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time travel/speed of light

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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,010
ok - here is a theory some dude said (got it off the net, it's not by a famous scientist, but it'll make you think.

the center of the universe. all the galixies, matter and anti-matter are revolving around it. inside each galixy all the solar systems are revolving around the center of them. inside the solar system all the planets are revolving around the star (in our case - the sun). Earth itself is also rotating while revolving around the sun. with rotational volicity wouldn't it be possible (because we are dealing with an overall size that none of us can put into words) that we are currently travling faster than the speed of light? beacuse who is to say that 'time' as we know it is accurate? it's just a system that humans have adapted so we think we know what is going on in this world. I mean, what we do know for sure is that we are going forward in time, so we are 'traveling threw time'... your thoughts?

only thing about that that i have doubts about is the fact that if you are travling the speed of light than you appear motionless (how can you see movement if light is at a standstill?) and if you go faster than the speed of light than theoreticly you can travel back in time (time travel) because you are going in the opposite direction of light so you actually do things before you see them... or something like that... it's all messed up dude.

I think there's gotta be more to 'time', space, and the universe (well, we know that there's more to the universe) than we even think we know. I mean, seriously - what is at the edge of the universe? it's gotta end somewhere... so what the hell is past the edge? and what is the edge? i'm not even going to get into what is going to happen to the universe (the questions are - will it reach a certin point than stay the same size forever - because currently they have evidence that the universe is still expanding. will it get to a certine size than slowly colapse on itself creating another 'big bang' thus start all over? will it reach a certine size than the gravity of the universe won't be strong enough for the size of the universe and there will be complete chaos because there is nothing holding anything togeather anymore resulting in... i can't finish that sentince, i don't think anyone can - but those questions can not be answered - but they can be pondered... think about it.. it's fucked up shit)


Darryl Hunt

'I think an animal orgy would be fun' Holly over the phone after talking about manipulating a bunch of stuffed animals into a big orgy.
Apr 19 2003 12:41AM
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godsDun
Posts: 1261 - Karma: 29
ow. my face.
Its not winning or loosing that matters, its making fun of the fat kid that comes in last.
You can call me Bob........M.D.
Apr 19 2003 1:17AM
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WIfreeskier
Posts: 8125 - Karma: 65
holy shit man i'm so stoned right now and i just read that and that is so fascinating. whoa. really, how damn big is the universe. We'll never know, that would take a long time to figure out. i'm hungry.
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Apr 19 2003 1:17AM
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JayDC7
Posts: 1620 - Karma: 10
it hurts to think about, i just keep on going around in circles and never make any sense..
Apr 19 2003 1:50AM
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hUcKbUnNi3
Posts: 1923 - Karma: 33
wow, ive actually thought about this b4 and isnt it wierd? Where does space end if it keeps expanding? And how do we kno....omg...like...how do we kno ....ugh...i dont get it

*Where does space go?, cuz space is...space...so where does space expand to...more space?*
Apr 19 2003 2:08AM
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z_boarder914
Posts: 1668 - Karma: 10
I have an addition to that theory. about the end of space.

Ok, if we jump back millions of eyars to the supposed Big Bang. At the split moment that it happened everything exploded outwards. thus the edge of space is the outmost point of all the enrgy in this explosion. Head hurting, yeah mine to. Space is within these boundaries and all our galaxys are withing space etc.

Now if we picture this exploasion like a ball we can see it expanding. It will have to eventualy implode because of the laws of physics (as we understand it on Earth).

Lets make it a bit easier. If you take an empty coke can and put an explosive in it, seal it and then drop it in a tub of water when the explosive exploades (ref: the Big Bang) you can see all the can exploade and bubbles appear. Once the enrgy decipitates everything imploades towards the centre of the can again. Therefore by my theory the edge of space is the edge of the energy capable of exploding.

This energy is where the edge of space is and one day it will implode on itself and crush everything then reach a minimum point and the huge forces of opposite attraction will cause it to explode again in a vicious cycle.

whos to say that there has only ever been 1 Big Bang??

Although none of this is proveable it is my theory. Whats beyond the enrgylimits? i cant answer that and no one else can either.

ANOTHER addition to this is. If we could get a telescope powerful enough we could see the edge of space (i think) although all we would see is a big wall of fire either moving away or towards us.

Its a crazy fucked up place our universe.

Dunno if thats very understandable
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Apr 19 2003 11:10AM
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west
Posts: 5229 - Karma: 36
it makes some sense, but you seen to think the end of space would distinctly look like something if we could see it. this outer point (matter), if there truly is one, would be meet by anti-mater. this point would be no different then the rest of space to the human eye, or a telescope for that matter





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and if you got a glass jaw you better watch your mouth
Apr 19 2003 11:23AM
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z_boarder914
Posts: 1668 - Karma: 10
yeah, i confuse myself to. Your right though. I dont think the human race can physicaly understand something as vast and complicated as space
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Apr 19 2003 11:31AM
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theBOSS.
Posts: 4705 - Karma: 496
ok, I got this out of a book but still.

The universe is expanding outward at the speed of light. Got that? If it really is expanding outward at the speed of light, when you get towards the end of the universe, theoretically you would be seeing the big bang. As you get towards the end of the universe, you will be going back in time, not literally, but you will be seeing back in time. Near the end, all the light from the big bang will be there, and before that, the light from just after the big bang, and so on.

Also, to whoever said that the universe will eventually implode on itself, this is just one of many theories. The one that your thinking about is that eventually, the gravity from the universe will get so great that it will pull itself back in, and compress itself again. This is somewhat believabe, but I have another one. A theory came out a few years back about antimatter. It said that if there is such a thing, then the energy expanding the universe outwards will be met by the antimatter and the forces will balance, in this way the universe will keep expanding forever.
Apr 19 2003 11:47AM
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theBOSS.
Posts: 4705 - Karma: 496
Another thing to make your head hurt. We think of the universe as being a massive thing, almost endless in capacity. Well listen to this. One of the new major theories is that the smallest particles in an atom (which we may not even be able to detect yet) contains a universe. If this was true, then out universe would be an extremely tiny particle inside another universe, which would be a particle in another universe, and so on, continuing forever. While its kind of hard to believe, it is something to think about. There may be a universe for every atom in our universe, and out universe may be just one atom in another universe, which would be one atom in another and so on, forever. That would mean there would be an infinate number of universes, times the number of atoms in one universe. Makes ours seem so much more tiny them before, huh?
Apr 19 2003 11:53AM
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theBOSS.
Posts: 4705 - Karma: 496
there is a book called 'the whole shebang' that explains it all, read that and it will change everythng that you ever thought
Apr 19 2003 11:55AM
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Girays_Brother
Posts: 13973 - Karma: 1,635
too long cant read that much
Apr 19 2003 12:06PM
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killswitch
Posts: 684 - Karma: 111
as long as there are snowy mountains, i'm satisfied.
Apr 19 2003 12:25PM
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z_boarder914
Posts: 1668 - Karma: 10
Crus, yeah, the Men In Black theory. Theres 100s of theories. And the enarest galaxy to us is one which is 200 million light years away. so whenw e see it through a telescope we see it how it was 200 million light years ago. It may not even exist now. Freaky.
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Apr 19 2003 12:55PM
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andyrightcoast
Posts: 5220 - Karma: 18
I like the Men in Black theory, fits pretty well with most established fact. I wish I had something to add to this thread. Its a very good thread, started by DARRYL of all people, haha.




-Andy

I am God... Please feel free to take a number, I'll be right with you.

Apr 19 2003 12:58PM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,010
yea, they say that some (if not a lot) of the stars we see in the night sky arn't even there anymore.... they have long since burnt out.

and as I said in my first post - the imploding universe is just one of three theories about the fate of our universe. I kind of hope that that theory is right. Because if our universe does eventually colapse on itself creating yet another big bang to start things all over again than that shows that there is at least a little bit of structure in the universe. If the universe stays the same size or gets too big for itself and just splits apart than who is to say what the universe is and where it came from? Because yes, we think we know that the universe came from a gient explosion that sent matter, anti-matter, dust, energy, and the rest of the neat stuff in our universe out there... but if the universe doesn't go threw this cycle than what caused the Big Bang? If there is a god - is he that powerful to create such a thing or are his powers limited to earth?

here's another thing that just came to my mind... if/when the universe colapses on itself - maybe it will create a black hole (like when a star colapses... what would make the universe different? should be the same thing, just bigger) and with all the quajilians (sounds like a big word) of things in this universe maybe something can go into the black hole and not be crushed by the gravity and use it as a worm whole to a parallel universe? I'm just shooting off idea's here... are there more than one universe? if there can be this one than there can be other ones... but here's another question - if there is another universe(s) where is it? could it be possible that there is more past the edge of our universe? (like, we know that there are planets, stars, solar systems, galexies, and our universe... but who is say weather there is something bigger with many universe's rotating around it? ok, that's all i'm gonna write for now.

Darryl Hunt

'I think an animal orgy would be fun' Holly over the phone after talking about manipulating a bunch of stuffed animals into a big orgy.
Apr 19 2003 1:25PM
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z_boarder914
Posts: 1668 - Karma: 10
going back to my previous thing about the exploding and the wall of fire at the end. then linking that to Darryl's post above me (^).

If we do have a wall of 'fire' around us, couldnt then our univers be classed as a star in another universe? whos to say that there is another universe inside our sun for example and that si the edge of the energy that I was talking about? Like Darryl Im just shooting off ideas?

About the God thing. Personally I dont belive that at all. Im happy to accept that others do. However I feel that God and Religion is

a)An answer to an unanswerable question.
b)Or a symbol we put on something that we already know of, but dont understand (make sense)

and finally

c)It is the cause of everything bad in this world, thats off the topic I know but its just my thought.


dont mean to offende anyone by the way, just my thoughts.

And this post was just a little more food for thought
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Apr 19 2003 2:27PM
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z_boarder914
Posts: 1668 - Karma: 10
also, doy uo really think Andyrightcoast made this world?!?! (ref to his sig, oh nevermind.............)

I apologise for that now
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Apr 19 2003 2:29PM
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CTripper
Posts: 6520 - Karma: 20
woah, the end of the universe would be really weird. Has anyone thought of what would maybe be beyond it? like there's already blackholes within the universe, so it wouldn't be just a big black space.
-Chris Peck
Apr 19 2003 3:36PM
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Itsbackfliptime
Posts: 18901 - Karma: 75
kaboom. I just exploded.

My girlfriend told me to shove my skis up my ass
Apr 19 2003 3:54PM
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Itsbackfliptime
Posts: 18901 - Karma: 75
there is too much too handle with all this universe stuff. If the universe is going to implode and start over again then have I typed this already? Have I done everything before? This same thing made some scientist go crazy and kill himself.

My girlfriend told me to shove my skis up my ass
Apr 19 2003 3:56PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
the wierdest thing to think about is nothing. Like whats in the space between electrons and the core of an atom? nothing. so pretty much, when you sit down you arent really making contact with anything.... whoa.
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Apr 19 2003 4:04PM
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petek
Posts: 8762 - Karma: 12
first of all, not all stars orbit the center of a galaxy, because not all galaxies are spiral. Second, the speed with which they do travel around the center is so relatively small its negligable, which is why, when calculating the distance of stars from our planet, that factor doesnt come into affect.
And another point, is that speed is relative, so when a beam of light passes you, to it, you are the one going the speed of light.
Another thing, is you can manipulate the speed of light through a bose-einstein condensate, to a speed so low, that information can be stored in that beam. Light is more then a wave, it is a collection of photons, that slow down as they pass through matter, because of friction. All types of energy are actually not waves, but types of 'corpuscles', like photons and phonons.
There are also many theories of time. Some say that it is a radiation we cannot detect, that it is unlinear and can be bent, or that it is all just an illusion to keep happening at once. We have no clue whatsoever what time really is, because of that, we do not know how to manipulate it.


soon to be another shit-talker and donater of NS
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Apr 19 2003 5:02PM
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BeckaSki
Posts: 587 - Karma: 10
There is an edge to the universe. Astronomers have observed this thing called the cosmic microwave background, that is emitted from everything just inside the edge of the universe. They have some theories about how if the universe is expanding at an accelerating rate, the visible edge of the universe gets smaller, so we can see fewer things from further away.

What we see is dependent on how far away it is from us. With telescopes we have now, we can observe things from when the universe was very young. It is believed that the cosmic microwave background is about 380,000 older than the big bang. I'm not going to go into detail, but if you want to know more check out the online chapter about this stuff from my astronomy textbook.
Apr 19 2003 7:46PM
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petek
Posts: 8762 - Karma: 12
i dont believe in the big bang whatsoever. Its crap, there is no solid proof. Even red shift isnt proof, because the farther the distance between objects, the more interference it succumbs, and its frequency slows down, causing the light to appear red. I do however believe in the localized big bang
theoretical physics is my thing


soon to be another shit-talker and donater of NS
Proud member of the official NS Ogre team, and NS communist party
Apr 19 2003 8:17PM
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ElasmoSkiChick
Posts: 5089 - Karma: 28
Excellent thread! About all of my thoughts have already been expressed in here, but I just wanted to say that this is an awesome idea. Post more like this!
Apr 19 2003 8:35PM
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Kornn101
Posts: 3534 - Karma: 25
my mind just melted from the mix of thc and pure knowledge, ughhh
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Apr 19 2003 9:01PM
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Lateralis
Posts: 1228 - Karma: 332
the quesiton i always ask myself is why all of this and how??? keeps me wondering for hours,me and friend got really stoned and discussed why the fuck world is here and shit for like 4 hours,so much whacked shit was talked about,we should of recorded it



'Now, I'm lubing up the little toy car so, I can put it in my bum' - Ryan Dunn
Apr 19 2003 9:03PM
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K_2
Posts: 1446 - Karma: 11
My brain! What have you done to my brain!
Apr 19 2003 9:09PM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,010
ok - I fell that this should be my last post in this thread for after this I can not think of anything else I can costructivly add to the subject. These are the words of Stephen Hawking in his conclusion to 'A Brief History of Time'


Einstein once asked the question: 'How much choice did God have in constructing the universe?'

Even if there is only one possible unified theory, it is just a set of rules and equations. What is it that breathes fire into the equations and makes a universe for them to describe?... Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Is the unified theory so compelling that it brings about its own existence? Or does it need a creator, and, if so, does he have any other effect on the universe? And who created him?



... if we do discover a complete theory, it should in time be understandable in broad principle by everyone, not just a few scientists. Then we shall all, philosophers, scientists, and just ordinary people, be able to take part in the discussion of the question of why it is that we and the universe exist. If we find the answer to that, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason - for then we would know the mind of God.




after reading that (and if you have the time i fell that everyone should read that book... it's very interesting if you care about this kind of shit) it has made me think. science and religion really don't mean shit. religion is just an answer for an unanserable question (as said in a different thread on here) (and i'm not saying it's wrong... but we really don't know), science doesn't answer anything till they have proof (and even than they have been known to scrap theories or at least just change them when the results of the 'proof' change) so at this time there is no full answer as to what the universe is where and how it began and what it's fate is. So I think that the purpose of life not just an individual person (that is a completely different subject about weather humans are on a set path by god or if we decide our own fate) but life meaning the human race and our existance on this planet while we inhabit it is to find out the answer to the question: why it is that we and the universe exist. for than we would know the mind of god.

but - if we ever do figure out the answer to that question... than what?

Darryl Hunt

good quotes from Donny Darko
Donnie: You are such a fuckass!
Elizabeth: Did you just call me a fuckass? You can go suck a fuck!!
Donnie: Oh really, and how does one suck a fuck?

Donnie: First of all, Papa Smurf didn't create Smurfette. Gargamel did. She was sent in as Gargamel's evil spy with the intention of destroying the Smurf village, but the overwhelming goodness of the Smurf way of life transformed her. And as for the whole gang-bang scenario, it just couldn't happen. Smurfs are asexual. They don't even have reproductive organs under those little white pants. That's what's so illogical, you know, about being a Smurf. What's the point of living if you don't have a dick?

Apr 19 2003 11:46PM
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z_boarder914
Posts: 1668 - Karma: 10
I didnt read alot of the alst few posts since my last one, but i was thinking about this thread and came up with another theory.

Could out solar system be like an atom? the plantes (electrons) revolving around a nucleus (the sun)?

Science knows that inbetween an electron and the nucleus is nothing, sooooooo could that mean we are somethign smaller than an elctron? in fact inhabiting one thats part of an altogetehr bigger mass? and that it keeps getting smaller and smaller?

If thats true we would eb a stable element coz we have 8 planets(elctrons) orbiting. I took chemistrya nd one of thigns i know is that 8 elctrons on the outer shell is a stable electron. Just a bnit of extra thrown in there!
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Apr 20 2003 2:34PM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,010
are you retarded or just dumb? we got 9 planets buddy

Darryl Hunt

good quotes from Donny Darko
Donnie: You are such a fuckass!
Elizabeth: Did you just call me a fuckass? You can go suck a fuck!!
Donnie: Oh really, and how does one suck a fuck?

Donnie: First of all, Papa Smurf didn't create Smurfette. Gargamel did. She was sent in as Gargamel's evil spy with the intention of destroying the Smurf village, but the overwhelming goodness of the Smurf way of life transformed her. And as for the whole gang-bang scenario, it just couldn't happen. Smurfs are asexual. They don't even have reproductive organs under those little white pants. That's what's so illogical, you know, about being a Smurf. What's the point of living if you don't have a dick?

Apr 20 2003 4:32PM
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Nine_Milla_Killa
Posts: 6783 - Karma: 23
Yo, Z_Boarder, we have seen the edge of the big bang. they can see the beginning of that explosion with some kind of crazy telescope. But we are looking back in time... What we see happened trillions of years ago. Now THAT blows my mind.
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Apr 20 2003 5:05PM
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Lateralis
Posts: 1228 - Karma: 332
whatever created us,will destroy us,

that my saying



'Now, I'm lubing up the little toy car so, I can put it in my bum' - Ryan Dunn
Apr 20 2003 5:34PM
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WIfreeskier
Posts: 8125 - Karma: 65
yeah, half of the stars that we see today probably don't even exist because it takes so long for the light to get here... whoa... trip...
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Apr 20 2003 5:35PM
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theBOSS.
Posts: 4705 - Karma: 496
For whoever said something about between the electrons and the nucleas. Think about this. The distance between the electrons ans the nucleus is so great compared to the size of the particles, that 99.999% of an atom is empty space. Look at your finger. Try to imagine this. 99.999% of your finger is empty space. If it weren't for the electric charges, you would be able to pass anything through anything with absolutely no collision of any atom whatsoever.

The same is true for galaxies. 99.99% of a galaxy is empty space. So empty, that 2 galaxys can pass through each other and have no effect on the other one. Now just think about this. Galaxies only occupy 99.99999 percent of all the universe. If 99 percent of galaxies are empty space, and 99 percont of empty space is galaxies, just think about how empty the universe really is.
Apr 20 2003 6:28PM
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Lateralis
Posts: 1228 - Karma: 332
thats alot of space be skiing in if it were all snow,



'Now, I'm lubing up the little toy car so, I can put it in my bum' - Ryan Dunn
Apr 20 2003 6:51PM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,010
you forgot about gravity. just 'cause the galaxies are mostly space doesn't mean there arn't forces there.

and the majority of the universe is made up of shit that you can't even see (dark matter and dark energy)... so even though it may appear to be empty space, it may not be the case.

Darryl Hunt

good quotes from Donny Darko
Donnie: You are such a fuckass!
Elizabeth: Did you just call me a fuckass? You can go suck a fuck!!
Donnie: Oh really, and how does one suck a fuck?

Donnie: First of all, Papa Smurf didn't create Smurfette. Gargamel did. She was sent in as Gargamel's evil spy with the intention of destroying the Smurf village, but the overwhelming goodness of the Smurf way of life transformed her. And as for the whole gang-bang scenario, it just couldn't happen. Smurfs are asexual. They don't even have reproductive organs under those little white pants. That's what's so illogical, you know, about being a Smurf. What's the point of living if you don't have a dick?

Apr 20 2003 11:01PM
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WIfreeskier
Posts: 8125 - Karma: 65
sorry, but our fingers aren't made of electrons...
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-I don't trust anything that bleeds for 7 days and doesn't die

HIGH NORTH SESSION 2!
Apr 20 2003 11:24PM
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theBOSS.
Posts: 4705 - Karma: 496
Yeah, I thoguht about gravity, seriously, but I didnt want to type all that, and I also thought no one would think that hard about it.

And who said our fingers are made of just electrons? Read, it says electrons and nucleus, which makes an atom. And atoms make pretty much everything.
Apr 20 2003 11:32PM
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WIfreeskier
Posts: 8125 - Karma: 65
oh yeah, fuck. i'm too fucking stoned right now, this shit jus t blows my mind.
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-I don't trust anything that bleeds for 7 days and doesn't die

HIGH NORTH SESSION 2!
Apr 20 2003 11:35PM
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theBOSS.
Posts: 4705 - Karma: 496
hahaha
Apr 20 2003 11:36PM
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petek
Posts: 8762 - Karma: 12
ok, all of this theorizing is kinda useless, because I MADE THE WORLD, it took me a while, but its MINE!!!


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Apr 20 2003 11:37PM
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wrenegade
Posts: 6631 - Karma: 41
ok, im damn tired, so i didnt read many of the posts after the top ones, so i dont know if this has been mentioned, but wouldnt the speed of light be relative to the solar system and star that it is based on? I don't know, just something more to think about.


Western Canadian Separartist
Apr 20 2003 11:54PM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,010
all light travels the same speed, doesn't matter what star (or source) it came from.

Darryl Hunt

good quotes from Donny Darko
Donnie: You are such a fuckass!
Elizabeth: Did you just call me a fuckass? You can go suck a fuck!!
Donnie: Oh really, and how does one suck a fuck?

Donnie: First of all, Papa Smurf didn't create Smurfette. Gargamel did. She was sent in as Gargamel's evil spy with the intention of destroying the Smurf village, but the overwhelming goodness of the Smurf way of life transformed her. And as for the whole gang-bang scenario, it just couldn't happen. Smurfs are asexual. They don't even have reproductive organs under those little white pants. That's what's so illogical, you know, about being a Smurf. What's the point of living if you don't have a dick?

Apr 21 2003 1:09PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
You know what would be cool? If we could go skiing on Pluto. I mean its all snow and shit, it would be coooool wooooooooo....
=========================
^Rowen^

Why?

'You're watching the Family Learning Channel. And now, angry ticks will fire out from my nipples.'
- Excerpt from Rejected, a movie by Don Hertzfeldt
Apr 21 2003 1:41PM
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gravteck
Posts: 2390 - Karma: 13
You're not looking back in time when you see the background or any other star that has burned out. The time it takes for the light to reach us from that star is A LOT compared to how long ago the physical star burned out. I'm sure even your elementary school science teachers mentioned we won't know the sun has blown up until 7 or 8 minutes afterwards. That's simply how long it would take the light to travel here. That light is still in the present time, you're not seeing into the past. That's like saying you saw a dead person and his physical substance meant you were looking into the past because he's not alive anymore.
Apr 21 2003 1:53PM
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Nine_Milla_Killa
Posts: 6783 - Karma: 23
whats crazy too is that gravity can actually BEND light!
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A friend will help you move.
A really good friend will help you move a body.

Bombing for Peace is like Screwing for Virginity.
Apr 21 2003 2:46PM
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J-Ho
Posts: 360 - Karma: 10
yeh lots of interestiong shit that I have thought about has been mentioned here... its cool to see I'm not the only one who thinks about this shit.
But I feel the need to express a few points:
1)The speed of light is constan.
2)And when we look in our telescopes it is as if we Are looking back in time.

I got a few questions also, interesting ones:
1)What do u guys think about infinite velocity? Is it possible? And lets assume you were travelling at infinite velocity and you wanted to stop somewhere, how would you calculate where you are?
2) Do you guys believe that the we can go beyond the speed of light?

I got much more but I'm too lazy to write them all.


dodgeball and nuts = a few guys on the floor crying and many laughing

skiing or sex... good question????
Apr 21 2003 3:12PM
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