I argue, and I do it so that I can kill time until I can go skiing again. Its a fucking website, don't judge people off their anonymous internet hate spam. If you can't take the heat.... Dont visit the site any more.

GREAT post BTW. Just wanted to kick off with that. Very well thought out, and brings up lots of excellent points.

So first off, I'd like to simply break off one part of your post and discuss further. If you care to go back to other parts later, then i'm more than happy!

I disagree that Newschoolers has itself had a profound effect on the ski community. I think that snowboarding and the early pioneers had the effect, which set things in motion. Newschoolers has simply taken that and run with it.

You're bang on when you say its the Bullhorn that amplifies.

However, I would dispute a few facts. The raw size of newschoolers these days means it has immense reach within the world of skiing. Sure there are other forums and sites out there - but few have the reach that NS does (TGR is about the only other one) and nobody hits the young skiers like we do. So what is said on here has influence that is far reaching.

Note also that Newschoolers is obviously focused mostly on youth, and what young - or young minded - skiers want. In terms of influence over young skiers, we are a massive behemoth army of skiers all walking together.

Look at the numbers.... in the winter over 400,000 DIFFERENT people come to newschoolers every month.

If you look at SIA data (sadly I only have 2007.08 numbers) in north america 55,000 pairs of twin tip skis sold. I'm sure its grown since then as twin tip sales have been pretty hot year over year. Lets be ultra conservative and say that number has only grown to 65,000.

That means that there's 65,000 people buying twins every season. Most people who ride twins on average will need to replace their skis every 2-3 years.

So if you assume that say 1 in 6 twin tip skiers get new gear every year... that would mean that the market size is about 400,000.

So even say you halve that expectation, or quarter it.... you still have NS representing at least half (or worst case a quarter) of young North American skiers out there. Bottom line, there is no truth to the idea that the internet is not a reflection of real life. The internet is real people doing real shit in real lives... and they take those opinions with them when they log off. It is an extremely old school way of thinking to dismiss internet users as "just those few nerdy kids".

Then lets move on to what I call the "buddy factor" in which for the most part, people have slight influence over what their buddies think. This plays out in real life when a single opinion can flow through a group of friends. Interestingly enough, this also happens online where for every opinion written roughly 20 or so people read said opinion and quietly make their decision. So small vocal minorities can really spread their word.

Now, when you say "you might wanna take a look in the mirror" - that is exactly what I'm doing.

Traditionally, magazines and movie producers were the ones that spoke down to the masses of skiers and told them what to think. They made opinions, published them, and there was no venue for feedback or discussion about it. Nowadays though, the venue for feedback is here, and the message has outgrown the magazine distribution. Most of the top mags don't send out much more than say 80,000 copies. Its great stuff, and I highly think the magazine experience is wonderful - but you can't get a message out to the entire community.

What NS has done is not just simply give a soapbox for the haters to stand on... it has centralized the place where everyone can speak and hear opinions on the direction the sport is going in - both from a skill and philosophical standpoint.

I also REALLY realize that gone are the days of simply telling people what to think. Even myself - who in the old days would just write an article and say "this is now what you think kids" has very little power to do so here. You can't force Newschoolers in a certain direction. You can't force the general consensus of young skiers with a few posts.

You can however make recommendations and point out flaws in arguments to create a counter-point vocal thought process.

When I make posts like I did at the start of this thread, I'm making sure that the people who still are free spirited feel more comfortable speaking up and voicing their opinions as well. Often times when strong opinions start flowing in one direction - people don't speak up that they oppose and it gives the appearance of things flowing in that particular direction.

Add to that the buddy factor and the raw reach of Newschoolers, and having an opinion run can have real lasting affect on our part of the sport as a whole.

I absolutely stand behind what I have said. Honestly, if you have listened, I have been saying the same thing for years. Its a worrysome trend to me in our wonderful segment of skiing where people take things too seriously. Its just like how style was never able to truly flourish... skiers had to get to Huge rotations and multiple flips as fast as we possibly can. There is some strange fundamental desire to be super serious that seems to linger in all of our hearts.

Yes I absolutely will call out the entire ski community for something if a vocal group is condemning it and nobody is supporting it. If there are supporters, and people support something then speak up! If you don't speak up, that means you agree.

Finally, I am 100% THRILLED that NS has brought about a place where you can call out anyone and everyone. It means that every skier out there has a chance at their voice being heard, and that as a group we can work towards positive end goals of the sport being a generally rad thing.

Hell I absolutely love that I can't just make a post and have everyone listen. That's whats so exciting - people can call me the fuck out all day long and make me defend my positions.

In the end we can all either agree to disagree, agree that the sport is diverse, come to a consensus or divulge into horrible flaming and arguments. All in all though, better to be doing that with other passionate skiers than working your day job.

Great post Doug, but I am 100% convinced that this is not true.

party on garth

GREAT post. i 100% agree with you, and i would have never been able to write that so nicely

i sense a large reply from chris, incoming...

Skiing is the original action sport. The biggest mistake I made when I came to Powder was thinking skiing was only 15 years old. Yes, there's some cool shit that's happened the last fifteen years but there's such a rich history of radness and Good Times.

party time

look dude, there's room on the couch, but I already burned through Masterchef...Kitchen Nghtmares?

I'm so stoned right now, that I looked down and did a double take because I didn't recognize my own nips.

 I'm watching Light the Wick, which was a really bad play as now I just wanna go ski powder. Wonder how much a flight to Argentina costs...

come on rogge... "for every he, there's a she"

we all know that's horseshit!

Wow Rogge.. I really lost a lot of respect for you with this video. People destroying pillows and trashing hotel rooms? Dog abuse? Disturbing the peace on a public bus? "a ski instructer that's a pleasure to learn from?" see.. this is what's wrong with society. This video is in such bad taste. You just lost a powder customer with that one.. Freeskier here i come!

WOW that one video made you switch magazines? the video wasn't that bad, personally i loved it. but seriously switching to a company just because of an edit.

you're not super bright.

it happens... plus i'm pretty baked i don't know if what i wrote makes sense and i don't really care..

oh newschoolers.

My guess: things got serious when people decided that it was time to pay the bills.

Example:
Newschoolers has banner ads for Netflix, Progressive Insurance and Lifetime fitness. No doubt these are banner package ad buys... but for a community that's discussing 'punk' it appears that the target messaging from the organization is, itself, mixed.

Within the inner circles of the community does anyone really give a shit? No, they're all on the same page: do what you want, make some money, enjoy life and go home at the end of the day.

Non-endemics bring the 'seriousness' because it's hard to market to ABC the idea of marketable athletes displaying themselves as such a junkshow. And before someone points out 'Jackass' or other similar shows, these shows themselves are relatively contained, controlled and neutered in contrast to what we'd like to believe is punk.

Money, it's all about the circle of money. Making it, spending it, making more and wanting it all over again. And to be honest, there's no shame in that game... we've all got to pay up at some point, whether we want to believe it or not.

On a semi-related note: want a good look at what an entire lifetime of punk + money does to you? Check out a recent Tony Alva interview. He's probably the best spokesperson for the idea that you don't have to be off your rocker to really throw down and stay true to the spirit of what you do. He's come full circle from crazy to serious to wise through reflection of his journey, and it looks like he's all the better for it.

Just my two cents.

Great thread BTW, there's some awesome stuff in here.

Thanks Bishop.

Actually netfilx, progressive insurance and lifetime fitness as well as many of those types of ads are part of ad network exchanges. So they have very little to do with our bottom line revenue.

As a matter of fact, NS frequently gets kicked off these types of networks for the content that is on here.

However, since ski companies really like it, they don't mind the type of content, and therefore we can make a living staying focused on skiers and what they want.

You're absolutely right to say you can follow the money - but there is also money in focusing on the niche. Corporate dollars are big, but there's lots of competition for them.

As well, sometimes corporations (see mountain dew) want to be branded as raw and cool. Thats why sites like www.vbs.tv have advertiers... they hit a super raw audience certain companies want to be a part of.

Not needing the punk vibe - I mean for sure. I think its great that people do both methods of going about life. I think that diversity is the most important thing that we can have in life. I'll fight for diversity until I die!

For me that's what this is all about. Its all about doing our best to fight for diversity, and not to conform to hating or loving one single thing. In a way the anarchy and constant fighting of the internet is actually the only way to breed true diversity and individuality.

This has been a great thread. I really like getting into discussions like this. :)

the ones who are good aren't serious. newschoolers has too many 12 year olds who dont know whats up and post dumb ass bull shit. if your crazy enough to be really fucking good at skiing, then you are probably a pretty nuts person, who is down with random acts of wildness, destruction, and fun at whatever cost. if you live by what mommy and daddy tell you only, and you dont do anything crazy ever once in a while, then you most definitely are not good at skiing and are probably a big pussy. like this lil kid i just quoted.

break shit.

Get your meter checked.

Skiing: 4000 B.C ish
Surfing: 1500 B.C ish

Although we'd all like to believe that skiing is the original action sport, really it's surfing. Just something to note as a matter of perspective.

Thanks for the response Bishop, noted on the banners. I think we were headed in the same direction with the banners (although my wording was missing the proper vernacular in terms of 'ad buy' vs. 'trading'), ultimately they pay the bills so you can do what you want.

Despite my love for skiing, I would have to say that skiing is and always has been one of the least possible punk sports on the planet, even if we have some characters amongst us who try to push things in a direction otherwise. This just comes from the people who populate the sport (and here's where I start a shitstorm): the already-privileged, generally upper or middle class (sorry kids), and the like. Feels like the real punk attitude comes from a little bit of struggle and a whole lot of self-imposed hard-knocks style learning based on limited-resource survival (thanks Dr. Phil). You make do, and you're hardened to do what you want, when you want, and how you want because of it.

Seth comes to mind based on the above, the guy basically funded the entire first portion of his career on absolutely meager sponsor money (remember this was when the cash was harder to come by) and paid for his own heli time pouring concrete during the summer. Shane (RIP) was a self-made man and punk in his own rite because of it. Scrapping things out a little never hurt anyone, and maybe, just maybe, it adds the extra edge.

Pick up a recent BMX mag if you want to see punk. Even skateboarding is lacking the edge it once had, but BMX... those guys are doing some gritty, gnarly and absolutely obscene shit with a lifestyle that follows as such.

During skateboarding's golden age it was fueled by a bunch of guys who came from very little, picked up the sport undoubtedly because it was fun, cheap and you could do it anywhere (good luck getting these guys on skis) and they just pushed and pushed until they either broke or excelled.

Not that punk can't exist in skiing, I'm just saying the sport isn't particularly set up to entice the punks or even support them. It almost has to be forced. What few we had, they've gotten older and moved on or mellowed out... maybe we'll see a resurgence though?

I'm not sure the last response was super clear, but my point was that Seth and Shane broke the mold during their respective period... as I'm sure many others did.

Tonight I'm going to take some more time to read through other responses. Really digging this thread.

That punk skiing is just nostalgia and a whiff from Plake's iro...

What is skiing? Skiing is fucking fun. Even more so now with with center-mounts in the park and rocker floats in the BC.

That's it, that's all. If someone doesn't do it for the fun, and instead does it for the practice, sport or acting gangster or 'gay' then so be it... but hopefully First Drop is still fucked with the worst marketing plan and team in the history of anything.

4000 bc is older than 1500 bc, so according to that timeline skiing is the OG over surfing, holtphoto. i apologize for my poorly formulated rant in that previous post ha, jus a litttle aggressive, but i stick to the gist of what i was trying to say: i don't feel that the newschool skiing movement is conservative at all. what i see is a movement driven around pushing yourself to the next level, despite the known risk for serious injury, for a lot of the time no reason other than the fact that its fun. that is pretty crazy in itself. to go for it, and to commit yourself to skiing says alot about a person, in my opinion. the skiiers i know are pretty roudy. i think you kind of have to be, and i don't think many of them would disprove of somebody jumping off a balcony, (especially a legend like tanner although i have no idea about the specifics of this apparent if3 stunt). so i don't see the skiing movement as serious, but wild and organic and revolving around fun and doing crazy shit like hucking yourself off cliffs and into burly rails or doing triples on a trampoline, shit is just wild. doing stunts that look cool and sometimes risk your body or even life doesn't mean you have to be a punk, but you have to be a little nuts (in my opinion), and have some attitude.

NS has a huge effect on ski culture!

 When  a new trick is landed, or a new type of bong is invented there is a website that notifies every freeskier instantly. Its where hundreds of people can have stupid arguments about what should be considered cool. Newschoolers is essentially a council of skiers who decide whats in and whats out. Companies like first drop and saga make outerwear specifically designed for the Newschoolers crowd, and in tern newschoolers either accepts the designs or they reject them.

really?

Point to C2theB on the dates, apparently I need to brush up on my ability to decipher timelines.

Awesome post. I gave you a 10 karma rating for lol points.

You guys are right. Skiing should be more serious.

didn't read the thread, but newschoolers is absolutely the root of the problem. There is no other action sport where a bunch of prepubescent faggots can get on the internet and over analyze shit that has no business being analyzed in the first place. The level of hivemind on here is just...ridiculous.

There needs to be more shit like that King of the hill shit with Spatziba.

More Cheers More Beers thats it thats all.

wait...you realize he was joking and playing into the thread topic right?...c'mon Rogge, have more faith, all is not lost. Unless, I have somehow misunderstood this post, haha

Haha no i think he got it.

Well, I would think so....then the whole "irony goes to die" comment through me for a loop. Maybe it was aimed at those who took your post seriously? I dunno, haha

just wow...

much needed insight and balance to the discussion.

the man who souled the world comes to mind.

YOU GOT IT BROTHER! Im sick of the movement of hate and being strict ans serious.. SO LETS START ANOTHER>join it... its called SKIER TRASH!!!!!!!

huge disagree there man. a lot of the skaters and boarders and skiers in my school. hav their group of friends and there might be a few that are "jock" but thats cuz they play like lax and football too. not cuz they're just a skier or just a skater

People are caring too much about stupid shit.. 90% of NS needs to take a chill pill.

I've noticed this on NS alot. I went on a NS hiatus for about 8 months and i come back and its not even fun anymore. Most threads are just people getting hated on for something. Not even fun anymore.

i think everyone has to settle down a little bit about skiing. the vast majority ski for fun, so why be so serious? i just dont understand why everyone gets offended nowadays when they hear something they dont like. i personally had no problem with FD's video. i would never buy any of their products but i dont hate them. and i dont give a fuck how they respond to random kids. it obviously wasnt profesional, but its their company, and i respect them for not caring what people think about them. it just gets ridiculous when i see kids complaining that FD "didnt capitalize their sentences" when the started pre orders. fuck it, im outty

I'm joining in a tad late but I want to be heard.  Which is a part of what I think the problem is and even I have fallen into the trend before.  To me it's a crowd mentality and everyone here just wants to be heard.  All the time people become misguided or misinformed and let their own personal views or the views of others become the basis of their argument, when they might be sooo far off and just not know it.

Who else is super stoked that skiing is going to be the Olympics?  I know I was, still am I guess.  I hyped the shit out of that when I heard the news.  But when I read the article by Ant Boronowski was it?  Hearing the perspective from a real industry insider and the negative effects it could have made me feel pretty stupid for not seeing that earlier.  You'll have to find the thread if you don't know what I'm talking about, I'm sure someone here has it saved.  My point being in that case I shot my mouth off about how great it would be for the sport before knowing all the facts and it may not be. 

I was there when Tanner was hanging from the balcony after IF3 and at the time it was awesome, it went with the flow.  That was either the first or second IF3, it was just getting going and it was perfectly crazy.  I remember all the hate threads after too, which were lame because it didn't even seem that bad, especially for someone who made a living launching his body 100 feet at 60 mph. 

I'll wrap this up because most people will probably only skim this post, but all it takes is one person to publicize a misguided thought, and another to think they're on to something and repeat it.  Then it snowballs and before you know know it there's a huge debate going to decide who's right and who's wrong when really it doesn't even matter.  People just want to have an opinion and to be heard, and by doing so they're going to end up on either side A or side B, usually side C is right.