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Will Ski Boots Ever Change!!???!?

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gbalkman
Posts: 605 - Karma: 4,171
[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t75" coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" o:preferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f"> <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"/> <v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"/> <v:path o:extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect"/> <o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t"/> <v:shape id="_x0000_i1025" type="#_x0000_t75" style='width:116.4pt; height:132.6pt'> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\GEOFFB~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_image001.gif" o:title="g-boot-quicktime"/> <![endif][if !vml][if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t75" coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" o:preferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f"> <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"/> <v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"/> <v:path o:extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect"/> <o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t"/> <v:shape id="_x0000_i1025" type="#_x0000_t75" style='width:292.8pt; height:333.6pt'> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\GEOFFB~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_image001.gif" o:title="g-boot-quicktime"/> <![endif][if !vml]Has anyone else noticed that basic ski boot designs haven't really changed much over the last 30 years? Most of us are still riding in a hard plastic shell with 4 buckles. there are a few variations like SPK's and the raichle/ripcurl's, but for the most part-- ski boots just aren't really changing. Look at how far snowboarding boots have come in just 10 yrs., or for those who still keep up with the rollerblading scene, boot design-- functionality, looks, and comfort-- has changed a lot. I know the huge debate is that skiers need a super stiff boot that can tighten down well, ad soft boots compromise the stiffness and functionality. But there's got to be a way to keep progressing boots toward a more comfortable, warmer and sicker looking design. 

Boot
Idea's that I've thought of that would make a sick boot-- semi-flexi middle section of the sole, foe walking, that won't affect skiing ability, layers of leather over the plastic shell to make it look more like a snowboard boot or skate shoe...  Does anyone agree with me about this, or do you all love that 4-buckle plastic shell?
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Oct 18 2007 5:09PM
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gbalkman
Posts: 605 - Karma: 4,171
whoah, i don't know what happened to that post-- i guess it was from trying to load different pictures. Sorry
Oct 18 2007 5:10PM
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Silence
Posts: 16030 - Karma: 150
wow that formatting was really fucked up

but i think due to the way skiing is, it will be very difficult to get away from hard boots - control is vital from boot to ski
Oct 18 2007 5:11PM
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gbalkman
Posts: 605 - Karma: 4,171
Here's a re-post:



Has anyone else noticed that basic ski boot designs haven't really changed much over the last 30 years? Most of us are still riding in a hard plastic shell with 4 buckles. there are a few variations like SPK's and the raichle/ripcurl's, but for the most part-- ski boots just aren't really changing. Look at how far snowboarding boots have come in just 10 yrs., or for those who still keep up with the rollerblading scene, boot design-- functionality, looks, and comfort-- has changed a lot. I know the huge debate is that skiers need a super stiff boot that can tighten down well, ad soft boots compromise the stiffness and functionality. But there's got to be a way to keep progressing boots toward a more comfortable, warmer and sicker looking design. 

Boot
Idea's that I've thought of that would make a sick boot-- semi-flexi middle section of the sole, foe walking, that won't affect skiing ability, layers of leather over the plastic shell to make it look more like a snowboard boot or skate shoe...  Does anyone agree with me about this, or do you all love that 4-buckle plastic shell?


Oct 18 2007 5:12PM
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scientist
Posts: 6920 - Karma: 348
yea man Ive though alto about this. Liek ankle support on the side, with p-lastic, but then a softer materiel on the tounge/back for flex/comfort. obviously, it would be a race boot or anything, but i think it might be a cool thing to try.
Oct 18 2007 5:18PM
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JoshBishop
Posts: 464 - Karma: 748
Rather than have a Velcro power strap -- why not incorporate the ratchet system like a snowboard binding? Check the IL MORO by Dalbello for an example


Oct 18 2007 5:29PM
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Alkyy
Posts: 2839 - Karma: 149
well no pint in changing a good thing.  Id rather have the ridged plastic then wearing leather shoes
Oct 18 2007 5:40PM
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Triple_Strum
Posts: 6384 - Karma: 953

I know you really aren't a designer, or thinking big picture, but with each suggestion you have to look at the ramifications and question why designs haven't changed drastically.

Ski boots will never get away from have a rigid structure.  Because of how boots interface with skis and the angles and design involved with skis, boots must be stiff in order to  A) perform well and  B) prevent injury.  When considering performance, you have to consider that having a softer boot, or a multi-piece shell design would require much more work on the part of the skier for far less precision.  But most importantly ski boots are designed for safety.  To make them softer with more flexible materials would means much more pressure and force/stress on ligaments and tendons in the ankle.  Small bails would result in tearing all sorts of ligaments and could also result in more broken bones.  You aren't comparing apples to apples when you analyze snowboard boots; the snowboard binding system secures the foot, not the boot, whereas in skiing, the opposite could not be possible with front to back movement whereas snowboard movement is lateral.  

Also, your suggestion for leather or other coverings like snowboard  boots would not work for a ski boot.  Ski edges are sharp and pulling a mute too hard across or bailing and having your ski crash into your boot at high speeds would put huge gashes in it, resulting in damaged boots that people wouldn't want to wear within 5 days on the hill.  The outer plastic is for a reason.

Anyway, I don't want you to stop thinking of ideas, but be aware of perhaps why boots haven't evolved significantly. 

Oct 18 2007 5:45PM
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R.Fahey
Posts: 8602 - Karma: 539
Dude... they wouldn't be responsive enough, or save.  There are reasons they haven't changed.  I think a soft shell boot like that would be similar to trying to ski down a hill with your boots undone.  Not responsive, and too much give causing injuries. 
Oct 18 2007 5:47PM
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TheStamos
Posts: 9311 - Karma: 910
 The best boot design is over 20 years old.  I will never use a 4 buckle boot ever again.
Oct 18 2007 5:54PM
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gbalkman
Posts: 605 - Karma: 4,171
Ya, i know there are a lot of mechanical aspects that  i don't have enough knowledge on. I just want someone who does have that knowledge to try and come up with new innovations. but i guess you're right about the edges ripping up the leather.
Oct 18 2007 6:00PM
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TechnoPotamus
Posts: 11626 - Karma: 3,522
bro you should put your ideas into action....if you patented an idea like that and it was successful....

all i can say is  $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ money in the bank son.
Oct 18 2007 6:24PM
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Skipig25
Posts: 10729 - Karma: 256
I use kryptons, the tongue is still one of the illest things ever
Oct 18 2007 6:30PM
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Silence
Posts: 16030 - Karma: 150
^ intuition liner yeah?
Oct 18 2007 6:32PM
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salomonskiier12
Posts: 2862 - Karma: 19

stiff/hard boots are a must or else there will be more injuries

Oct 18 2007 6:51PM
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ShreddingthaGnar
Posts: 454 - Karma: 18
Raichle Flexon + Dalbello Krypton 3 piece shell for life.
Oct 18 2007 7:08PM
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caucasian_chad
Posts: 4078 - Karma: 3,625
Why should ski boot ever change?
Oct 18 2007 7:16PM
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bobs
Posts: 4801 - Karma: 868
I don't want leather  placed over my boots.  It is a waste.  My blades have it and they just wear out.  Snow and leather get wet and make a boot heavier.  Companies already noticed kids are swayed by "cool."  Thats why half the park boots are white.  Snowboards have soft boots because of the different torques their  bindings create.  I'm sure liners will become more comfortable and the 3 buckle rampage design may catch on.  Also boots like the il moro or old rossi softs that have soft upper parts have potential to work with shinbang and comfort, but i don't see too much room for extreme change.
Oct 18 2007 7:53PM
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alexL
Posts: 512 - Karma: 28
i guess ski boots are a balance between comfort and performance, if you can make a boot that does both rele well ill sure buy one
Oct 18 2007 7:56PM
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Pipe_Munky
Posts: 10888 - Karma: 2,184
atomic already has a boot that flexes through the forefoot. it's called the Hawx


FYI ski boot molds are roughly $100,000 to make. that is per size. so if you've got a ton of money or a financial backer that is willing to invest nearly $1,000,000 in a very small portion of the ski market, by all means go for it
Oct 18 2007 8:00PM
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bigwhite.steeze
Posts: 8227 - Karma: 1,030
Click for larger image

rear entry 4 lyfe!
Oct 18 2007 8:04PM
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toominator
Posts: 4792 - Karma: 120
rossi made a soft boot a coupla seasons ago.. not sure if you can still get them, but they were aimed at recreational skiers just cruising

Click for larger image
Oct 18 2007 8:07PM
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bobs
Posts: 4801 - Karma: 868
they made non laceup ones designed for park. I have a 4 buckle pair with the soft top
Oct 18 2007 8:09PM
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bigwhite.steeze
Posts: 8227 - Karma: 1,030
yeah those boots actually really sucked...i had to use em for a few weeks and they were terrible, amazingly soft and no support if you dont just cruise on groomers...
Oct 18 2007 8:18PM
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ESAND
Posts: 1607 - Karma: 744
Click for larger image

Soft leather ski boots? are you kidding me.

Been there, done that, they sucked and the industry changed to stiff 4 buckle boots. A change for the better
Oct 18 2007 8:26PM
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dbchili
Posts: 2555 - Karma: 1,657

i didnt buy the flexon hype until i tried a pair on. I have havent even ridden mine yet and ive allready noticed a difference in my skiing theyre that good! figure that out

Oct 18 2007 8:39PM
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JayDope
Posts: 6842 - Karma: 408
how can u already notice a difference in ur skiing, when u just said u haven;t even ridden them yet?!
Oct 18 2007 8:47PM
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KRAMPUSNTROLLZ
Posts: 2715 - Karma: 355
That boot you have the picture of looks really ugly. I think we should make the inside of boots more comfortable but most boots look okay. Like Salomon's boot that the pros were riding on last year looked so cool.
Oct 18 2007 8:47PM
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hemlockjibber8
Posts: 5977 - Karma: 3,543
I don't know if this has been mentioned yet but...

Atomic Hawk is a new boot out this year and it has a flex point under the ball of the foot. It flexes a minute amount and it is so it is easier to get over your toes. It relies on the elasticity in the heel piece of the binding to work. I don't think you would notice it walking. No real performance boot will have this. You need the boot to be rigid. You only see designs that affect outside of skiing comfort on gaper boots (soft boot [discontinued]) because it doesnt put performance first.

SPK pro has leather on it to make it look like a snowboard boot. We will see how those look at the end of the year from all the edge grinding.


Boot will not change so dramatically. They have been making boots for 100 years. They have been making snowboard boots for 30 years. Of course snowboard boots are going to change more in the recent past. However, I don't think they have changed as much as you think. Leather, soft, with laces? Still the same.

There are tons of things to make a boot comfortable. Complete customization from the shell to the liner to the foot bed. wireless boot heaters. the ability to step in without using your hands or even looking at the boot (try doing that in a snowboard boot that fits!)
Oct 18 2007 10:16PM
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Edward.
Posts: 9366 - Karma: 445
i would feel so unsafe with boots like that. you have no idea how many times the plastic on the boot saves your foot from hard impacts. i dont even know either, but probably a lot
Oct 18 2007 10:18PM
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Klick_2_klaim
Posts: 3396 - Karma: 25
If it gets done properly I dont really care... a boot that fits is a boot that fits.
I have spk's, i think its neet that I only have 2 buckles... cause Im lazy and theyre easy to get on.
Ive held the spk pros this year... and that leather... for steez? is heavy as shit.
Im sure its a composite leather and wont hold alot of water... but that is something to think about.
would you compromise wieght for some boot looks?
Oct 18 2007 10:22PM
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BMskier
Posts: 3363 - Karma: 365
get over the hard boots. true skiers love their boots and its the first thing i buy and the most important to maintain control and not cause injury.
Oct 18 2007 10:24PM
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Hairspray
Posts: 298 - Karma: 14
Yea, the soft shell would be too flexible and the response time would be be slower, and your control would suck
Oct 18 2007 10:56PM
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paulbunyan
Posts: 3110 - Karma: 90
YOUR GAY FOR MAKING THIS THREAD I LOVE SKI BOOTS THE WAY THEY AND I DONT WANT TO FOLLOW SNOWBOARDERS THERE GAY
Oct 18 2007 11:46PM
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404404
Posts: 11358 - Karma: 21,034
full tilt
Oct 19 2007 11:04AM
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dave44
Posts: 11052 - Karma: 113
Yeah.
Oct 19 2007 11:11AM
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dirtpie
Posts: 155 - Karma: 10
I still say rear entry are the best boots.  No need for more than one or two buckles.
Oct 19 2007 11:20AM
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SkierX
Posts: 16253 - Karma: 538
There's a reason why the Rossi Softs are only recommended for groomers or situations where a lot of ski control isn't needed.
Oct 19 2007 11:38AM
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tomtheelf
Posts: 65 - Karma: 14
i get your point to the fact the ski boots never change but look at the full tilts boots that are out
Oct 19 2007 11:55AM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
ski boots have changed a lot.  skiing is just way way older than snowboarding is.
Oct 19 2007 12:07PM
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ESAND
Posts: 1607 - Karma: 744
yes just more examples of ski boots NOT changing
Oct 19 2007 4:38PM
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Itsbackfliptime
Posts: 18901 - Karma: 75
I just wish there was rubber on the bottom of them. Its fucking dangerous walking on slippery surfaces in ski boots. I've eaten shit so many times.
Oct 19 2007 5:03PM
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skithesprings
Posts: 9086 - Karma: 1,349
same here. three buckles is da shit
Oct 19 2007 5:13PM
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grams.
Posts: 7406 - Karma: 186
kevlar? (sp?)
Oct 19 2007 6:11PM
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hemlockjibber8
Posts: 5977 - Karma: 3,543
bring your boots into a good shop. they will be able to grind the sole down and replace it with a vibram (rubber) sole. you may have to bring in the sole for them. Basically a replacement workboot sole.

Take a look at the Helly Hansen ad out this year with all the atheltesbeside each other. Eric Hjorleifson is on the left. He has tecnica race pros that have a vibram sole put on them. The boots have also been cut and given an extra tongue so they will be more like the the SPKs and easy to get on. Crazy hybrids.
Oct 19 2007 6:55PM
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MadSteezin
Posts: 4572 - Karma: 936
Haven't you noticed that theres a reason for everything? The main reason is because the design works and then there is the amount of money it would take to think up a whole new design. Just look at the Razor Genesys model, Razor keeps releasing it but with new colors. But there isn't much money in the rollerblading industry so I guess thats the main reason it really hasn't changed.
Oct 19 2007 7:03PM
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anton...
Posts: 119 - Karma: 10
thats what i got...

very very sturdy and very comfy (considering its a ski boot)...

but realistically the design is not all that drastically different from any other...
Oct 19 2007 8:09PM
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860
Posts: 2930 - Karma: 166
I dont think you could ever make a soft leather boot like a snowboard boot stiff enough for skis. You'd be breaking ankles left and right. The only way I could see that working is if you changed bindings to add support like snowboards do but that would be a pain and a shitty idea
Oct 19 2007 8:29PM
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Literature
Posts: 13673 - Karma: 3,085
I am just sick of the lack of boots that have a solid strap that goes right between where the foot and the ankle meet. If that was locked down, that upper and lower could be looser with the same amount of control, and thus the boot would be more comfortable.

I really need to check out some Full Tilts.
Oct 20 2007 3:19AM
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SteezonSkis
Posts: 174 - Karma: 11
ayo ski boots are supposed to be stiff as fuck all you fuckin peeps that think ptherwise are parkrat bitchs
Oct 20 2007 3:47AM
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paulbunyan
Posts: 3110 - Karma: 90
or they want to be like snowboarders ski boots are perfect as they  are
Oct 20 2007 4:38PM
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