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Another Police Thread

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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
I know theres been a lot recently, but I had an interesting discussion with a friend the other day, and I hope to continue it out here. Any assholes on either sides of the argument: use the other threads, lets try to keep this one intelligent.

Heres the circumstance. We were watching worlds wildest police chases (no comment) and two officers go out to a car that was speeding at night. Two people inside. The driver gets out, so the first cop goes to talk to him and the second goes over to the passenger side. The passenger is reluctant to tell his name, so the cop asks him to step out of the car. The guy does so, but as the cop is searching him, the dude pulls a gun and holds it to the cops head. The first cop sees this, and backs up, drawing his own gun. The second officer suddenly makes a move, forcing the gun away from his own head and reaching for his own. The dudes gun goes off, missing the cop hes tussling with by inches. The man takes off and both cops open fire, but miss him. He's captured later, and he was a fleeing convict. End result - he got life.

Now, WWPC didnt give us many background elements (for example, why he was in jail the first time), but my friend immediately brought up the cry of bullshit. He claims that in numerous cases, if you fuck with a cop, you're going to get fucked back harder than say you would had the cop been instead an average Joe. He thought that this is unfair, and that the same crime exacted on a police officer rather than just a citizen will always net you a tougher than normal sentence. More so, its this inequality thats lending to police having superiority issues and over abusing their power.

Obviously, I have a different take than him. But I'm interested to hear what you have to say? Are police different than an average person in terms of a judge deciding a sentence? Should they be? Does this cause the disparity, or does the disparity cause something else? Should a guy get the same sentence if he shoots a everyday person verses a uniformed police officer trying to arrest him? Thoughts?
Oct 26 2007 6:54PM
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Hoodbum
Posts: 111 - Karma: 10
i think the sentence should be the same, whether it's an average joe or a cop.  The fact that the cop is directly connected to the system really fucks him though.
Oct 26 2007 7:15PM
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MaxSteeze
Posts: 60 - Karma: 18
I think that it is right that laws regarding cops be harsher. No matter what your experiences be with cops and your personal veiws on them they are doing their job, which is a duty to the community that can in certain cases indanger themselves. They are in a confrontational authority position so if there weren't stricter laws then I believe there would be much greater violence towards the police, which would eventually cause great civil unrest.
Oct 26 2007 7:38PM
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doublexl
Posts: 8407 - Karma: 27
you have a good point, but a person is a person. whether it be a cop or a bum. i think it should be the same sentence either way.
Oct 26 2007 8:59PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014

JUDGES ARE HARSHER WHEN CRIMES ARE COMMITTED AGAINST COPS BECAUSE THEY ARE A PART OF THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM.  jUDGES FEEL THAT BECAUSE YOU FUCKED WITH A COP YOU ARE REALLY NOT SAFE TO BE ON THE STREETS, BECAUSE IF U FUCK WITH A COP THEN YOU'LL HAVE NO PROBLEM DOING THE SAME THING TO AN AVERAGE CITIZEN.  btw FUCK THA POLICE

Oct 27 2007 2:54AM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
You just rephrased what I said, I'm interested if you think that this practice is right or not.
Oct 27 2007 2:55AM
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BULLSEMEN
Posts: 1289 - Karma: 16
HI my friends call my Dr. Loud Mouth beacause i yell alot. so please dont ever make your self in the postion where you might be named "Dr. Loud Mouth'

please just stay calm take a deep breath and let it out slowly. ok are we feeling better now
Oct 27 2007 2:58AM
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Ski311
Posts: 595 - Karma: 8
"Obviously, I have a different take than him. But I'm interested to hear what you have to say? 1. Are police different than an average person in terms of a judge deciding a sentence? 2. Should they be? 3. Does this cause the disparity, or does the disparity cause something else? 4. Should a guy get the same sentence if he shoots a everyday person verses a uniformed police officer trying to arrest him? 5. Thoughts?"


1. Too broad of a topic for a short general answer. In the above case, yes, the cop is different because he is doing his job in this situation. A good time to say that cops get treated differently is when cops pull over other cops for speeding and let them go, or they are not pursuing anyone and flying down the highway at 15mph over.

2. Depends on the situation

3. Depends on if your opinion.

4. The cop is an everyday person doing his job.

5. Why put up a purely situational thread where most opinions will be swayed?
Oct 27 2007 3:02AM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
 IM NOT FUCKING YELLIING!!!!  IM JUST SOBER AND IT SUCKS
Oct 27 2007 3:13AM
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MADmidwest
Posts: 1278 - Karma: 15
It doesn't matter what the law says. Even if crimes against average people and cops were treated as equal offenses the guy that assaults a cop is getting a lot more time since the cop is part of the system and his buddies are gonna do everything to put that guy in jail for way too long
Oct 27 2007 9:03AM
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UNREAL
Posts: 3989 - Karma: 23
LOUD NOISES
Oct 27 2007 9:44AM
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SkierX
Posts: 16253 - Karma: 538
The way I see it is not so much the fact that a police officers life is "valued" more than another citizens, it's the blatent disregard for the law being displayed by someone willing to do something so bold as to attempt or succeed at murdering a police officer.

If someone is willing to kill a law enforcement official, there is no question they would be willing to kill an average citizen.
Oct 27 2007 11:14AM
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2+2=5
Posts: 3676 - Karma: 18
police is different than a normal citizen thats why they are called law enforcement. they are closer to the law than average Joe's, and if you mess directly with the law, you pay a higher price. its just like purgery, you can lie to any person on the street, but if you lie when you testify in court and you're sworn in, you're messing directly with the law and you pay a higher price.
Oct 27 2007 11:29AM
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11954 - Karma: 12,298
I have a question and figure I should bump this thread instead of making a new one. On my drive home, being the irresponsible adolescent driver I am, passed a cop at 45 in a 25. He/she was parked and most likely shooting radar. After I passed the cop I booked it home. As im driving up the final road to my house I see the cop pull onto my road (about 1000 yards away). I pull into my garage and close the door before the cop can see where I went (im fucking james bond) but when I passed the cop he/she clearly saw what my car looks like. My question, if a cop catches you speeding but doesnt catch up to you in time to pull you over, can they pull you over the next time they see you and give a ticket?
Mar 24 2011 11:35AM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
I wouldn't worry about it.

Unless you live in a town of 300 people, and 10 cars, odds are the cop won't remember you, and even if they do, might not care. I would however use great caution when driving, because if the same cop does see you again and remembers, and you're speeding again...odds are they will go after you, and you will get the ticket. Don't display reckless driving to the same cop more than once.


And by the way, sweet james bond moves. Would have been more badass if it was like, a garage camouflaged as a cave or something, but it'll do.
Mar 24 2011 11:40AM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Dude, you successfully ran from the cops.
Mar 24 2011 11:43AM
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Bar_Down
Posts: 5896 - Karma: 395
the only way i can see you getting a ticket for that shit is if the cop actually took down your license plate number or something. other than that, all he can say is "i saw a blue toyota camry speeding, 2 days later i saw a blue toyota camry so i gave him the ticket" and ya i dont think that ones gonna hold up in court
Mar 24 2011 11:46AM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
ummmm...speeding alone is a reason to give a ticket, and it would hold up in court.


Now if he got pulled over for no reason at all, and given a ticket...then yea, you're right
Mar 24 2011 11:48AM
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11954 - Karma: 12,298
are you saying if I got pulled over, say, later today even though I was going the speed limit and the cop was like "I saw you speeding earlier" that wouldnt hold up?
Mar 24 2011 11:50AM
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Bar_Down
Posts: 5896 - Karma: 395
yo, the guy is saying the cop saw him speeding, but didnt successfully pull him over and give him a ticket. now, hes wondering if the cop can give him the ticket for THAT time next time he sees him. im assuming he meant if the cop sees him while he is driving legally this time. im simply trying to explain to him that if the cop sees him again, he cant give him a ticket for that last time cus he has no way of proving it was actually him. obviously if he's speeding again then ya, he'll get a ticket, im not a fuckin retard lol
Mar 24 2011 11:51AM
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BenWhit
Posts: 4654 - Karma: 3,256
Any criminal can pull a gun on an average joe, but it takes a sick, fucked up criminal to pull a gun on a police officer.

that being said, should that change the sentence? i don't really know. from one side of the spectrum, i completely agree with putting the guy away for life. he's obviously a dangerous individual, threatening the lives of police officers and citizens alike.
Mar 24 2011 11:56AM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
from what I understand, right. You should be good.


My bad, bar down. I thought you meant like...the cop just sees any random blue camry speeding so he pulls that random car over.
Mar 24 2011 11:58AM
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11954 - Karma: 12,298
Thanks guys for the responses. I just needed to know cause i cant afford a ticket right now:)
Mar 24 2011 12:00PM
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Bar_Down
Posts: 5896 - Karma: 395
tru tru, its all good
Mar 24 2011 12:01PM
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Chokolite
Posts: 1050 - Karma: 23
I second this. I feel that, objectively, the life of a policeman is no more important than an average joe. That being said, I do feel that crimes against police officers garner more strict punishment, and they should be because of aforementioned reasons. In addition to those however, I also feel that the police are held at a little bit of a sacred position in our society, and while it may be unfair, thats just how it is. You don't fuck with a policeman.
People get shot everyday. Guns come out, people make stupid moves, but I feel like most shootings are related to altercations, robbery, and drugs. The fact that a policeman, who puts his life at risk everyday for the betterment of society, was shot at for no reason while performing his job, seems a little different. Now no one got hurt, and life does seem a little strict, but it was the judges decision, and I don't think that someone who would so readily shoot a police officer over a speeding ticket deserves much leniency.
Mar 24 2011 12:04PM
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gordie.
Posts: 2014 - Karma: 84
as long as he didn't get the license plate, then there's no sweat. and if he/she DID get the license plate, then a cop would most likely have already home to his door knocking. Did he even say in his original story whether or not the cop put on lights and siren?


And to Rowen... Cops should elevate the punishment for crimes perpetrated upon them. They're already trusted to be elevated citizens; above the rest of us if you will, and should therefore have that privilege throughout every facet of their work.
Mar 24 2011 12:14PM
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H8CH
Posts: 2709 - Karma: 218

Ok - i've not read through the replies in this thread but here is my take, and it's very simple.

Im British, but live in America, and my view on the American Police forces is simply this...

I wouldn't do it for all the money in the world. American gun laws are such that if I was a police officer simply pulling someone over for speeding etc - I know that there is a very high probability that the car i have pulled over has a firearm in it, and a person capable of using it against me.

These guys are not paid much really, and this is their job - i.e. this is what they do to pay their bills, try and achieve something in life - they didn't have to do it, but they decided it seemed like a good career option, fair enough....  they do it to look after their families - yes, families - another factor to be dialled in to my previous paragraph.

Now im sure there is some part of their drive to be a police officer that is based around making the world they live in a safer place, but I personally think mostly, it's a job.

How many people can say that there job is essentially like playing russian roulette everyday? These guys can....  and as much hate as they get, and yep some are dicks (there are dicks in every walk of life, not just police forces).. I always ask myself what it must be like to be just like those guys, walking towards that car and just hoping it will be routine....  you might have just come on shift, be tired etc... just wanting to go home and chill.... and then boom, this shit kicks off and you nearly get murdered doing what you have to do to get a pay check.....   

As i said, fuck that - i wouldn't do it..... 

Mar 24 2011 12:17PM
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H8CH
Posts: 2709 - Karma: 218
and yeah double post - but yes, they are absolutely right to have harsher sentancing and punishment for this sort of shit...   given what i said above....  ultimately, those guys are out there to try and make your lives safer everyday and take twats off the street who go around shooting fuckers and robbing shit - go get jobs you worthless fucks.
Mar 24 2011 12:20PM
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comeatmebro
Posts: 10720 - Karma: 66
i'm on the fence with the issue...

i don't have time to type right now, but maybe later.

leaning towards the side of harsher punishment on acts of violence towards cops, however, it can also be bullshit. fuck shooting a police dog is the same as shooting a police officer...
Mar 24 2011 12:22PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
HAHA I KNOW THAT I WAS AT WORK WHEN I POSTED THIS...AND PLEASE DISREGARD THE LAST LITTLE STRING OF WORDS.


EVERYTHING ELSE IS RIGHT THOUGH.
Mar 24 2011 12:23PM
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11954 - Karma: 12,298
no he didnt but as soon as i past him he pulled out. So I figured, like most cops do, he was planning on pulling up behind me and then put on his lights.
Mar 24 2011 12:25PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
OH AND COPS CAN PULL YOU OVER FOR ANYTHING AND GIVE YOU A TICKET. ROLLING THROUGH A STOP, RUNNING A RED LIGHT, SPEEDING, NO BLINKER ETC.

IF THE COP SEES YOU AGAIN AND FEELS LIKE GIVING YOU A TICKET YOURE FUCKED
Mar 24 2011 12:25PM
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H8CH
Posts: 2709 - Karma: 218

I think your views on this will be split between the "14 yr old ' Fuck da police' mob who still live at home with parents in the suburbs" and those who are older (24/25+) and have some actual responsibilties, work for their shit and try and do things right.....  your respect for the police does actually grow as you get older and realize what a shitty job it actually is.....  

Mar 24 2011 12:26PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142

First, you can't just say this, you need some evidence to back it up. When imposing a sentence judges have to justify their decision based on a) previous similar cases, and b) sentencing guidelines passed by a legislature. Whether the victim was a police officer appears in neither of those. Also, sentencing decisions are subject to and often are appealed - if the justification doesn't bear out the sentence it will be overturned. So, I think he's full of crap.

Second, I am all for people getting fucked over if they commit an assault against a cop. Some cops are assholes, some cops are awesome people who do their job very well. When I worked as a bouncer I dealt with them multiple times a week and encountered both kinds. Regardless of whether a cop is an ass or a good du, though, he is someone who has volunteered to possibly get shot (as in this case) in defense of the public. People who put cops in danger SHOULD get the business as a consequence. Ie: that dude who attacked a cop with a chain and a giant padlock and got shot  about 17 times (some in the back) a couple years ago in Vantown - some said "overkill", I said "good fucking riddance".

Mar 24 2011 1:03PM
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SmoKinSkier
Posts: 5501 - Karma: 20
I fully understand why it is written in to law that way, which I would agree with. Cops are a very useful and necessary public service(anyone that says otherwise will be ignored) at a danger to themselves.

I pose this question though. Do you think by making the penalty stiffer it actually deters violence against them? I just feel if you are on that level the stiffer sentence for committing that act is not going to stop you. I would never shoot a cop but it has nothing to do with the consequences it is just not who I am. Hope that makes sense
Mar 24 2011 1:32PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
IT MAKES SENSE. BUT JUST LIKE I THINK A MAN WHO BEATS A WOMAN SHOULD GO AWAY FOR LONGER THAN IF HE BEATS A MAN, I THINK A CITIZEN WHO ASSAULTS A COP SHOULD GO AWAY FOR LONGER THAN IF HE ASSAULTS ANOTHER CITIZEN. JUST AN OPINION THOUGH.


IN MY EXPERIENCE WITH COPS, THEY HAVE BEEN VERY UNDERSTANDING. I HAVE BEEN FIGHTING, AND BEEN TACKLED BY A COP. ONCE THE COP IS IN THE SITUATION, ITS GAME OVER AND I WENT OUT OF MY WAY TO ACCOMODATE THE COP I.E. IMMEDIATLY HANDS OUT STARFISHING THE GROUND, TELLING THE COP "ITS OVER, WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO DO?" IT MAD THE EXPERIENCE BETTER. THE OTHER GUY, WAS STILL TRYING TO GO AFTER ME AND TRIED TO PUSH THE COP...HE GOT SLAMMED INTO THE GROUND AND A KNEE ON HIS NECK.
Mar 24 2011 1:38PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142

Why are you typing in all caps? That's annoying.

Mar 24 2011 1:40PM
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Proletariat.
Posts: 1797 - Karma: 45
In my province the RCMP need to go due to them being incompetent morons and need to be replaced with a Provincial Police Force (I have never been in trouble with the law).
Mar 24 2011 1:44PM
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squibble
Posts: 4569 - Karma: 104
its safer for the cops that way. the system is flawed, but it works for the most part
Mar 24 2011 1:45PM
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LordWang
Posts: 23 - Karma: 10
I think it should be the same but it cant be. in order for the majority of society to respect a cops authority judges have to impose more harsh punishments when a cop is threatened. for example, if your friendtries to stop you from doing something bad and you two fight its whatever. but if you fight a cop its resisting arrest, assault, etc.
Mar 24 2011 1:54PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
YOURE ANNOYING, AND MY WORK COMP USES CAPS FOR ITS PROGRAMS SO IT ONLY HAS CAPS...SO GET USED TO THE LOUD NOISES EMANATING FROM MY POSTS!!!!
Mar 24 2011 1:55PM
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WillStart
Posts: 3955 - Karma: 3,192
well said.

Mar 24 2011 2:01PM
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shaggy.
Posts: 433 - Karma: 299
deepthroat
Mar 24 2011 3:05PM
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-Mugatu
Posts: 2579 - Karma: 84
sentencing is def. harsher if the "crime" is done onto a cop than an average joe. Pretty sure (not positive) they actually have laws that are like "bla bla bla involving a police officer" thus making it a separate crime all together technically. Didnt do any research on this, just from what I kinda remember from gr. 12 law haha. Someone please feel free to correct me if Im wrong.
Mar 24 2011 3:29PM
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soulskier
Posts: 17806 - Karma: 3,841
^you're correct, michigan at least
Mar 24 2011 3:52PM
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WillStart
Posts: 3955 - Karma: 3,192
to some degree, yes. obviously if someone is crazy enough to shoot a cop, theyre going to shoot a cop almost no matter what. but if an average person tries to break up a fight, they might get fucked up but a cop would be likely to get a lot more respect in that type of situation.
Mar 24 2011 3:56PM
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derpina
Posts: 2186 - Karma: 55
Anyone who works for the government is going to have the protection of the government... even postal workers.

I work at *store name here* and get 40% off everything. Why can't the average joe get 40% off everything? Because I'm dedicating my time, energy, and life to the store. I know that's a much lesser analogy but it works the same way.

That being said, a cop is putting their life on the line everyday to stop crime and protect others. There has to be some sort of extra punishment for threatening a cop or there would be 2x as many attacks on cops as usual.

I disagree with your friend.
Mar 24 2011 4:10PM
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ImNotARacist
Posts: 5136 - Karma: -1,030
I have a very biased and very strong opinion towards this. I shall share later.
Mar 24 2011 4:17PM
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11954 - Karma: 12,298
jesus, I resparked an epic 4 year old debate...
Mar 24 2011 4:29PM
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Broseph_Stalin
Posts: 3745 - Karma: 178
I LIKE THIS GUY
Mar 24 2011 4:31PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,686
Attacks on Police should be meet with stiffer sentencing. Attacking the police is attacking the system that we set up in place to protect us. I doubt anyone would be asking this question if a harsh penalty was rewarded to some one who tried to burn down the fire station.
Mar 24 2011 4:35PM
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