Welcome to the Newschoolers forums! You may read the forums as a guest, however you must be a registered member to post. Register to become a member today!
armanzoid and OP seem to know alot so i wont even pretend to know anything about climate change but what do you guys think about the graph that shows co2 rise after temp goes up by about 4 hundred years?
The massive University of East Anglia global-warmist archives are now searchable at this site, and one particular email demonstrates the nexus between the scientific shenanigans and the popular press, on which most people rely for their information on global warming. This email, dated Sept. 29, 2009, is from Michael Mann of the University of Pennsylvania to New York Times warm correspondent Andrew Revkin. The crucial exchange begins with this question from Revkin (quoting verbatim):
I'm going to blog on this as it relates to the value of the peer review process and not on the merits of the mcintyre et al attacks. peer review, for all its imperfections, is where the herky-jerky process of knowledge building happens, would you agree?And here is Mann's response:
Re, your point at the end--you've taken the words out of my mouth. Skepticism is essential for the functioning of science. It yields an erratic path towards eventual truth. But legitimate scientific skepticism is exercised through formal scientific circles, in particular the peer review process. A necessary though not in general sufficient condition for taking a scientific criticism seriously is that it has passed through the legitimate scientific peer review process. those such as McIntyre who operate almost entirely outside of this system are not to be trusted.In principle, Revkin and Mann are quite right. But as we noted Monday, one of the most damning findings in the archives concerns the corruption of the peer-review process.
In one email, under the subject line "HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL," Phil Jones of East Anglia writes to Mann: "I can't see either of these papers being in the next IPCC report. Kevin and I will keep them out somehow--even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"
In another, Mann--discussing a journal that has published a paper by skeptical scientists, puts forward a plan for such a redefinition:
This was the danger of always criticising the skeptics for not publishing in the "peer-reviewed literature". Obviously, they found a solution to that--take over a journal! So what do we do about this? I think we have to stop considering "Climate Research" as a legitimate peer-reviewed journal. Perhaps we should encourage our colleagues in the climate research community to no longer submit to, or cite papers in, this journal. We would also need to consider what we tell or request of our more reasonable colleagues who currently sit on the editorial board...
The scare quotes around "peer-reviewed literature" are Mann's. And it hardly needs to be said that peer review is a sham if papers that present alternative hypotheses are not even allowed into the process.
So how does Revkin, who two months ago took the words out of Mann's mouth, deal with this problem? Barely at all. In a Sunday amendment to a Friday blog post, he mentions it and quickly changes the subject:
[UPDATE, 11/22: Juliet Eilperin of the Washington Post explores some email exchanges criticizing certain peer-reviewed papers and journals and focused on excluding the papers from inclusion in the Intergovernmental Panel On Climate Change report. I'm running down tips and assertions related to the theft and hackings. It remains interesting that before they were placed on an ftp site and dispersed across the Internet, someone tried to plant them on Realclimate.org and publish a mock post linking to them. Needless to say, if anyone has information or ideas, feel free to email dotearth AT nytimes.com.]Yesterday, he had another post, titled "Report Aims to Clarify Climate Risk for Diplomats." Here's how it begins:
A team of climate scientists, seeking to remind the negotiators who will hammer out a new climate treaty of what is at stake, has produced The Copenhagen Diagnosis, a summary of the latest peer-reviewed science on the anticipated impacts of human-driven global warming.Revkin reports that the "latest peer-reviewed science" shows that "the case for climate change as a serious risk to human affairs" is "clear, despite recent firestorms over some data sets and scientists' actions."
What we now know about the "peer review" process in this field indicates that this is a predetermined conclusion. Revkin misleads his readers by describing it as if it were a real finding.
HAs anybody ever heard of looking at things like motive? Who has what to gain? What is at stake. The chance each side is lying. REasons, things like that.
Without ever caring where you end up at. The ad thing is people are drilled with stuff so hard in school and early life, most people will never break those mental barriers.
Just a pack of sheep being led around
WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama's top science adviser urged lawmakers to act to curb emissions of greenhouse gases, despite the uproar over emails in which some prominent climate scientists appeared to advocate squelching the views of researchers skeptical that human activity is driving a dangerous rise in global temperatures.
The adviser, John Holdren, said scientists generally are capable of defensiveness, bias and "misbehavior." But he said the meaning of some of the statements in the emails isn't clear, and that the significance of others has been exaggerated.
Human activity is "beyond any reasonable doubt" the primary cause of warming temperatures, Mr. Holdren said.
Mr. Holdren's comments drew a unanimously supportive response from Democrats and unanimous skepticism from Republicans, some of whom called for a congressional inquiry into the dispute over the integrity of climate science.
Proposed legislation that would impose caps on U.S. emissions of carbon dioxide and other gases linked to climate change is stalled in the Senate, where Democratic leaders have said they don't plan to act on the measure until next spring. The proposal would require businesses to buy pollution permits and set up a system to trade those emissions rights.
The bill's future is uncertain because of strong opposition from Republicans and many Democrats. Mr. Obama has said he will offer to commit the U.S. to cutting overall greenhouse-gas emissions when he stops at the United Nations climate summit in Copenhagen next week. But Mr. Obama can't deliver on that promise without congressional approval.
The hearing by the House Select Committee on Energy Independence and Global Warming at times resembled a science lecture, with an administration official pouring frozen carbon dioxide into a glass of water to demonstrate how carbon dioxide acidifies the world's oceans.
Supporters of emissions caps said the controversy over the behavior of prominent climate researchers doesn't undercut the scientific rationale for action. Meanwhile, opponents of such caps said the foundations of the case for man-made global warming are in question because of the disclosures from thousands of emails from the University of East Anglia's Climate Research Unit. The emails suggest that prominent climate researchers sought to disguise certain discrepancies in their data showing a trend of rising global temperatures and attack those who disagreed with their views.
"However this controversy comes out, the result will not call into question the bulk of our understanding of how the climate works or how humans affect it," said Mr. Holdren, director of the Office of Science and Technology Policy. He agreed it is important to "get to the bottom of" the emails' meaning, but emphasized that the vast majority of scientists who have studied climate change agree that failure to act promptly to curb emissions of heat-trapping gases is "overwhelmingly likely" to lead to extreme and damaging impacts on the planet.
His comments were challenged by Rep. James Sensenbrenner, a Wisconsin Republican who said the emails "at worst" suggest "a massive scientific international fraud."
"We're being asked as a Congress to make major changes in American society in energy use," he said. "The scientists may be able to change their story and do more research, but once Congress passes a law, it will be as difficult to undo the consequences of that law as putting milk back in the cow."
Lawmakers supportive of capping emissions suggested that Republicans were latching onto the emails as a way of deflecting attention from evidence that human activity is damaging the planet.
The panel's chairman, Rep. Edward Markey (D., Mass.), cited a 2001 reported by the National Academy of Sciences – a study requested by then-President George W. Bush – that said "global warming could well have serious adverse societal and ecological impacts by the end of the century."
The hearing at times focused on data showing that the Earth has cooled in recent years.
Mr. Holdren and Jane Lubchenco, administrator of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, said such temperature dips were natural fluctuations. The 10 warmest years recorded since 1880 have all occurred within the past 12 years, they said. They added that the U.S. average temperature has risen more than two degrees Fahrenheit over the past 50 years and is projected to rise more.
Rep. Candice Miller (R., Mich.) expressed uncertainty about whether temperature changes can be blamed primarily on human activity. She said the emails from the British lab showed that "anyone who questions the ideology…that man is creating all this" is immediately derided as someone indifferent to the fate of the world.
"These emails are an embarrassment on the brink of Copenhagen," she said.
Wednesday's hearing came a day after Phil Jones, a British scientist at the heart of the email controversy, temporarily stepped down as director of the Climate Research Unit amid an internal probe.
In a joint letter Wednesday, four Republican lawmakers urged the Environmental Protection Agency to withdraw its proposed finding that greenhouse-gas emissions from vehicles endanger human health, saying that the hacked emails raise questions about the science behind the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change reports that form the basis for the EPA ruling.
The four lawmakers, two congressmen and two senators, urged the EPA to withdraw the proposed endangerment finding "until the agency can demonstrate the science underlying these regulatory decisions has not been compromised." The EPA didn't immediately respond to a request for comment.
—Keith Johnson contributed to this article.