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Subject: ON3P received demand to change name of “Great Scott”
iggyskierUltimate Bling!
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Nov 1 2009
10:00:56

This post is meant to inform anyone who has to date purchased a “Great Scott” ski from ON3P, or those who are considering a future purchase.  In late October, ON3P received a cease and desist order from SCOTT USA Ltd., and its affiliates SCOTT Sports SA and SCOTT USA Inc., demanding ON3P immediately cease commercialization and sales of all “Great Scott” branded skis for reasons of  trademark infringement. 

We are current exploring the legality of the use of “Scott” in the name of our ski “Great Scott” and should reach a decision in the near future.

Once we have reached a decision, I will post an update on the matter.

Scott Andrus

ON3P Skis // Handmade in Portland, Oregon

www.on3pskis.com

heff$
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Nov 1 2009
11:49:51
Quoting J.D.$ from Nov 1 2009 10:52:13:
Wrong. Wrong wrong wrong. This is by FAR the most ridiculous. Not even close. It is FUNDAMENTAL trademark law that you can use your own proper name as a mark and Scott USA's lawyers know that. They are doing this for the SOLE PURPOSE of using their money advantage as a large multinational company to apply pressure to a smaller competitor. I don't work for on3p but I support what iggyskier is doing and NO ONE should support a company that wants to fuck with the little guy like this. This is every bit as bad as WME vs. Level 1, we are in a tight knit industry and throwing around lawsuits is not above board. I will be sending a letter to Scott USA and I encourage all of you to do likewise, just as you did with WME.
this...

fucking scott...common
the grass isnt always greener on the other side, sometimes the grass needs to be rolled up and enjoyed wherever it is-colt45er

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TWoods
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Nov 1 2009
11:50:52
Please PLEASE PLEASE be respectful in this matter.

Scott, however rediculous, is doing things for the sport. I never said anything about my opinion on people sending aggro emails to WME because WME sucks the life out of skiing and everything they touch. Scott is trying to change it's image and put out quality product tailored for us.

This is an ABSURD thing Scott has done, however, we gotta look out for everyone here because this effects a lot of people. Raise the issue, voice your opinion, but BE RESPECTFUL!
on3p
4bi9

no_steezeUltimate Bling!
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Nov 1 2009
11:51:06
Quoting Jon63 from Nov 1 2009 11:47:08:
here's what I sent...
hopefully it doesn't suck



Hello,

I've been a supporter of the skis that SCOTT USA produces for many years and have always thought that you guys are one of the most under-recognized manufacturers in the ski industry. Because of this, I was very excited to hear that SCOTT had signed Tom Wallisch to its team. I saw this as an opportunity for SCOTT to gain the recognition it deserves.

However, just a few hours later, I was shocked to hear that SCOTT USA is suing ON3P Skis on the claim of copyright infringement due to their "Great Scott" model ski. I view this as absolute absurdity and can not justify supporting SCOTT anymore. I enjoy your skis but am not willing to funnel my money toward a company that will ultimately damage the ski industry and the smaller ski manufacturers within it. Furthermore, I can not understand how ON3P's naming of the "Great Scott" ski is damaging your brand. I am, however, hoping to hear back with your point of view on the matter.

Has nothing been learned from the Warren Miller Entertainment vs. Level 1 Productions lawsuit?    Please reconsider you actions against ON3P skis.

Thanks,
Jon
ok you idiot scott is not suing on3p, it was a simple name change request, not a lawsuit

i dont think this is a big enough issue yet for you guys to bitch to scott usa. just hold out, if they give on3p an even harder time, then go for it

it's like a bear named scott usa in your on3p campground...yeah it sucks it's there, but poking it with a stick will make it much angrier and matters worse for your feeble body. however, if it attacks you, then it's appropriate to stab it in the throat

/amazing analogy
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J.D.$
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Nov 1 2009
11:53:22
Quoting no_steezeUltimate Bling! from Nov 1 2009 11:42:34:
looks like Scott25~ is gonna have to get banned again
Hahaha I knew there was a bright side to all this.

Yes I'm sure that On3p will have to just give in and change the name, there's no way they can afford to defend a lawsuit like this in their startup year. It's just such complete bullshit. I don't think it matters if NS kids are pricks about it, I don't see how it makes a difference. They know on3p can't afford to fight a big company like them.
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J.D.$
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Nov 1 2009
11:54:47
Quoting no_steezeUltimate Bling! from Nov 1 2009 11:51:06:
ok you idiot scott is not suing on3p, it was a simple name change request, not a lawsuit
It's a cease and desist letter. It is the same damned thing. They are saying, "do what we're telling you to do or we WILL sue you."
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Nov 1 2009
11:56:22
Quoting J.D.$ from Nov 1 2009 11:53:22:
Hahaha I knew there was a bright side to all this.

Yes I'm sure that On3p will have to just give in and change the name, there's no way they can afford to defend a lawsuit like this in their startup year. It's just such complete bullshit. I don't think it matters if NS kids are pricks about it, I don't see how it makes a difference. They know on3p can't afford to fight a big company like them.
Yeah poor ski companies are getting picked on by the big ski companies. It's sad
R.I.P Saucer Boy

no_steezeUltimate Bling!
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Nov 1 2009
11:56:38
Quoting J.D.$ from Nov 1 2009 11:54:47:
It's a cease and desist letter. It is the same damned thing. They are saying, "do what we're telling you to do or we WILL sue you."
yes but the threat of a lawsuit can be tossed around much more casually than an actual lawsuit, so saying scott usa is actually suing on3p is not the truth
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Nov 2 2009
12:07:35
Woooooooow.
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*Azz*$
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Nov 2 2009
12:12:43
Quoting Marshall. from Nov 1 2009 10:29:43:
Well there goes Scotts chance of selling me anything.
This...Too bad I just bought Scott poles today

That is stupid as shit btw...
Hi I'm Ryan! What's your name?

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Jon63
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Nov 2 2009
12:26:01
Quoting no_steezeUltimate Bling! from Nov 1 2009 11:51:06:
ok you idiot scott is not suing on3p, it was a simple name change request, not a lawsuiti dont think this is a big enough issue yet for you guys to bitch to scott usa. just hold out, if they give on3p an even harder time, then go for itit's like a bear named scott usa in your on3p campground...yeah it sucks it's there, but poking it with a stick will make it much angrier and matters worse for your feeble body. however, if it attacks you, then it's appropriate to stab it in the throat/amazing analogy
ok so I used the wrong terminology... big deal. they know what i meant, and i even referenced the name change later in the e-mail. you actually did the exact same thing right as you called me out for it. it's NOT a "simple name change request" either, it's a cease and desist order if i remember correctly from the OP.

on top of that, your "amazing analogy" just doesn't make any sense (as is with most analogies people use). if you need to compare legal action to a bear in a campground for you argument to seem logical, then it was probably total shit to begin with
J.D.$
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Nov 2 2009
12:27:52
Quoting no_steezeUltimate Bling! from Nov 1 2009 11:56:38:
yes but the threat of a lawsuit can be tossed around much more casually than an actual lawsuit, so saying scott usa is actually suing on3p is not the truth
They can both be tossed around casually. Saying "we are suing you" and then settling when the person being sued does X is the same as saying "we will sue you if you don't do X". There is no practical difference, if Scott sues On3p it will have the same result, On3p won't defend and will simply comply because it can't afford to do anything else. Lawyers bill by the hour, whether they're writing a cease and desist letter or filing court documents.
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J.D.$
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Nov 2 2009
12:29:04
Quoting *Azz*$ from Nov 2 2009 12:12:43:
This...Too bad I just bought Scott poles today

That is stupid as shit btw...
Take this as a sign: return them and get joysticks. Support the industry, joystick is an awesome company.
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no_steezeUltimate Bling!
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Nov 2 2009
12:30:28
Quoting Jon63 from Nov 2 2009 12:26:01:
ok so I used the wrong terminology... big deal. they know what i meant, and i even referenced the name change later in the e-mail. you actually did the exact same thing right as you called me out for it. it's NOT a "simple name change request" either, it's a cease and desist order if i remember correctly from the OP.

on top of that, your "amazing analogy" just doesn't make any sense (as is with most analogies people use). if you need to compare legal action to a bear in a campground for you argument to seem logical, then it was probably total shit to begin with
i think you're missing the point of analogies
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OMG3P

RIP Shane, you will be missed

Jon63
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Nov 2 2009
12:32:49
Quoting no_steezeUltimate Bling! from Nov 2 2009 12:30:28:
i think you're missing the point of analogies
Points of Analogies:

1. Comedy
2. Making shitty arguments sound somewhat decent


I love #1, but am not too fond of #2, as you could probably tell.
Marshall.
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Nov 2 2009
12:33:14
Quoting J.D.$ from Nov 2 2009 12:29:04:
Take this as a sign: return them and get joysticks. Support the industry, joystick is an awesome company.
Do it.  There are quite a few sick companies that make poles.
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BroBomb
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Nov 2 2009
12:33:54
Just when I felt like I was running out of things to write about. The ski industry is finishing the year on a real greedy note.
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kittle.$
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Nov 2 2009
12:47:18
Quoting AElot from Nov 1 2009 11:26:13:
hey maybe i sound like a doo doo head,,but how do you pronounce ON3P? like ive been tryign to do it for a whole day and all ive got is "one P" and "on three P" like i just dont know haha
o-n-three-p, short for thirteenth and proctor

im surprised you didnt have onep in your list of options
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AndrewCinch
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Nov 2 2009
12:48:13
I swear if I hear about one more rediculously insensible david vs. Goliath ski industry case, my head will explode!!
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fsscott$
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Nov 2 2009
1:00:04
scotts fucking retarded for doing that

great scott is such an epic name for a ski
it's a lobster
(srsly)

Half-BloodUltimate Bling!
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Nov 2 2009
1:02:02
this lawsuit shit just keeps getting more and more ridiculous as the season gets closer.
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Nov 2 2009
1:02:40
email sent
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special_k10101
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Nov 2 2009
1:07:27
This is ridiculous, I hope whoever thought it would be a great idea to pick on ON3P with this sort of capitalistic might makes right attitude chokes on something in their next meal. Just today I was talking to my friend about how Scott products is pretty legit in my opinion. If anything, Scott USA is hanging itself with its threats. Although in the long run, the name of the ski itself is not going to make a significant difference, the guys at ON3P are working hard to make a name for themselves, and not try to copy anything in the existing industry as Scott is apparently alleging. This corporate bullying has got to stop. We're all on the same side here.
416
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Nov 2 2009
1:07:54
like I was going to buy Scott products anyway...
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sweetnesss
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Nov 2 2009
1:08:19
rename it 'copyright infringement'


special_k10101
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Nov 2 2009
1:10:20
Quoting special_k10101 from Nov 2 2009 1:07:27:
This is ridiculous, I hope whoever thought it would be a great idea to pick on ON3P with this sort of capitalistic might makes right attitude chokes on something in their next meal. Just today I was talking to my friend about how Scott products is pretty legit in my opinion. If anything, Scott USA is hanging itself with its threats. Although in the long run, the name of the ski itself is not going to make a significant difference, the guys at ON3P are working hard to make a name for themselves, and not try to copy anything in the existing industry as Scott is apparently alleging. This corporate bullying has got to stop. We're all on the same side here.
scott products are**
please excuse me.
GHSTRCN
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Nov 2 2009
1:14:06
Quoting 416 from Nov 2 2009 1:07:54:
like I was going to buy Scott products anyway...

This. haha

Who likes their stuff besides a few skis anyway? Goggles, boooo. Poles, easily replaced by others IMO. Skis, eh, some are/were aight.

Seriously, not a big loss for me not buying anything from them. I will support ON3p when I have the need for skis though. Followed their saga quietly from his setting up shop. Scott USA though, I owned a pair of $15 goggles once b/c I was a gaper about 10 years ago. Nothing since...

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shragler
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Nov 2 2009
1:14:34
shragler
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Nov 2 2009
1:18:37
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Dukeybrains
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Nov 2 2009
1:20:31
Quoting Jon63 from Nov 2 2009 12:32:49:
Points of Analogies:

1. Comedy
2. Making shitty arguments sound somewhat decent


I love #1, but am not too fond of #2, as you could probably tell.
Haha you suck
Dukeybrains
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Nov 2 2009
1:21:32
Quoting Dukeybrains from Nov 2 2009 1:20:31:
Haha you suck
analogies are supposed to make complicated things seem more simple so idiots like you can understand them.
SLO
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Nov 2 2009
1:25:09
Quoting *da_funk* from Nov 1 2009 10:04:50:
wow wtf? i hope this doesnt turn into a huge thing like level 1 and wme
exactly what i was thinking
Greenish
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Nov 2 2009
1:48:41
way to blow it Scott usa
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Thenowhereman42
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Nov 2 2009
1:57:09
Quoting willmiller from Nov 1 2009 10:51:39:
No, don't rename it. Scott should just pull their heads out of their asses.
willmiller
Will Miller
W. Miller
Warren Miller
Warren Miller Entertainment

...I think this guy might be a WME spy trying to direct all of our hate towards Scott and forget about the WME scandal.
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PETER=
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Nov 2 2009
2:03:14
Okay seriously? Big Tobacco doesn't sue each other this much. Every single skier should refuse to buy skis from any company that tries to sue another (specially smaller) ski company, and should demand (by not buying from) that any shop carrying the victimizers product immediately stop selling that product.

THIS IS AN OUTRAGE.

I hope EVERYONE realizes the severity of what is happening in skiing right now and buys neither Warren Miller nor SCOTT products. (Even though Tom Wallisch now skis for them.)

Lets make skiing something to be looked up to and that we can all be proud of.
psychkub
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Nov 2 2009
2:19:38
I was thinking of buying some scott poles this week.... not anymore!
RE: the insult "That's gayer than AIDS" Your insult would have made sense if it was said in the 80s or 90s, but now the incidence of AIDS is more prevalent in heterosexual individuals*... the correct way to try pwning someone with that statement now a days is to say "I'm sorry to those I offend, but that was officially more heterosexual than AIDS". Sorry you fail. *source http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/surveillance/basic.htm#lwa http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/surveillance/basic.htm#hivaidsexposur
prophet
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Nov 2 2009
2:21:20
from l1p's facebook link:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jamie-starr/cease-and-desist-david-go_b_333049.html

It would be an understatement to say that intellectual property (IP) -- legally defined property resulting from creative thought -- is an important element of our society as it currently exists. Theoretically, in the capitalistic framework, copyrights, trademarks, patents, and the like protect existing good ideas, incentivize additional good ideas, and result in higher caliber goods and services available to the citizenry, thus increasing the quality of life. But those virtues only exist when there is a balance between protecting and sharing, and I'm afraid the scales have tipped dangerously toward 'protecting,' at the expense of discouraging important co-innovators.

The protect/share debate is not a new one. For centuries, scholars have pondered the IP 'balancing' issue. Thomas Jefferson, in an 1813 correspondence with Isaac McPherson, clearly doubted the virtues of purely exclusive intellectual property:

"Stable ownership is the gift of social law, and is given late in the progress of society. It would be curious then, if an idea, the fugitive fermentation of an individual brain, could, of natural right, be claimed in exclusive and stable property. If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it. Its peculiar character, too, is that no one possesses the less, because every other possesses the whole of it. He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. That ideas should freely spread from one to another over the globe, for the moral and mutual instruction of man, and improvement of his condition, seems to have been peculiarly and benevolently designed by nature, when she made them, like fire, expansible over all space, without lessening their density in any point, and like the air in which we breathe, move, and have our physical being, incapable of confinement or exclusive appropriation. Inventions then cannot, in nature, be a subject of property."

So -- at least according to the Jeffersonian school of thought -- attempts by entities to strictly and exclusively guard their IP is at odds with nature. How are we (as a society, as a global community) to progress when all 'good' ideas are held in confidence?

Today, in the U.S., the concentration of power (read: economic leverage) continues to reside with a proportionate few, and the trend has become: powerful entity, defining its IP rights in the strictest possible manner, pursues weak(er) entity who poses no real threat to the former (and in many cases, is actually adding important value to the subject industry).

Two recent examples immediately come to mind:

(1) Small Denver based ski film company Level 1 Productions sued by big, conglomerate-owned Warren Miller Entertainment (WME) for trademark infringement for a voice cameo by Warren Miller himself in Level 1's recent filmRefresh. Warren Miller (the person) happily participated in Refresh, but allegedly ran afoul of various agreements between he and WME which date back the 1988 sale of his name and biz to a predecessor of WME. Refresh is a fan-favorite among ski films to be released this fall -- at least partly owing to it's creative (albeit limited) inclusion of Warren Miller's narration as a link between old and new school skiing. [I wrote about this dispute a few weeks ago in my column, and recent developments can be accessed here.]

(2) Morrisville, Vermont's Rock Art Brewery sent cease and desist letter from Hansen Beverage Co. (the owner of Monster Energy Drink) alleging trademark infringement for naming one of its craft beers "Vermonster." The parties quickly settled the dispute after a contingent of supporters -- using traditional and social media outlets as leverage -- put some real pressure on Hansen. Some stores in Vermont, New York, Maine and Connecticut even yanked Monster Energy Drink from their shelves to protest Hansen's agression. As part of the settlement, Rock Art Brewery agreed to stay out of the energy drink business -- a sort of laughable concession given that it had never intended to enter that sector of the beverage industry. U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., summed the whole ordeal up quite nicely I thought, stating: "Any person who would get confused by the two different products and names should probably slow down a bit, and lay off energy drinks ... The American people are getting tired of the greed and recklessness of large corporations, which use their size and power to push individuals and small businesses around." [link to AP article]

If, after reading the above two synopses, you're thinking that each situation is a little ridiculous, finicky, overbearing, an abuse of power, you're not alone. In each instance, after the initial alarm was sounded, hoards of supporters, armed with Twitter and Facebook, took to the interwebs to contribute to what amounts to a social veto of these corporate actions. In each case, the negative PR caused by the social media backlash at least made the aggressors question their aggressive legal actions. In the case of "Vermonster," it drove Hansen to an expeditious settlement whereby Rock Art Brewery didn't even have to concede anything meaningful.

The long term effects on a brand of these sorts of negative PR hiccups are difficult to measure, but it's clear they have cast these two brands in a negative light as far as consumers are concerned. I believe that these corporate follies, stacked on top of each other over time -- with the help of social media -- will lead to one of two outcomes: either (1) the brand is forced to act reasonably, or (2) the brand will be forced out of the market by a brand who is willing to act in-line with the people.

What's clear in all of this is that social media outlets are acting as a sort of gatekeeper -- a check on corporate actions that people in general view as unreasonable / excessive. These new conduits through which the public voice has found considerable traction is -- albeit subtly and gradually -- forcing the big actors in our economy to reconsider their elderly strategies.

The cooperative, 'sharing' paradigm does exist in this world, believe it or not, and it's proving to be a successful model for maximizing aggregate societal value. I was relatively unaware of how the model was being implemented internationally until I saw RiP! A Remix Manifesto, a brilliant documentary about the past, present, and future state of IP in the U.S. [you can stream it on Hulu]. In Brazil, when the government considered how to best fight HIV/AIDS, it determined that free, universal access to medicine was the way forward. To attain its goal, Brazil broke multiple U.S. IP laws and international patents so that it could produce the medicine at a lower cost. As the documentary points out, "The drug industry saw this as an act of war; Brazil saw this as an act of Life." Either way, more people have access to medicine in Brazil. That's a good thing, right?

The fourth and final prong of the 'Remixer's Manifesto' (See, RiP! A Remix Manifesto documentary) is that "to build free societies, you must limit the control of the past." Reading that made me think: social media is allowing people to be in the moment -- to interact, communicate, participate, and leverage their collective will in real time. The past doesn't really have a place in our new communication framework. And the best part is: this realignment is happening organically -- without the need for government intervention as a catalyst.

*________www.on3pskis.com ________*

* www.japhotog.com *

shragler
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Nov 2 2009
2:33:26
^^ great article! i like the last 3 paragraphs.It really does put the power in our hands, until they figure out how to exploit it of course. Is the writer a skier though?  otherwise surely there are other examples
prophet
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Nov 2 2009
3:07:18
two clicks. thats what it wouldve taken for you to figure out that he is. has no one had to use the internet as a research tool yet? its pretty good at it. and damn simple.
*________www.on3pskis.com ________*

* www.japhotog.com *

SmuggsyVT
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Nov 2 2009
3:38:15
"Hey Scott Skis,

Fuck you. I considered the P4's this year - not really too seriously though. Went with the ON3P Billy Goat's instead. From a guy just out there to ski, the courtroom seems damn distant. Lose the suits fools.

Matt Grant
Burlington, VT"

Let your voices be heard. Damn the man.
Steezasaurus.
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Nov 2 2009
8:19:40

Wrote an E-Mail to Scott USA...

You could rename it the "Corporate America" if all else fails

A S B co.

MRM

DedicatedPict...
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Nov 2 2009
8:50:39
Quoting theangrytomato from Nov 1 2009 10:08:55:
Does this mean that Scott can sue all this now? I mean, they used Scott in their name somewhere, and if Scott owns the word Scott, then they cant use it. Wait - shit, can they sue me now too?
I guess, sucks for Scott toiletpaper.

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jerad
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Nov 2 2009
9:01:13
It is now illegal to name a child Scott
JEBSET!
SkierX$
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Nov 2 2009
9:12:41
On3P should go with the rename in honor of Wil (V) but either way, even if Scott pulled a 180, they submarined their chances at me buying their products.

I will continue USING the Scott poles I currently own, but they will not get another dime from me.

I was likely going to buy a pair of Scott gloves too. Not anymore though.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-Steve Clark
~~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~~
~572nd Member of Newschoolers.com

'if you were doing one of them doggystyle and she flexed her butt cheeks, your dick would get ripped off.'
~Alpentalik on the subject of Serena Williams

"Eco suck my dick is what i call it, when i have to globally warm my hands in my asshole i'm not a fan of that green shit at all"
~Bangor
Powdered_Donuts
Karma : 61474
1711 Posts
Insane
icon
Nov 2 2009
9:23:32
Shit here we go again. The fact that both companies are selling the same product makes this a semi valid arguement, however using your name as a mark as far as I know is legit, and on3ps have their logo and brand on the ski, I don't think scott will win this one and if they do its definetly going to piss off a lot of people, I wonder what stance wallisch will take on this lol
" I encourage everyone to follow their dreams, and remember to ski because it's fun." - Josh Bryant

"Thus, be careful when attributing a phrase to a certain website - chances are, you've got gonorrhea. " -Rowen

http://www.twitter.com/powdered_donuts
http://www.thesixtyone.com/powdereddonuts/

jsmith018
Karma : 506
663 Posts
Ridiculous
icon
Nov 2 2009
9:37:11
I hate lawsuits.
willmiller
Karma : 151
158 Posts
Pro
icon
Nov 2 2009
9:38:13
Quoting Thenowhereman42 from Nov 2 2009 1:57:09:
willmiller
Will Miller
W. Miller
Warren Miller
Warren Miller Entertainment

...I think this guy might be a WME spy trying to direct all of our hate towards Scott and forget about the WME scandal.
Damn conspiracy theorist. And yes, WME totally hired me as a spy.
PASKIINGSUCKSUltimate Bling!
Karma : 18776
3168 Posts
Addict
icon
Nov 2 2009
9:39:42
Nasty email sent. Keep your head up Scott, hopefully this storm will just blow over.
RIP CJT 3/20/74-06/27/01 Never hold back your feelings cause you may never talk to that person again.
RIP MPT 6/2/79-5/22/08 I will forever ski with you by my side.
willmiller
Karma : 151
158 Posts
Pro
icon
Nov 2 2009
10:01:21
The referenced post has been removed.
Are you serious??
bootleg_BEN
Karma : 8440
1433 Posts
Insane
icon
Nov 2 2009
10:01:29
The referenced post has been removed.
huh?
Wallisch doesn't afterbang, Afterbang does the wallisch -Prophetmatt

Previously czarskeeze7

GHSTRCN
Karma : 3038
405 Posts
Ridiculous
icon
Nov 2 2009
10:04:06
The referenced post has been removed.

Oh, Scott USA Inc. Whatever.

http://scottusa.com/us_en/company/legal

Alpental - "Chair two on a saturday pow day is like being stuck in a traffic jam in Shanghai."
-Iggyskier

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