Religion. Your thoughts...

My opinion: I agree with you. All things being equal the simpliest answer is usually the right one. A mysterious being that created heaven and earth and gives no proof of his existance? Sure doesnt seem like the simpliest answer to me. However, when people look to 'god' as a source of hope, sharing, caring, good deeds, there is nothing wrong with it. It becomes a problem when people create 'beliefs'. People are willing to fight for beliefs whether they are right or wrong.

lol, that's why you put your 'faith' in god.

i agree to the creator of the thread.

Haven't said it much better

It still doesn't explain how life itself was created.

my toughts: Join the heatens cult!

Because we did

“The universe could and should have been completely and utterly random, yet there is order, and it is beautiful.”
-Michio Kaku

“The hardest thing to understand is why we can understand anything at all.”
-Albert Einstein

My intention was never to try to disprove people’s belief in a higher power. I believe that there is a “god” like consciousness present in the universe and it is what gives it order. The problems I have are with organized religion and religious factions trying to control society by feeding people fictionalized accounts and reinforcing archaic ceremonies.

“All things being equal the simplest answer is usually the right one. A mysterious being that created heaven and earth and gives no proof of his existence?”
-AOE NS

I’m pretty sure this quote was in the movie Contact but I think that it is perfectly logical. Although the response to this question was; “Did you love your father?” “Prove it.” I think if there is a supreme being (I hate the word being because it implies that god is human in some why) Its influence is found in every atom and every molecule. Things work in the universe they didn’t have to. I guess I don’t believe in a being at all but a master code by which every piece of matter must follow. The universe is predictable, atoms and particles follow predetermined paths and reactions, nothing is truly random.

Faith is a dangerous emotion. Millions of Nazis had “faith” that Hitler was sent from god and “faith” that extermination of the Jews would create a utopia on earth. Truthfully faith and logic seam to rarely coincide. Go ahead have faith believe in whatever you will and do as you want but don’t use faith as a reason to be ignorant.

“Because your 7th grade science teacher said so?”
-Steve NS

Sure my 7th grade teacher probably talked briefly about the big bang theory and why shouldn’t she? What is organized religion based on? First and foremost most religions are based on order and control. Do onto others and they will do onto you. Sure sounds good on paper but then they start including all these outrageous clauses and laws. Religions were created to lessen the loneliness of humans, explain what science couldn’t at the time, and create a ruling class. Most of the information in the bible can be scientifically and historically disproved. However a theory like the big bang. (Noticed I used theory as in not categorically proven). Has its roots in real physical science. It is possible to track the spread of galaxies from a center point and see why things are moving in the heavens as they are. Don’t try to patronize science by using the quote “Because your 7th grade science teacher said so?” If you believe in religion I could say. Because some dude 1500 hundred years ago wrote a book a guy who lived 2000 years ago that might or might not have even existed?

Actually, they've been able to create life out of the elements and compounds and under the environmental conditions that were present millions of years ago when life began. I think the more interesting question is where did matter come from in the first place?

No scientific lab has ever created life however they have been able to recreate the primordial sea from which all life is to believed to have spawned but never life there is an element missing.

i believe in god, because i think there is something greater than we, but i dont believe the whole religion thing at all. i think the buddhists are closest to the truth. i believe that when you die, you reborn as someone else and i believe in ''karma''. i believe that if you do bad, something bad happens to you, so thats why i rarely even skip school, because i know that after that everything gets shitty.

One of the biggest reasons life is here today, is because Planet earth is the perfect distance from the sun.

Religion will be the downfall of our world.

I dont know about reincarnation, it seams kind of stupid.

If you are reincarniated as someone else then you loose all your memory and become someone else. So what makes you your previous self. I just like your soul is reformated and put into a blank body. Donsent make sense like the rest of the universe.

here is the deal: i am glad you clarified that you believe in a higher power.
because your explanation for how the universe was created does not explain where that source of energy came from.

the biggest thing i have struggled with is explaining reality.
explaining existence.
what was there before the big bang?
what was there before that?

i think i have a big need for God right now in that i cannot explain why anything exists, why anything in the universe exists unless it was all created.

i dunno.
the fact of the matter is that which started the big bang must have come from somewhere... so if you can believe gases existed for all eternity i dunno why a higher power/creator seems so outlandish.

as to religion... i dont think it is inherently wrong... like governments i believe that religion is only dangerous when one man has too much power.
i think that alot of christianity is pretty chill right now in terms of how dangerous they are. sure we meddle in national affairs (abortion, gay marriage) but as a group i dont see us posing a threat against society.

there will be problems with christianity, there are always issues that the church screws up on... we are merely human.
the fact of that matter is these things get cleared up pretty quickly compared to other religions like islam.

i guess my point is that religion should not be a powerful force liek the catholic church... it should just be the belief and teachings.

Why does there need to be an explanation for how the universe became? It's just there. No one "created" it.

its been here forever?
see, its not a big stretch for me jump to the belief that a higher power has existed in the same way

Read steven hawkings "A brief history of time" There is no forever.

Why would a higher power create Dinosaurs before humans then?

Ok. I think that a lot of people are missing the point. A higher power didnt create or plan anything. A higher power refers to the arachtecture of the universe. I am going out right now to kill some brain cells but when I get back I will write something detailed that highlights my belifs.

uhhh, how the fuck do you know? 

listen, its cool if you guys have your own thoughts on how it all began.  just do everyone a favor and don't tell someone that they're wrong in what they believe.  because nobody knows, and nobody can pretend to know - not even scientists who have their own THEORIES as to how it all began.

and i agree that there are some problems with alot of religions, and the world would be alot less messed up if some people didn't take their religions so seriously.  but the people who are saying, "religion will end the world" and "how can you believe in god"  need to shut up, because they're no different from the people who blow up cafe's because some people didn't believe the same thing that they do.

pretty easily actually.

telling someone to shut up is not debate its stupidity.

God as humans have described for centuries is simply the reason for the unexplained. Once science came into the picture many religions were outright dismantled.

I think the thing that I have the most trouble with is comprehending the universe and matter. I really love that Einstein quote “The hardest thing to understand is why we can understand anything at all.” I believe that human reality is so minuscule that its really not even reality. Look at it this way, what you can touch smell see and hear is less that one millionth of reality. We can only see a very brief section of “visible” light hear only a fraction of audible noises and touch what is about 3 feet from our bodies. Our machines have revealed a world never thought possible from charred electro magnetic spectrographs to electron microscopes the world is much bigger and smaller than any human 30 years ago could have imagined. Science is opening up a whole new world of discovery that eventually will take the place of religion as fact and no longer will humans be lost in the dark.

I also believe that there are several planes of existence and dimensions. We by convention can only operate in one plane and cannot travel between planes. However time transcends plane. Time is not a linear variable in the universe as it is on earth. Time wanders changing course changing speed. In a black hole for example if you follow the theory of relativity time is infinite and non-existent because you must divide by infinity and 0. So when people say what was before the universe and what is after the space the answer is everything and nothing. This is impossible for the human brain to comprehend because we operate only in one dimension. Kaku believes that there are 11 dimensions all interlaced and separate. He also believes that one can travel through dimensions via a wormhole or perhaps by death.

“and i agree that there are some problems with alot of religions, and the world would be alot less messed up if some people didn't take their religions so seriously. but the people who are saying, "religion will end the world" and "how can you believe in god" need to shut up, because they're no different from the people who blow up cafe's because some people didn't believe the same thing that they do.”
Weenox

No one in this thread has yet to say don’t believe in god. In fact if you don’t want to put in the time and form your own opinion on the universe go ahead follow the bible follow the Koran whatever you want.

Don’t ever compare science to suicide bombers you ignorant bastard how is this even closely related in the loosest sense of the word. I never asked for violence or demeaned religion. Everyone talks about the Muslims being the one who kill others for their beliefs how about the crusades the inquisition the fucking pilgrims. All that this type of religion does is create a drift between nations and people. Oh by the way nations are a pretty new idea. Only about 200 years old before this time a king or ruler had very little control on his nation. Power came from local magistrates and nobles. We need to unite as a planet and leave this trivial race religion bull shit at the door. We are about to become a world society and people like Bush and Osama are standing in the way.
Another thing, religion is ending the world look at 911, Iran, Conservative Christian in the US, Muslim extremist. There is a void between people and the world is having a hard time filling it. Humans are so close to becoming a coherent planetary society we just have to take the next steep.

Most of everything I said above is opinion feel free to disagree agree but please offer an opinion and don’t rip on anyone and try to back up with your feelings with valid opinions.

i follow the church of Ivo. Best church ever, because i'm all that matters in it, and i create the rules. it kicks ass, instead of going to church every sunday, you have to drink at least one beer a day, the more you drink the holyer you are, when you die, you go the whistler for a week, before going into a never ending sleep. and your just cool, like me.

best way to control a human is fear install fear on them through something like getting sent to hell and have what makes you not go to hell.... ok fuck this i'm not ranting basically bible was the way people figured a way to install laws and punishments

i NEVER fuckin compared science to suicide bombing, dumbass.   i said that the people telling me what i should believe (for example, the people that tell me i'm an idiot for believing in god) are no different from the radical islamic terrorists who kill people for not being of the same religion as them.

you don't understand.  i completely trust science, i believe it, i think they're allowed to develop their own theories.  i just think there is a certain point that science cannot go past - it's like asking the question "what came before" an infinite number of times.   and trust me, i've put plenty of thought into my existence and the existence of the universe.  i'm taking an astronomy class right now which is all about the origins of the universe, etc.  so GOOD JOB at assuming that because i chose religion, i haven't looked into science enough.  you're another great example of people who like to pretend they know about christianity.  do us all a favor, and don't fuckin talk about things that you don't understand.

sure, go ahead and whip out the CRUSADES card.  yes, religion has caused alot of the problems between nations and has killed people.  yes, i feel bad about the crusades.  yes, the crusades are comparable to terrorism.  first of all,  the crusades happened during a messed up time when the church was more concerned with gaining power than helping people.  the church used the crusades mainly as an excuse to spread it's influence, not its religion.  second of all, i already admitted that religion can cause problems.  but i don't think that general religion is going to end the world.  i think that people who take their religion too far and have skewed visions of even their own religion are going to ruin the world

i'm catholic and i agree with science.  maybe not all aspects of it, but neither do the scientists because scientists know that the universe and time and space are all waaayyy too complicated for us to even begin to understand.  go read steven hawking's book.   then maybe you'll understand what you're talking about a little bit more.

did you read what I wrote?

trust me, i read what you wrote.  and i wrote my opinion....

I never suggest that you are an idiot in any way or that christianity in inherently evil I mearly suggested that the human race is becoming a society that no longer need religion as an explanation for the world.

There is no stopping point for science if you let it. there is an explaniation for everything and anything.

How can you assume I dont know about Christians I know a lot about religion.

I didnt wip out any card I was mearly pointing out the voids that religion can cause. Whats to say that right now will not be viewed as a messed up time by history, that a little arrogant to assume that right now is a perfect time.

I agree with you 100% that fundamentalist are the reason for a lot of problems in the world and they are pretty much the reason for my dislike of orginized religion. I just dont like how there has to be a seperation of people by religion.

I did read two of hawking's books "A Breif History of Time" and the "Universe in a nutshell" I must say that they are a little over my head and I only understand the basics but I have read them. another good book is "Hyperspace" by Michio Kaku. Have you read any Hawkings? I dont mean this to be an ass hole I just like talking to people that have read any of his stuff. I find Kaku to be a lot easier to read he is really good at providing analogies.

If there is one thing I hate it is being patronized. I try not to do it to you pleas have the same courtesy.

Religion on a general consensus is good. Religion that controls your life is bad. Religion is meant to be a guide, not a path. Religion only becomes bad when you will sacrifice morals in the name of a god or superior being. Once it reaches the point of fantaicism, it's very bad.

i agree with thread creater. just be nice to everyone, dont be judge others, and try to have a positive impact when ever u can

sorry i was patronizing.

i disagree with these two statements.  there has to be a stopping point for science, in my opinion, because i don't believe that before the universe was created there was just a massive black void where random energy came from nowhere and caused a massive explosion that created everything in the universe, and everything just worked itself out so incredibly perfect that life can exist.  call me crazy, but i don't believe that.  i think there was something else, and thats why i think that science can only go so far, and it's also part of the reason i'm religious.

when i said you don't know anything about christianity, i meant that you have no experience with it.  im sure there are a ton of people that understand the basic principles of catholicism but don't really understand what a catholic believes or how they developed their own opinions and how they became religious.  i, for one, believe that science and religion can exist together because I believe that my religion gives me strength and supports my ability to develop my own opinions, which can be brought upon me by science.  it's a common misconception that catholics are forced to believe things.

"Whats to say that right now will not be viewed as a messed up time by history, that a little arrogant to assume that right now is a perfect time."

you know i can't realy argue with that one, but i can only assume that christianity is a hell of alot closer to being perfect now than it was before (namely during the crusades).  i wasn't trying to claim that my religion is perfect.

i agree with the thread poster 100%

Thanks a lot with for that reply and I also agree with you on most topics. I think in the next century there will be a marrage between science and religion. Its already happening. The Big bang theory is a good starting point. Where did that energy come from? I think the world needs a lot more people with views simmilar to yours

religion won't be the downfall of the world, people will.

this is an internet forum. it is absolutley pointless arguing with each other over things like religion. we can argue all we want, no one is ever going to win. no one is going to make the other say, "you knowwhat? your right. im going to change all of my beleifs because of something you said on the internet."

its not the destination its the journey

Maby someone will say something profound and cause me to start looking at myslef and perhaps even ammend my beliefs. The point is not to declare a winner or a loser its to publically discuss the issue so that greater understand can be accomplished.

This is how I see it: Humans created God that created humans. God tries to keep control and order by bringing fear on its believers so that they will never question the supreme.

Like Humans created God, we can substitute the word God with Humans. God is now only for the clergy to blame all our problems on something else while keeping the control of others.

So, darkfranchise is right...Dont be robots, be...human!

i guess your right man. i never thought of it that way. oh and by the way, i beleive in God. im catholic and pretty involved in my religion. so im just gunna stick to my beleifs and am not going to change them no matter what someone says on the internet.

just thought id let you know

oof, i see some heated arguments in this thread's future.
i'm a christian, not a crazy hardcore psycho, but i go to church fairly regularly and i pray and i believe in and have faith in Jesus Christ and God. i believe in science and all the theories and such, but i believe that they were caused by God. that's my opinion, if you quote me and say i'm an idiot, you're an ignorant d-bag.

thats pretty much how i am so im glad someone agrees

awesome i'm glad someone agrees too! alot of people have told me i'm retarded for that belief.

Well I am going to bed keep this tread alive I think there are some good points left to be made.

good night

you are expressing the fundamental beliefs of a deist, of the religion deism (i believe)

desim is the belief that a supernatural being created the universe and then left for some unknown reason.

someone wanna dictionary.com the exact description, that'd be super

on the topic I am strickly agnostic.

and it has already started!

Serious, how weak are you if you need a religion to control your life? make your own choices!!!