Why not to get the flu shot

since the hiv aids drug was a combo vaccine, only half of the drug was from the french pharmaceutical-- the point stands, the hiv/aids vaccine comes out of an international collaboration, which is the best way to approach global health issues.

That was one example, and you are kidding yourself if you don't think that Pfizer will take a hit when Lipitor goes of patent even if it is formed in to a new combination drug.

Regardless, there is difference between big pharma and nonprofit/academic research.  However, saying one is better than the other is ridiculous.  Academia has the luxury of not having to turn a profit and is funded off of their grants, so their research is somewhat without bounds.  Pharma has to use their profit for their research, so they can only pursue targets that have the highest earning potential.  The best collaboration is not multinational like you said (because everything is multinational already, journals, companies, etc...globalization) but in actuality is a collaboration between big business pharma and non-profit/academia.  In this sense, funding can come from pharma and from grants as well as allowing academia to use the resources that pharma has (compare a lab at Pfizer to one at a University...the Uni lab is a joke) and allow the academics do the research with Pharma benefitting in the long run by being able to market the product.

how are u doing now?

it's not really taking a hit though, i mean they've certainly recouped the research costs involved with the development of lipitor, and they'll still be making a profit with the sales that still come in even after the release of the generic. They have simply reached a cap point where they can no longer have total control over the health of patients.

Health care shouldn't be an industry where you expect to have indefinite free reign over profits, considering that what you are selling is 'life' in the most general sense.

I never a flu vaccine of any kind. The only vaccines I have ever received are the ones you need for elementary school, otherwise, nothing. I played in dirt and ate shit as a kid. I never get sick usually, and I believe it is a result of my dirty kid self. My body has a nice little immune system built up now. Unless I get the flu, I don't believe there is a real reason to get the shot, I'll let my body do the work.

hahaha, 4chan

right now i'm wishing i'd gotten the vaccine

So healthcare isn't a business?  Should McDonalds be any cheaper, because people have the right to eat food?  No, they exist to sell themselves.  That is all it is.   No, they should not have indefinite free reign over profits, but currently the patent system is very broken.  It needs to be either changed or re-written for certain aspects.  While yes, they will still make a profit on Lipitor sales, they will be drastically lower than they are now.  So if that happens to all of their blockbuster drugs in the next 10 years and they don't find anything new...what then?  They will no longer be able to fund their research, and it will be up to the government to do the funding for them.  However at this stage, even if they can find something to combat the constantly evolving microorganisms, it will still take 10 years to get to market due to FDA regulations.  So the only way that a pharmaceutical company can even hope to be alive in the future is to make as big of profits as possible now, and hope that they have enough money for future research down the road.

Does that make sense?

Except it doesn't, it wasn't quite clear but it seemed like the other half was developed by or with funding from the US Army. The only part where the Philippines played a significant role was in testing it on their HIV susceptible population.

first off, McDonald's is as cheap as it is, in part, because of food subsidies, which have been implemented specifically because we do believe people have a right to eat food.

that said I'm having trouble understanding what you're arguing for with reformed patent laws; are you suggesting that pharmaceutical companies ought not have to face competition with drugs they develop? What sort of checks will there be to protect the consumer, who already has a huge limitation on their autonomy?

I still think it's hard to make the case that pfizer et al are feeling pressure because of the current laws; they DO make huge profits, they are still producing drugs and mass marketing them to a public that doesn't necessarily need them.

are you a republican?

To me, collaboration is not a matter of fairness, rather, it's about effectiveness. If the groups involved in developing cures were able to share the discoveries through out the development process, it seems self evident that this would produce positive results faster than if the groups involved had to divide their attention between beating their competition and beating the disease, keeping their findings secret.

Redundancy in development wastes time, resources, and puts each individual involved in clinical trials at unnecessary risk. This is one aspect of open development that is lacking in the private-competitive model.

"that said I'm having trouble understanding what you're arguing for with reformed patent laws; are you suggesting that pharmaceutical companies ought not have to face competition with drugs they develop? What sort of checks will there be to protect the consumer, who already has a huge limitation on their autonomy?

I still think it's hard to make the case that pfizer et al are feeling pressure because of the current laws; they DO make huge profits, they are still producing drugs and mass marketing them to a public that doesn't necessarily need them."

Ok so of course they should face competition.  However the competition in their business is a little different than other businesses.  Say the drug-to-market process takes longer than it usually does, say it takes them 14 years to get the drug to market.  That leaves them 1 year to make a billion dollars.  What do you think the chances of that happening is?  Next to nothing I promise you, drugs that make 1 billion dollars a year are called blockbuster drugs for a reason.  After that year is up, anyone can take their patent and make the exact same drug under a different name and make tons of money without doing any of the work.  That isn't the same as other competition between businesses. Answer me this, where is the incentive if someone can take your work and make all the profit off of your initial investment?  That is the crux of the matter.

And no, of course they aren't feeling the pressure right now.  Did you completely miss what I said about the FUTURE?  It is the future they have to worry about, because it takes on average 10 years for them to make a profit off of their initial investment.  You are just skating around my crucial points.   It's the doctors that give the people the drugs, not Pfizer, they are both guilty.  However, saying something like Lipitor is marketing a drug to people that don't need them is idiocy.  It has saved many many lives.


And to your second post, of course they share their discoveries throughout the development process.  Not only do they share it among hundreds of their own employees, but they publish papers and case studies and clinical tries.  Yes some things are kept secret, but they are published soon after in papers or as a patent and become a drug.  There is some redundancy, but not nearly as much as you think.  On top of that, drug companies like Pfizer bring in Academic professors all the time for consultation and collaboration.  Believe me, I have done it on two different occasions and it is not lacking in the private-competitive model.

This is how I feel, and how it should be.

that doesnt make sense. If you get the flu the flu shot doesnt cure you

!!!AWESOME!!!

Of course shes faking it



unless she has like adult onset cerebral palsy which that looks like but that doesnt really exist.


Attention whore is what i see. Who the fuck gets like that from a flu shot. No one does. She is a troll

this was updated nov 5th and it doesnt mention anything like that video http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccination/vaccine_safety.htm 

fake no way it was on oprah.........and for everyone whos scared every vacine has 1 and million effects like this its no different than getting your annual flu shot

dont worry its a 1 out of a million chance,and you diffinitly not going to recieve that disease

that lady didnt have side effects until ten day later

i laughed so hard at that vid

am i going to hell?

i lol'd
+k

thats terrible...

not untill we varify if it is definitely real or not

that was a nice mood lifter

You people suck at reading threads nowadays.  Read the end of the first page.

I respect your authority and experience on the subject, I appreciate how and what you said. I think you understand where I'm coming from, therefore I'll give you one rebuttal, and one defense, but thank you for your side of things.

the rebuttal first, the TRIPS agreement applies to drugs made after 1989 and provides protection for 20 years, not 15, AND one can apply for special consideration and get up to an additional 5 year extension on top of the initial 20.

to my defense, if the intra-company discussions are good because of the diversity of ideas and resources that can work on one problem, then inter-company collaboration, which has a more diverse set of ideas and resources than a single company would be better.

I'd grant that it wouldn't be as easy to distribute the proper credit (money) for each owns contribution to the end result, but that's the problem when you have the extrinsic good of medicine trump the intrinsic good of health.

The FDA is so corrupted with officials swinging in and out between government jobs and highly paid private industry jobs in the same sector that the whole thing is pointless. If some legal matter comes along that threatens anything drug companies or agriculture touch, the FDA will surely change it, no matter what cost to the consumer.

never got a shot. never got the flew

*flu*

can you get a vid of her on oprah?  also they didnt say anything about the h1 n1 vaccine. they just said she got a flu shot

plus nobody likes getting shots

because you dont need to get the h1n1 shot. more people die yearly of stuff related to seasonal flu than this. its unnecessary. go eat an apple and an orange and you're fine.