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Subject: ON3P received demand to change name of “Great Scott”
iggyskierUltimate Bling!
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Nov 1 2009
10:00:56

This post is meant to inform anyone who has to date purchased a “Great Scott” ski from ON3P, or those who are considering a future purchase.  In late October, ON3P received a cease and desist order from SCOTT USA Ltd., and its affiliates SCOTT Sports SA and SCOTT USA Inc., demanding ON3P immediately cease commercialization and sales of all “Great Scott” branded skis for reasons of  trademark infringement. 

We are current exploring the legality of the use of “Scott” in the name of our ski “Great Scott” and should reach a decision in the near future.

Once we have reached a decision, I will post an update on the matter.

Scott Andrus

ON3P Skis // Handmade in Portland, Oregon

www.on3pskis.com

Mr.Huck$
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Nov 3 2009
1:17:34
Quoting pretzels from Nov 2 2009 7:01:55:
could Liberty produce a pow ski called the Floating Armada?
This.  I could see where people not as savvy about ski products might buy the ON3P's ski thinking that they were buying a product made by Scott.  Everything's tight right now and everyone is fighting for market share so they can stay in business.  Scott may be bigger than ON3P, but it is hardly an industry giant.  I may get slammed for this, but I like pretzel's analogy.  No hate towards ON3P, but I think this was a mistake on their part. 
AndrewCinch
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Nov 3 2009
1:24:26
Quoting AndrewCinch from Nov 3 2009 12:47:43:
^Really?! I thought iggyskier said don't do that!

The thread above me got removed. Hooray!

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bootleg_BEN
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Nov 3 2009
1:25:09
Quoting AndrewCinch from Nov 3 2009 1:24:26:
The thread above me got removed. Hooray!
Ya i saw that too.

That was just stupid.
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Previously czarskeeze7

AndrewCinch
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Nov 3 2009
1:29:27
^Yeah. If Armada sued Liberty (for pretzel's "floating Armada" haha) You don't drag T-Hall into it.
..And so it was that when God created snow, man was compelled to ride through it on two wooden boards..

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Tingas_Hats$
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Nov 3 2009
1:30:26
Quoting Mr.Huck$ from Nov 3 2009 1:17:34:
This.  I could see where people not as savvy about ski products might buy the ON3P's ski thinking that they were buying a product made by Scott.  Everything's tight right now and everyone is fighting for market share so they can stay in business.  Scott may be bigger than ON3P, but it is hardly an industry giant.  I may get slammed for this, but I like pretzel's analogy.  No hate towards ON3P, but I think this was a mistake on their part. 
the armada analogy is not a good one.

armada is not someone's name it is a trademark. Scott on the other hand cannot be trademarked because it is someone's name.

and no anyone who knows about on3p would not think they are buying SCOTT skis. Skis are expensive things and people don't just buy them. they research what they are going to buy. or at least they should.
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Mex_LineJib^a$
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Nov 3 2009
1:32:46

what an ass move on scott's behalf.

def not buying/using their shit this season. support your own ns, support on3p!

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bootleg_BEN
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Nov 3 2009
1:38:12
Quoting Mex_LineJib^a$ from Nov 3 2009 1:32:46:
what an ass move on scott's behalf.
def not buying/using their shit this season. support your own ns, support on3p!
As much as this annoys me what scott did, i have scott gloves and scott poles and also have some scott goggles but i am selling them. so i will continue to use them, but i usually go nopoles so it doesnt matter to much. AND i cant exactly afford new gloves right now so.
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J.D.$
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Nov 3 2009
1:38:54
Quoting Mr.Huck$ from Nov 3 2009 1:17:34:
This.  I could see where people not as savvy about ski products might buy the ON3P's ski thinking that they were buying a product made by Scott.
Not only is the analogy you quoted really dumb (Armada is not a personal name like "Scott" nor is it a commonly known phrase like "Great Scott"), you're doubly wrong because no one could ever buy the Great Scott thinking they were buying a Scott ski. Why? Because a) nowhere on the ski does the word "Scott" appear, and b) you can only buy On3p skis on On3p Skis' website. How much of a complete retard would you have to be to go on ON3P's website and think, "Hey, that's weird, On3p sells 5 models of its own skis, and one model that's made by Scott USA, which appears strangely similar to the 5 it makes itself in terms of design and graphics!"

Try again.
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J.D.$
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Nov 3 2009
1:39:50
Quoting bootleg_BEN from Nov 3 2009 1:38:12:
As much as this annoys me what scott did, i have scott gloves and scott poles and also have some scott goggles but i am selling them. so i will continue to use them, but i usually go nopoles so it doesnt matter to much. AND i cant exactly afford new gloves right now so.
Last year's Armada gloves: 40 bucks on backcountry.com. Last year's Joystick leather gloves: 40 bucks on evogear. Make it happen.
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bootleg_BEN
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Nov 3 2009
1:43:55
Quoting J.D.$ from Nov 3 2009 1:39:50:
Last year's Armada gloves: 40 bucks on backcountry.com. Last year's Joystick leather gloves: 40 bucks on evogear. Make it happen.
Im trying to trade/sell a hoodie for some gloves, they are park gloves and i only use them few times a season so not to big of a deal.


Other than that though i dont know what Scott USA was thinking, im hoping it is something along the lines of the legal department sending this out and somebody that isnt a complete idiot will realize what is happening and pull back the order and it will just be a misunderstanding from a gaper legal department person.
Wallisch doesn't afterbang, Afterbang does the wallisch -Prophetmatt

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ski@jaypeak2$
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Nov 3 2009
1:51:00
Has Armada ever thought about suing Nissan?  I mean Armada came out in 2002 while it wasnt untill 2004 that Nissan debuted its Armada SUV.
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Nov 3 2009
1:53:54
Quoting ski@jaypeak2$ from Nov 3 2009 1:51:00:
Has Armada ever thought about suing Nissan?  I mean Armada came out in 2002 while it wasnt untill 2004 that Nissan debuted its Armada SUV.
They'd lose, no one will reasonably be confused into thinking Nissan is making skis or Armada is making a car. The businesses are too different. The classic example is Matel (makers of the Barbie doll) suing Barbie's restaurant and losing because no one is likely to think the two businesses are run by the same people given that they have totally different purposes.
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Mr.Huck$
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Nov 3 2009
2:00:21
Quoting Tingas_Hats$ from Nov 3 2009 1:30:26:
the armada analogy is not a good one.

armada is not someone's name it is a trademark. Scott on the other hand cannot be trademarked because it is someone's name.

and no anyone who knows about on3p would not think they are buying SCOTT skis. Skis are expensive things and people don't just buy them. they research what they are going to buy. or at least they should.
Sorry, still got to disagree:

A Armada N ARDMORE AVE
LOS ANGELES, CA 90004
323-665-5269 A Armada ARMADA DR
VENTURA, CA 93003
805-644-5676 Andrew Armada LEMONA AVE
NORTH HILLS, CA 91343
818-893-5735 Ariston Armada POSADA DEL SOL
NOVATO, CA 94949
415-884-0518 Arnold Armada GLENOAKS BLVD
SYLMAR, CA 91342

Great Scott is like someone making a ski called the Better Line IMO.  I like both of these companies and I think the situation sucks.  Small companies can't afford to spend big money on litigation.  No one wins here.  I wish it hadn't happened. 
T-Holt$
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Nov 3 2009
2:00:31
Quoting J.D.$ from Nov 3 2009 1:53:54:
They'd lose, no one will reasonably be confused into thinking Nissan is making skis or Armada is making a car. The businesses are too different. The classic example is Matel (makers of the Barbie doll) suing Barbie's restaurant and losing because no one is likely to think the two businesses are run by the same people given that they have totally different purposes.
Wait, so my pair of Armada ARVs isn't car?
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J.D.$
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Nov 3 2009
2:06:46
Quoting Mr.Huck$ from Nov 3 2009 2:00:21:
Sorry, still got to disagree:
You might still disagree, but you're still wrong.

The way it works is, whether an average person would think of the mark as primarily merely a name, or a word that operates as a brand. Anyone you might ask walking down the street would not look at "Armada" as a common name. However, even the most involved person with skiing who knows all of the Scott USA ski lineup will tell you that the word "Scott" is primarily a personal name, which also just happens to be a brand name. This is further borne out by the fact that the Scott ski brand is actually named after its founder.
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SkierX$
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Nov 3 2009
2:08:22
Quoting T-Holt$ from Nov 3 2009 2:00:31:
Wait, so my pair of Armada ARVs isn't car?
SHIT!!!!!!!
Correct.

They are boats.
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J.D.$
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Nov 3 2009
2:08:57
Quoting SkierX$ from Nov 3 2009 2:08:22:
Correct.

They are boats.
Special boats for floating on frozen water.
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Mr.Huck$
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Nov 3 2009
2:16:06
Quoting J.D.$ from Nov 3 2009 2:06:46:
You might still disagree, but you're still wrong.

The way it works is, whether an average person would think of the mark as primarily merely a name, or a word that operates as a brand. Anyone you might ask walking down the street would not look at "Armada" as a common name. However, even the most involved person with skiing who knows all of the Scott USA ski lineup will tell you that the word "Scott" is primarily a personal name, which also just happens to be a brand name. This is further borne out by the fact that the Scott ski brand is actually named after its founder.
Maybe I am.  I'm not a lawyer nor do I play one on T.V.  I don't hate either Company.  There is a lot of hate on this thread toward Scott, which is a company I have respected for years; wait decades.  That's all. 
J.D.$
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Nov 3 2009
2:17:25
Well that's to be expected when you sue a company that's smaller than you and can't afford to defend itself... people tend to look at it like bullying.
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aoe$
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Nov 3 2009
2:45:50
J.D. is right. And as fucked as the legal situation may be in some cases, these type of cases often come down to common sense. If it isn't apparent that a name is meant to infringe on another name, be it because it is a person's proper name or they operate in two entirely different industries, then it's gonna get thrown out in 95% of cases.

Common sense in the legal system is a good thing and the reason why if this went to court it wouldn't likely amount to anything.
I_hate_you6985
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Nov 3 2009
3:22:09
Quoting Tingas_Hats$ from Nov 3 2009 1:30:26:
and no anyone who knows about on3p would not think they are buying SCOTT skis. Skis are expensive things and people don't just buy them. they research what they are going to buy. or at least they should.
They are not worried about the people who know skis. they are worried that theier brand of skis will get confused with on3p. This suit is actually vaild... and really its just a name, i would rather see this worked out outside of court
....but what the fuck do I know?

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lunchmeat
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Nov 3 2009
4:00:17
Quoting Mr.Huck$ from Nov 3 2009 1:17:34:
Scott may be bigger than ON3P, but it is hardly an industry giant.

Right.

a company that's logo is plastered across Video games, ski/snowboard/motorbike/mountainbike/snowmobile/roadbike magazines, resorts across the globe, and has been running for over 50 years? how many pairs of scott goggles do you see at your home mountain when all the tourists come for the weekend? Scott may not be the most popular company in the newschoolers demographic, but it sure as hell is one giant company in the ski industry

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Marshall.
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Nov 3 2009
4:13:14
Quoting I_hate_you6985 from Nov 3 2009 3:22:09:
They are not worried about the people who know skis. they are worried that theier brand of skis will get confused with on3p. This suit is actually vaild... and really its just a name, i would rather see this worked out outside of court
Are you fucking illiterate?
Have you not read J.D.s post like ten posts up?
Have you not realized why it is NOT POSSIBLE to confuse them unless you are actually mentally retarded, or tripping on acid and just wandering the internet.
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Bangzilla
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Nov 3 2009
4:21:33

Agreed, "Great Scott" is a thing long before Scott started making any products.

This has probably been posted but I dont have time to read all 7 pages.

WIKIPEDIA

The expression is of uncertain origin. It is believed to date back at least as far as the American Civil War, and may refer to the commander‑in‑chief of the U.S. Army, General Winfield Scott. The general, known to his troops as Old Fuss and Feathers, weighed 300 pounds (21 stone or 136 kg) in his later years and was too fat to ride a horse.[1] A May 1861 edition of the New York Times carried the sentence:

These gathering hosts of loyal freemen, under the command of the great SCOTT.

In an 1871 issue of Galaxy magazine, there is:

"Great—Scott!" he gasped in his stupefaction, using the name of the then commander-in-chief for an oath, as officers sometimes did in those days.

The phrase also appears in the 3 May 1864 diary entry by Private Robert Knox Sneden (later published as Eye of the Storm: a Civil War Odyssey):

‘Great Scott,’ who would have thought that this would be the destiny of the Union Volunteer in 1861–2 while marching down Broadway to the tune of ‘John Brown’s Body’.[1]

Another possible origin is people seeking to emulate the German Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha altered and anglicized "Grüß Gott!", or "God bless!" into "Great Scott!". The etymologist and author John Ciardi once believed this, but later recanted in a radio broadcast in 1985. Despite that recantation, the expression is likely to be a minced oath: a mild substitute for invoking the name of God; very possibly derived from the phrase "[by the] grace of God".

Scott USA clearly has no case. 

If I was ON3P I would not worry about it a bit.  They are not going to spend the money to sue you.  It is free to send someone a letter from a lawyer, it costs a lot to try take someone to court.

C.Wood
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Nov 3 2009
4:28:50
just take away one of the 't' in the name
you did change it and it isn't the same as their name
linett
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Nov 3 2009
4:32:53
Quoting C.Wood from Nov 3 2009 4:28:50:
just take away one of the 't' in the name
you did change it and it isn't the same as their name
As said above they shouldn't have to.
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Nov 3 2009
5:14:04
Quoting C.Wood from Nov 3 2009 4:28:50:
just take away one of the 't' in the name
you did change it and it isn't the same as their name
"Great Scot"? Probably end up getting suid by some company that makes kilts.
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NickyBPorters
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Nov 3 2009
6:47:53
Change the name, that's a stupid name for a ski anyway.
Dr.Derek$
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Nov 3 2009
6:49:46
RE NAME IT AFTER WILL!
COUNTRY




HUNTIN




Marshall.
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Nov 3 2009
6:53:07
Quoting NickyBPorters from Nov 3 2009 6:47:53:
Change the name, that's a stupid name for a ski anyway.
Trollin for crabs
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The_Future
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Nov 3 2009
11:59:25
Bump to the front page because I believe this shit should be a sticky anyways.
Elan Skis
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PETER=
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Nov 4 2009
12:03:18
Okay lets be real here. How many people on this website could possibly mistake an ON3P product for a SCOTT one? None hopefully. So the problem then lies in the average consumer. But think about it, How many average consumers know what SCOTT skies are let alone ON3P. 99% of the time, average skiers rent their equipment, or buy whatever ski mart caries which is neither of the two brands. ANd if by some strange accident they wander into a real ski shop with the intent to buy skis not made by dynastar salomon or rossi, what are the chances that that shop will have either, let alone both of those brands.
Sure from a technicality standpoint, it may seem like there's an issue, and like the survival of the SCOTT product name is in jeopardy, bot how many people not on NS.com have even heard of ON3P before.
And if the consumer were buying them online, chances are they'd go to a website that doesn't cary ON3P or SCOTT skis. (have any of you every tried to buy/ find SCOTT skis online it's not easy.)

This is just another frivolous lawsuit brought forth by profit motivated lawyers who don't know anything about the industry in which they work. Why? because they really don't have to. Props to Jib Yard for only hiring people who actually ride.
ZavierV
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Nov 4 2009
12:07:48
Quoting PETER= from Nov 4 2009 12:03:18:
ANd if by some strange accident they wander into a real ski shop with the intent to buy skis not made by dynastar salomon or rossi, what are the chances that that shop will have either, let alone both of those brands.
The chances are zero because On3p skis can only be purchase from the On3p website.
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lanks
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Nov 4 2009
1:02:37
i'd say the only legitimate argument that could be made on behalf of scott would be that if a google search of "scott skis" was conducted and by chance the on3p great scott appeared (which would clearly defy the laws of google search optimization)... then confusion could arise if the google searcher was missing a chromosome and couldn't make a distinction between brand and model. farfetched? absolutely. just sayin'.
freelowda
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Nov 4 2009
1:05:55
Quoting lanks from Nov 4 2009 1:02:37:
i'd say the only legitimate argument that could be made on behalf of scott would be that if a google search of "scott skis" was conducted and by chance the on3p great scott appeared (which would clearly defy the laws of google search optimization)...
If you Google "great scott skis" right now, this thread is the top hit, haha.

Marshall.
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Nov 4 2009
1:07:18
Quoting freelowda from Nov 4 2009 1:05:55:
If you Google "great scott skis" right now, this thread is the top hit, haha.
True story.
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lanks
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Nov 4 2009
1:08:28
niice.
D.Brown$
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Nov 4 2009
1:09:22
Quoting doublexl from Nov 2 2009 10:49:04:
Click for larger image

i have SCOTT poles, but i stole em...
Got a pair from a girlfriend's little sister, I ain't paid shiiiit


-Dan
PASKIINGSUCKSUltimate Bling!
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Nov 4 2009
9:24:30
http://www.usoutdoorstore.com/outlet/burton-great-scott-cap.html

Burton got away with it. Not a ski, but they are in snowsports.




and bump
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edd1e
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Nov 4 2009
10:15:12
http://www.greatscottmagic4u.com/

the great scott, magician

http://www.myspace.com/djgreatscott

dj great scott

lol more than one magician

http://www.thegreatscott.com/
edd1e
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Nov 4 2009
10:18:22
http://greatscottmagic4u.com/images/Leaning.jpg
kepler.$
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Nov 4 2009
3:09:28
Quoting PETER= from Nov 4 2009 12:03:18:
Okay lets be real here. How many people on this website could possibly mistake an ON3P product for a SCOTT one? None hopefully. So the problem then lies in the average consumer. But think about it, How many average consumers know what SCOTT skies are let alone ON3P. 99% of the time, average skiers rent their equipment, or buy whatever ski mart caries which is neither of the two brands. ANd if by some strange accident they wander into a real ski shop with the intent to buy skis not made by dynastar salomon or rossi, what are the chances that that shop will have either, let alone both of those brands.Sure from a technicality standpoint, it may seem like there's an issue, and like the survival of the SCOTT product name is in jeopardy, bot how many people not on NS.com have even heard of ON3P before.And if the consumer were buying them online, chances are they'd go to a website that doesn't cary ON3P or SCOTT skis. (have any of you every tried to buy/ find SCOTT skis online it's not easy.)This is just another frivolous lawsuit brought forth by profit motivated lawyers who don't know anything about the industry in which they work. Why? because they really don't have to. Props to Jib Yard for only hiring people who actually ride.
What are the chances the few boutiques that sell ON3P are going to sell a customer them a ski and tell them it's a Scott ski?

Seriously, ON3P isn't sold at your local sporting good's store. It's a small very specialized company with extremely unique skis. Even 4 year olds can tell the differences between shape and color...
It's funny.

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Nov 4 2009
3:27:48
Quoting edd1e from Nov 4 2009 10:15:12:
http://www.greatscottmagic4u.com/

the great scott, magician

http://www.myspace.com/djgreatscott

dj great scott

lol more than one magician

http://www.thegreatscott.com/
gtfo. YOU CAN'T CONFUSE A MAGICIAN OR A DJ WITH A SKI.
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Nov 4 2009
3:59:56
Quoting professor.BON...$ from Nov 4 2009 3:27:48:
gtfo. YOU CAN'T CONFUSE A MAGICIAN OR A DJ WITH A SKI.
If somebody is dumb enough to confuse Scott skis with ON3P skis, or with the model "The Great Scott," I'm sure they posses enough stupidity to confuse a magician and a DJ with a pair of skis.  I'm surprised said people can even use the interwebz.
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"Which is longer? The list of threads on hellbents or the extra distance it takes to hockey stop on bents on groomers." -V
wrenegade
Karma : 24268
6354 Posts
No Life
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Nov 4 2009
4:22:51
Quoting PASKIINGSUCKSUltimate Bling! from Nov 4 2009 9:24:30:
http://www.usoutdoorstore.com/outlet/burton-great-scott-cap.html

Burton got away with it. Not a ski, but they are in snowsports.




and bump
Ya but Burton's legal team would eat Scott USA for breakfast. Not so with ON3P.
jnizzle
Karma : 1564
180 Posts
Pro
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Nov 4 2009
4:31:23
WME+SCOTT<ON3P+LEVEL 1
J.D.$
Karma : 33348
16033 Posts
Post Whore
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Nov 4 2009
4:31:45
Quoting kepler.$ from Nov 4 2009 3:09:28:
What are the chances the few boutiques that sell ON3P are going to sell a customer them a ski and tell them it's a Scott ski?
Well zero, because there are so few boutiques that sell ON3P, they don't even exist.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Joystickskiing.com~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ridesdragons
Karma : 5799
1340 Posts
Insane
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Nov 4 2009
5:16:05
Quoting PASKIINGSUCKSUltimate Bling! from Nov 4 2009 9:24:30:
http://www.usoutdoorstore.com/outlet/burton-great-scott-cap.html

Burton got away with it. Not a ski, but they are in snowsports.




and bump
Haha.

Someone email Scott USA that link and ask them if they'll be suing Burton next.

Should be a sticky until it's resolved IMO.

I have Scott poles, however after this, I'll be supporting other companies such as Joystick.
AK Owns
AndrewCinch
Karma : 10111
741 Posts
Ridiculous
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Nov 4 2009
5:56:37
Quoting ridesdragons from Nov 4 2009 5:16:05:
Haha.Someone email Scott USA that link and ask them if they'll be suing Burton next.Should be a sticky until it's resolved IMO.I have Scott poles, however after this, I'll be supporting other companies such as Joystick.
From what I would think Scott would feel Burton as less of a threat as they make snowboards.
..And so it was that when God created snow, man was compelled to ride through it on two wooden boards..

Join the Jib life cult and win a shirt!
http://www.newschoolers.com/web/content/viewcult/action/view/id/4651/

kepler.$
Karma : 12275
8322 Posts
Crazy Fool
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Nov 4 2009
6:12:18
Quoting J.D.$ from Nov 4 2009 4:31:45:
Well zero, because there are so few boutiques that sell ON3P, they don't even exist.
Really? I was only taking a stab that a few shops had some ON3P's.

In that case, this cease and desist is even more ridiculous.
It's funny.

www.newschoolers.com/web/content/search

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