THE biggest problem in skiing, much bigger than the hater culture is...

 i was kind of hoping this thread could be left for debate about a world tour, and throwing some support behind it.  But seeing as though you brought up Jon and Simons event, i thought itd be good to bring up two names:

- Matt Duhamel
- Marshall Lacroix

Look at the depth of this sport...there are always new names popping up on podiums.  How about these five names:

- Kalle Leinonen
- Aleksander Aurdal
- Yuta Ueno
- Satoshi Yamashita

All managed to mix it with the big guns at the Nippon open, an event coinciding with the NAO

Now the question is, how comes these guys arent household names, even though theyre sitting on podiums in major events? and where do these guys actually sit in the big scheme of things that is competitive skiing? and how ridiculous is it that we dont get to see the best guys skiing against each other week in week out?

I wasn't at the event and, maybe to your surprise, I actually believe Jon probably deserved second place. I think Jon should continue designing courses they way he likes them and choosing judges who he respects. I believe it will progress the sport. But you can't deny that doing so gives him a distinct advantage--which does not mean the judging was rigged or biased. But if the point of rider designed events is to allow newcomers to rise up (which I don't necessarily believe was Jon's primary intention), rider-organizers should take a seat at their own events.

It's too bad the FIS can't get rid of the antiquated systems they have. It seems to me there is already a system in place that culminates in the Olympics to find the best. 

I agree, freeskiing as a whole seems so disorganized and thrown together... NS is like the one thing in our sport that keeps people up-to-date and on the same page, but something like this is obviously beyond the capacity of Newschoolers. I'm sick of hearing about cool new riders like Bobby Brown and then they fade into obscurity after one comp and you never really hear from them for months. Or riders like Tom Wallisch who absolutely slay but have trouble breaking into the established pro scene.

Contrary to a lot of opinions in this thread, I think a World Tour would really help the little guys. There's the big event, the actual World Tour, which has the big guys who are already established in the sport, maybe 30 of them, and have a few qualifiers. Then you have smaller, localized events that are pretty much open to anyone who wants to compete... top skier from each of those comps moves on to the next level (national or regional) and then the next (North American, European, etc). Now, say you have one for Europe, one for North America, one for Asia. Top 5 skiers from each of those events replaces the 15 lowest-scoring pros in the World Tour, so there's 15 pros and 15 nobodies. You could even keep the 15 lowest-scoring pros and just tack on the extra 15 and make a big comp. I donno haha, I'm definitely not the one to design this shit... but this is a fucking good idea and someone needs to hop on it and start making things happen.

wow, there are alot of good ideas being thrown around here, i just wish i had more t contribute to the thread, but i agree with pretty much every point hit in this thread and agree that the competition scene is currently lackluster and that some sort of orginization is needed!

I have yet to see a better comp rider then jon olson and can definatly say that whatever the course is, whoever the judges are, he can podium at any event he enters.


The thing is, with him hiring the judges, he knows that if he dosnt deserve to win or podium, he wont, if he deserve to score well, he will.

And him designing the course just makes it that much better for pretty much everyone around since he really knows how to build jumps that people enjoy hitting.

you sir, are a genius. +

I think that the WCT and qualifying tour setup like surfing has is a good start. But the top level tour doesn't have to be exclusively invitation only. Look at something like the PGA Tour. You've got your normal events every weekend, but also invite-only events like the Masters and Mercedes Championships. And at the other end of the spectrum, Open events like the US Open and British Open. Theoretically anyone has a chance to win those competetions. Skiing should try and adopt a similar setup for a World Freeride Tour. Have a point system to rank the top 50 guys or whatever compete in most events, but still have major open events like the US Open an European Open that remain, where say the top 20 spots are taken, then every other spot is qual-only. And at the other end of the spectrum, have invite only events that showcase the world's best like say the X Games and JOI. With a couple open events combined with a smaller secondary tour, there would remain the opportunity to join the pro tour in the future.

Now, the problem with defining who really is best in skiing is not as easy as this. Skiing stands relatively alone with Surfing and Snowboarding, where competitions by themselves don't define the best. There are many pro is all of these disiplines that do participate in the comp scene and that is fine. As mentioned above, there will always be a market for this and movie parts/photoshoots and perhaps creative events like the k2 back 9 (I'd love to see this again by the way) to showcase these athletes. There is also the problem of park skiing vs. backcountry vs. big mountain, and beyond that, pipe vs. big air vs. slopestyle. Backcountry events are likely too difficult to successfully pull off consistently, so niche events or movie parts/photoshoots will probably have to remain the only way to do this. Big Mountain skiing is waaay too different as will always remain its own thing. The Big Mountain guys already have a decent format with the IFSA World Tour and somewhat junior circuits throughout North America, and will continue to do so. If skiers want to compete in both, they will have to make a choice, like some PGA Tour golfers player select events on the European Tour. As for pipe vs. big air vs. slopestyle, the only way to do these is to do them at each event and award equal points for each. If you want to be definied as the best park skier in the world, you're going to have to be good at all of them. In motorracing, some guys are better at ovals and some at street circuits, but the best can do both. To a lesser extent with golf; some guys are great links players, some are better at the longer more american type courses. But the best can win at both.

Jon is right that something like this is probably a couple years off, but we should be moving towards it. Starting with just organizing events to not overlap, then trying to figure out scheduling so that european or asian events fall together and north american events fall together to make it easier (and cheaper) for athletes to make all of these stops. Once something like that has begun to happen, then start talking about a points system and world tour. Not that we need to be taken seriously be the rest of the world or that we really want to sell out to big corporations, but I'm sure more pros would like to be able to make more money doing what they do, not just the top 5 guys or so. And unfortunately if we want to make it to the Olympics, more money and exposure is neccessary for this to happen. Whether or not you think the Olympics are the pinnacle of this sport, I'd like to see you try and find one person would wouldn't want to win a gold medal for their country in front of a billion people.

Wow, I didn't even read the whole post. If you think competitions are the best way to grow and progress our sport then you can go suck a fat one.

Ok I read the whole thing and pretty much maintain my view. I guess comps are acceptable to bring out the kids; other than that it's always the same old shiat. Basically, comps are pretty fucking lame, especially when established pro skiers are doing them. Go film and do something progressive.

P.S. The only comps actually worth watching are snowboard X-Games big air and skiing X-Games superpipe.

THE biggest problem in skiing is people who think you need a ranking system to legimate the sport. thats fucking stupid. the only "global" tour in snowboarding is the artic challenge points system and thats a huge mixture of comps that are ranked through the artic challenge. but no one cares about that ranking except snowboarders, specificaly snowboarders who are trying to get enough points to get into the artic challenge. the public doesn't even know that this "tour" exists.

how do you even define the "best" skier? what if someone gets hurt and can't compete? what if it interferes with their filming schedule? ect, etc. if you want the sport to grow fincially, get that shit in the olympics. it can't be that hard, snowboarding got in and the FIS hated snowboarding. you want to progress skiing? let skiers do whatever the fuck they want in front of a camera and you'll be golden.

bottomline, i'm not saying you're stupid, i'm saying you're dead wrong.

that would be a great format.

skiing needs a more of a struture comps wise

i agree the wqs/wct model is perfect. if it were combined into a pipe/slope/big air format it would work well with a separate world champ for each.  it would mark a clear path for any young guns wanting to make a name for themselves. atm. there are far too few comps esp. Opens and no clear format.

Some great discussion here, and good to see its getting a bit more exposure via the sticky. cheers to whoever did that!

and interesting to see jon's thread which has popped up since. i think the underlying points we have here is that scheduling is the biggest issue...event organisers from around the globe need to come together and realise how much more exposure they are going to get if they put their event on a World Tour...this structure is most definitely in their best interests. instead of competing against other with overlapping schedules, the spotlight can be placed firmly on their event (and for sponsors, on their brand), at the particular.

i dont have the stats off the top of my head, but the number of people who watch live streaming of the WCT events is MASSIVE...another component which has lead to the amazing growth of surfing.

another point that seems to be set in stone is a primary and secondary tour scene...its the only way in which the best guys can be reconised, as can the best up and comers.  and for those who say 'but the up and comers will get left behind'....not true at all. Look at what i said in my past posts...as sports grow and there is more capital flowing through the system, more money is pumped back into the sport, through the up and comers, R&D, and even philanthropic things, relative to skiing for example, global warming and avalanche awareness.  Also, look at how big the nationwide golf tour is, and things like English Championship football, or college basketball and NFL.

Keep the thoughts coming

And peace, especially from you Shibby...your not doing the fight against the preminition that Chelsea supporters are wankers any favours

haha jokes mate

And just to make sure that this thread is tied together with an awesome announcement, here is a link to Jon's forward thinking and stepping it up again!

https://newschoolers.com/web/forums/readthread/thread_id/351858/

i dont feel what your saying at all!!!! how can you qualify whos the best skier?!? thats like saying van gogh is better than manet.  the beauty of sports like skiing, boarding, surfing, skating, etc is that their anti competition physical activities were the point is just to be outside with your homeys having as much fun as you can.  those who are determined to make a living (not an extravagant one) at it in most cases will do just that with or with out the olympics. and jon olsson is a rad skiier but i couldnt give a fuck about his lambo and think that shit is tacky! whatever there a market for it all but ill continue to support the skiers and film companys with the same mentality.

um that's rediculous. for the last decade the wct has showed kelly slater to be indisputably the best surfer in the world.

you're right about the ethos of these sports but an organised comp scene won't make skiing less fun, it will just allow more pros to make a living off it...

compared to freeskiing, there are about 20 times more surfers making a living off surfing and that can't be a bad thing can it?

a shame to see this thread un-stickied, just because jons has become a sticky.  some of the discussion thats been had here needs more exposure...i mean look what its done alone over the past couple of days alone. this is our young sport at its grass roots, and grass rotts need to be harbored

i see what your saying, but were gonna have to agree to disagree. i still think that saying kelly slater is the best surfer in the world is an illusion (obviously hes immensely talented.)   like i said art has no value!, and to me these guys are artist. but yeah if more kids are able to make a living of skiing as a result of a better comp circuit, it should be done, its really to bad it has to be that way. AND special crazy props to skiers makin it happen w/o comps, they do exist.  

Haha, well I still don't agree with the idea but I don't have the time now stamina to jump seriously into the discussion. I probably would have been better off not saying anything at all. So, I'm sorry.

I got time to talk footy though...and at least Chelsea fans don't rob their own players.

i totally and completely disagree. I feel like one a world tour is established, then skiing goes down the same competitive, universal track of so many other pro sports. there wont be creativity in comps, there wont be the freedom that skiing offers to express ones self, and finally it will make skiing less fun.

i agree with you on that. ultra lame.  booooooooo!

something just dawned on me....i forgot one of the most integral parts of this idea: the waiting period!

the other thing a world tour could do would be to stop this ridiculousness of competitions taking place in poor weather all the time. as there would be sufficient time in between events, a waiting period can be put into place, for example, the 10 day (im pretty sure) waiting period used by the WCT.  It seeks to make use of the best conditions possible within the events timeline.  Also, a la Mundaka 2005, if a mountain is lacking snow, an event can be postponed or cancelled...all of this is to support the brand of skiing, and the brand of the world tour. it portrays the sport in much more positive, more coordinated, talent harbouring light.

this is about progression and professionalism!