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Vote for Barack=Vote Against the Constitution

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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,455
Let me start off by saying I dislike McCain even more than Obama.  I'm just posting this video to show that Obama is not the perfect, object of saviour for the country that everyone is putting him out to be.  Change! Yes, he will bring change.  Just remember, not all change is good.

Obama's 10 point plan to get virtually eliminate the 2nd Amendment:



Wake up people.  You have been led to believe that you only have two options here. This is not true.  Our system was built to have more than two.  Having a bipartisan system is the main reason that the Electoral System is so worthless nowadays.
Aug 25 2008 5:14PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
My dad owns a handgun for self defense. He's a banker you see, and during the 80's there was a big scare of thugs breaking into bank employees houses and kidnapping/holding their families hostage and/or forcing the employee to unlock a vault at gunpoint.
Aug 28 2008 2:04AM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
so by the time he realizes hes getting robbed and hes at gunpoint.... what exactly does he plan to do...
Aug 28 2008 2:15AM
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beer.
Posts: 3096 - Karma: 44
exactly
Aug 28 2008 2:24AM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,455
Telekinesis! Duh. Pull some Carrie shit on their ass.
Aug 28 2008 2:26AM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24725 - Karma: 29,944
As of right now, I live in Concord, California.
Aug 28 2008 3:13AM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
At least with abortion, there's something at stake... freedom for women to control their own bodies vs. murdering children (if you believe a fetus is a person, which isn't a debate to get into here, I'm just demonstrating that the issue has some weight to it). The right to bear arms is completely unnecessary to a functioning democracy in this day and age, but people get all huffy about it. Meanwhile you have an administration that punches a big loophole right through the middle of Habeus Corpus, which is absolutely REQUIRED for a functioning democracy, and no one pays any attention. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the american public is like that mediocre C student in high school who may have ADD that's gone untreated, or may just be completely useless. 96% of you really just don't get it.
Aug 28 2008 5:01AM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24725 - Karma: 29,944

the post of champions...

Aug 28 2008 6:06AM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
So if he is put into a situation where he is forced to defend himself or his family, he shouldn't have a gun? I'm sure he's put a lot more thought into that than you have, and it seems more logical to at least have the option if you can do it...or we could just stick with what the paste eating retards do in horror movies and grab the biggest kitchen knife they can find (and funny how it never works).

People don't own a gun for self defense because they plan on looking for trouble and shooting people. They own a gun so that they never have to use it, but they have it in case circumstances become dangerous enough to warrant using it. You kids just really don't get that.
Aug 28 2008 1:17PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
You're bringing Habeus Corpus into this? Really? A lot of people actually do care about that, but I really don't want to get into that today. Your beef should be with the apathetic Congress and the House, not the American people.

I already said my piece on how the gun laws should work in this country. You can't have a blanket law for everyone because Manhattan, New York is not in any way the same as Fairbanks, Alaska.

And the C student comment was grossly off base and extremely arrogant. As if they're aren't any stupid, misguided, and/or extremely opinionated people in Canada, or any other country around the globe. If that were true, communism and fascism would not exist.
Aug 28 2008 1:30PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
I get it goddamn perfectly. they never have to use it. the chances of it being used properly are fucking miniscule. while chances are that either
a) the gun will never be accessible
b) someone who shouldnt have been shot gets shot
c) daddys little boy finds daddys gun and accidentally blows his or his friends head off.

the dangers far outweigh the minute chance that the gun will be useful. not to mention whipping out a gun will probably just piss the criminal off more, and increase the chances of getting someone killed
Aug 28 2008 3:52PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
Since none of those have ever happened, they are all of an equally minuscule chance in my parents house. But our family has always been responsible around firearms, so I don't think any of them would give a flying fuck what you think. Guns are perfectly fine if people know how to be responsible with them, people who are not have no business with them. You really just don't get it.
Aug 28 2008 4:55PM
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Franny
Posts: 3980 - Karma: 77
Yeah cuz guns cant kill you......
Aug 28 2008 6:14PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
Here I thought we were talking about gun ownership in general and whether the public should be allowed to have them. Its not like the only people that choose to exercise their right through the 2nd amendment are people that live in urban lofts and have a Smith & Wesson tucked between their mattresses. Most people that have a CCW don't tell other people that they have one...kinda defeats the purpose of concealing a weapon if you tell everybody you're packing heat.

I don't personally own a gun and don't plan on getting one anytime soon. I do however know how to use and maintain a firearm if I choose to do so. Just because I choose not to own a gun does not mean I think everybody in this country should conform to my choice. If a responsible and law abiding citizen chooses to own a gun, they are well within their rights and I am fine with that.
Aug 28 2008 6:17PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
But as I mentioned in another thread several months ago...how may gun related homicides come from people who have CCWs? And punishment is very harsh if people abuse their concealed permit. In Colorado, if you have a CCW and you do not do something as simple as notifying the government if any of your contact information has changed, they can revoke your permit forever. And there are certain legal parameters that state where you can and cannot have a concealed weapon on you. Most people that criticize CCWs really don't understand how they work.
Aug 28 2008 6:33PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
is saying "you really just dont get it" supposed to make your point that much better or something. stop using it. i get it perfectly fine and the point is, too many people ARENT responsible with guns. regardless of the hangun ban (which i would be fine with being regional, aka only in cities, but id rather see countrywide than not at all if i had to choose) there needs to be MUCH more careful screening before someone can purchase a gun. classes, etc. im talking like drivers ed type stuff, but for gun owners
Aug 28 2008 6:41PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
hes just gonna spit the same crap back over and over that it CAN be used for good. not that it ever is but its POSSIBLE
Aug 28 2008 6:45PM
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shradicaljoe
Posts: 140 - Karma: 12
the fact that it came from the nra is what makes it lose credibility for me. they can put whatever the fuck they want on there. its just like the internet, just because somebody wrote it down doesnt make it true. and to whoever created this thread, you shoulda done more research before you say shit like "Vote for Barack=Vote Against the Constitution". and besides none of this would have gotten passed anyway. there are too many fucking rednecks.
Aug 28 2008 6:48PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
not to mention the whole interpretation aspect. it says the right to bear arms it doesnt really specify limitations. Arguably a nuke is a form of armament. can i own one of those? how about an m1a1 or an rpg.
Aug 28 2008 6:49PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
No, I'm saying "you don't get it" because you don't see eye-to-eye with the majority of legal gun owners. Most people seem assume that gun owners are idiots or trigger happy red necks that get drunk and shoot stop signs.

All guns are individually registered to their owner, much like a car. If a firearm is misused it can be traced back to the owner and they will be held responsible...unless the gun is stolen in which case no laws about gun ownership even matter.

If people really want to kill someone with a gun, it's not that hard to get one regardless of whether the 2nd amendment exists or not. Drugs and people aren't the only things that can cross the Mexican border.

As to more responsible gun ownership, that what organizations like the NRA try to do. They have a slew of programs regarding responsible care and use of firearms.
Aug 28 2008 6:52PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,455
I can't think of one. Unless some foreign country invaded us by sea/land or the government started laying down martial law police state and herded us all into concentration camps (sadly, the latter is probably more likely), I can't think of a good reason to have a concealed weapon in populated, public areas.  LIke you and I said earlier, he nailed it on the head with the state sovereignty point.  Unfortunately, we are slowly losing our State Sovereignty as we give up our rights to the federal level of gov't.

And I admit, I overreacted a bit when posting this thread, I was just really angry at all the brainwashing and bullshitting I've been seeing in the media and other places.  This video was the first video I came across while in that mood.  I like where it is going now though.
Aug 28 2008 6:52PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
All CCW holders are required to take handgun safety/care/use courses and they are also recommended to practice using their handgun on a regular basis.
Aug 28 2008 6:56PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
Because it grants Americans the freedom of choice.
Aug 28 2008 6:57PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
i realize that alot of them arent, but too many of them are....

regarding the registration thats great that they can trace it back AFTER its been used irresponsibly. at that point its too late, someone is already.

and yeah its still POSSIBLE to get one. but look at england. hanguns are banned, and the number of gun deaths is exponentially smaller per capita.

and i respect that the NRA has programs, but they arent mandatory... i want to see mandatory classes before you can ever purchase a gun
Aug 28 2008 6:58PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,455
He's for the Patriot Act and supports even further gun restrictions.  That's enough for me right there.  I've said it before and I'll say it again, creating new laws can't fix a cultural problem.
Aug 28 2008 7:01PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
what? that doesnt make sense. the freedom of choice to carry a gun that chances are they wont be able to use responsibly in a real emergency, and could potentially take an innocent life? thats not a choice
Aug 28 2008 7:01PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
If the US was a small island and had the same kind of comprehensive government CCTV, it would be much easier to control.
Aug 28 2008 7:01PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
it has nothing to do with being a small island. they could still be easily snuck in. and yeah there is still the occasional gun death, but they are far and few between.
Aug 28 2008 7:02PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
If Americans choose to own a gun, the constitution grants them the right to do so. That means it is the individual that can choose to have one or not, rather than the government. That was much of the basis for writing the original Bill of Rights in the first place.
Aug 28 2008 7:04PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,455
Yes, handguns are banned but people get stabbed and mugged at knife point there all the time.  And don't use England as an example on this type of topic, the police there don't need even need probable cause to enter your home and/or search you.
Aug 28 2008 7:06PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
When the Bill of Rights was written, there was a necessity to gun ownership. Today there are still situations where it is a necessity. There has never been any productive necessity to do drugs. Poor comparison.
Aug 28 2008 7:06PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
own a gun. gun is a broad term. could be referring to rifles as well. and nowhere does it say you can have it hidden to whip out and fire at a believed "criminal" (that situation could be misinterpreted) possible taking out pedestrians in the process. go ahead. own rifles. if you live outside the city, MAYBE hanguns (but really no). weapons in an urban environment are unnecessary
Aug 28 2008 7:07PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
Then quit bitching and write your congressmen. If enough of the American public agrees with you, it will be changed.
Aug 28 2008 7:11PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
the same could be said to you. quit bitching about how your losing your right to run around packing heat, and write YOUR congressman. plus whats to say i havent already. however part of the public agreeing with me would be spreading the word, and ns would be one place to do that. in a thread like this
Aug 28 2008 7:15PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
Ranchers, for example, need guns to protect their livestock.
Aug 28 2008 7:16PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
when the bill of rights was written, women couldnt vote and slaves were still acceptable. america changes
Aug 28 2008 7:16PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
I haven't lost anything, nor do I think our gun rights will change much any time soon. I am merely defending my position...which happens to be much like what is currently in practice.
Aug 28 2008 7:19PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
Then keep writing your congressmen and "spreading the word".
Aug 28 2008 7:20PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
and rifles will do just fine... i have no problem with that
Aug 28 2008 7:20PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
They need shotguns too. And you can saw off the barrel on those things and hide them in a coat.
Aug 28 2008 7:23PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
still beats the shit out of hand guns.
Aug 28 2008 7:24PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
hahahahahaa
Aug 28 2008 7:43PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
By necessity I mean some function in society, and to simplify things because it was never logistically practical or even possible to issue permits back in the early days of this country, it was just much simpler to allow everybody to have them. The people who drafted the Bill of Rights concluded that citizens should be given the choice because it was a both common and functional.

And permits? What the hell would issuing any more permits do? You wouldn't even know who has one because they are (big surprise!) CONCEALING their gun. All that would do is just make guys like you "feel safer", which you had earlier concluded was not a necessary thing.
Aug 29 2008 12:40AM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
How typical, I give people that disagree with me a little constructive advice and they just scoff at it for the sake of polarizing everything. Honestly I'm not going to lose sleep over the issue either way because I had already stated that this is a smaller issue in the current grand scheme of things.
Aug 29 2008 12:40AM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
Well duh! If people want to hide something from you, they'll do whether its legal or not.
Aug 29 2008 12:41AM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
Since you put no absolutely no emphasis on "you" in the previous post, I originally thought that was more of a general proposition. But since it was a question that asked me as an individual, its obvious that you clearly failed to read and earlier post that stated that I do not own a gun. I personally don't need a gun at the moment. So which is it?

In any case if I did it would either be for recreation, self defense, or both.
Aug 29 2008 12:42AM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
a) you missed the point. permits for work purposes ie armored cars. not so that joe schmo down the street can have a 9 mm in his coat on the way to work in case he gets mugged.

b) get out of the past. thats twice now that youve mentioned how gun laws were different when the bill of rights was written. they also used muskets then. laws need to change with the change of the country over several hundred years
Aug 29 2008 12:53AM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
And you're telling me thats going to keep everyone who doesn't have one of these special jobs from ever carrying a gun without a permit? Theres a bulletproof argument if I ever heard one.
Aug 29 2008 12:53AM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
They had legal slavery back then too. If the people feel things need to be changed, they'll change.
Aug 29 2008 12:54AM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
no its not going to keep everyone. but it would reduce the number. your talking in absolutes here, you can never absolutely eliminate anything really, but you can make attempts to drastically reduce
Aug 29 2008 12:55AM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
Of what? CCWs? I again ask anyone to find a statistic that links gun related homicides directly to the number of people with concealed permits.
Aug 29 2008 12:59AM
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